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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: ricardoespana on Sunday 13 May 12 13:44 BST (UK)

Title: Charles W Bryan
Post by: ricardoespana on Sunday 13 May 12 13:44 BST (UK)
Hello

Help please.....am trying to find details of when my great uncle CHARLES W BRYAN settled in New Zealand.....I believe North Island, but I may be wrong......Although he was born in Plymouth, Devon, England in about 1872, I know he upped sticks and emigrated when he was either late teens or early 20's (family argument.lol).....

I have always been under the impression from my late mother, that he set up a coach/bus/transport business, I presume under the name of Bryan.....and that he married a local girl.....

Any help/details please will be grateful for marriage(s)....children...business....work....death etc, etc....
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 13 May 12 16:59 BST (UK)
Others may be able to help you more later but Charles only seems to appear in the 1881 Census with Parents SAMUEL H/ELIZA S
Birth Reg 1871 under Charles Walter Bryan.

Have you looked around on NZ BMD:
Possible Death Reg;
Charles Walter BRYAN, 1930, Age 60 (1930/10437)

There is a Charles Walter Bryan who died 1999, Birth 11 Sept 1906, possible Son.

The only Birth Reg c 1906 is this;
BRYAN, Charles, 1906/15481
Parents, MARY SMITH and CHARLES
Other Children with same Parents;
DAVID 1909
JOHN DANIEL 1910

Mary Smith BRYANs Death was Reg 1945, age 65 (Birth c 1880)

Marriage Reg;
Mary Smith CRAIG
Charles BRYAN
1906/3730
Website;
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/home/

As I said there are other experts on the NZ Board with access to better Records than me who may help you more :)
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Sunday 13 May 12 19:13 BST (UK)
the Charles Walter Bryan mentioned above, and his son and buried at Waitara Cemetery
Surname: BRYAN
Forenames: Charles Walter
Gender:
Last Address: Onaero (Farmer)
Age at Death: 60 Years
Date of Death: 10 Dec 1930
Category: Burial
Funeral Director: Not Available
Date of Burial: 12 Dec 1930
Cemetery: WAITARA
Info in the NEw Plymouth Database
http://www.newplymouthnz.com/CouncilAtoZ/CemeteriesAndCrematorium/CemeterySearch.htm

Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Janette on Sunday 13 May 12 19:32 BST (UK)
Hello,

This article has a Charles W Bryan boarding in Auckland in 1908

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0me7/


Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 13 May 12 22:53 BST (UK)
NZ Electrol Roll;
1911, Westland, West Coast
BRYAN, Charles, Ngahere, Engine Driver
Bryan, Mary Smith, Ngahere, Married
+ these for Charles
1919, Aratika, Engine Driver
1928, Kotuku, Engine Driver + Charles Jnr, Saw Millhand
Mary Smith Bryan is on both also.
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Sunday 13 May 12 23:34 BST (UK)
HI
we have two Charles Bryans..from info above (excluding the junior)

One who was in Taumaranui then Stratford, a farmer..that is the 1930 burial

Then South Island..guess the telling factor is if you are after Charles Walter Bryan
Bye
althea
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 12:02 BST (UK)

Help please.....am trying to find details of when my great uncle CHARLES W BRYAN settled in New Zealand.....I believe North Island, but I may be wrong....


Hi ricardo...

The Charles Walter BRYAN who died 1930, (and is buried at Waitara, Taranaki, North Island), first appears on a New Zealand electoral roll in 1911.

1911 - Taumarunui (Supplementary) Roll

BRYAN - Charles Walter - Uruti* - occ. farmer

[* Uruti is in North Taranaki region, not too distant from Waitara. ]

In 1914 he is at the same location with his wife, Edith.

What I wasn't able to find on NZ records, was a marriage for a Charles BRYAN with a wife named Edith.
[But more on that later. ]

There is however on the NZ (online) Birth index, the following:

1909 - BRYAN - Lionel William Egmont

Parents:   Edith and Charles Walter BRYAN


~ Lu
                                                            see next >

     
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Monday 14 May 12 12:11 BST (UK)
The married in England according to NZSG cert collection
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 12:37 BST (UK)
In the 1935 and 1938 electoral rolls for Stratford and New Plymouth (both Taranaki region), Edith BRYAN (still listed as married, though a widow) is at Onaero.

1935 -- with Charles Walter BRYAN [junior], farm hand and Lionel William Egmont BRYAN, farmer.

1938 -- at same place, with Charles Walter [jnr] and (what appears to be another son), Bernard Rimu BRYAN, farmhand.

