RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 15 May 12 10:50 BST (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt, Nifty has a problem he's hoping you can 'flesh out' for him.
Good Luck and Good Hunting
Barbara
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Hi/Hello
I am trying to use the many brains and resources that may be accessed via this thread.
Barbara has kindly advised me to give as much information as possible and that I should read the relevant threads of others to get some idea how to ask about a subject.
I have done as Barbara suggested and one term which I liked that was used by another poster was 'the scatter-gun approach' and is one which I had intended to stick with until I had something more tangible to go on. The trouble for me with the scatter-gun approach is that my family is pretty complicated. Therefore I will try and address my further questions in some sort of chronological focus if any development should occur from this initial post.
Other lines which had a particular resonance with me was,
'I am now writing it all down to bring clarity to my mind, it's like having a whole new family.
My great grandfather certainly lived on the edge'.
I feel that some of my forefathers and mothers may have also lived on the edge. I believe my father certainly did. I want to learn all that I can about him/them and that is the reason for my starting this thread.
As the product of a failed marriage, I have several families that I want to research. I have considerable amount of information on my mother's side, and also my father, which for the interests of clarity and focus, I shall introduce others into this thread at a later date.
For the time being, I am trying to learn more about my father who was
Marsh Ramsay Brown Born Auckland (co Durham) p.10a vol.48 (sic. BMD) died 1985,
his direct family and his forefathers families.
I have discovered through the notes of my late mother that my late father was born on December 30th 1923.
My father's last wife told me that he said that 'he was very clever, had been to university and had a degree'. I have reason to believe that he was clever, but wonder if he did in fact attend university.
I have written to the archives at Durham University (the natural place to start looking?) and am informed that he did not attend any course there. Though of course he may have been elsewhere.(?)
In April 1943 he was taken on for aircrew training at the RAF ACRC at Regents Park in London.
It is at this point I wish the Hunters to look backwards on his life because, as the character Manuel of Faulty Towers might say 'I know nothing'
except:
His father Elias,(known as Fred) was born at Stanley Peases West Crook co. Durham in 1896 but was at West Rainton seven years later.
His mother's name was Margaret Brown (p11 1911 census?) but I do not know of her occupation etc.
Elias was the youngest of two brothers John (1894 at Stanley) and Robert (c.1891 Stanley Peases Mount Pleasant in 1891 census))
His grandfather was
Robert Marsh b1841, Sunderland, was a Weaver by trade married to
Elizabeth Dye b 1844, Sunderland, a Potter by trade.
Her mother was Barbara Macintosh born 1821, Houghton Durham, she married a
James Dye or 'Deye' born 1814 Norfolk.
Can anybody please flesh out or substantiate these facts out and/or go back further?
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well elizabeth dye did marry robert marsh in 1864 in sunderland.
on the 1871 census in sunderland
RG10/5015/24 p 47
Filter's Row, Sunderland
robert (weaver) and elizabeth have three children john (1866), elias (1868) and sarah (1871) all born county durham .
with them is barbara mcintosh - mother and widow born 1821 durham
this elias is much older than the elias you quote so i think there must be another generation
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in 1891 son elias is married
MARSH, Elias Head Married 23 Coal Miner b Sunderland Durham
MARSH, Margaret Wife Married F 20 b Blackhorse Durham
MARSH, Robert Son M 0 (1M) 1891 Mount Pleasant Durham
RG12/4076/140 p 22
33, Mount Pleasant, Crook And Billy Row, Billy Row Durham
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1901
RG13/4697 / 101 p 37
Cocken Terrace, West Rainton,
MARSH, Elias Head Married 33 Coal Miner Hewer Sunderland Durham
MARSH, Margaret Wife Married 30 Sunderland Durham
MARSH, Robert Son 10 Stanley Durham
MARSH, John Son 7 Stanley Durham
MARSH, Elias Son 5 Stanley Durham
MARSH, Joseph Son 1 Cocken Terrace Durham
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1911
information removed
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Vron..... we're not allowed to put up info regarding 1911 census!! ;D ;D
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Thanks :D :D
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1861 - bit muddled?
MCINTOSH, Barbara Head Widow F 43 1818 Dock Labourers Widow Durham
DYE, Ann Daughter Married F 20 1841 Bricklayers Wife Thirsk Yorkshire
DYE, Elizabeth Daughter In Law Unmarried F 17 1844 Potter Norfolk
DYE, Robert Son In Law Unmarried M 12 1849 Masons Labourer Durham
Piece: 3778 Folio: 51 Page: 12 Registration District: 12
Civil Parish: Sunderland
Municipal Borough: Sunderland
Address: 1, South Alley, Sunderland
County: Durham
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vronlady (and others who have replied while I have been writing this)
Thank you very much for your info, it is most welcome.
I can hardly believe it has appeared so quickly. I am in New Zealand at present and it is midnight.
I will look into it more tomorrow.
Meanwhile, please can you tell me if Robert, John or Sarah Marsh who were the brothers and sister of Elias (b. 1896) had any children?
