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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 09:06 BST (UK)

Title: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 09:06 BST (UK)
Does anyone know of an orphanage where London children were placed.  My Dad was placed in an orphanage as a toddler, I found he was a boarder in the 1901 census, he never saw his parents again.  I learned from a programme on the radio a few years back that the Cottage Homes were started by people taking children into their homes and then it was expanded into the Cottage Homes.  My Dad always thought his orphanage was in Greenwich where he was born but I cannot trace any information on any.  Does anyone have information where he might have been.  One person who knew a lot of history about Greenwich thought he might have been put in an orphanage in Epsom for Children of the Workhouse.
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: PaulineJ on Wednesday 18 April 12 09:09 BST (UK)
Can you start by giving his name and 1901 census reference?
had he left care by 1911?

Pauline
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 09:17 BST (UK)
His name was Joseph Thompson
age 3
Piece 542, Folio 93, Page 17, Schedule Number 105.

He always said he was at the orphanage until he was 14, he joined the army, the Rifle Brigade and served through WW1 and left the army in the 1920's.  He then went on to become a musician with one of the 1930's big bands. 

I have found a reference to a woman who might be his mother on the 1901 census, Florence Ada Thompson, who was a General Domestic Servant, and referred to as a widow, but I haven't found any reference to his father Joseph Thompson death or otherwise, but Joseph Thompson is such a common name.  My father's full name was Joseph Charles Thompson.
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 18 April 12 09:31 BST (UK)
In 1901, Joseph isn't at an orphanage, but is a boarder?! ;D

5 Glenister Road, Greenwich

Cooper, William  Head  Widower  M  55  Pile Driver  b Norfolk
Chapman, Thomas  Boarder  M  42  Bricklayer Labourer  b Greenwich
Bridger, Alfred  Boarder  M  43  Bricklayer Labourer  b Bedfordshire
Bridger, Lizzie  Boarder  F  43  b Lewisham
Bridger, Polly  Boarder  F  15  b Greenwich
Thompson, Joseph  Boarder  M  3  b Greenwich
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 09:56 BST (UK)
Yes, I know, but later on my Dad said that when he was 5 he was in a large orphanage where the girls and boys were segregated, the two buildings were on the same site by separated by a fence.  On the radio programme I listened to they said that the start of the cottage home orphanages were started by people who took in boarders and gradually they raised enough money to build purpose built buildings, the first being in Epsom.  My contact on Greenwich history said he thought that is where my Dad would have been sent, but I cannot find any information on their records.

Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: Sharon01 on Wednesday 18 April 12 10:26 BST (UK)
Hi,

This could be his birth.

Joseph Charles Thompson Apr-June 1897, Greenwich, Greater London, Kent
(Vol 1d Page 1099).

Sharon
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 13:25 BST (UK)
Thanks I have his birth certificate, his father was Joseph Thompson and mother Florence Ada Thompson (nee) Atkins.

My dad tried for many years to track his family down, he went back to where he was born, spent many hours at Somerset House going through the records, but in those days the census only went up to 1881, they had to be kept locked for 100 years, so he couldn't find where they were in 1901.  He thinks he was boarded out, or put in the orphanage when he was 18 months of age, he vaguely remembered his mother standing in a doorway whilst he was being weighed. 

If his father died it is possible she remarried as she was a relatively young woman. 
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: PaulineJ on Wednesday 18 April 12 13:36 BST (UK)
Can you give the 1901 details of the Florence Ada tHompson?
Let's see what we can do with it.

And what occupation did the father have in 1897?
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 14:04 BST (UK)
Hi, Thanks, I did find on the 1901 census an entry for a Florence A Thompson who was a widow working as a General Servant Domestic.  It says she was born in Islington London, and was working at 50 Primrose Mansion Residential Flats in Battersea.

Whether or not this is my paternal grandmother remains to be seen.  I have been unable to track her in the 1911 census, I have looked for Florence Thompson, Florence Ada, and Florence A, with no success.

