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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rammy Jack on Wednesday 04 January 12 11:16 GMT (UK)
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I'm researching my ancestors in Garston Liverpool and according to a newspaper cutting from September 1881 I find that my great great grandfather (Allan Prophet) was buried in a family grave in St Michaels churchyard in Garston. He was born about 1796.
There is an email contact for the church, but I can't get a response. Obviously being a family grave it suggests there are more of my ancestors buried in the plot, which I would be delighted to find out about.
Can anyone advise me please.
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Sorry, I can`t help with the grave plots, but the following are the Prophets buried at St. Michael Garston. The dates are the burial dates.
St Michael Garston
Allen Prophet, King Street, Garston, 6th September, 1881 aged 85
Elizabeth Prophet, King Street, Garston, 15th December, 1878 aged 45
James Prophet, 62 King Street, Garston, 21st August, 1900 aged 66
Mary Jane Prophet, King Street, Garston, 4th July, 1897 aged 62
Jane Prophet, King Street, 2nd May, 1886 aged 28
Harriet Keef Prophet, 54 York Street, Garston, 5th February, 1874 aged 4 months
John Prophet, 15th August, 1955 aged 79
John William Prophet, 72 Byron Street, Garston, 14th December, 1892 aged 6 months
Harriet Prophet, 19 Ultonia Street, 21st April, 1968 aged 65
John Prophet, 68 Saunby Street, Garston, 14th November, 1906 aged 22 months
William Prophet, 70 Shakespeare Street, Garston, 22nd September, 1906 aged 1 month
Mo
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Wow - thanks Mo - you've got half of my ancestors at one fell swoop I'm well impressed and very thankful.
Dare I ask how you managed to get the info - I've been trying to track this down for ages without success.
Thanks again .......... big smile.
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Hi Berry,
They are available online via Ancestry and also family search have them indexed without the addresses and ages. https://www.familysearch.org/
Regards,
Mo
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Hiya....St Michaels is my family church and I live in Garston ..my family have been here since 1870......very windy today...I am retired and will have a look for you when the weather improves...it will give me something to do ....tomorrow is market day and the market is at the back of the church so weather permitting,I will see what I can come up with ...PM me a mobile number and I will send you a photo of any Prophet gravestones ..
;)....allan
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Allen Keef Prophet christened 5th sep 1869 - father John Prophet / mother Mary Jane is the earliest Prophet record I can find in Garston...do you have any earlier ?....allan
ADDED...John Prophet married Mary Jane Franklin in june qtr 1869 at st michaels, Garston ( this came under Wavertree register office )
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk so...I would think that Mary Jane Franklin was living in Garston ....census states she was born in Liverpool 1849...let me see if I can find her ....she should be in Garston in 1861 census with a little luck
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The 1871 census shows Allen bn in Northwich Cheshire living with his son James aged 40 also born Northwich. maes's wife Elizabeth was born in Warrington. james is a licenced victualler. Allen is listed as lab.
The 1841 has Allen in Leftwich (next to Northwich) Cheshire. He is a shoemaker aged 40 with wife Jane 35 and Ann 15, James 10 and Allen 5. All born in Cheshire
By 1851 only Allen aged 49 and Jane aged 48 in the family home leftwich. Allen a waterman.
1861 Allen a lodger with William and Elizabeth Bolton in Toxteth park. Elizabethwas born Northwich so may be relalated. Allen widowed and a labourer.
Gibel
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It's all building up very well. My great grandfather was the licenced victuallerat the Victoria for quite a few years. I'll try and absorb all this good information and thanks very much.
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Thanks Gibel....that`s a great help....somehow I had a feeling that they had come around the year of 1869 ..and Mary Franklin was the Garston family
Berry....your great grandfather must have been an extremely hard man ..to run the Vic 130 years ago...it was (and still is ) a dockside town..the last dock on the south of the Liverpool docks...a rough / tough area - sailors everywhere - it took a certain type of man to run a pub in an area like that......allan
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According to www.familysearch.org allen was baptised on 15 april 1798 at Witton Parish Church parents Robert and Elizabeth prophet. You can see the actual image on www.findmypast.co.uk you'll have to buy credits.
