RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: anglostark on Saturday 11 February 12 21:29 GMT (UK)
-
Looking for further information on the Greenwood family.....here is what I have so far :
Thomas Greenwood and Sarah Elliot had -
Joseph Greenwood (b. abt 1828) who married Isabella Barr (b. abt 1837) on the 9 Nov 1854 in Loughgall, County Armagh.
Joseph and Isabella had 8 children. The first two, Thomas (b. abt 1856) and John (b. abt 1858) were born in Ireland and the remaining 6 were born in Scotland.
All dates have been taken from death certs, birth certs and Census returns.
If anyone can help with more information or suggestions, that will be great.
Thanks Steven
-
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for? It might be hard to trace back beyond Thomas Greenwood but you might be able to get back a bit more. It helps that it's an unusual name in the area. I think you can safely assume that any Greenwoods in Loughgall Parish were related to you. I can see abstracts on familysearch.org of marriages of other Greenwoods in Loughgall with a father named Thomas so those families might be interesting to you? Do you have the full Greenwood/Barr civil marriage registration? That should give you townlands and occupations which is really important.
I found another thread on this site with mention of your Greenwoods:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=q0jee1sqc8e83gie6obslbvlr1&topic=455197.0
-
Welcome to Rootschat, Steven. I think your Greenwoods were more likely to be from Co. Antrim than Armagh. There is a Loughall in North Antrim and the other thread mentioned in above post indicates Antrim as well. Where did you get Armagh from?
Do you know what religion Joseph and Isabella were? civil registration of Catholic marriages started in 1864 but other marriages from 1845.
-
Thanks for both getting back to me, I'm just trying to get back as far as I can with this family.
The only documents that I have relating to the marriage of Joseph and Isabella Barr are from their children's birth, marriage and death certs.
Antrim or Armagh ?? The only evidence for them being from Armagh is from the following children's birth certs. I don't have certs for the other siblings but from the evidence below, I presumed that Armagh was the correct location .
Birth Cert for David b. 16 Apr 1863 states parents marriage - 1854 November 10th, Loughgall, Co. of Armagh, Ireland
Birth Cert for Joseph b. 9 Dec 1872 states parents marriage - 1854 November 9th, Loughgall, Co. Armagh, Ireland
Birth Cert for Isabella b. 26 Sep 1877 states parents marriage - 1854 November 11th, Parish of Loughgall, Ireland
I am from Scotland and I am not sure how to go about viewing on-line or getting copies of Northern Irish certificates
As for their religion, Joseph and Isabella's children, that I have certs for, were married in the Established Church of Scotland or the Free Church of Scotland.
-
Northern Ireland certificates are not online (and don't contain as much detail as Scottish ones). Will do a big more digging and see what I can find.
-
Have done a bit of digging and am posting what I have found so far.
First bit is not proven yet-
Thomas GREENWOOD married Sarah Elliot and possibly had-
1. Joseph GREENWOOD (c1828/36 Ireland) m. Isabella BARR (c1832/37 Ireland)
2. Mary GREENWOOD, daughter of Thomas, m.(14 Apr.1853 Loughall) William Hanley
3. William GREENWOOD, son of Thomas, m.(26 Oct.1854 Loughall) Margaret Davidson
1901 census- a William Greenwood (age 86 so born c1815) with daughter Sarah:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Loughgall/Derryloughan/1015844
More to follow...
-
From census, vital records, etc.:
Joseph Greenwood (c1828/36 Ireland-5 Jan.1909) m. Isabella BARR (c1832/37 Ireland-19 Sept.1908)
Married 1854 Loughgall, Armagh (marriage not found in civil register)
1. Thomas GREENWOOD (c1856 Ireland) m.1875 Agnes Woodburn
2. John GREENWOOD (c1858 Ireland) m. Agnes Hood
3. David Barr? GREENWOOD (16 Apr.1863 Tradeston, Glasgow) m. Margaret
4. Mary GREENWOOD (c1866 Scotland)
5. William GREENWOOD (c1868 Scotland)
6. Sarah GREENWOOD (24 Feb.1871 Dalry, Ayrshire) ?m.(1893) Alexander Reid
7. Joseph GREENWOOD (9 Dec.1872 Stevenson, Ayrshire)
8. Isabella GREENWOOD (26 Sept.1877 Scotland) m.(1909) Edward Johnstone Conniss
1871 Census- 14 Linn Row, Dalry, Ayrshire
Joseph Greeman? 35 Ireland. Wife Bella 39 Ireland. Children: Thomas 15, John 13, David 10, Mary 7, William 4, Sarah 6 months.