In the 1901 census, there is another family living in Chelsea, who have the same names, i.e. Joseph, Florence Ada and Joseph Charles Thompson, plus other children, but the age of the Joseph Charles does not correspond with my JC Thompson.

I have tried going back to 1891/81 to try and find F A Thompson/Atkins, as I think she might be easier to track than J Thompson, I have looked for marriage records, again, no trace, and for death records of Joseph Thompson, supposing that the 1901 census record is hers, so I looked between 1897 (my dad's birth year) and 1901.  So any help would be very gratefully appreciated.
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 18 April 12 15:56 BST (UK)
Possible birth?

Born April 10th 1871
Baptism May 10th 1871
Florence Ada  daughter of Stephen Benjamin & Jane Atkins
23 Waldinge(?) Street
At Christ Church, Greenwich East.
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 18 April 12 19:06 BST (UK)
Hi,  Thanks for that, I don't know how far Greenwich is from Islington, but the dates are very close to what I have calculated from the 1901 census.
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: LizzieW on Wednesday 18 April 12 23:00 BST (UK)
On Heir Hunters today, there was a case of a couple of young brothers who were put into a cottage home by their parents and were on the 1901 census.  On the 1911 census the parents had obviously improved their status and they had 2 more children.  The Heir Hunters found the daughter of one of the 2 children who were on the 1911 census.  She said her mother was told the older boys had left home.  The parents were probably too embarrassed to say they'd put the boys in a home.

It's possible a similar thing happened to your dad. 

As he was boarded out in 1901, perhaps his mum intended to come back for him, but when she didn't he was put into an orphanage.

Quote
until he was 14, he joined the army, the Rifle Brigade and served through
WW1 and left the army in the 1920's.  He then went on to become a musician with one of the 1930's big bands. 

That bit is definitely correct.  In 1911 he was a Boy 413/x/0 2nd Bn Sherwood Foresters in Crownhill Barracks, Devon as a musician.

Lizzie

Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: auntynet on Thursday 19 April 12 00:49 BST (UK)
Hi

Have you tried the workhouses.org.uk site. When you  go to this site on the left hand side you can scroll down and look for children and education this will open more choices to include boarding out/cottage homes etc.  There was one school district which ran a band!!

Best wishes Jeanette
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Wednesday 08 August 18 11:54 BST (UK)
I have found several Family Trees with a Florence Ada Atkins, but no mention of a spouse.  On my father's birth certificate it states his father was a labourer. 

I also listened to a radio programme on the history of The Cottage Homes, where they said that they originated from people taking in children and being classed as borders, then as they raised funds and more children needed caring for, they became The Cottage Homes.  My Dad always said there were houses with a specified number of children, House Mother and House Father.  Until the age of 5 they were in mixed houses, but then were put into segregated houses which were separated from each other by fencing.  According to the radio programme they were a long way and far superior from the Victorian orphanages.

Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 08 August 18 12:20 BST (UK)
In the 6 years since this thread started, a sister site to www.workhouses.org.uk has appeared:
www.childrenshomes.org.uk

Well worth a look ;D
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 08 August 18 14:22 BST (UK)
Admission to the Greenwich Union Workhouse, 8 July 1901
Joseph Thompson, age 4
Says illegitimate, deserted
From 3 Glenister Rd
Title: Re: Orphanages, Greenwich
Post by: michlyntyres on Friday 10 August 18 13:11 BST (UK)
 jonw65, Thank you for that information, 3 Glenister Road was where my Dad was classed as a border in the 1901 census, another brick in the wall. 

I will try and research why children were placed in workhouses without their parents, I have searched marriage records to see if I can get any information on my grandfather.  I did look at the 1891 census for the address in Conley Street and there was another Thompson as the householder, but no Joseph Thompson.  I can't find any death record of him, I even searched prison records on the census, but I suppose he would not have been incarcerated in one close by, could have been anywhere.

Thanks again, I feel even more sorry for my Dad.