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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: searchr on Friday 13 April 12 07:06 BST (UK)
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Where should I start looking for Martin Collins, possibly s/ Martin Collins & Mary/ Margaret McCarthy b 1853 Kilcommon, Templebeg, Tipperary (see World Connect Project, mattfamilytree database)?
It seems, from searching in Queensland (Qld) Australia historical indexes online, that he is the second husband of my g - grandmother's sister. His wife, m 1881 in Qld, was Eliza Tedford, and her first husband, m 1876 in Qld, was William Fox. Martin, from Qld bdm, seems to have d 1939 Qld, & Eliza 1943 Qld.
I don't know how Martin came to Qld, but Eliza was b here. Her family, William Tedford, Margaret Magee, & their ch Abigail Ann & Mary Margaret, came to Qld on the Ramillies in 1855 e.g. from New South Wales Australia immigration records online image of Reel 2137 of that voyage.
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There is no record of a birth of Martin Collins in Kilcommon Templebeg. The only Martin recorded is in a marriage record. He married Johanna Carew of Rearchurch (not sure what that means) on 09/02/1891 Sp James Ryan and Anne Carew. They had 2 children Edmond B.25/02/1892 Edmond Collins and Bridget Collins and Michael B 13/08/1894 sp John Collins and Susan Carey.
There is no Mary Margaret McCarthy recorded either. The closest is Margaret McCarthy 07/07/1868 to James McCarthy and Sarah Ryan Sp Philip Ryan and Bridge McCormack.
Are you sure it is Kilcommon Templebeg you need? There is another Kilcommon in Tipperary which is in Cahir, South Tipperary. Good luck with your search
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Thanks so much for replying after all this time. I'm not at all sure that it's Kilcommon, Templebeg that I mean. I got the idea from here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CoTipperary/2000-04/0955404841
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By the way, "Mary" McCarthy came from world connect project mattfamilytree. "Margaret" McCarthy came from the Queensland online bmd index of Martin's death, which gives his mother and father. The forward slash was meant to mean "or". Sorry if I wasn't clear. Thanks again for answering.
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How sure are you that these people are really your ancestors. Are they just names from the Internet or do you have concrete proof that they are definitely from your family tree? What information do you have from people you have talked to about where your ancestors came from?
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When I was in Dublin I found the following record from Cahir which was the only relevant ones that I could see. There were no Collins records.
February 7th 1854 Marian McCarthy Parents Johannus McCarthy and Mary Neugent, Kilcommon Sponsors Thomas McCarthy and J Gorman
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Thanks. You'll be amazed, but I think I missed these posts. I'll investigate further now I've found them.
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http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/77/mode/1up
Link to image of Baptism found by Fionaheff (fourth up from end of page 77)
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How good is that! I'm off to work but will look further soon. Thanks so much.
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Hi
I have tried to reply to this 3 times, I hope it goes through this time!
I was looking up Martin Collins of Kilcommon today as he now appears on my own family tree.
I have searched for him in the parishes of Kilcommon, Newport, Cappamore and Doon and he is not in the birth records for 1852, 1853, or 1854.
Martin married Johanna Carey of Reachurch (also known as Coonmore near Kilcommon) at Kilcommon Parish Church on 9th February 1891. They had the following children:
Edmund 1892, John 1893, Michael 1895 Patrick 1892, Bridget 1891, Mary 1900 and Annie in 1901.
The family appear on the Census for 1911 at House 2 Knockshanbrittas, Glengar. On the census Martin is aged 51 so born in 1860. I have searched again for Martin in 1860 in all of the parishes with no success. Very curiously the family don't appear in the 1901 census. Whether the document has been lost I don't know. Only one of the children appears and that is Patrick who is aged 3 and staying with his maternal grandmother Mary Carey.
My relationship with this family is through Martin's wife Johanna. Her paternal grandparents are my great, great, great grandparents.
It is possible that Martin whether born in 1853 or 1860 was in Australia to marry Eliza Tedford in 1881. Did she die soon afterwards so that he was widowed? Did her Martin dissappear for over 20 years to go back to Ireland? Was he a bigamist or just someone else entirely? If you ever find out I would love to know. Wishing you the best of luck with your search, Fiona
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After reading the posts I had a look in the births etc.
They may not have returned their 1901 census information as it would have been listed.
All the children were registered in Tipperary as in Tipperary town.
Looks like they all stayed in Ireland.
What I did see was this record for County Tipperary people going to Australia.
COLLINS Martin 1841 29 Cloghjordan Patrick / Mary xx Protestant {husb of Mary,24.} Ship = Canton
COLLINS Mary 1841 24 Cloghjordan "deceased" xx xx {wife of Martin , 29} Ship = Canton
Looks like 2 Martin Collins, 1 went to Australia and the other stayed in Ireland....no Relation.
Maggsie
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Thanks again.
I agree there could have been 2 Martin Collins.
