RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: RedMystic on Monday 09 April 12 23:41 BST (UK)
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Hi Chatters,
I know it's pretty recent, but my fingers are crossed that someone can help. :)
John Francis Wilson was born 1897 Gillingham, Kent, England; died in London, Ontario in the 1950s - but when in the 1950s is the question?
His estate was settled on his grown child who was in Edinburgh, Scotland. Family memory, therefore, provides the indicators of the death in the 1950s & the London, Ontario location.
He was married to Lizzie "Letta" Inkster Copland (1898-1987). He came to Canada in August 1923, leaving his wife & child - age 4. His 30A form says: married; final destination Winnipeg, Manitoba to work as a harvester; did not intent to return to the UK.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility that he remarried in Canada without the benefit of a divorce, but I have no indication of that. (If you find one, I'd love to know of it. ;))
There is a 1953 death date for a JFW on the FamilySearch site, but it can't be the right fellow as it indicates that he was married in 1921 in Canada (which was before my JFW came to Canada).
I'm not very good at it (admittedly pulling up mostly US deaths ???), but have checked Find A Grave without a discovery. I question whether he would have had a gravestone if there was no one in Canada to remember him. He also died in his 50s. I'm not sure of the cause, but if it was something sudden, one wouldn't think he would have made any pre-arrangements for a monument.
TX in advance for any help on finding the date of his passing.
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This doesn't help with his death, but in case you've not seen this:
1923 Detroit Border Crossing (October 2)
John F. Wilson, born Gillingham, age 26.
Last permanent address was Saskatoon, Sask.
His nearest relative (in Canada) was Mrs. Bessie(?) ?, living in Downsville, Ontario
His occupation: Auto Mechanic
His destination was Detroit, Michigan for 4 months
It looks like he arrived in Canada 6/10/22 ???
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Hi Lisa
That is very interesting. Thank you for giving me something else to look into.
The date of arrival may be explainable if he came in 1922, returned home for a few months, then came again. ??? I'll check with family members to see if that raises any memories.
The border crosssing to the US may explain something else. His b-i-l travelled too the US for 6 weeks in late 1927. The though from two grandchildren is that he likely came looking for John Francis Wilson. I thought it was unlikely as the b-i-l went to New York. With what you've found, the assumption of these family members may be correct. (I know Detroit isn't near NY, but one never knows how long he actually stayed. ;))
The Canadian wife info is interesting. JFW's Scottish wife didn't die until the late 1980s.
Thanks once again for your find.
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Sorry, I think I have a mistake in my post!
I believe his nearest relative was a sister, Mrs. Bessie(?). Surname was possibly Bruce. I will check again. Sorry for omitting critical information.
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Name and complete addess of nearest relative or friend in country whence alien came: Sister, Mrs. Bessie Bruce, Downsville, Ont.
Guessing at the name, as it is blurry.
Again, apologies for not including the relationship.
I'm leaving for work, but I will check back in tonight.
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Hi Lisa
Thank you once again.
I'm heading away for the weekend so won't be able to follow-up on this until my return. I have forwarded the info to this relative's grandson to see if any more bricks fall into place based on the new information.
I'm delighted with your finds. My thanks.
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Hi Lisa
Great find. I've been able to confirm that this is indeed JFW. We didn't know that he had joined family in Canada, but Bessie Bruce is definitely his sister!
Wow! :)
Have a great weekend, Jan
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Hi Lisa,
Can you please tell me where you found this record? ??? I'm looking on *A* to no avail. ::)
Also, I don't know Ontario very well, but my Google maps search may indicate that Downsville should have been penned as Downsview. Thoughts? ???
NOTE: I found the record. :)
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Hi RedMystic:
The record is from the Border Crossings & Passenger and Crew Lists for Detroit, 1905 to 1957.
My apologies again. You are correct, it is Downsview. (I've been getting up around 2:00 a.m. this week, and by Friday morning, the lack of sleep apparently was starting to show.)
Looking at the image again, it looks like JFW was 5'11(?)", Med(?) complexion, and possibly Br hair and Br eyes.
On the bottom of the image is Montreal, 6/10/22, Saturnia(?).
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You mentioned Find A Grave. I don't believe "too many" Canadian headstones have been recorded, to date. You might continue to check, as there's a chance you may eventually find the headstone.
Do you know when and where Bessie passed away? Could he have lived near her?
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Hi Lisa. I'm on the road so can't check. I recall that there is a Bruce tree on A. It has death info for William Laurence Bruce; none for Bethina Elizabeth Bessie Wilson. (I sent them a msg to see if they know anything abt her brother but am not holding my breath as they've not been online for over a yr).