Allen married Jane Johnson at Great Budworth on 20 May 1821. This also on Family search. Actual image on find my past. On familsearch you will also find the marriage of Robert to Elizabeth Holford at Davenham in 1785. Again images may be on FindMyPast.
Gibel
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Hiya Gibel...whilst looking for the christening of the g grandmother Ann Jane Prophet - I found in 1861 census
John Prophet aged 14 born Garston ,Lancashire - b 1847 ...so Prophet family were here in Garston in 1847.....20 years before I expected
allan
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Hiya....after photographing the 2 headstones yesterday I went for a pint....I was told that The Victoria has been bought and is being transformed into a house ....evidently the owner is a nice man, so I am going to see him and ask him to look out for any artifacts to do with the Prophet family...hopefully the pub will have a huge attic and if we`re lucky , something might be found up there....fingers crossed.
allan ;)
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Hi Allan
Many thanks again for the photos - I probably spent 5 hours yesterday trying to get my head around the information that I have gleaned and link it into that which I already have. I'm still a long way off.
There are names on the headstone that must come down from Allen Prophets father ( my GGG grandfather) side that I wasn't aware of.
Certainly good news that the Victoria isn't to be demolished and I have a picture with my G Grandfather in the doorway. (from about 1885 I think).
Most of the Census show it as 1 Sinclair Street rather than King Street.
Thanks again for your efforts
Jack
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Hiya Jack....a door in King St and a door in Sinclair St, but the door in Sinclair St also had the stairs that led to the private accomodation upstairs ,which I presume would be the Lanlords address....so I would think logically that Sinclair Street was the official address....allan
ps...did you notice on my previous thread I found John Prophet b Garston 1847 in the 1861 census...was he one of Allans children ?....btw on most records he is given as Allan , not Allen ....same as my spelling ...it`s Welsh for Harmony - and also way out ...makes you wonder ...lol
allan ???
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Hi Allan
Yes Allen or Allan - he seemed to change his name for every census.
I'm struggling a bit with John Prophet born 1876 died 1955 aged 79. The latest census in 1911 shows him with 3 children but the record says 5 children of which 4 are still living. On the message Mo posted, he quotes an infant death that would fit ie John Prophet age 22 months in 1906. I wonder where the missing child may be.
I can't find any trace of the Mary Ann that you quoted in 1881 in either births or deaths. ie Ann Jane's possible twin that died early.
Jack
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www.familysearch.org
mary prophet
birth
garston,lancashire
1880 to 1882
search
Mary Ann Phrophet comes up as a result and St Michaels is the church given
allan :)
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I can't see John Prophet born 1847 in the 1861 census but I can see a Robert born 1847 in Gartson with his parents James and Elizabeth in Gartson. So Robert is Allen's grandson.
It looks as if James (Allen's son) may have arrived first. His occupation is given as salt boiler in 1861. I'm struggling to find them in 1851. Allen, allen's son is also in garston in 1861 with his wife Jane.
Gibel
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Found them in 1851 as PROFFIT at the salt works Garston
James Proffit 21 salt boiler bn Northwich
Elizabeth his wife 19 bn Warrington
Robert son 5 bn Garston
Elizabeth son 3 bn Garston
Alen brother 15 bn Northwich
James and Alen are sons of Allen born 179something in Northwich
Gibel
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Good find Gibel - I'd missed that too. Thanks . I thought the system would link Prophet and Proffitt together - obviously not.
Allen - I've delved into the familysearch.org site for the 1st time today - it's quite good - thanks for that link.
I'll need a secretary, I'm discovering so much new stuff, and I thought I was at the end of the line for Prophet
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I can't see John Prophet born 1847 in the 1861 census but I can see a Robert born 1847 in Gartson with his parents James and Elizabeth in Gartson. So Robert is Allen's grandson.
It looks as if James (Allen's son) may have arrived first. His occupation is given as salt boiler in 1861. I'm struggling to find them in 1851. Allen, allen's son is also in garston in 1861 with his wife Jane.
Gibel
Sincere apologies to you both...on page 2 it states
John Prophet 1871
Robert Prophet b 1847
Elizabeth Prophet b 1848 ....I put John instead of Robert....that many swimming around in my head
allan :)
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Hi, Ramy Jack
Just come across a John Prophet bapt at St. Michael's 22 Feb 1878 to John and Mary Prophet of 54 York Street. Father John listed as dock labourer. Entry 752, p. 94 in parish register of baptisms.
