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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: RobinClay on Friday 02 March 12 19:51 GMT (UK)
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Your assistance, please, with transcribing the Will of Admiral Arthur Phillip (go on, Google him !)
I shall post a succession of images, so, to keep them all together, please restrain yourselves from posting replies until I give the word !
Arthur
Phillip
Esquire
an Admiral of
the Blue in
His Majesty's
Navy
32
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Here's the rest of that page, Lines 1 to 7.
O.K. - please have a go at these lines. Please retain the line breaks and line numbering.
1 This is the last Will and testament of me
2 Arthur Phillip now of Bath in the county of Somerset Vice Admiral in
3 His Majesty's Navy I do direct that all my just debts funeral and testamentary
4 expensesbe fully paid and satisfied by my exors hereinafter named as soon
5 as conveniently may be after .... I give and bequeath unto my dear
6 wife Isabella Phillip the sum of six hundred pounds .... four ........
7 .....to be handed over to her by my Exors immediately after my .....
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Here are Lines 8 to 15.
Please have a go at these lines. Please retain the line breaks and line numbering.
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Here's 1-7. I'll leave the next bit for the pleasure of someone else. :D
1 This is the last Will and Testament of me
2 Arthur Phillip now of Bath in the county of Somerset Vice Admiral in
3 His Majesty's Navy I do direct that all my just debts funeral and testamentary
4 expenses be fully paid and satisfied by my ex[ecut]ors hereinafter named as soon
5 as conveniently may be after my decease I give and bequeath unto my dear
6 Wife Isabella Phillip the Sum of Six hundred Pounds Stock four percent
7 Annuities to be transferred to her by my Exors immediately after my decease
added: sorry, I didn't realise that you had added almost all of this to your post after
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Thank you ! You're better at it than I am ;-) That's why I posted it !
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Can't figure out the last word, sorry.
8. for her own use and benefit and I mean the same to cover and be accepted
9. by her in discharge of a legacy of two hundred and fifty pounds Navy
10. five per cents which was left to her by our friend Captain Nun but
11. which was afterwards sold out by me and invested in my name in
12. the four per cent Annuities I also give unto my said wife all my linen
13. china stock of wines liquors horses carriages and harness also all such books
14. as were Mr Whiteheads and also all such jewels watches rings
15. (except my brazil diamond ring left me by the late Charles Duncorube????
vv.
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The last word is 'Duncombe'
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Lines 15 to 20:-
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15. (except my brazil diamond ring left me by the late Charles Duncombe
16. Esquire) trinkets and other ornaments of her dress and paraphernalia as
17. shall be in her possession at the time of my decease for her own
18. absolute use and benefit forever and the above mentioned Brazil
19. Diamond I give and bequeath unto my said wife to be enjoyed by her during
20. her life and after her death I give and bequeath the same to Lady
vv.
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wow thank you very much guys!!
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Lines 20-25:-
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Hi Robin,
20 her life and after her death I give and bequeath the same to Lady
21 Nepean Wife of Sir Evan Nepean Bar[one]t if she shall be then living but
22 if she shall be then dead then I give the same to her daughter Miss
23 Harriot Nepean And if the said Lady Nepean and her said daughter
24 shall be both dead at the deceased of my said Wife then I give the same
25 to the said Sir Evan Nepean Also I give to my said Wife the art and
Alexander :)
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Thank you - I confess you do have a knack I don't have.... acksherley.... it's experience, ennit !
Here are lines 25-30
These I have posted on behalf of Johnny Sykes, a descendant, who (I hope!) will post the rest, for "it's nothing to do with me" ;-)
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25 to the said Sir Evan Nepean Also I give to my said wife the use and
26 enjoyment during her natural life of all my household Goods and
27 furniture books (except what I have above bequeathed to her) prints
28 and pictures (except my drawings made in New South Wales which I
29 direct to be sold by my exors immediately after my decease) Also I give
30 and bequeath to my said Wife the use and enjoyment during her natural life
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11. which was afterwards sold out by me and invested in my name in
A very minor point, but I think it's reinvested, rather than just invested!
Mike
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30- 40 :)
Thanks guys
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40-50
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50-64
Thank you once again guys, i am terrible and deciphering wills!
