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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: carolh7 on Saturday 14 April 12 22:52 BST (UK)
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I'm not very familiar with researching in Scotland, so am wondering if someone can tell me if there are birth records available for the Edinburgh area. I'm looking for the birth records and parents of William Mackenzie born around 1759 and Philip Mackenzie born around 1760 or so.
Thank you for any help you can provide. Carol Harrison
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Hi
Scotlands People is the main website if you haven't found anything on the IGI - Family Search site
It comes under OPR's (Old Parish Registers) and you may want to read what it says about the info available for that period
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&405
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Best to start with the Scottish birth/baptism index on the Family Search site. The actual records are available on the Scotland's People site, but you have to pay to see them. Starting with the Family Search site will tell you whether there are any possibilities. Remember that not every baptism was recorded and not all of the recorded ones survive. Are you sure they were born in Edinburgh or the Lothians? If not, look first for Philip, as that is not such a common name as William, and search the whole of Scotland for possibilities.
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This is from the IGI
WILLIAM MCKENZIE Birth: 20 FEB 1759 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Father: JAMES MCKENZIE Mother: ISOBELL BELL
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
Using the parent search facility does not show a Philip born to this couple. They had a son Kenneth in 1760
There is a submitted IGI entry for Philip but it is unsubstantiated by actual dates
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Thank you so much, CaroleW and GR2, for your helpful suggestions and the actual info. on William. That is certainly a possibility. I have an old bible record that says William is of Edinburgh. He came to the US at the time of the Rev. War and died 25 Feb., 1847, age 88. I believe Philip is his brother, but no actual proof.
Do you think familysearch has all the records that are on the Scotland's people website? If not, I will use that site.
Thanks again, Carol
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Hi
What do you know about Philip - did he also emigrate?
There is no IGI entry for him apart from the submitted entry - I searched all Scotland, not just Midlothian and used a birthyear span 1755-1765
I have used the basic search facility on Scotlands People and there is no birth anywhere between 1750-1770 for a Philip/Phillip MacKenzie/McKenzie
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Thanks again for your help and doing that searching. The story goes--William was on a ship waiting to go to fight against the colonies in the Rev. War. Philip went to say good bye to his brother, Wm, and was taken captive and forced to come also, but when he got here he joined the American forces. This is in rcords of a talk in Topsfield, Essex Co., Massachusetts by a decendant of Philip only he calls Philip, Enoch, but with the same wife and children as Philip. In the Topsfield, Essex Co., Massachusetts records they give info. on Philip's Rev. War service and mention his brother, William. I know this sounds confusing and no proof that the William mentioned is my William. I do have a piece in a county history about a granddaughter of our William that says her grandfather came from Scotland for the purpose of fighting in the Rev. War, was captured and then stayed in America.
So I'm mainly looking for info. on my William, but have always been intrigued by the story and would like to prove they were brothers. Figured if I found them with the same parents that would prove it, but if I can't it's OK.
The William with parents, James and Isobell Bell is a possibility, but William didn't name any of his children, James or Isobell. He had Roderick, William, Polly/Mary, George Leonard and Alexander.
Thanks again. Carol
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Hi
Scotlands People is showing 2 births in Midlothian for a William MacKenzie between 1757-1760 and 2 for William McKenzie - both of which are on the IGI
Nothing for an Enoch between 1755-1765
Do you have documentary proof that William was born in Midlothian
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Hi, thanks so much for the info. No, I don't have documented proof, only the bible info. which of course could be wrong. I have searched on familysearch and can do that further. I was just hoping there would be something in the records in Scotland that might help. I've read the info. on the Scotland's People website about the birth/baptism records. Thanks for searching that website for me, I really appreciate that. Carol
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If he did go out as a soldier and desert, there is always the possibility that there might be something about William lurking in the military records in London.
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Thanks, GR2, that's a good suggestion and I'll follow-up on it. He was with the 71st Reg. of Foot, I believe it's called and there is info. online about it. Don't know if it would include info. on those who deserted, but I'll look. I had never really thought of him as a deserter, but I guess he was if the war was still going on when he was released after being captured.
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Carol
I have writtena book on the 71st Fraser Regt and am working with someone else to sort out the story of William and Phillip McKenzie. I have many original miltary documents. Please contact me
Ed Brumby
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Hi
i posted before but as a newcomer, don't see it. I have written a book on the 71st Fraser Regt., some of them captured at Boston. I am following up on Phillip and William McKenzie with an other lady.
Please contact me or reply to this
Ed
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Hi Ed
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Carolh7 has not been online here on RootsChat since April last year. She should hopefully receive an email notification of new posts on her threads. However, people sometimes can change email providers etc and this can be a problem over time. Hopefully she will be back online soon.
Monica
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Monica
That was kind of you. I see both my replies now. I really would like to contact her. I am very interested in her post, and unfortunately she doesn't give the date of that talk in Topsfield on the William and Phillip McKenzie privates that appear to have been in the 71st Fraser Regt. I hope she hasn't changed her email address
Ed
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Do you think familysearch has all the records that are on the Scotland's people website?
No, it doesn't.
FamilySearch is only an index; it does not contain any original records of births/baptisms, banns/marriages or deaths/burials in Scotland, and the original records on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk often contain additional information.
FamilySearch is a fantastic finding aid, but it is no substitute for looking at the original sources.
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Hi Ed,
Thank you for your reply to my posting. That's wonderful to hear you have written a book on the 71st and that you know about and are researching William and Philip McKenzie. I'm very interested in discussing the McKenzies with you and will gladly share anything I have.
Thank you, Forfarian, for your information also.