Best
Jhn
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Thanks John
Thats a piece of info that I didn't have.
They later moved to Otway Street in Garston (in the 1901 census)
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Thats where my mums family lived - Otway St...do you know what number by any chance ?...many fond memories in 1950`s of Otway St ...my g grandmother lived to be 96 in that house ...
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Hi Allan
Good to hear from you again.
It was number 61.
Incidentally the guy who did up the Victoria Hotel in King Street has put pictures of the renovation on the Yo Liverpool website. He's kept loads of the old features. I replied to his post but it doesn't look like he's accessed the site for some time now.
All the best
Jack
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Hiya Jack - ours was No 64 - so over the road from each other ....obviously neighbours in early 1900`s ...
allan
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Hi
I'm researching Hornbys from Garston - both born and buried there. Ancestry records show St Michael's as being their parish. I was wondering if there are records or a plan of the graveyard which shows where people are buried.
Any help would be very helpful.
Ley
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I know of no plan of where folks were buried, although there are burial registers. I would try writing to the vicar of St Michael's, if there still is one.
Best
John
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Hi
I'm researching Hornbys from Garston - both born and buried there. Ancestry records show St Michael's as being their parish. I was wondering if there are records or a plan of the graveyard which shows where people are buried.
Any help would be very helpful.
Ley
Hiya Ley and welcome to Rootschat - weathers lovely here at the moment - I will take the dog for a walk to the churchyard tomorrow morning and have a look for you .....I know 2 Hornby families here in Garston
cheers
Garstonite :)
ADDED
This looks to be the earliest Hornby I can find in Garston - born 1782 - died 1824 ..aged 42 ..is she in your tree ??
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPR7-D45
Garston Archives
In 1854, should you wish to get to the Mersey shoreline by Grassendale from the centre of Garston, you would have been directed along Chapel Lane past Thomas Sichrell's public house and Richard Archer's mill up to the bridge over Garston Brook. You then had the choice of taking the Garston new road, which later became St Mary's Road, past Robert and Joseph Helsby's joiner shop, Andrew Walker's blacksmith shop, the police station and three houses. There was nothing else until you reached Matthew Atkins' Garston Hotel.
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so Robert and Joseph Helsby were in business there as Joiners in 1854.....
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Thank you so much. I look forward to having a look later. Bit difficult from here in Australia. Meanwhile I will have a look at the link you sent through
Ley :)
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You're welcome .
I am a pensioner and Jack Hornby and Billy Hornby were very good friends of mine - sadly both deceased now - are they in any way related to you ?
Jacks wife was Alice .
I will have a look this morning in the churchyard but it would be easier if I was looking for a specific name - I estimate there are about 350 graves - so could be around 1200 - 1500 bodies in the church graveyard ...it usually takes about an hour to get around them all ..
:)
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You're welcome .
I am a pensioner and Jack Hornby and Billy Hornby were very good friends of mine - sadly both deceased now - are they in any way related to you ?
Jacks wife was Alice .
I will have a look this morning in the churchyard but it would be easier if I was looking for a specific name - I estimate there are about 350 graves - so could be around 1200 - 1500 bodies in the church graveyard ...it usually takes about an hour to get around them all ..
:)
Sorry but not sure how to reply properly!!!
Relatives are:
Margaret Hornby (nee Ellis) 1815-1867
Husband Henry 1809 -1882
We could begin with these as I know for sure they're buried there.
Ley
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OK Great - Market day tomorrow so I will go about 10 am after the Market - but - Margaret Ellis ??
don't get your hopes up ...lol...my grandmother was Martha Ellis - and I go back with the Ellis family to 1799 - Edward Ellis - he married Mary Tipping ...their children
Ann 1835
Joanna 1838
Ann 1842
Mary 1844
William 1847
Elizabeth 1850
Alice 1853
Joseph T 1857
.Annie 1860 .....................................so I am now wondering if Margaret Ellis b 1815 is a sister of my Edward Ellis b 1799...my Edward Ellis was born in Wales (pretty certain it was Flint )...
the Welsh came to Garston early 1800's to work in the Copper Works - the Welsh already having knowledge of working Copper ...