[If you look at the cemetery link provided earlier, you'll see records also for these other BRYANs -- all with a connection to Waitara. ]

Bernard Rimu BRYAN's death registration records he was born 18 January 1913 (his birth is not yet showing on NZ BDM, online due to the 100 year limit).   Charles Walter BRYAN (d.o.b. 11 September 1906) is not recorded as being born in NZ.
                                                                     see next >

Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 12:46 BST (UK)
Hi again ricardo...

I believe the following is very likely to be the birth registration for Charles Walter BRYAN (junior).

Western AUSTRALIA

Birth - 1906 - registered at Perth, W.A.

BRYAN - Charles W.



--------

... and that this is the marriage of his parents :

1903

Charles Walter BRYAN
Edith ANDERSON

Place of Registration:   Perth, Western Australia
Reg'n. #    1708


                                                                see next  >

 
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 12:58 BST (UK)
Electoral and Directory listings for Perth, Western Australia :

1903 and 1906 - Electoral Rolls - Perth


BRYAN - Charles Walter - 118 Pier Street, - Cycle Agent

1907 - P.O. Directory - Perth

BRYAN - C.W. - Cycle Bldr.* - 341 Wellington Street, Perth

* Cycle Bldr. (Builder? ) - whilst it not a coach / bus business,  it's an occupation associated with transport.   ;)

1908 - Directory

BRYAN - C.W.   ... same listing but at 387 Wellington Street, and p.r. (private residence) listed as 28 Saunders Street, East Perth.

1908 is last listing -- not found on 1909 / 1910.

  ~  Lu
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 14 May 12 13:00 BST (UK)
The one I found was an Engine Driver, more Transport ;D
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 13:19 BST (UK)
Australian Newspapers

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

"The Western Australian" - 21 March 1906 -- page 6

..... Sale by Auction  ... under instructions from Mr C.W. BRYAN, who is leaving for New Zealand, a collection of furniture and household effects, including a piano by Fritz Kuhla  ....


[Hmm ...  (a son born in Perth, Sept. 1906 ?) and still in directory listing 1908,  so the move to NZ was possibly delayed ? ]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 13:46 BST (UK)
Hi again ricardo...

You might like to view the (free) listings at FamilySearch.org -- see Immigration and Passenger Lists for New Zealand 1855-1973 - (images of lists also available) :

This looks encouraging ...  ;)

BRYAN - C.W.

Year - 1888 (Jan-Jun)  New P.  (New Plymouth perhaps?)
Ships arrival Port:   Wellington

Male - aged 17   [ bc 1871 ]
Origin: England
Occupation :   Cadet

Multiple Ships

  ~  Lu
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 14:49 BST (UK)
Drat !  The image for that 1888 voyage, sometime between (Jan & Jun), didn't give a date / month.    :D

The ship though was the "Tongariro" - from London ...  which I see actually made two voyages to NZ in that six-month period.   ???
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 14:58 BST (UK)
Aah ...  here it is  ... an account of the voyage and list of some passengers.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

"Evening Post (Wellington) - 3 January 1888 - page 2
-- Arrival of the RMS "Tongariro"

Passengers for Taranaki :  3rd Class  ... Messrs.  ... C. BRYAN...

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 15:45 BST (UK)
The BRYAN sons don't appear to have stuck with "farming".
All three married in the late 1930's.

Lionel, a sales manager and wife Olive remained in New Plymouth and Bernard a driver, and wife Elizabeth Agnes lived at nearby Waitara in the 1980's.
Charles W. (jnr) and wife Ivy Lillian made the move to Auckland and both appear to have died there, although their ashes were returned for burial at Waitara Cemetery in Taranaki.

Archives New Zealand at Wellington, hold Probate files (ex igh Court, New Plymouth) for the following :

BRYAN - Charles Walter - 1931

BRYAN - Edith - 1964

 
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: ricardoespana on Monday 14 May 12 15:51 BST (UK)
Hi again ricardo...

You might like to view the (free) listings at FamilySearch.org -- see Immigration and Passenger Lists for New Zealand 1855-1973 - (images of lists also available) :

This looks encouraging ...  ;)

BRYAN - C.W.

Year - 1888 (Jan-Jun)  New P.  (New Plymouth perhaps?)
Ships arrival Port:   Wellington



Male - aged 17   [ bc 1871 ]
Origin: England
Occupation :   Cadet

Multiple Ships

  ~  Lu



This sounds promising as he was born about 1871/2.....

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: ricardoespana on Monday 14 May 12 17:49 BST (UK)
This is the only photo I have of my great uncle Charlie...in uniform....BUT what is the uniform etc???...

And I have found his full name was Charles Walter Bryan....he left home around the age of 16 or 17 with a fellow officer from his late fathers regiment......I gather he went first to Australia, then onto New Zealand.....on the back of his photo, it says he operated a fleet of coaches and married a NZ girl by the name of AZEALA..??? and had children...

Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Monday 14 May 12 21:26 BST (UK)
Have you got his army records?

Interestng with the Azaela mention, Charles and Edith had a daughter
Azila Norah born 1904  Perth Australia
Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 23:00 BST (UK)
NZ Marriage

Azile Norah BRYAN - Spencer Robert ELLIS -- 1925
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 23:31 BST (UK)
Azile Norah & Spencer Robert ELLIS :

1928 - at Main Road, Okato, (Taranaki) -- his occupation, baker.

1949 - at Victoria Street, Pukekohe (Auckland region) -- occ. baker.

1963 - at King Street, Whangarei (Northland district) - his occ. barman
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 14 May 12 23:35 BST (UK)
Burials

Maunu Cemetery, Whangarei

Azile Mora [sic] ELLIS - 67 yrs - d. 3 December 1970

Spencer Robert ELLIS - 63 yrs - d. 18 June 1966

http://www.wdc.govt.nz
>  click on "cemeteries" link
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 15 May 12 00:13 BST (UK)
Hi again ricardo...

You might like to view the (free) listings at FamilySearch.org -- see Immigration and Passenger Lists for New Zealand 1855-1973 - (images of lists also available) :

This looks encouraging ...  ;)

BRYAN - C.W.

Year - 1888 (Jan-Jun)  New P.  (New Plymouth perhaps?)
Ships arrival Port:   Wellington


Male - aged 17   [ bc 1871 ]
Origin: England
Occupation :   Cadet

Multiple Ships

~  Lu

Edited to add:   
Ship was the RMS "TONGARIRO" - arrived Wellington NZ, 2 January 1888:    Destinatation of emigrant,  C.W. BRYAN, cadet, was New Plymouth, Taranaki :
 



This sounds promising as he was born about 1871/2.....

Regards

Richard

Hi Richard

The passenger list for the "Tongariro" 1888, records that Charles Walter BRYAN was an emigrant to New Zealand (and not to Australia).  ;)

He was likely bonded for a period of time under whatever conditions were set down by the (NZ) Immigration authorities in that era.

Once his contractual obligations were at an end, as a British Subject, he was then free to enter Australia without the need to undergo further immigration formalities.

  ~  Lu 

Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Tuesday 15 May 12 01:39 BST (UK)
Before an entire family tree is completed is it confirmed that this is the right Charles Walter..

the charles Walter marrided to Edith

or is it the Charles Walter married to Mary that the poster is after

Bye
Althea
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 15 May 12 03:54 BST (UK)
Before an entire family tree is completed is it confirmed that this is the right Charles Walter..

the charles Walter marrided to Edith

or is it the Charles Walter married to Mary that the poster is after

Bye
Althea


Marriage Reg;
Mary Smith CRAIG
Charles BRYAN

1906/3730

Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Tuesday 15 May 12 04:08 BST (UK)
Information above was in Trish's first post
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 15 May 12 04:33 BST (UK)
Correct.
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 15 May 12 05:15 BST (UK)
       **   AMENDMENT   **


Hi Richard

This is to correct an error I made in my Reply # 23  :

The first line should read  ...

"The passenger list for the "Tongariro" 1888, records that C. W. BRYAN was an emigrant to New Zealand  ...

[I'd originally written "Charles Walter" which is incorrect as the passenger was only shown by his initials "C.W."  ]


  ~  Lu
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: ricardoespana on Tuesday 15 May 12 07:52 BST (UK)
Before an entire family tree is completed is it confirmed that this is the right Charles Walter..

the charles Walter marrided to Edith

or is it the Charles Walter married to Mary that the poster is after

Bye
Althea

Dear Althea

I agree, but I am somewhat confused, as it appears there are 3 names - your two (Edith and Mary) and my one of AZEALA or could be AZALEA.

Did he marry once, twice or even three times??

Regards

Richard
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 16 May 12 03:02 BST (UK)
Before an entire family tree is completed is it confirmed that this is the right Charles Walter..

the charles Walter marrided to Edith

or is it the Charles Walter married to Mary that the poster is after

Bye
Althea

Dear Althea

I agree, but I am somewhat confused, as it appears there are 3 names - your two (Edith and Mary) and my one of AZEALA or could be AZALEA.

Did he marry once, twice or even three times??

Regards

Richard

Hi Richard

Perhaps you could help ease your confusion by querying where the above "Charles Walter married to Mary" marriage record, came from ?

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Charles W Bryan
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 16 May 12 17:48 BST (UK)
I think that was mine;
1906 to Mary Smith CRAIG (NZ)

Trish :)