1881 Census- Kames Row, Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Joseph Greenwood, 50, Ireland. Wife Isabella Greenwood, 44, Ireland. Children: David 16, Mary 15, William 13, Sarah 11, Joseph 8, Isabella 3. Also 1 boarder.
1891 Census- Main St., Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Joseph Greenwood, 63, Ireland. Wife Isabella Greenwood, 56, Ireland. Children: David 26 b.Dalry, Joseph 18, Isabella 13.
1901 Census- Main St., Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Joseph Greenwood, 72, Ireland, retired coal miner
wife Isabella Greenwood, 66, Ireland, grocer
David Barr? GREENWOOD (16 Apr.1863 Tradeston, Glasgow) m. Margaret
1901 Census- Main St., Muirkirk
David Greenwood, 36, Dalry, cycle agent. Wife Margret Greenwood, 42, Muirkirk. Also 1 boarder, 2 visitors.
-
Thomas GREENWOOD (c1856 Ireland) m.(Dec.1875 Galston) Agnes WOODBURN (21 June 1858 Kilmarnock-1 June 1921 Ontario)
1. Ann A. GREENWOOD (c1876)
2. Isabella Barr GREENWOOD (8 Apr.1878 Muirkirk)
3. Joseph GREENWOOD (June 1879)
4. Helen GREENWOOD (c1883)
5. Robert GREENWOOD (c1884)
6. Mary GREENWOOD (c1886)
7. William GREENWOOD (c1888)
Illegitmate child? William Paterson Greenwood born 1876
1881 Census- 168 Garibaldi Square, Dalziel, Lanarkshire
Thom Greenwood, 25, Ireland, coalminer. Wife Agnes 23. Children: Ann A. 5, Isabella B. 4, Joseph 1.
1891 Census- Bankshead Row, Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Thos. Greenwood, 35, Ireland, coalminer. Wife Agnes 33. Children: Isabella 12, Joseph 10, Helen 8, Robert 7, Mary 5, William 3.
1901 Census- 35 North Park St., Kelvinside, Glasgow:
Thomas Greenwood, 45, Ireland, singer's collector?. Wife Agness V?, 43, Kilmarnock. Children: Joseph 20, Helen 16, Robert 16, Mary 15, William 13.
21 Sept.1920 "Saturnia" arrived Quebec, Canada, from Glasgow, Scotland: Mrs. Agnes Greenwood, Presbyterian, b. Kilmarnock, to 'join family', daughetr Mrs. R. Paterson 15 Abermarle St. Hamilton.
Death: 1 June 1921, Agnes Woodburn Greenwood, 15 Abermarle Ave. Hamilton, b.21 June 1858 Scotland, 1 yr. in Canada, father- unk. mother- Woodburn, stroke, buried Hamilton Cemetery, informant- Joseph Greenwood.
Joseph GREENWOOD (June 1879), son of Thomas & Agnes, m. Maggie.
1. Thomas GREENWOOD (Dec.1904 Scotland)
2. Agnes GREENWOOD (May 1908 Scotland).
1911 Census- 105 Case St., Hamilton East, Wentworth, Ontario (all born Scotland, arrived Canada 1911):
Jopseh GREENWOOD, June 1879; Maggie Greenwood, Aug.1879; Thomas Greenwood, Dec.1904; Agnes Greenwood, May 1908.
-
John GREENWOOD (c1858 Ireland-died bet.1891/1901) m.(30 July 1879 Kilmarnock) Agnes Hood. Agnes (Hood) Greenwood m.2 John Murray.