Edward Ellis was my GG Grandfather - do you know if your Margaret Ellis was Welsh ??...to my knowledge Edward Ellis was the first Ellis in Garston - so he may have come there with his family around 1810-1820 ....
so there may be a chance we have a blood connection via the Ellis family - EVERY Ellis I know in Garston is connected to Edward - I know he had brothers named Thomas Ellis and Samuel Ellis here in Garston :) :)
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OK Great - Market day tomorrow so I will go about 10 am after the Market - but - Margaret Ellis ??
don't get your hopes up ...lol...my grandmother was Martha Ellis - and I go back with the Ellis family to 1799 - Edward Ellis - he married Mary Tipping ...their children
Ann 1835
Joanna 1838
Ann 1842
Mary 1844
William 1847
Elizabeth 1850
Alice 1853
Joseph T 1857
.Annie 1860 .....................................so I am now wondering if Margaret Ellis b 1815 is a sister of my Edward Ellis b 1799...my Edward Ellis was born in Wales (pretty certain it was Flint )...
the Welsh came to Garston early 1800's to work in the Copper Works - the Welsh already having knowledge of working Copper ...
Edward Ellis was my GG Grandfather - do you know if your Margaret Ellis was Welsh ??...to my knowledge Edward Ellis was the first Ellis in Garston - so he may have come there with his family around 1810-1820 ....
so there may be a chance we have a blood connection via the Ellis family - EVERY Ellis I know in Garston is connected to Edward - I know he had brothers named Thomas Ellis and Samuel Ellis here in Garston :) :)
Mold Flintshire it is! Wow. Not getting my hopes up though.
I'm actually booked to come over in September - staying in Liverpool late September. Can't wait to travel around - will definitely be visiting Garston
Ley
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Yes - Mold - here is my Edward - says b 1803 - but another census says b 1799 ...in 1861 census he is 62 and 1871 census 68 ...so a little fib somewhere
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZPC-P8B
note he was 59 when his youngest Joseph was born ...he died in 1874 ...
so it is looking increasingly likely we have a blood connection back to Edward and Margarets parents - if only I could find them for definite...
so -I am off to Jersey on 30th sept for a little holiday will you be here before that ?
:)
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Hi
I'm researching Hornbys from Garston - both born and buried there. Ancestry records show St Michael's as being their parish. I was wondering if there are records or a plan of the graveyard which shows where people are buried.
Any help would be very helpful.
Ley
Hiya Ley and welcome to Rootschat - weathers lovely here at the moment - I will take the dog for a walk to the churchyard tomorrow morning and have a look for you .....I know 2 Hornby families here in Garston
cheers
Garstonite :)
ADDED
This looks to be the earliest Hornby I can find in Garston - born 1782 - died 1824 ..aged 42 ..is she in your tree ??
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPR7-D45
Garston Archives
In 1854, should you wish to get to the Mersey shoreline by Grassendale from the centre of Garston, you would have been directed along Chapel Lane past Thomas Sichrell's public house and Richard Archer's mill up to the bridge over Garston Brook. You then had the choice of taking the Garston new road, which later became St Mary's Road, past Robert and Joseph Helsby's joiner shop, Andrew Walker's blacksmith shop, the police station and three houses. There was nothing else until you reached Matthew Atkins' Garston Hotel.
........................
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Sadly - I couldn't find any Hornby Headstones - maybe you will have more luck when you visit ...I only looked at the names on the top of the headstones ....maybe there are Hornby mentioned lower down on the headstones - I looked for 45 mins - to read every headstone from top to bottom would take 90 mins- 2 hrs...
:)
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I have been doing some research into my family history based around Robert Prophet, my great grandfather, and his time in St Helens as a landlord of the Ring O'Bells in that town. His father was James Prophet, and the discussion going on on this website have filled in many missing bits of the jigsaw.
It seems that James came to Garston as a young man with his wife, Elizabeth. They were both very young, and if Robert was born in Garston, then James and Elizabeth were, respectively, 16 and 14! They also had a daughter who was two years younger than Robert.