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31 of all my plate and after her decease I give the following Articles to her
32 nephew Newton Shaw Esquire in case he shall survive her his
33 ex[ecuto]rs adm[inistrat]ors and assigns for his and their own use (viz) my largest oval
34 Waiter weighing about one hundred and fourteen Ounces a large cup
35 weighing about twenty seven Ounces A tea urn weighing about one
36 hundred and three Ounces A coffee urn weighing about forty ounces a
37 Soup tureen cover and ladle weighing about ninety nine ounces a bread
38 basket weighing about thirty four Ounces a Pair of Salt Cellars weighing
39 about three ounces A teapot weighing about fourteen ounces A cream
40 jug weighing about four Ounces And I do direct that all the residue of my
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41. estate together with such other property as is hereby bequeathed
42. during the life of my dear wife as aforesaid shall immediately after
43. her decease be considered as part of my residuary estate Also I give to my
44. Executors hereinafter named the sum of twenty Pounds of lawful money
45. of Great Britain apiece for a ring as a remembrance Also I give and
46. bequeath unto Robert Dove the Elder Robert Dove the Younger
47. Elizabeth Harris Thomas Dove Mary Ann Lancefield Michael Dove
48. William Dove Susan Dove Ann Dove Rebecca Potter Luke Ashton
49. Mrs Susannah Richardson Mrs Elianor Lane Harriet Lane her
50. daughter and Miss Rule hereinafter particularly severally described the sum of to
vv.
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51. Pounds each for mourning And i give to my cousin the said Luke Ashton
52. of Salters Hall one Annuity or yearly sum of fifty pounds for and during
53. the term of his natural life which said Annuity I direct to be paid on
54. the following four most usual feast days or times of payment of rent in the year
55. that is to say the twenty fifth day of March the twenty fourth day of
56. June the twenty ninth day of September and the twenty fifth day of
57. December in every year by equal payments free of all charges and
58. deductions whatsoever the first payment to begin and be made on such of
59. the said days as shall first and next happen afetr my decease and
60. subject to the payment of the aforesaid Annuity and legacies I give devise
61. and bequeath all that my leasehold messuage or dwellinghouse with
62. the fixtures and Appurtenances therento belonging situate No. 19 in
63. Bennett Street in the City of Bath and all and every other my messuages
64. lands tenements and hereditaments and real and personal estate whatsoever
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40 jug weighing about four Ounces And I do direct that all the residue of my
41. estate together with such other property as is hereby bequeathed
I think the first word on line 41 is Plate again - i.e. all the plate not specifically willed to his nephew. (If it were "residue of my estate", there would surely be no "such other property" left over for it to go together with!)
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Ah thank you mgf, 'Plate' is correct.
I am so accustomed to seeing the phrase 'residue of my estate' that I carelessly
typed 'estate' without reading the line properly. :-[
vv.
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65-75
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65 (except such part thereof as I have otherwise disposed of by this my Will)
66 unto my Wife Isabella Phillip and my good friends John Lane of Nicholas
67 Lane in the city of London merchant Osborn Standert late of the Navy
68 Office London Esquire Thomas Sutton of the parish of Bachwich in the said
69 County of Somerset Esquire and Mr James Potter of Maidstone who married
70 the daughter of my cousin Woodgate their heirs exors Admons and assigns
71 Upon trust nevertheless that they the Isabella Phillip John Lane
72 Osborn Standert Thomas Sutton and James Potter and the Survivors and
73 Survivor of them and the heirs executors Admons and assigns of such
74 Survivor so said shall Permit and suffer my said Wife Isabella Phillip
75 and her assigns to take and receive the rents interest issues and profits
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Bachwich in Somerset ?
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Bachwich in Somerset ?
Okay, try Bathwick.
