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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: borderman on Friday 27 January 12 15:24 GMT (UK)
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john witter formerly of liverpool uk...lived new south wales...came to uk about 1900 tool my great aunt kate witter to australia....she married a wilson in 1903.. know... nothing about him
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You can search the NSW BDM online where you will find your family:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=
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You can find mentions of a John WITTER here, including mentions of his Estate after his death....
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper.
This link may be of particular interest to you.....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k00/
Quoting.....
"WITTER – The friends and relatives of Mrs KATE WILSON of 29 Lo? street A?lburn are invited to attend the Funeral of her late dearly beloved sister Margaret Witter to Ieave the Mortuary Station Regent Street city TOMORROW (Wednesday MORN1NG) by 9 30 o clock Funeral Train for Rookwood Cemetery, Rookwood Friend alight at No 4 Platform.
WOOD COFFILL LIMITED"
Dee :)
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Hi,
The 1891 England Census has Kate Witter, 8 and Margaret,2 plus with 6 other sibling and parents Samuel Witter (38) & Sarah Witter (40) residing at 25 Derby St, borough of Bootle, Parish of West Derby.
Regards
Gerry
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Hi,
John Witter married Robina Critchley in 1926.
NSW Registration District, Canterbury #1057/1026.
John Witter(66) retired farmer and Robina Witter (39) embarked in Sydney on the ' Strathnaver' for Plymouth via Brisbane arrived 19th October 1934.
Both were visiting 263 Robbins Lane, Autton, St Helens, Lancashire.
Gerry
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John WITTER, single and aged 32, a grazier, travelled from London to Sydney on the "Ortona", departing on 6th July 1900.
With him was Miss Kate WITTER, single and a servant , aged 17.
John WITTER, a farmer aged 53, departed Liverpool for Sydney on board the "Runic" on 18th November 1921.
John WITTER, retired, and wife Robina left London for Sydney on board the "Strathaird" on 29th January, 1935.
Both John, retired, and Robina WITTER travelled back from London to Sydney on board the "Mooltan" departing on 22nd July 1937.
Dee :)
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This willl sound "round and about", but the Witter name has struck a chord.
Trove has a family notice regarding the death of Mrs Celina Marguerite Delpierre of Banksia Street, Granville (NSW), in November 1954. Mrs Delpierre was the mother of Susanne (Mrs Witter) ... and I am pretty sure this is the Mrs Witter - a widow - who was an acquaintance of mine, during the late 1960s-early 1970s.
The Witter estate used to be on an island in Duck Creek. There was a factory building there, behind the rambling weatherboard and brick house (which could only be reached by a ricketty wooden footbridge sans railings!)and apparently they used to be rag and cloth merchants.
Sadly, the estate - indeed, the island! - has now vanished, as developers moved in and re-landscaped the banks of the Creek, building housing on the reclaimed land.
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Hi,
There is a lengthy Australian WW1 record for a John Witter born around 1887 in England who married a Suzanne Selina Delpierre, 21, from Calais in France. They were married in Calais on 19th January 1918.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx
Regards
Gerry
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Yes, Mrs Witter had a pronounced accent. And the estate was on the Granville side of Duck Creek ... fifty metres away across the creek, Mona Park was classified as being in Auburn.
** Edited to add ... there must have been better road access, prior to the factory shutting down ... otherwise, how would trucks have transported their raw materials in and goods out? ??? **
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Snap!
Now here's another interesting little twist.....whether he's connected to John WITTER and niece Kate remains to be seen......
Another John WITTER came to Sydney from Liverpool, England but I haven't yet found his first arrival here. However, he was 27 years old when he joined up in Liverpool, Australia for WW1.
His digitised service record can be found at http://www.naa.gov.au/ and is free to download. It contains addresses in England.
(If you have any problems navigating the site, just ask for help.)
Dee
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Hmmmm interesting; - the name and trade continues, in Melbourne - the company still makes industrial cleaning cloths ...
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I’ve still to find the arrival of John WITTER, the Loco Fireman, arriving in Australia before WW1. However, I have found him as J. WITTER. returning to Sydney from London in 1922. He was aged 35, was a Loco Engr, and departed London on board the “Osterley” on 17th February 1922.