Once I'm back at my desk late Sun I also need to check to see if John came to Canada from Scotland in both 1922 & 1923.
Tx again for your help.
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Hi Lisa
TX again for your help.
I'm wondering if the Detroit border crossing John Wilson is a different fellow from mine. ??? :P There was a John Wilson of approx the right age on the 1922 ship that was noted on the border crossing info, but the manifest says he was Irish.
(I couldn't view the form on my laptop while I was away, so very much appreciated you providing a bit more of it in this thread. :))
Could it be a coincidence that the Detroit border crossing fellow also had a sister named Bessie - same as my JFW - & that my JFW's 30A form from 1923 stated he was going to Manitoba to be a harvester, and the Detroit crossing fellow says his last address was in Saskatchewan. Darn! ??? ::) ;D
There is an available wedding certificate for Bessie Wilson marrying a fellow, surname Bruce, & her parents are the same as those belonging to my JFW. Sooooooo, my thought is that I have the right sister, and the 1923 30A form for JFW is definitely correct. It's an uncertainty that the Detroit crossing is the same fellow.
Back to the drawing board to find this death date.
I've been trying to figure out the Ontario death certificate process. Do I have this correct in that if the death is after 1939, then one has to be able to prove the family connection in order to receive the certificate? If one doesn't know the exact year of the death, is it possible to have the government do the search within a 10 year period?
Many thanks for any additional direction as always. :)
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Hi there.
There is another border crossing for John F Wilson 24 May 1924 ( on *A*). The heading says the crossing was at St Alban's Vermont but the image says Detroit Michigan ( this appears to be a common occurrence on *A*).
John F Wilson 26 Auto Worker going to Detroit Michigan for 4 months. Last perm address Saskatoon Saskatchewan. POB Gillingham Kent. Canadian contact his sister Besse Bruce of Downsview Ont. Detroit is not far from Downsview (Toronto) and it is entirely possible that John could have visited Bessie on his way to Detroit.
I don't see too much of a problem with John starting out in Winnipeg and then ending up in Saskatoon. His first job may not have lasted long or, in fact, not worked out at all so he moved on. The Form 30A certainly seems to point to an auto-related occupation. (Maybe he just said he was willing to work the harvest as a way to get into Canada?)
I think the border crosser is quite likely your man.
You are correct about the death cert process in that you have to meet certain eligibilty requirements due to privacy laws, although I'm not sure if the 1939 index has been publicly released yet (?) ... up to 1938 is though. I don't know the answer to the question about not knowing the exact date.
Polarbear
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Thanks very much polarbear
TX for weighing in! I'll look up that second form. :)
The challenge with the first border crossing into Detroit, 1923 is that all the info aligns except for the ship he came in on and the year he came. It specifies arrival in 1922 & I can't find an arrival for my guy in that year. I can clearly see him on a 30A form arriving on the Megantic in Aug 1923.
However, I'm shifting back to thinking the 1923 Detroit crossing is for the right fellow, just with the wrong arrival data.
I found a travel form in the 29 Apr 1928 for Bessie Bruce returning to Canada with 2 year old daughter, Isabella (she'd been away 4 months). She lived at Russell Farm, Downsview, Ont. I think, like you, that's the same sister.
The death of JFW occurred sometime in the 1950s. Unfortunately, as he ran off never to re-appear on the Scottish side of the pond, the grandchildren don't have anything to prove their lineage. My connection is that he was a great uncle to my husband, so I don't have anything to prove lineage either.
At least it's encouraging to know that he had family in Ontario, so there may have been an obit if I keep digging. Alternatively, I may live long enough to see the 1950s will become a public document. ;) ;D
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Hello again.
Here is a link to the Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid. If you put John F Wilson and Middlesex for the county (London is in this county) in "search" you should get a number of Johns and one John F. The John F is buried, I believe, in Parkhill, which is just outside London. Once you have the info from the search you can follow the link to the "contributing organization" (line below search on the home page) for contact info to get the particulars. A small fee is usually charged.
http://ocfa.islandnet.com//
PB
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Hi,
It looks like the John F Wilson in the Parkhill cemetery died in 1933. There is a photo here
http://cemetery.canadagenweb.org/ON/ONP12755/index8.html
RK
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Oh, too bad. Great find RK!
PB
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Thanks RunKitty & Polarbear.
I had been casting about on the site & was about to ask if there were tanscripts or photos. RunKitty beat me to the post & answered the question.
While we haven't nailed the info, I really appreciate your assistance.