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Thanks for deciphering!!! :D
75-85
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Hi,
75 and her assigns to take and receive the rents interest issues and profits
76 of my said real and Personal estate respectively for and during the
77 term of her natural life And from and after the decease of my said wife
78 I give and bequeath the several legacies hereinafter mentioned that is
79 to say I give and bequeath to the above named Osborn Standert Thomas
80 Sutton and James Potter the sum of two thousand Pounds of lawful money
81 of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland current in Great
82 Britain Upon trust that they the said Osborn Standert Thomas Sutton
83 and James Potter and the Survivors and Survivor of them and the exors
84 and Admors of such Survivor do and shall put place and continue
85 the same out at Interest in their or his names or name either on
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85-95
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85 the same out at Interest in their or his names or name either on
86 Government Security or funds of Great Britain or upon such other good
87 security or securities as they or he shall think proper And shall and
88 do stand and be possessed of and interested in the said Principal Sum of
90 two thousand Pounds and the Stocks funds and securities wherein the
91 same shall be placed out or invested upon the several trusts and to
92 And for the several ends interests and purposes hereinafter mentioned
93 expressed and declared of and concerning the same that is to say In trust
94 to pay the net dividends and annual proceeds thereof from time to time
95 when and as the same shall become due and be by them received unto
What did poor number 89 do to hurt you? ;)
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It wasn't just Number 89 that got lost...
As I was saying....
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There was a legendary columnist on the Daily Mirror, Sir William Connor, who was far better known by his pen name of Cassandra. He was on the Mirror in the 1930s and then went off to war for his country. When he returned six years later, he famously began his column with the words: "As I was saying when I was so rudely interrupted...".
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Thank you for your endeavours !
Here's the next, 95-105 -
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I have done the section posted, but it seems me that - given the significance to history of AP - surely his will must be transcribed somewhere on the internet?
Have you searched recently?
...the said John Lane and his assigns for and during his natural life
and from and immediately after his decease then In trust to pay the
net interest dividends and annual proceeds thereof unto Mrs Eleanor
Lane wife of the said John Lane and her assigns for and during her
natural life And from and immediately after the decease of the Survivor
of them the said John Lane and Eleanor his wife In trust that they
my said trustees and the Survivors and Survivor of them and the
[ex(ecut)ors?] and ad(ministrat)ors of such Survivor shall and do pay assign transfer
and dispose of the said principal sum of two thousand pounds and
the Stocks funds and Securities wherein the same shall then happen to...
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Thank you for that effort.
And, Yes, I did ask my friend Google, and Guess what ? THIS Site is the one he came up with ! ;-)
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I have done the section posted
I wonder if you would mind being so kind as to "Modify" your post to add the line numbers for reference, please ?
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I have done the section posted
I wonder if you would mind being so kind as to "Modify" your post to add the line numbers for reference, please ?
The section Horselydown has done starts at line 96 on your post, line 95 having been done in the section before.
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And, Yes, I did ask my friend Google, and Guess what ? THIS Site is the one he came up with ! ;-)
I tried that too.
The entry for Admiral Arthur Phillip on wikipedia says there is a transcript of his will - and the link takes you back to this post here on Rootschat!
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Next bit:
Line 105 has been done on the last section.
106 be invested unto Harriett Lane daughter of the said John Lane and
107 Eleanor his wife her exors admons and assigns to and for her and their
108 own use and benefit absolutely and for ever Also I give and bequeath to
109 my cousin the said Robert Dove the Elder of Woolwich in the county
110 of Kent son of Mrs Mary Woodgate deceased, if living at the time
111 of the decease of my said wife the sum of two hundred pounds of lawful
112 british money and to Robert Dove the Younger Elizabeth the wife of
113 [ blank ] Harris late Elizabeth Dove Spinster Thomas Dove &
114 Mary Ann the wife of [ blank ] Lancefield late Mary Ann Dove &
It looks as if they were going to look up the missing names and then fill them in afterwards - never happened.
I'm not terribly happy with 'Lancefield' - difficult to make out the letters between 'La' and 'efield'
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Thank you, Goldie61. I guess at some time, maybe some geek OOPS ! I mean aficionado ! - will investigate those names and produce a family tree ! ;-)
If you go to Wikipedia and click on "View History", you will see that it was me who added the Link to here ;-)
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So familysearch is showing a marriage of Mary Ann Dove 1811 to Thomas Lancefield at St Margaret's, Rochester Kent. I don't know why it isn't showing an exact date. Under 'English Marriages 1538 - 1973'.