His last address in the UK was 61B, Bertnleg St, Liverpool.
Dee :)
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1871….. RG10/3848/75/33
Gardner Road Ten Brook Cottage, West Derby
…..possibly John WITTER, the grazier’s family……his death in NSW gives his father as Richard WITTER……and here is John Witter of the right age with parents Richard and Kate.
It’s the only John WITTER of the right age with father Richard.
Dee :)
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1895 NSW Country Directory
COOLAMON
Witter, John, Goorinawa, grazier.
NSW 1904 Wise PO Directory
BARRADINE
Witter, John, selector.
Gerry
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Richard WITTER married Catherine DWERRY in the June Quarter 1850 in the district of Liverpool
20/309
Father in Law John DWERRYHOUSE was in the household on the 1871 Census as referenced above.
Dee :)
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Inscriptions at the Baradine Cemetery
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=7294807
Mary Ann Witter died 10th Nov 1910 (50) beloved wife of John.
and
Richard Witter (63) died 27th Dec 1893.
Gerry
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I see a John Witter, father Richard, who died in the Chatswood area in 1947 ... reg # 7798/1947. Also, Robina Witter, father Peter, mother Alice, died in the St Leonards area, 1968 ... reg # 11434/1968
There's also a death of a Cecil Henry, father Jack, mother Susanna Delina (sic), Parramatta district, 1954 ... reg # 20792/1954
Of course, it still might end up being totally the wrong family ::)
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I'm pretty sure we have the right family with John WITTER the grazier, Deb, and all the information that's surfaced for him. He definitely had niece Kate with him journeying out to Australia in 1900.
I haven't found a census record with John with a brother Samuel yet though..... :-\
The other one I can't link is John Henry that married in France. :-\
Dee :)
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D'you think the John Henry Witter who married in France might be the Granville one? 'T'would make sense, wouldn't it, seeing as Mrs Witter was French. In which case he's the John who was the father of Cecil Henry
Feel as if my mind's gone into "idiot" mode, now, probably caused by reminiscing about the Witters I knew ... do you think there's a family connection, or am I missing something? ::)
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1851
HO107/2192/745/13
This sees Richard WITTER farm labourer married to Catherine DWERRYHOUSE and living with his inlaws. They have 4 month old daughter Mary.
Mother of Catherine was also named Mary. ::)
Deb, as yet I haven't found a link for John Henry WITTER, but yes, he's the Granville one and father of Cecil Henry. :)
Dee ;D
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Richard, Kate/Catherine and family don't want to be found in 1861!!!! :(
Dee :)
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The John Witter who married in France returned to Australia on the 'Zealandic' with his wife and one child disembarking on 23rd August 1919.
Gerry
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Good work, Gerry! Can't help but suspect that with Witters on one side of the creek, and Witters on the other side of the creek, ... surely they were related ...
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Eight Witter death notices appear in the Ryerson Index.
http://ryersonindex.net/search.php
Gerry
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Hi,
The 1891 England Census has Kate Witter, 8 and Margaret,2 plus with 6 other sibling and parents Samuel Witter (38) & Sarah Witter (40) residing at 25 Derby St, borough of Bootle, Parish of West Derby.
Regards
Gerry
And Samuel doesn't want to be found in earlier censuses either! :(
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1881 Census.
Etna St, West Derby, Lancashire.
Saml Witter, 28, coachman, born, West Derby, Lancashire.
Sarah Witter, 30, wife, born, Liverpool, Lancashire.
George Witter, 6, son, scholar, born, West Derby.
Saml Witter, 5, son, scholar, born, West Derby.
Robert Witter, 2, son, borb, West Derby.
James N Witter, 1, son, born, West Derby.
Gerry
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Photo of Mr J WITTER....it seems he was a member of the Coonabarabran Shire Council.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k06/
He was also a Magistrate.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k07/
Dee :)
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A picture and a little information about the Barradine Memorial Hall.
http://www.coonabarabran.com/baradine/attractions.htm
Another website which my antivirus programme didn't really like.....I think it was the pop ups that were the problem......said that prominent resident John WITTER laid the Memorial Stone on Remembrance Day 1925.
Dee :)
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Info from NSW State Records……..