I'm very interested in anything and everything you have on Robert and James Prophet, and back to Allen Prophet of Northwich (Leftwich). My wife and I looked around the graveyard in St Michael's Garston for the Prophets, but failed to find anything. Are the gravestones still there? If not howl does one find the confirmation of their being buried there?
I was also very pleased to see the references to the Victoria Hotel, which is still standing. I'm yet to get my head around the date James started there. Did they live there from the start? James is regeistered as a Saltboiler - a job that links him strongly with Northwich and the salt works there.
I would be grateful for any further information, and to share what I have.
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Hiya HuwAlun and a warm welcome to Rootschat
Robert WAS born in Garston in 1847
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7YR-2TF
I will have a look around the churchyard for you - re the Saltworks - Garston had a huge Saltworks so coming from Northwich to Garston is no surprise.
Allen Keif Prophet was born 1869 and buried 15th June 1871
Harriet Keef Prophet was born 1874 and was buried 5th feb 1874
Elizabeth Prophet was born 1833 and was buried 15th dec 1878
James Prophet was born 1879 and buried 11th dec 1879
Allen Prophet was born 1796 and buried 6th sept 1881
Jane Prophet was born 1858 and buried 2nd May 1886
the list goes on - have a look here
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&englishSubcountryName=Lancashire&query=%2Bsurname%3Aprophet~%20%2Bany_place%3Agarston~%20%2Brecord_country%3AEngland%20%2Brecord_subcountry%3A%22England%2CLancashire%22
you will notice James Prophet married Jane HAZELHURST - 1879
The Hazelhurst family are still here in Garston ....
I will ask the locals about the Prophet family - I know of a Victoria Prophet in her 50's - but I don't know if she was born a Prophet ....I will find out in the pub....
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Wow! Thank you so much for this. I would really like to know when James took over the Victora Hotel. I know that the census of 1851 and 1861 show him as a salt boiler in the Saltworks (and I assume that there must have been living quarters in the Saltworks - do you know anything about these?). The Saltworks closed in 1865 I believe, so I assume James moved to the Victoria Hotel at that time. Who owned the Victoria Hotel (one of the breweries?), and who was the previous landlord, if any?
James' first wife was my relative, but it's interesting to know that he remarried (and not that long after Elizabeth's death!). I have also seen reference to his having married a third time - do you know anything of this?
Finally, I believe that Robert had a sister 2 years his junior. Elisabeth (I've got this from a previous conversation on RootsChat.). Any idea what became of her? I don't think she appears on the 1861 census?!
I'm giving you more reason to spend time in the pub I think...
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Jane Prophet, 1858, is interesting. No mention of her in 1861 census. Maybe not a child of James and Elizabeth.
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The Victoria was a Greenhall Whitley pub ...closed down about 8 years ago ...the saltworks owned the streets Ultonia St / Utopia St etc a row of 4 streets and the workers had those houses provided by the company ....
Jane Prophet was born 1858 and buried 2nd May 1886 - so she never married - I will see if I can find her in the 1871 / 1881 census
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ADDED I think that Jane Prophet may be Jane Hazelhurst - who became Jane Prophet when she married James Prophet in 1879 ...so on her death record it states Jane Prophet born 1858 - died 1886 but pretty certain she was born Hazelhurst.. :)
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Well he didn't hang around did he
Jane was buried 2nd May 1886 and James married Mary Jane Atkin on 5th september 1886
looks like she was a widow as her father was Thomas Holmes
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Jane Prophet, 1858, is interesting. No mention of her in 1861 census. Maybe not a child of James and Elizabeth.
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Hi, Elizabeth Prophet married John Davies in st Nicholas church Liverpool 16/10/1866 and came to Swansea in 1870. If anyone has any information on John I would be very interested...thanks
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Where do I begin..........
James Prophet (1828 - 1900)was my great grandfather. It has taken me absolutely ages to sort his ancestry out, but I am confident I have now got him spot on, apart from his son Robert Prophet, who is still a bit of a conundrum.
James married 4 times.
7/6/1846 to Elizabeth Dougherty who died at the age of 23 on 28/2/1850.
16/6/1850 (less than 4 months later) to Elizabeth Shaw who at the time was 17 years old. She died on 10/12/1878 aged 45.