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115 Spinster Michael Dove Susan Dove and Ann Dove sons and daughters of
116 the said Robert Dove the Elder if living at such * the decease of my said
117 wife the sum of five hundred pounds apiece of like money Provided
118 always and my will and mind is that in case the said Elizabeth the wife
119 of the said [ blank ] Harris shall live to become entitled to the said
120 legacy of five hunred pounds and her said husband shall be then
121 living then that my Executors shall retain and stand possessed of the
122 said legacy or sum of five hundred Pounds In trust for the sole and
* I suspect the scribe has missed out something a word or two here - possibly 'time after'?
Sounds as if he didn't think much of Elizabeth's husband - whoever he was! :)
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If you go to Wikipedia and click on "View History", you will see that it was me who added the Link to here ;-)
I thought that might have been the case! :)
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Again, familysearch has a marriage of ELizabeth Dove to a Thomas Harris 13th Feb 1804 at St Paul's, Deptford, Kent. Same set of marriages.
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Well done !
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For those who do not know, all is revealed below. Admiral Philip (as Captain) was in command of the First Fleet of settlers to New South Wales (2 warships and 9 transports). He founded Sydney. He's buried at St Nicholas, Bathampton, near Bath, Somerset. Evan Nepean is mentioned in his Will.
http://bath-heritage.co.uk/phillip_tomb.html.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Nepean.
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The bottom line of the very first image I posted I transcribed as "32" - is that correct ? And I wonder what the significance is...
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Part of the last image on page 5. All I have time for tonight I'm afraid.
123 ...separate use of her the said Elizabeth Harris exclusively of her said husband
124 and not to be subject or liable to the debts intermeddling or controul of her said
125 husband Also I give and bequeath to Mrs Susannah Richardson
126 Grandaughter of my late uncle Pagester and wife of Captain George
127 Richardson of the Hon(ora)ble East India Companys Service and to Mrs
128 Rebecca Ann Potter wife of the said James Potter if living at such the
129 decease of my said wife the like Sum of five hundred pounds apiece of...
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following on from Horselydown:
130 like money And (subject as well to the said last mentioned legacies as also
131 to the said Annuity hereinbefore given in case the said Annuitant shall
132 be then living I do from and immediately after such the decease of my said
133 wife give devise and bequeath all my said real and personal estate unto
134 and to the use of the above named Susannah Richardson Mary Ann the
135 wife of the said [ blank ] Lancefield Michael Dove and Robecca Ann
136 Potter or such of them as shall be living at the decease of my said wife
137 to hold to them or such of them as shall be living as such the decease
138 of my said wife their respective heirs exors admons and assigns x x
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Thank you both ! I really don't know HOW you do it !
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139 respectively forever in equal shares and proportions as tenants in
140 common and not as joint tenants Provided Always and my will is
141 that in case the said Rebecca Ann Potter shall not live to become
142 intitled to the said legacy and share of my said residuary estate then and
143 in such case I give to her husband the said James Potter the sum of
144 five hundred pounds if he shall survive and outlive my said wife and
145 do hereby charge my said residuary estate with the payment thereof
146 And whereas I have caused the sum of eight thousand pounds per
148 cent Old South Sea Annuities to be transfered into the names of myself
149 and the said John Lane and Osborne Standert In trust after my decease
150 in case my said wife Isabella should survive me to pay to her the
151 dividends thereof amounting to two hundred and fifty pounds a Year
152 during her life in satisfaction of a bond I executed to her previous to
153 my marriage conditioned for securing the like Annuity to her for her
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Thank you !
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Please post no more than 8 to 10 lines at a time. This image is 17 lines, which is too time-consuming.
154 ...life if she should survive me Now I declare that the provision
155 made by such investment was made to assure my said wife of having
156 some certain provision at my decease And I further declare that I
157 do not intend the same to lessen the provisions which I have made
158 for her in this my will as I consider such provisions greater than
159 the said yearly Sum of two hundred and fifty pounds therefore it is
160 my intention that she shall receive the interest and dividends of the
161 said Eight thousand three hundred and thirty three pounds six shillings
162 and eight pence Old South Sea Annuities during her natural life as part
163 of the yearly produce of the residue of my estate along with the rest of
164 the produce thereof and that the said eight thousand three hundred
165 and thirty three pounds six shillings and eight pence three percent old
166 South Sea Annuities shall after the decease of my said wife be
167 considered as part of the residue of my personal estate and go as the
168 Same is hereinbefore disposed of Provided always and I do hereby
169 direct that the trustees for the time being of my said Estate shall from
170 time to time reimburse themselves and himself all such reasonable...