1. Joseph GREENWOOD (c1880)
2. Hugh GREENWOOD (c1882)
3. Maggie GREENWOOD (c1885)
4. Isabella Barr "Bella" GREENWOOD (2 Mar.1886 Muirkirk)
5. William GREENWOOD (c1888)
6. Thomas GREENWOOD (c1892)
1881 Census- Baird's Land, Dalziel, Lanarkshire
John Greenwood, 23, Ireland, coal-miner. Wife Agnes Greenwood 22. Son Joseph Greenwood 10 months. Boarder Joseph Hood.
1891 Census- Garronhill, Muirkirk, Ayrshire
John Greenwood, 33, Ireland, fireman in pit. Wife Agnes 31. Children: Hugh 9, Maggie 6, Isabella 5, William 3.
1901 Census- Main St., Muirkirk, Ayrshire
John Murray 33. Wife Agnes Murray 40. Hugh Greenwood 19. Maggie Greenwood 16. Bella Greenwood 15. William Greenwood 13. Thomas Greenwood 9. Agnes Murray ? (not sure if John and Agnes' child).
-
I realise that the above information does not help in finding more about the Greenwood family in Ireland (agree that they were in Armagh rather than Antrim) but I posted all I found so far in case that you didn't have it or it might help others searching for the family.
I checked Irish civil registration index for Thomas Greenwood and wife Sara (Joseph's parents) without finding any likely deaths in Armagh. However, registration of deaths only started in 1864 so they might have died before that date or moved away.
Will keep looking and post any information or possible resources. In the mean time, have you checked for any of the family born in Ireland in 1911 Scottish census on the chance a more exact place of birth is mentioned?
-
Thanks aghadowey, you have been a great help.
The scottish information that you posted I have already but as you say it is now there for anyone else who is researching the same line.
The possible children of Thomas and Sarah looks interesting and will be worth looking into further and I will check out the 1911 scottish census and see if I can get any further info from that. I'll get back to you if there is.
Thanks again Steven
-
Tithe Applotments:
Robert Greenwood in Lislasley, Loughgall
I don’t see any other Greenwoods in the area and I also don’t see any Barrs.
Griffiths Valuations:
Thomas Barr, Village of Loughgall – living in the villiage, there’s a good chance he was a tradesman or merchant who might show up in directories? No other Barrs in the area.
John Greenwood, Ballymagerny, Loughgall
John Greenwood, Lislasley, Loughgall
Elizabeth Greenwood, Lislasley, Loughgall
Thomas Greenwood, Derryscollop, Clonfeacle
Isaac Greenwood, Edenderry, Seagoe
There are some digitized Parliamentary Papers on the web that include some gunpowder sales records. David Greenwood from Kinnego bought gunpowder for shooting birds on 20 Jan 1835 in Moy. Kinnego borders Lislasley.
-
Some other Greenwoods I think link back to the Loughgall area:
Thomas Greenwood m. Eliza Murray
14 Feb 1850, Armagh registration district
Likely the Thomas Greenwood who lived in Derryscollop – lots of Murrays around there.
John Greenwood m. Esther Hatton/Hatten/Hattan
17 Sep 1845, Loughgall
This is the John Greenwood in Lislasley on Griffiths. Records for some of their children in Ontario and others as part of an immigration cluster in Ware, Massachusetts that includes many families from the Charlemont area.
Ann Greenwood, d/o Joseph m. James White, s/o Thomas
9 Dec 1852, Loughgall
This family had several children in Armagh before settling in Ontario. Ann Greenwood White’s death registration names her mother as Elizabeth Smith.
Rachel Greenwood, d/o Joseph m. Thomas Greenwood, s/o John
22 Oct 1867, Belfast
The marriage was in Belfast but I think this family could be very relevant. The birth of their first child was registered in Loughgall suggesting ties to the area and then they moved to Ontario. Thomas Greenwood’s birth date of 5 Nov 1846 makes him possibly the eldest child of John Greenwood and Esther Hatton of Lislasley. If John Greenwood named his eldest son Thomas then there’s a very good chance that his father was named Thomas and he could have been a brother of your Joseph. Rachel Greenwood was probably some sort of cousin of her husband’s and that opens up many research possibilities!