27/2/1879 (less than 3 months later) to Jane Hazelhurst (my great grandmother) who was 21 years old. She died 27/4/1886 aged 28 years old.
5/9/1886 (4 months later) to a widow Mary Jane Atkin who was 43 years old. She died aged 54 on 2/7/1897.
He died on 17/8/1900 and is buried in St Michaels. He was born in Witton cum Twinbrooks, near Northwich and moved to Garston with his father Allen (1798-1881). Originally he did work at the saltworks with his father before taking over the Victoria.
Funnily enough Mary Jane left her money to St Michaels and not him.
James mother was disowned by her family for being an alcoholic and committed suicide in 1858 at the home of Joseph Keefe of 7 Alfred Street (now demolished)
Garstonite kindly found James Prophet's gravestone and sent me a photo. I also have a photo of James outside the Victoria in the early 1880's. He was a big chap.
He had an eventful life. :o
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In 1846 James Prophet married Elizabeth Dougherty. In that year Robert Prophet was born in Garston, and in the 1851 census they lived at the Saltworks, along with a daughter Elizabeth born 1848.
In 1861 they are at the Saltworks but the daughter is not shown. His wife by now is Elizabeth Shaw. Robert is a Salt boilers assistant. Another son John Wainwright Prophet died in 1854 aged 2.
By 1871 they had moved to the Victoria and James father Allen had moved in with them. No sign of Robert. In 1879 another son, James, died aged one month
By 1871 Robert appears to have married and moved to Birkenhead
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Hi Rammy Jack, maybe a spanner in the works, but I have Elizabeth Prophet's (Dougherty) death certificate and she past away at Sinclair street on the 10th December 1878 aged 45 years. I join the Prophets through their daughter Elizabeth (b.1/5/1845) who married John Davies of Sinclair street and left Garston for Swansea in 1870. I have a few certificates relating to James and I also have his father Allen's death certificate if you want any copies. If it is at all possible I would love a copy of the photo of James you have. I visited Garston last year and had a good ramble around and it was great to see the Victoria pub. We met a really nice lady in St Micheal's church and she showed us some of the books and where the Prophet family grave was, so we had some great photos and a great day. I'm struggling to find any further back on the John Davies side, He was born in Seacombe Cheshire in 1849, his fathers name was George Davies. John and Elizabeth married in St Nicholas Church Liverpool 16th October 1866. Any help on George would be gratefully received. Thank you...
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Sorry, throwing a spanner in my own works here.....I didn't know of the marriage to Elizabeth Shaw. I should have studied the grave photos I have a little more closely. So thanks for that new info...
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Yes looks like you fell into the same trap as I did.
James married two different Elizabeths which really threw me until I eventually worked it out.
He married Elizabeth Dougherty on 7th June 1846 when she was 19 years old. Elizabeth Dougherty died on 28th February 1850, and James more or less immediately married Elizabeth Shaw on 16th June 1850. Hence 2 wives called Elizabeth Prophet...........
Elizabeth Shaw died on 10th December 1878. So the death certificate you have is actually for Elizabeth Shaw.
The bit that's puzzling me is that Elizabeth (b 1/5/1845) was a full year before his first marriage. If that's so James was only 16 when she was conceived.
I have two or three pictures of James and I traced his father Allen back too. You are welcome to copies of these and obviously I would welcome the ones you have.
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Hi, apologise again. ! should have typed 1 may 1848 for the birth of Elizabeth at 25 mill street toxteth park. Two years after James and Elizabeth Dougherty married..
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Wow! All these chats are proving very interesting. I too have merged the two Elizabeths into one, and was not aware that Elizabeth Dougherty died so young. Interestingly, I have Elizabeth Dougherty born in 1832, marrying in June 1846 and giving birth to Robert, my great grandfather, in August of that year - so she was 14, and six months pregnant when she got married! At that time, as I understand it, the law required that the bride be at least 12 years old, and the groom at least 14 - and that anyone getting married has to have the parents' permission to do so. As Allen Prophet and Hugh Dougherty are both cited in the wedding record, I assume that the wedding was undertaken with due respect to the law!
If ED was indeed born in 1832, she was only 18 or 19 when she died - a very sad thought.