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Thank you. My apologies for that one being so long.
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171 costs and charges as they shall be at in or about the Execution of the
172 trusts of this my will and that they shall not be answerable for any
173 loss or accident that shall or may happen without their respective wilful
174 neglects neither shall they nor any of them be answerable for the acts
175 receipts neglects or defaults of the others or other of them or for any banker
176 broker or agent or other person employed by them or either of them in the
177 execution of the trusts of this my will but each of them shall be answerable
178 only for his own Acts receipts and defaults and in case any of my said
179 trustees or any other trustee to be appointed as hereinafter mentioned shall
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Bravo !
I'm VERY impressed !
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First ten lines of the last image:
180 ...happen to die be rendered incapable or shall decline to act in the
181 execution of the trusts of this my will then and in every such case I do
182 direct that it shall and may be lawful to and for the surviving and
183 continuing trustees or trustee with the consent of my said wife during her
184 life and after her decease then of their or his own Authority to appoint
185 such person or persons as they shall think fit to be a trustee or trustees
186 in the place and Stead of the person or persons [remainder of line crossed out]
187 [crossed out]
188 happening to die being rendered incapable or declining to act in the said
189 trusts and that upon every such appointment all such Acts deeds matters...
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190 and things shall be executed and preformed as shall be necessary for
191 the effectually vesting the said trust estate and premises in such ?
192 trustee or trustees together with the surviving or continuing trustee or
193 trustees upon such and the same trusts as ^ are ^ herein before declared or such
194 of them as shall be then capable of taking effect And I hereby nominate
195 and appoint my said wife Isabella Philips the said John Lane Osborne
196 Standert Thomas Sutton and James Potter Executors of this my will
197 And lastly I hereby revoke all former and other wills by me made and
Writing's getting worse! :-\
Nearly there! :)
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The word missing from the end of line 191 is: new
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Thanks HD. :)
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Thank you !
And I'll bet you were glad to see that word "lastly" in the bottom line !
Well - here it is, the last tranche !
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198 do declare this only to be my last Will and Testament In Witness whereof
199 I have to this my last Will and Testament contained in four sheets of paper
200 set my hand and seal vix to the three first sheets thereof my hand only
201 and to this fourth and last sheet my hand and seal this twentieth day
202 of May in the year of Our Lord One thousand eight hundred and fourteen
203 A Phillip O signed sealed published and declared by the above
204 named Arthur Phillip the testator as and for his last will and
205 Testament in the presence of us who in his presence at his request and
206 in the presence of each other have subscribed our names as witnesses
207 thereto as also a duplicate thereof Henr Mant Sol: Bath
208 Wm Hodges Henr David Haverfield Clerks to Mr(?) Brant (?)
209 Proved at London 14th October 1814 before the judge by the oath of
210 Isabella Phillip widow the Relict John Lane Osborne (in the will
211 written Osborn) Standert and James Potter four of the Exors to whom
212 Admon was granted being first sworn duly to admi(nister) Power reserved to
213 Thomas Sutton Esq the other
I would have thought the Latin term to be 'viz', but certainly looks like 'vix' here.
The 'seal' after his signing looks like an H inside it? Not his actual signature.
This is a copy (did it come from the PCC?). If you dig around in the information given about the wills there, there should be the original with the actual signatures and seal on.
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The 'seal' after his signing looks like an H inside it? Not his actual signature.
We have discussed before on this board a similar circle surrounding the letters L.S., which appears on some PCC wills in about the same place. (Locus Sigilli = place of the seal.)
I suspect this H is for Hand and indicates he signed the original of the will in his own hand.
I'm pretty sure the end of the witness section is: ...Clerks to Mr: Mant
There are some Ms in the smaller image on page 5.
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This has been an interesting thread and a great effort by all transcribers. :)
Robin, may I ask if you are a descendant of Arthur Phillip? If not, what are your plans for the transcription of the will?