The COONAMBLE AMUSEMENT COMPANY, Castlereagh Street Coonamble, was registered on 22 Apr, 1913. John WITTER was one of 4 people carrying on the business, which involved picture shows and skating rinks.
Dee :)
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Well i didn't expect so many helpful replies...thanks DEBD..DEEILUKA..MERLIN...AUSSIE47....i now know john witter was born in 1868..good lead...the witter family lived in derby street liverpool(now demolished)..used to go there just after the war...my dad said he used to post the papers to australia when he was a lad...thought he was romancing...but obviously not...i wonder where john witter got his cash from to buy barradine? the richard witter who married dwerryhouse was the son of "richard the gardener" witter..who moved from cheshire to liverpool...i am going to have to write all your replies down and see where i go next..thanks again everyone...
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Barradine is a place......John Witter's property was near there. :)
If you put "John Witter" into the Trove Newspapers site posted earlier,
you'll see that he was a small landholder who bred prize sheep etc.
Have fun sorting it. :D
Dee :)
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Aussie47...the samuel witter aged 5 in the 1881 census was my grandfather...
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Just a little bit more info on his properties.
1895 John Witter was at Goorinawa near Coolamon as a grazier.
1904 John Witter was at Baradine
1913 John Witter was at Baradine, his property was called Jesmond and it was 1500 acres
1923 John Witter was at Baradine, his property was called Stanton, 88 cattle, 590 sheep.
1925 John Witter was at Baradine, his property was called Stanton, 130 cattle, 1370 sheep.
It appears that John may have been a grazier first at Goorinawa near Coolamon in NSW then moved to Baradine. His property names were Jesmond and Stanton, they may have been the same place just had a name change!
Gerry
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Borderman,
Pleased you got a lot of information about your John Witter and great that you have a reference to your Grandfather when he was 5 so many years ago, my Grandfather was 9 in 1881 from Strathdon in Scotland.
Wonder who was the Richard Witter buried at Baradine in 1893 aged 63!
Good luck with your research.
Gerry
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Aussie47...are those properties small by australian standards? where is strathdon near...as my other branch of the family hail from bewcastle in cumberland...it was in the "debatable lands" neither scottish or english...originally they may have come from newcastleton..in roxburgh..
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It was probably a typical size property around Baradine but as Dee said earlier he had prize sheep which meant high quality wool which would have attracted a high price.
Strathdon is in the Highlands of Aberdeenshire in Scotland.
I do have a branch that were from Kirknewton in Northumberland then to Coldsteam on the border then to East Gordon in Berwickshire. Not too far away from your border family.
The fun with Australian genealogy is that we all have so many immigrants coming out including convicts to follow up on. In my own case between 1848 to 1880 I have 1 from Ireland, 2 from Scotland, 1 from Switzerland, 2 from Germany, 1 from England and one from the USA but no convicts. Then after their arrivals they often moved around following the gold or to take up land etc.
Gerry
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MERLIN...Thank you...have just looked at the website...very useful...Thanks again
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Hi,
1861 uk census ref rg9 2735 143 38, Father Richard with wife and son Samuel and siblings.
1871 census ref rg10 3848 75 33
John
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SOFTLYSOFTLY...thank you for info....there were three Richard Witters ...one born 1753 the second born 1795 the third married catherine dwerryhouse in 1850...quite why and when john witter went to Australia i don't know...he did come back to take Kate Witter to Australia where she married John Wilson in 1903..he also came back again to marry Robina Critchley of St Helens...how he became wealthy so quickly is another mystery!
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Hi Borderman,
Spent a little time last night trying to establish a relationship between Jojn Witter and John Henry Witter -without so far success. If the John Henry is the 1 that died 1963 (aged 76 according to Ryerson index)then he was born c 1887. His parents are recorded as Henry and Susan. On that basis he was born march q 1889 West Derby 8b 287. His parents, Henry Witter/Susan Ryder married March q 1881 West Derby 8b 750. They appear on 1881 census with a son Thomas. The family including John Henry appear on 1891 uk census ref rg12 2985 99 4 transcribed as "WHITTER" .Susan dies aged 42 in West Derby in 1898. By 1901 Henry is with another"wife" Margaret (cant find a marriage" ref rg13 3463 54 41-John now aged 14. Henry the father was born Sept q 1850 West Derby 20 1116, parents John/Ellen Leigh. The search continues.
