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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bobfilm on Wednesday 01 February 12 11:15 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the marriages for Alfred Hugh Harman (abt 1841 in Kennington, Surrey, London – 23 May 1913 in Surrey, Sussex) who founded Ilford Film.
I think he may have married about 1860 to Amelia Ann (or Margaret) Taylor (possibly born abt 1839 in St Martin's, St Pancras).
They are shown in 1861 at 3 Albert Cottages, Hill Street, Peckham, Camberwell, Surrey where he is in partnership with photographer - Henry Dages.
In 1871, he is a Artist Photographer at Ewell Road, Kingston on Thames, Surrey.
In 1881, he is shown as Gelatine Plate Manufacturer at Cranbrook Lane 4 South Park, Barking, Essex
Alfred and Amelia had 7 children. I think he may have left her as in 1881 she is shown with children at Geneva Road, Lambeth, London and in 1901 at Gilmore Road, Lewisham as Widow / Living On Own Means with daughter Amelia.
Alfred Hugh Harman may have married Nina Octavie Helvetie Du Gué (abt 1841 in Dublin, Ireland - 1902), daughter of Benjamin Louis du Gué, of Lausanne. She is shown as his wife in 1901 at The Lodge Lower Grayswood House, Grayswood, Witley. I can find no record of a marriage?
Last entry for him, shows him as a Widower / Retired Manufacturer of Photographic Goods living at Lower Grayshurst Haslemere Surrey.
He left a share of his will (valued at £333,000 in 1913) to his adopted daughter Margaret Hilda Knobel (Harman). I think she was the daughter of Edward Ball Knobel (who was Director of the Ilford Photographic Company) and Margaret nee Whitehead (abt 1851 in St James, Middlesex). I don't know why he adopted her or left her his money?
Any leads or information welcome.
:)
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There's a short biography on Wikipedia.
Says he married widow Nina Kobble, from Dublin, who had a son George from her first marriage?
Indeed, they are together on the 1881 census:
Reference RG11, Piece 1746, Folio 101, Page 2
4 Cranbrook Lane, South Park, Barking, Essex
Harman, Alfred H Head M 39 Gelatine Plate Manufacturer b Lambeth
Harman, Nina Wife F 39 b Dublin
Knobble, George StepSon M 18 b Liverpool
Tress, Elega Visitor F 30 b Edinburgh
Possibly, Amelia (first wife) dies in 1880:
June qtr 1880
Bethnal Green vol 1c, page 110
Harman, Amelia age 41
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Marriage to Amelia was in the June quarter Camberwell, ref. 1d 801
Alfred Harman and Amelia Taylor.
Annette
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Thanks KGarrad
I think this may be wrong as Nina is 'Nina Octavie Helvetie Du Gué' and there isn't a Nina KOBBLE, only a
Margaret Hilda Knobel-Harman
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So Wikipedia got it wrong, too?! ???
Then try PhotoLondon: http://www.photolondon.org.uk/pages/details.asp?pid=3494
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Thanks KGarrad
I have all this info. What I trying to find is any links to the actual marriages.
Nothing seems to come up on the various family search sites.
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If this marriage from FamilySearch is correct, Nina was married previously:
Nina Octavie Helvétie DU GIE married Thomas George RAUSBY, 21 May 1860, Edinburgh.
Rambler
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Maybe Nina married twice otherwise where does the surname Kobble come from?
Willow x
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Have been trying to find the birth of George in Liverpool, c 1863?
No luck, so far! :(
How about this?
September qtr 1861
West Derby vol 8b, page 332
Rousby, George Hnobel (or Hooble)
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1871
RG10; Piece 4789; Folio 129; Page 17 - 23 Arlington St, Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire
George T ROUSBY Head 34 Oil & Seed Broker b. Hull
Nina O H ROUSBY Wife 30 b. Dublin
George K ROUSBY Son 9 b. Liverpool
Betsy A FOX Servant 21 General Domestic Servant b. Louth, Lincs
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That makes more sense good chance Margaret is from the same marriage thats why she is his adopted daughter
Willow x
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If Margaret was from the same relationship, she would, presumably, be with the family though?
George T Rousby looks to be Thomas G Rousby, who marries in Sheffield in 1881
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Hi
There is a divorce record for George Rousby and Nina
Divorce Court File: 2794. Appellant: Nina Octavie Helvelie Rousby. Respondent: George Thomas Rousby. Type: Wife's petition [wx].
Covering dates 1873
Held by The National Archives, Kew
Margp
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If Margaret was from the same relationship, she would, presumably, be with the family though?
George T Rousby looks to be Thomas G Rousby, who marries in Sheffield in 1881
Possibly she could have stayed with her father
Willow x
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Do you have Alfred in 1911?
From free index, they seem to be together- maybe she was a companion or carer?
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Hilda Margaret Knobel-Harman was his adopted daughter.
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There doesn't seem to be a divorce for Arthur and Amelia and no marriage for Arthur and Nina.
Is it known why George has the name Knobel? What connection was there between Nina or Thomas George Rousby and that family?
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Hilda Margaret Knobel-Harman was his adopted daughter.
Bobfilm wants to know why he adopted her and left her his money. Adoption wasn't formal then and unless there is a written explanation it wouldn't be known.
Margaret is still at home in 1901, aged 27 yrs.
I just wondered if she became a companion or carer to Alfred in the intervening years.
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Thanks everybody
It would now seem that Nina Octavie Helvetie Du Gué married George Thomas Rousby.
They had a son George Knobel Rousby* (abt 1862 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England)
*I don't know why his middle name is Knobel ?
Nina and George divorce in 1873. George marries a Mary Sherwin.
Nina meets up with Alfred Hugh Harman and is shown as his wife in 1881/1901 census.
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Hilda Margaret Knobel (Harman) was the daughter of Edward Ball Knobel (21 October 1841 in Baker Street, Marylebone, Middlesex - 25 July 1930) married 1869 in Hampstead to Margaret Whitehead (abt 1851 in St James, Middlesex).
She is later shown as adopted daughter of Alfred Hugh Harman an he leaves her money in his will.
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Still not sure why 'Knobel' keeps cropping up?
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I'm not suggesting anything between Margaret and Arthur but she was a bit old to be 'adopted'. Maybe he was her godfather?
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1901 census, RG13, 136, 71, 3
Tavistock Square, St Pancras
Edward B Knobel is Director Photographic Plate Company!
Daughter Margaret H Knobel is at home.
Wikipedia again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Hugh_Harman
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Hi
You can purchase the divorce records from the following link, I had my dads from there and there was a lot of unexpected information in them.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?SearchInit=0&txtsearchterm=ROUSBY&txtfirstdate=1858&txtlastdate=1937&txtrestriction=j77&hdnsorttype=Reference&j=1
Margp
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Thanks MargP - will try that
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My Grandmother was Margaret Elizabeth Harman and I think she was the Grandaughter of Amelia and Alfred Hugh Harman. She was born in Australia and married William John Pretty. Any information about her father would be appreciated.
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Hi Bob,
I'm the Great Great Grandaughter of Alfred Hugh Harman and I'm afraid he caused a bit of a family scandal. He did indeed leave his wife and the lady he is buried next to is not, and never was, his wife. I have a copy of his will and a few other papers, feel free to ask me anything and if I can answer I will. My Grandfather was very keen to keep the scandal secret.....I suppose I have just let the cat out of the bag.