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I'm pretty sure the end of the witness section is: ...Clerks to Mr: Mant
There are some Ms in the smaller image on page 5.
And it's just dawned on me one of the witnesses is Henry Mant (in the line above).
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This has been an interesting thread and a great effort by all transcribers. :)
Robin, may I ask if you are a descendant of Arthur Phillip? If not, what are your plans for the transcription of the will?
Yes.
You may ask.
I'm not.
... so I googled our Admiral, and discovered that the Museum of New South Wales has an "interest" in him.
So here's what I wrote on their Contact Us form :-
###################################
The Last Will & Testament of Admiral Arthur Phillip
http://archival.sl.nsw.gov.au/Details/archive/110315657
is being transcribed at
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=584967.0
If you would give me a proper e-mail address, when it's complete I can send you a WORD document or .PDF.
###################################
and I received a nice reply :-
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Please send the transcription to my email address [redacted] in WORD format. Im informed that we can then get it 'ingested' and linked to our catalogue record. Thank you for offering this valuable addition to our holdings.
Kind regards,
Colin
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... to which I replied:-
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
I happened to come across a folder in remote recess of a backup !
So I did a Google search, and found that I had started to put it up at that rootschat WebSite on: 2 March 2012 !
I seem to recall I received the original scans from one Johnny Sykes, a descendant of the Admiral, now living in the UK.
That was three computers ago, and three changes of e-mail programs, so NOW, I am afraid I cannot track those originals, nor the original e-mails, nor his address. But he was “active” on that WebSite six weeks ago under the name “genealogistsykes “.
I had sent him my files, which he then put up on that WebSite for a while, then he (& I !) went to sleep….
When I re-discovered this, I put up the rest, tranche by tranche, and have now done them all.
I don’t seem to have those original files, but I cut them up into small chunks and numbered each line, and these chunks I posted on that WebSite, whose members have now transcribed it all.
So if you want those, you can fetch them from there. Also the texts, of course.
I attach the transcription as a WORD document, also with comments at the end, and the snippets. If you would like the “full page” version, they are BIG .bmps, so I can send them one at a time if you want.
Do whatever you want with it all – I am only a “facilitator” !
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
... and I am now bound to thank you all for that valuable transcription work, and also for your useful comments.
Thank you all, for a job well done !
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That's wonderful Robin! A very worthwhile project, and for those who transcribed, a rewarding outcome I would think.
You would expect the will to have been transcribed before but it is surprising that it is not obviously available anywhere.
Excellent. ;D
PS. Maybe keep an eye on what the Museum does with the transcription - if they publish it the rootschat founders Sarah and Trystan may be interested to include it in their "rootschat CV". :)
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.
So here's what I wrote on their Contact Us form :-
###################################
The Last Will & Testament of Admiral Arthur Phillip
http://archival.sl.nsw.gov.au/Details/archive/110315657
is being transcribed at
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=584967.0
If you would give me a proper e-mail address, when it's complete I can send you a WORD document or .PDF.
###################################
and I received a nice reply :-
---------------------------------------------------------
Please send the transcription to my email address [redacted] in WORD format. Im informed that we can then get it 'ingested' and linked to our catalogue record. Thank you for offering this valuable addition to our holdings.
Kind regards,
Colin
--------------------------------------------------
... to which I replied:-
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
I happened to come across a folder in remote recess of a backup !
So I did a Google search, and found that I had started to put it up at that rootschat WebSite on: 2 March 2012 !
I seem to recall I received the original scans from one Johnny Sykes, a descendant of the Admiral, now living in the UK.
That was three computers ago, and three changes of e-mail programs, so NOW, I am afraid I cannot track those originals, nor the original e-mails, nor his address. But he was “active” on that WebSite six weeks ago under the name “genealogistsykes “.
I had sent him my files, which he then put up on that WebSite for a while, then he (& I !) went to sleep….
When I re-discovered this, I put up the rest, tranche by tranche, and have now done them all.
I don’t seem to have those original files, but I cut them up into small chunks and numbered each line, and these chunks I posted on that WebSite, whose members have now transcribed it all.