As far as Robert is concerned, I can tell you that he ran the Ring O'Bells pub in St Helens - a location quite close to the town centre, but the pub no longer exists.
Ar dystysgrif geni Edith (1878), Occupation Inkeeper of Westfield St, St Helens
Occupation: Boilermaker (from his son's (John Stephen) birth cert 1871)
He was a Rivetter by the time his youngest daughter was born (Mary Ann - known in our family as Aunty Pop) in 1880.
£4/13/- was paid to John Simpson, undertaker (22&151, Old Chester Rd, Tranmere) for funeral of the late Robert Profit(sic) at Bebington Cemetry. His gravestone is still there and clearly marked.
Cause of death: 'Accidentally killed by falling into a graving dock'
Inquest held 3/12/87 by Henry Churton, Coroner for Birkenhead.
On his gravestone, his age is recorded as 43 (and also on his wife Elizabeth's grave in Rake Lane Wallasey)
He died at 177 Old Chester Road - now a Salvation Army building in Rock Ferry.
Robert had one son and four daughters:
ROBERT PROPHET was born 23 Aug 1846 in Garston, and died 02Dec 1887 in 177 Old Chester Rd, Tranmere. He married ELIZABETH MAIRE STEPHEN 1870 in Wirral. She was born 1844, and died 12 March 1913 in Birkenhead.
Notes for ELIZABETH MAIRE STEPHEN:
after Robert's death, took up 'Quakers'(?) a business at shop corner of Lucerne St and Wheatland Rd.
Children of ROBERT PROPHET and ELIZABETH STEPHEN are:
2. i. ELIZABETH MAIRE PROPHET, b. 1873, St Helens; d. about March 1947, Wallasey.
ii. JOHN STEPHEN PROPHET, b. 14 Meh 1871, Poulton cum Seacombe.
3. iii. FLORENCE PROPHET, b. 1876, St Helens?.
4. iv. EDITH ANN PROPHET, b. 26 July 1878, St Helens?; d. about 1960.
v. MARY ANN PROPHET, b. 05 Aug 1880, 5, Belle Vue Road, Poolton cum Seacombe; d. 26 March 1956, Wallasey?; m. T. A. PERCY JONES; d. 20 August 1943, Wallasey?.
Elizabeth Maire (yes! another Elizabeth!), my grandmother, died before I was born in 1951. I do recall Mary Ann (Aunty Pop) who was always so generous and loving. Sadly she had no children of her own. I also remember Edith who married James Pappin and, when I remember them, lived in Wallasey with their only child, Dorothy who married Donald Pinches and had one child, Hilary who now lives with her family in Irby.
I would be grateful of any other information anyone has on this, and am delighted with the latest info posted here. It would be really good to have a copy of the photo of James Prophet outside the Victoria!
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Hi Huw
You are yet another cousin from James Prophet...... :o
From other records I have tracked down it appears that Elizabeth Dougherty was born in 1827 so she was actually 19 years old when she married James, who was 18 at the time. As you say Robert was born soon after.
The information that you have gleaned makes very interesting reading.
My grandmother was Ann Jane Prophet from his 3rd marriage to Jane Hazelhurst, born in 1881. She married Henry George Vernon Griffiths from West Derby. They moved to Bury after their marriage in 1907. He became manager of the local WH Smiths on Bury station.
If you let me have your email address I'll forward a copy of the picture of James outside the Victoria.
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Elizabeth Prophet nee Dougherty is quoted as being 23 at the time of her death on 28/2/1850, giving her a year of birth of 1827. Robert was born in 1823. Hence 4 years before her death making her 19 years old when Robert was born.
The confusion may have arisen in the 1851 census showing Elizabeth Proffit (sic) being born in 1832 but this Elizabeth was Elizabeth Shaw who became James second wife in 1850. There were under 4 months between the first Elizabeth dying and him marrying the second.
Robert Prophet is on this census (1851) aged 5 and Elizabeth is 3 years old. Elizabeth was born to Elizabeth Dougherty on 1st May 1848 and married John Davies and moved to Swansea.
The comments from Mark (MD860) on Roots chat relate to this. It would appear that you and mark have the same greatgrandparents James and Elizabeth Dougherty. Mine are James and Jane Hazelhurst (His 3rd wife).
Very complex.