John
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SOFTLY SOFTLY...sorry for delay in replying...john henry witter has cropped up before and i have no idea how he is related...might have something to do with the witter (loco fireman) who migrated to Austalia and joined the AIF in the first world war and married a french lady..i don't know..i went to West Derby several times after the war..met lots of relatives..none mentioned Australia...although i believe Kate Witter/Wilson visited several times and did die in Liverpool c.1949..John Witter also visited a few times including getting a wife..Robina Critchley..at St Helens...
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While researching the details of the property that my grandfather Malcolm McDonald bought at Baradine NSW in 1916, the early Parish Map indicates part of this land was originally owned by John Witter. The earliest record I have found re this land is 1896 in the NSW Govt. Gazettes when it was called Old Barwon, Baradine. Do you have any details about when he purchased this property?
My father was raised on the property that was called Caledonia when purchased in 1916, and I grew up there as well. It seems that John Witter continued to live in the Baradine district and owned eight shops in the town. His first wife Mary Ann Fraser (1860 -1910) was buried at Baradine.
His second wife was Robina Critchley and they were married in Sydney in 1926. The deceased estate files record that John Witter, retired grazier, died at Turramurra in 1949.
Would like to know when he arrived in Australia and any details about the early land purchase.
Thanks.
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Hi Twinks....John Witter is a mystery man in many ways...as far as i know he left Liverpool not a wealthy man..but somewhere along the way he seems to have done rather well..my Great Aunt,Kate Witter went to australia in 1900 with John who had revisited the UK...Kate married in Australia to a John Wilson also originally from the UK...descendants of Kate live in NSW...on this chat website are numerous references to the property at Barradine...there are also refs in Nsw stats re the holdings at Barradine..ie number of sheep etc...
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Can you please confirm his date of birth and death? Do you have his last census details in the UK which would help to confirm when he arrived here? Children?
He was obviously a successful grazier and appears in the newspapers winning lots of prizes for his sheep at the local agricultural shows. Today I also found him in a newspaper photo in 1907 when he was an alderman at the local council. Details of his properties are recorded in the NSW Sand's Directories between 1901 and 1927, with acres and livestock.
Any dates and details would be much appreciated including parents names. Thanks.
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Have put together some details about this family:
John Witter (1868 -1947) was the youngest son of the eight children of Richard Witter (1830 -1893) and Catherine Dwerryhouse (1831 -1906). He probably arrived in Australia in the early 1890s and by 1896 had selected land near Baradine in western NSW that he called Old Barwon. (Barwon was the name of the original Parish) He was a successful grazier and later had several trips back to England.
Several members of the family also came to Australia including his father Richard who died in 1893 and is buried at Baradine NSW. John's first wife Mary Ann Fraser (whom he married in Sydney in 1893), died in 1910 and is also buried at Baradine NSW.
John's niece Kate (daughter of his brother Samuel) arrived in Australia in 1900, accompanied by John on a return trip from England. Kate married John William Wilson in 1903 at Coonamble NSW (a nearby town) and their son, also named John William Wilson, was born at Coonamble in1905.
John Witter's sister Annie Hastie Witter married James Critchley in 1886. Their daughter Alice Critchley came to Australia in 1921 accompanied by John Witter on another return trip from England. Alice married Martin Rahn at Bathurst NSW in 1925.
James Critchley's brother Peter was the father of Robina Critchley (1894 -1968) who married John Witter in Sydney NSW in 1926.
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Hi,
An old NSW Barwon Parish Map has John Witter's blocks marked.
Gerry
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Thanks Gerry, I have copies of the old Barwon parish maps. That is why I started searching for John Witter as his land was part of the property that my grandfather bought in 1916, with an existing house. I suspect that Witter may have selected the land in the early 1890s. First record found for him at Baradine was NSW Govt. Gazette 1896.
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That's good that you have discovered the maps. The 1895 NSW Country Directory has John Witter in the District of Coonabarabran as a grazier at Goorianawa.