So if you want those, you can fetch them from there. Also the texts, of course.
I attach the transcription as a WORD document, also with comments at the end, and the snippets. If you would like the “full page” version, they are BIG .bmps, so I can send them one at a time if you want.
Do whatever you want with it all – I am only a “facilitator” !
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
That's all very interesting Robin.
A new memorial to him in 2014 in Westminster Abbey, which Price Philip attended evidently!
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/.../ 4421aa6fd85bd7580407134858df6560
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-10/memorial-stone-to-admiral-arthur-philip-at-westminster-abbey/5587082
Wow! "Founder of modern Australia" no less!
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Here's a picture of him from wikipedia.
Always nice to put a face to a name. :)
Looks a bit worried don't you think? ;)
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Oh...
Dear !
I have just discovered - what I should have remembered - this RootsChat "rule" -
------------------------------------------------
Please note that a transcription by somebody else is their own work, which you cannot copy unless they have given their permission.
------------------------------------------------
So I suppose I should ask all you brilliant transcribers if you would be so kind as to accept that you don't mind that I have passed your work on to the NSW Museum - and to the wider world, I guess !
If you''re not happy with that, well ... mea culpa - I can only apologise.
I suggest perhaps that you send an e-mail through the form at
https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/research-and-collections-ask-librarian/ask-librarian-request?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sl.nsw.gov.au%2Fcontact-us
Maybe something along these lines ? [I am not a lawyer !];-
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For the attention of Colin Warner, please.
Robin Clay has sent you the transcription of the Will of Arthur Phillips.
For your information, I was one of the transcribers, and have the Copyright of my work, which I am pleased to transfer to you, on the understanding that
a) the work be "in the Public Domain", and
b) my work is acknowledged collectively in a form such as this
"This transcription was performed pro bono by these members of the RootsChat Group, [names] who have kindly transferred their Copyright to us.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=584967.0"
My nom de Plume is ????
but my real name is ????
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I hope that covers it - feel free to do whatever you think best...
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Can't be bothered with an email, Robin.
I hereby give permission for you to send my portions of the transcript to the NSW Museum and for the NSW Museum to do with them whatsoever they wish.
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Bit busy the next few days Robin.
Will get back to you.
I see most of the original transcribers have not been active on here for several years:
'Veeblemort" since Jan 2016
'Koromo' since May 2015
'mgf' since May 2015
They did the transcribing to start with for genealogistsykes back in 2012.Be hard to track them down now.
'Alexander' is the only one still active, and they haven't contributed since the beginning days - perhaps they didn't know the thread had been re-opened.
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If it is a rootschat rule, and the rootschat transcribers have willingly transcribed and understand where their transcription is ending up and have given you permission to do whatever you want with it, why is it necessary to send emails to Colin Warner? :-\
I wouldn’t worry too much about it - I think you’ll be safe without formal written permission. :)
....and, if the NSW museum have a link to this thread they can read the transcriber’s comments for themselves. ;)
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I have been watching this thread with great interest.
Was a little thrown by the title of Admiral Arthur Phillip at first as he is always known in Australia as Governor Arthur Phillip - but of course he was an Admiral too.
No wonder NSW museum is interested! He was our first governor when Australia was 'settled' by the convicts and marines et al.
Wiggy
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I have been watching this thread with great interest.
Was a little thrown by the title of Admiral Arthur Phillip at first as he is always known in Australia as Governor Arthur Phillip - but of course he was an Admiral too.
No wonder NSW museum is interested! He was our first governor when Australia was 'settled' by the convicts and marines et al.
Wiggy
Haha Wiggy. I thought he was referred to as Captain Arthur Phillip. :)
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Justr realised that this thread was resurrected a few days ago from 2012 when it was first started. :D
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Curiously... one is only a Governor while one is still governing; once one stops that occupation, one ceases to be one.
Whereas the Queen's Commission (or King's) is for life (unless removed !).
So he WAS "Governor Phillips" for a while, but not after he left; but after he was appointed Admiral, he was always "Admiral Phillips" thereafter. Which he was when he wrote his Will. And when he died.
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;) ;) Not disputing that :)
- just that 'we' know him as Governor 'cos we 'know' him when he was here! :D
Very interesting anyway!