Martin died in 1939 & Eliza in 1943, both in Qld. They are buried together in Drayton Toowoomba cemetery. They had children in Qld in 1884, 1886, 1889, 1890, 1894 & 1897. His death certificate gives his parents as Martin Collins and his mother as Margaret McCarthy, and his birthplace as Kilcommon, Tipperary, Ireland. It also says he had been 72 years in Qld, so he came to Qld about 1867. He could have come to somewhere else in Australia before that but he is listed as 86y at death, & 28y at their marriage in 1881, so was only born about 1853. Their marriage certificate says again that he was born in Kilcommon, Co. Tipperary, Ireland and had those parents. It also says he was a bachelor. It also says Eliza was a spinster, but it does have a marginal note that she was actually a widow. She had previously been married to William Fox and was married as Eliza Fox.
I wonder who the Martin and Mary were who came to Australia in 1841.
These are the Martin Collins people I've found who came to Qld as assisted immigrants:
Martin 21y on the Rockliff in 1863, with Maurice 24 and Daniel 25 from Plymouth
Martin 11y on the Earl Russell in 1864 with John 39, Margaret 33 (or 13?), Simon 14 (together on list) Patrick 23, & Cornelius 24 & John 22 (together on list) from Plymouth
& Martin 20 & James 20 on Great Britain in 1873 from Liverpool
By the way, there are posts about Martin's sister here:
http://boards.ancestry.com/SearchResults.aspx?db=mb&gss=ancMB&hc=10&rank=0&adv=&p=surnames.ryan&csn=Ryan&cst=board&gskw=collins+kilcommon&psrch=&_F00029CB=&_F00027E2=&period=&_F0002BF1=&_80004003
and
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.collins/5944/mb.ashx
She married 4 times in Qld:
1875 C997 Michael McLauglin Margaret Collins
1878 C183 Margaret McLaughlin Michael Carroll
1887 C556 Margaret Carroll William Hayes
1902 C701 Samuel Muckle Margaret Hayes
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My grandfather was John Collins Kilcommon and he is the John Collins outlined in the family you named.I can update you on all his family members. I am his granddaughter and I never met him as he was older than my grandmother and died before I was born.He lived on the farm at Glencar Kilcommon and this was sold in the 1960 hence there are no Collins in Kilcommon at this time,
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Hi Nicola,
Thanks.
Do you mean the John Collins in the family Fiona named, John b 1893 with parents Martin Collins & Johanna Carey?
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Yes that's the John Collins I was talking about parents Martin Collins and Johanna Carey.
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Oooh!
Good luck to you all, but I seem none the wiser about my Martin.
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Hello
I am currently researching my Great Grandmother Margaret Collins. I have seen other posts here and yes, I cannot find the birth/baptism of Margaret. She came to Australia on the Indus, I think, arriving in Brisbane on 29th Dec 1874. Records show she was 19. Her 1st marriage was 10th Jan 1875 to a Michael McLaughlin and her age at that time showed she was 20.
Her parents were Martin Collins and Margaret McCarthy and her marriage certificate shows both she and her husband were born in Kilcommon Tipperary. Their witnesses were Timothy and Mary O'Neil.
After much searching and reading, I found previous chats on RootsChat to discover there was another Martin Collins and must have been Margaret's brother as he had the same parents and from Kilcommon. I have found his marriage certificate and he was marries to Eliza Fox, a widow, and formerly Tedford. I also have a copy of his death certificate and he is buried in the Toowoomba Cemetery. To think I lived in Toowoomba for many years and did not know any of this! It just means I cannot find anything on either of them in Ireland. I feel Martin came to Australia on the "Great Britain" arriving in Moreton Bay on 1st Jan 1874 as I can see his name on the passenger list for that ship. Naturally there were many Martin Collins who came to Australia so on looking at the ages, the one on the Great Britain seems the most likely one. If anyone can throw more light or ask any questions, that would be great. Thanks Helen
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Hi,
Thanks for replying. I can't investigate too much right at the moment but will get back into it again soon. It's wonderful that someone really is connected to the one I'm connected to.
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Thanks so much. I look forward to hearing from you and in the meantime, i’ll keep searching.
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Thanks again.
Going from the 72 years in Queensland on his death certificate and the ages, I think it must have been him on the Earl Russell in 1864. The father doesn't match though, and was young Margaret still back in Ireland? Maybe the John adult on that was a stepfather, and his father Martin had died. Maybe he's just with an aunt and uncle.
I tried investigating the Simon, because that's such a distinctive name, but didn't get anywhere in Queensland. That was a while ago. I might try again, and look for Simon in Ireland, in Queensland again, and other places in Australia.
Enjoy the puzzle.
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It is a puzzle! I will keep looking of course. There are so many possibilities. I will be in Ireland for a week in April. Not sure of the best place to visit whilst there. Any suggestions?
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Wow!
will have a think
maybe both the Kilcommons?
That might be a question that the Irish people from this thread would be better at answering. I'm in Queensland.
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So am I! On the Sunny Coast.
We are certainly going to Kilcommon. We have to go to Thomastown where my gg grandfather was born. Lots to do.
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Hi,
I've been distracted again. I haven't done any more searching yet.
The Sunny Coast is a lovely part of the world. Enjoy it and your Ireland trip.