Gerry
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Gerry can you give me the link for that reference please. The whole area is called the Goorianawa Valley (including the town of Baradine that was originally part of a pastoral run named Barradean occupied by James Walker in 1837) In 1877 part of this was bought by Cuthbert Fetherstonhaugh (an Irish immigrant)with partners, and named Goorianawa Station, and managed by him for 20 years. The name has remained but the property has been greatly reduced and part of this was added to my family's property in the 1930s. Witter's land (that became the home paddocks for our property ''Caledonia") adjoined Goorianawa Station. Coonabarabran is a nearby large town.
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There is no link as such the "Hall's Business, Professional and Pastoral Directory, NSW, 1895" is one of the data bases of a genealogical service that I subscribe to.
There are 10 persons listed under the Farming Section, Coonabarabran, Goorianawa.
Ed. W, Beazley, grazier
C. Fetherstonhaugh, grazier
Francis. Hibbert, grazier
Jas. Hodges, farmer
Thos. Judge, farmer
Al.f Masman, farmer
Alf. M, Masman, farmer
Hy. Masman, farmer
Wm. Siely, grazier
John Witter, grazier
Gerry
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I have been looking into the person who built our old home on Bobbin Head Road, Turramurra. I believe it was a John Witter who's wife Robina died many years after him 1968? We bought this home in 1971 so we never met the original owners.
I know this is going to sound creepy.
When we moved into our first home, I was very close to giving birth to our first child. One night, close to dawn I woke up to find a man standing beside my bed, I wasn't scared and I said 'Hello!' This man wearing a big bushy beard and dressed in brownish coloured bib and brace overalls, looked at me and said, 'Don't worry everything is going to be alright now.' I didn't think anything about this incident it was comforting if anything and I was busy moving in then my child was born so it was some time later that I told our neighbours about seeing this man and they looked shocked and told me it had to be Mr Witter.
Just last week, 44 years later, an old friend of mine mentioned that he knew a fellow who had lived on Bobbin Head Road as a child and he told my friend he believed that our old home was known to have a ghost and he and his young friends were always on the look out for this ghost.
Does anyone know of this? and is there anyone who might have a photo of John Witter please.
cheers Pennie
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penelope jane....please contact me
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How do I contact you privately? Don't worry I found out. cheers Pennie
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Sorry to activate an old post. I am interested in learning more about John Witter who came to Australia. I am researching the family of Richard Cheetham Witter who came to Sydney in 1920. He was the older brother of James William Cheetham Witter or Titanic fame. I was wondering if you have any ancestry to see if they are related. This family dates to 1720 in Aughton then Halsall, then Liverpool than Southampton. You will see my posts under Witter's of Halsall.
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Sorry to activate an old post.
Please do not apologise, I am sure the members will be delighted to hear from you :)
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I lived close to the Witters in Granville.My brothers and I were friends of Sally Murray and old Mrs Witter where we kept our horses.She had enough land with a creek running through it.Her home had many old sewing machines.She told us they were French Jews.We did handyman jobs for her and she made us cups of tea.A very lovely and intelligent person.
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I am replying to a 2012 post about John Witter. I am currently researching the family of Richard Witter and Ellen Hastie. I know at least one family member came to Australia, Alice Critchley whose mother was Annie Hastie Witter. Alice was born Lancashire 1894/5 and married a chap called Rahardt in Bathurst in 1925. Keen to learn more.
I am currently writing a book about the Witter and Whittier families of Lancashire and Cheshire, and in particular the family of Thomas Witter (c. 1700, Wrightington) and descendants from Halsall. You can learn more about my search on my Witter from Halsall thread.
Any Witter information would be very helpful. I have already catalogued and researched between 2,000 and 3,000 Witters and Whitter’s and am sorting them into family units now.
Dennis
Witter of Halsall
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Hi Dennis,
When you reply to posts on RootsChat an email notification is sent out to the members to let them know so they should be notified of your reply.
If you put "witter" into the RootsChat search box you will see the other topics, there are about 50 on this surname.
Regards
Sarah
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In 2019, I posted that I was reply to a 2012 post. (see 2019 post). I have since been contacted by related people and now have the story of John Witter and his ancestors. Thanks go to Bill Witter of Essex and John Wilson of Dubbo for their contributions. Sadly, both passed away over the last two years.