Wiggy
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Colin Warner of the N.S.W. Museum wants to do the right thing, and give credit where it is due.
He has written:-
Can you send me a list of names of the members of the RootsChat Group who made the transcription please?
Well, obviously, I can't !
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I wonder if referring him to this thread would suffice? :-\
Wiggy
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I have done, several times ;-)
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He was a post captain in 1788, when in command of the First Fleet to Australia. Post captain was the rank to reach, because if you lived long enough, you would become Admiral of The Fleet. Lord Nelson would have had to live to 1833 to become Admiral of The Fleet. One of Jane Austens brothers was Admiral of The Fleet by early 1860's (photograph on Google somewhere).
There seems to be some doubt where he's buried. It should be St Nicholas, Bathampton just outside Bath. He suffered from the diet in NSW and went to Bath to 'take the waters'. In the Will, Bathwick is mentioned, perhaps Bathampton was called that then.
Sometime between 2003 and 2006 I visited the churchyard. I can't swear to it, but I think I saw his gravestone. I have no memory of disappointment.
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There's more on Wikipedia - on it I added a Link to here. And I posted a Link to Wikipedia previously; here it is again -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Phillip
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Thank you, I've seen it. I don't recognise the portrait in uniform, rank etc.. Don't seem to be able to find an image as an admiral.
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It's a pity that Arthur Phillips does not appear in that splemdid Magnum Opus, https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Naval_Biographical_Dictionary/Frontispiece
...but that is a biography of every Royal Navy Officer alive in 1849. Our Arthur died in 1814.
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I have now created a WebSite for this topic; it is
http://www.spanglefish.com/admiralarthurphillip
Thank you, all, very much indeed, for all your help so freely given.
It's been fun - *I* have enjoyed it - and I hope you have too !
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I have now created a WebSite for this topic; it is
http://www.spanglefish.com/admiralarthurphillip
A minor quibble on wording. Deciphering is only one section of RootsChat. It is a family history help forum. Can you rephrase it? We don't want readers of your website to get the wrong idea. An unintended consequence might be a deluge of manuscripts. Skilled decipherers on here are few in number; some of the rest of us just have a go in between helping to solve FH queries and doing other stuff. Another consequence may be professional transcribers thinking we are doing them out of work. RootsChatters normally transcribe snippets or a page of a document. Occasionally it's more than one page.
What do others think? Is it a matter for a Moderator?
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Heartily Agree Maiden Stone.
Skilled decipherers on here are few in number; some of the rest of us just have a go in between helping to solve FH queries and doing other stuff.
This website has many other boards, mostly to do with Family History . . and the decipherers don't want to be inundated with long transcriptions!
Wiggy
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May I commend you on that fine Wiki article. I am always interested in how the foundation documents of our Australian Democracy are viewed, reviewed, dissected, re-constructed, analysed, and etc, all from various aspects. I read you cited Cable v Sinclair and the Macquarie University Decisions of the Superior Courts, and you gave the live link to the digital image of that file held at the NSW Archives … so may I side track, just a tad…
On 1 July 1988 I was among those in the public gallery of the NSW Supreme Court for a ceremony led by the then NSW President of the Appeals Court honouring two hundred years since that first civil case, significant for the applicant was a) a female and b) a convicted person, still under the sentence of a civil court.
Michael Kirby, retired Justice of the High Court of Australia is famous in his own right, and has his own website. May I share https://www.michaelkirby.com.au/ click through to Speeches, Go to Volume 19, of 1988, and click on the pdf for Item 738 … it is the Statement by the President on the 200th Anniversary of the First Civil Court Hearing In Australia. Five pages …
Here : https://www.michaelkirby.com.au/images/stories/speeches/1980s/vol19/738-Statement_by_the_President_on_the_200th_Anniversary_of_the_First_Civil_Court_Hearing_in_Aus.pdf
JM
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Heartily Agree Maiden Stone.
Skilled decipherers on here are few in number; some of the rest of us just have a go in between helping to solve FH queries and doing other stuff.
This website has many other boards, mostly to do with Family History . . and the decipherers don't want to be inundated with long transcriptions!
Wiggy
Agree. ;D