Carol Harrison
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Hi Ed,
Thanks to the Topsfield Historical Society, I am in possession of several records relevant to Philip/Enoch and his brother William/Alexander, and then just this morning found these posts from you and Carol. I would love to work with you! Please contact me.
Megan
PS Philip is my 6x great grandfather
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Megan, welcome onboard :)
You need a couple more posts here on the main boards before your Private Message service (PM) is activated on your account. Just post here a couple more times. The PM service is the only way to exchange personal info here on RC such as personal emails etc.
Monica
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Thanks Monica!
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I'm tracking the ancestors of:
William Riley McKenzie (b. 1844 Ohio, d. 1905 Iowa) & Elmira Permilia Vaughn (b. 1847 Ohio, d. 1913 South Dakota)
as well as
John Carter (b. 1836 Newfoundland, d. 1888 Newfoundland) & Theresa Moore (b. 1845 Newfoundland, d. 1923)
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I continue to search for records relevant to the McKenzie brothers who were captured in Boston Harbor in 1776. Would like to connect with Ed Brumby.
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Hi Megan,
Great to read your posts and learn you are a descendant of Philip McKenzie of Topsfield and that you are researching Philip and his brother William. There was a third brother, Alexander. I have corresponded with the lady that is Alexander's descendant. A cousin of hers did a DNA test and my brother and I and another descendant of our William McKenzie have done DNA tests. Unfortunately our DNA results did not match closely with those of Alexander's descendant. So it looks like my hopeful theory that our William was the brother of Philip is disproven by the DNA. If you have done a DNA test, I would like to know about the results, if you are willing, just to verify this though. I have also corresponded with Ed Brumby and if he doesn't see your message and respond here soon, I will contact him and let him know about your post. Thanks again for your message, Carol Harrison
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Hi Carol
I have been DNA tested as has my father -- we're both Philip's direct descendants. Our results are on gedmatch and I'm happy to share our accession numbers with you privately.
I've spent some time in Topsfield going through records and may have a few things to add to the conversation.
Thank you for your reply!
Megan
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Thanks so much, Megan. I would enjoy corresponding with you privately. Our results are on Gedmatch also. My email address is: *
(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi again,
I believe I found you on gedmatch and we have a match. Very exciting, but I do want to confirm it with you. I will need to let my cousin know who is over in Scotland doing research right now as he would be glad to find this out also.
Thank you so much, Carol
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Megan, I have been in contact with Ed Brumby and he has given me permission to give you his new email address. His email address changed, so I think roots chat has his old email address. Please contact me at* Thanks, Carol
(*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Moderator, I'm very sorry I broke the rules. I forgot about the PM system. Carol H
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Hi Megan,
Great to read your posts and learn you are a descendant of Philip McKenzie of Topsfield and that you are researching Philip and his brother William. There was a third brother, Alexander. I have corresponded with the lady that is Alexander's descendant. A cousin of hers did a DNA test and my brother and I and another descendant of our William McKenzie have done DNA tests. Unfortunately our DNA results did not match closely with those of Alexander's descendant. So it looks like my hopeful theory that our William was the brother of Philip is disproven by the DNA. If you have done a DNA test, I would like to know about the results, if you are willing, just to verify this though. I have also corresponded with Ed Brumby and if he doesn't see your message and respond here soon, I will contact him and let him know about your post. Thanks again for your message, Carol Harrison
I just discovered this forum, and this immediately caught my eye. I am the 3gr grandson of Alexander MacKenzie,(McKenzie) of Essex, MA. Family history has held that three MacKenzie brothers arrived with a British regiment and taken prisoner at Boston, (Phillip (or Enoch), William, and Alexander. I have been DNA tested and have been hoping for a match on the Phillip line.
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Hi there,
Wonderful to see your post, RC Mack, and learn you are a descendant of Alexander Mackenzie. And fantastic you have done a DNA test, I would love to compare results with you. I tested with family tree DNA and my results are on gedmatch.com. Currently doing a test with ancestry also. I wonder if maybe we corresponded in the past.
Thanks very much, Carol Harrison
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Carol, we may have run into each other in the past. I've been on the "McKenzie" quest for many years. One theory, (credit my father), is that Alexander may have been Wm. Alexander, and thus only two brothers? My DNA is on Ancestry and Gedmatch.
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Thanks for your reply. That was my theory for many years also that William and Alexander were one in the same. But then I got in touch with you and later a lady who also definitely had Alexander as her ancestor, so then believed there was an Alexander. Recently got in touch with another person who is descended from a William and has the same story that he went back to England and then to the East Indies. So who knows. But I have a DNA match with at least three people descended from PhilIp or Alexander, so related in some way. How can I find you on gedmatch or ancestry? My email address is the same as years ago, if you can find it. Thanks so much, Carol Harrison
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Carol,I don't think we match on Ancestry, (mackpower). Can't find your email. Tried to PM you.
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I don't have results on Ancestry yet, as my sample did not test right. I have another kit here in my home now to do. But I have a McKenzie third cousin who tested on Ancestry and I can look for you in his results. Thanks for your ancestry name. Can also look for your tree on ancestry. This will be a little later today as I need to go out. Thanks again.
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Checked gedmatch.com and we have only a small match of 4.6 CM on chromosome 13. I should check you with my brother also who sometimes has better DNA results than I do. Didn't see how to reply to your personal message, so posting this here. We did correspond some years ago and I recently tried your email from that time period, but it didn't go through.
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Carol, the connection would be what, six generations removed? DNA could be washed out a bit. Try a match with your brother and see if it changes.
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Sorry, posted in error, and removed.