The above Greenwoods who went to Ontario were closely clustered in the Garafraxa area. I took a look for other Irish Greenwoods in this area and found an Elizabeth Greenwood born in Ireland around 1843 who married an Irish-born Joseph Hall. Her death registration lists her parents as Joseph Greenwood and Elizabeth O’Connell. I also found a James Greenwood born in Ireland around 1831 whose death registration lists his parents as Joseph Greenwood and Elizabeth McConnell. James and Elizabeth Greenwood settled in the same place so I’m guessing they were siblings despite the variation in their mother’s name. James Greenwood married Mary Geffs who was born in Canada but her parents were married in Loughgall. I believe that her father was a blood relation of mine and I’ve researched her before which explains why Greenwood seemed familiar when I saw it here:)
-
I've been going through Chelsea Pensioners' records for soldiers from Clonfeacle and Loughgall and remembered this thread when I found a Greenwood.
Samuel Greenwood served from 1802 - 1816. His discharge record says he was about 35 so he was born about 1780. The most significant thing is that it says that he was born in Loughgall Parish in or near the town of Charlemont. That fits your family's geography exactly and places them there much earlier than Tithe Applotments.
Samuel Greenwood's trade was Carpenter and it says he was 5 feet 9.5 inches with light brown hair, blue eyes, and a fresh complexion.
-
Hi all, I'm new to this forum, so please feel free to point me in the right directions!
I am trying to trace Eliza Greenwood from Tyrone (I know this is for Armagh, but I had conflicting research to suggest she was from Armagh).
Eliza born 1833 to parents William Greenwood and Anne Smith.
Eliza was sent to Australia on the Earl Grey in 1848. The history after her arrival seems easy enough to find, but going back to find out where her family came from and what happened to them is proving difficult.
Any help would be appreciated!
-
Hi ozirishmum,
The Earl Grey was the first ship to sail taking girls from Irish workhouses to Australia between 1848 and 1850. See http://www.irishfaminememorial.org/en/orphans/ships/
Both her parents are shown as dead and the report states that she cane from Moy on the Tyrone/Armagh border. The great Irish famine took place between 1845 and 1850 so her parents may have died of hunger or, more likely, from one of the diseases associated with the famine.
Regards
-
The townlands discussed earlier are all in Armagh but they could be considered "Moy". I've often seen people from these townlands say they were from Moy on records like passenger lists or military enlistment. I'm sure this is your family.
You may not be able to positively identify more family members but you can learn about the place and it's history. Note the earlier record of a marriage between Joseph Greenwood and Elizabeth Smith. Smith wasn't all that common in the area so good chance of being the same family. That Joseph Greenwood lived in Lislasley and there were Smiths in the neighbouring townland of Aghinlig.
-
Birth Cert for David b. 16 Apr 1863 states parents marriage - 1854 November 10th, Loughgall, Co. of Armagh, Ireland
Birth Cert for Joseph b. 9 Dec 1872 states parents marriage - 1854 November 9th, Loughgall, Co. Armagh, Ireland
Birth Cert for Isabella b. 26 Sep 1877 states parents marriage - 1854 November 11th, Parish of Loughgall, Ireland
I am from Scotland and I am not sure how to go about viewing on-line or getting copies of Northern Irish certificates
I don't know how I missed it earlier but I was just doing some Greenaway research and spotted this on familysearch:
9 Nov 1854, Loughgall
Joseph GREENAWAY s/o Thomas married Isabella DUNBAR d/o John.
The full certificate will have residences, occupations and witnesses so you should definitely get it since it's obviously the right one.
Now Greenaway in Armagh is a whole other story...
-
Hi,
New to the forum. My direct ancestors were ancestors of Thomas Greenaway and Sarah Elliot. Their Son Joseph Greenaway (Greenwood) married to Isabella Dunbar ( Barr).
Can I ask where you are doing your search for Greenaway? Where do you get the certificate from ansimi?
-
Hi raidersrule, I don't have that Greenaway/Greenwood-Dunbar/Barr certificate. I just found it indexed on familysearch.org while looking at Greenaways and knew it was the Greenwood family of this topic.
Greenaway was a much more common name than Greenwood in that area. My extended family actually has both Greenaway and Greenwood connections.
-
Hi,
Really interesting information on this thread. Thank you.
My ancestors are Thomas Greenwood and Sarah Elliot. Has anyone managed to find anything about Thomas or Sarah’s mothers and fathers? I’m really stuck !!!!