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there is this submitted on family search
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M1YX-5FS
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if you look on the new family search you will find lots more about the siblings and their marriages etc etc
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and the eldest elias in 1841
MARSH, Elias 45 sail cloth weaver
MARSH, Sarah 40
MARSH, Joseph 18
MARSH, Elizabeth 15
MARSH, Elias 10
MARSH, Mary 6 Durham
MARSH, Robt 2 Durham
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one of the missing baptisms of that family
Elias Marsh bp 13 Jan 1833 Limehouse, son of Elias and Sarah Marsh. Elias senr's occupation: weaver
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coming forward this is the marriage of your grandparents
Elias MARSH & Lily Brown Auckland RD Mar qtr 1921 Vol 10a 421
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I have found several contenders on who may have been my paternal grandmother
Lily Brown born c.1899 Hanley, Staffordshire
Lily Brown born c. 1901 Shotton Washington, Durham
Lily Brown born c.1899 Hanley, Shotton Staffordshire
There may be more here https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Alily~%20%2Bsurname%3Abrown~%20%2Bany_place%3Adurham~%20%2Bany_year%3A1890-1911~&collection_id=1921547
I have tried to follow the advice given here https://www.familysearch.org/node/1144 and, as the introduction says, 'searching can be like looking for needle in a prairie full of haystacks'
Please could anybody tell me which ancestor is likely to be my grandmother (married to Ramsay’s Father is most likely to be.
Note Raw information from certain sources should not be posted on this site.
If you have any relevant information that falls into that bracket to offer please send it to me via personal message.
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There are too many possibilities to 2nd. guess who Lily Brown was - really think you need to get the marriage certificate of Elias Marsh and Lily Brown, who as mentioned, married in 1921, to confirm her age and name of father.
Elias' parents were Elias Marsh and Margaret Peacock whose marriage is listed in Dec.qtr.1889 Auckland. However, Margaret Peacock is not easy to pinpoint either - she consistently says on 1891 and later census that she was bc.1871 but birthplace varies from Blackhouse, Spennymoor and Sunderland and cannot identify an obvious Margaret at any of these places in 1871 or 1881 census.
Annette
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Annette 7
Thank you for your concise reply Annette7
I had realised that there were an enormous range of possibilities when I found around 175 possibilities.
I have quite a lot 'on my plate' as it is at the minute, but, if I ever was short of something to do I thought that I could manually try narrow the list down. I thought that the software that presents to possibilities might have automatically ranked them in order according to the search words given and there may be an effective way of narrowing the field sufficiently to take a semi informed guess.
As a slight aside I notice that there are many Lily Marsh's around that time. Does anyone know exactly why it was fashionable at that time?
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Concise?
Semi-informed guess??
Alas, guesses shouldn't form part of your ancestry - you could find yourself researching completely the wrong line as many on here have found to their regret.
Since the time frame is the early part of your ancestry you need to be sure you have things right from the get-go. Sometimes certificates are the only way to confirm things I'm afraid.
Annette
PS Did your father have a brother? I note another Marsh ws born Mar.1936 whose mothers maiden name was Brown (can't post full name as could still be living) and as the only Marsh/Brown marriage in Auckland was Elias/Lily wondered if this was another child (13 years between he and your father).
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Re Father haveing a brother
I have always been under the imressionthat he was an only child. It is unfortunate if so because there seems to be no one that I can ask about what he was like. It struck me that it may be I might find decendants of his father's brothers who I think would be my second cousins.
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i did see the other marsh birth in auckland but given the long time difference i thought it unlikely but you never know. the only way to be sure would be to buy the birth cert. likewise the only way to be sure about lily brown would be to buy the marriage cert giving age, fathers name and occupation etc.
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I would like to thank everybody who has so far contributed to this thread. I have consolidated the information gained from it and would like to see if I can glean any more information before the thread becomes too cold.
In 1944 (or before)the late Ramsay Marsh, son of Elias and Lily, met a girl in Canada and married her there in 1945. She died a few years ago but it is not my intention to look into her background but rather to look to see what I can find of my late mother's (Thelma E. E. Kirtland b 1928) family. So far I have got basic details as follows:
According to the Slough Windsor an Eton Express she married my father at Windsor Methodist church at Windsor on Sunday 2 6 1952. I know that the wedding reception was held at The Swan P.H. in Clewer near Windsor. The paper says that the Best Man at the wedding was Mr. A. G. Morton-Fuller, who I suspect, may have been an American or Canadian air force Flight Sergeant. How can I find out about him?
My mother's father (Leonard Ralph Kirtland) was born at Clewer, Berkshire in 1885. He died at Windsor hospital of TB in 1956.
His wife Ethel Elizabeth Nee Green was born at Winkfield Berkshire in Dec. 1889 and died at Winkfield in 1967 having spent all of her life in and around Windsor. Apparently she delivered milk from a horse and cart there when she was about 14.
Her mother or other relations may be mentioned in this passage from The Windsor and Eton Express 28th January 1837
Windsor Police
On Thursday four men, named Richard Green, George Green, John Wilson, and John Raygon; were bought before the Magistrates, charged with stealing two coppers, the property of Mr.Bedborough, from some of his houses in South-place. The coppers were stolen on Monday night, and from some circumstances of strong suspicion against the prisoners they were apprehended on Tuesday. Upon these circumstances being stated, the prisoners were remanded for further examination on Monday next. From some private information which was obtained, Captain Thomson, after the men had been remanded, granted a search warrant to Copas, the Clewer Constable, who proceeded to the premises of an old woman, named Green, a relative of two of the prisoners, residing in Clewer fields, and succeeded in discovering the two stolen coppers buried in the garden attached to her house. On Monday the property will be forthcoming , and the old woman herself will be brought forward.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dutillieul/ZWindsorEtonExpress/28thJanuary1837.html
I should like to find a posotive or negative linkage. Any help much appreciated.
I should also like to be able to know more about Leonard's family who were:
Percy b.1896
George Henery (sp?) b. 1895
Eva 1893
Walley 1880
Ernest b. 1876
George b. 1874
Ada b.1873
An uncle told me that his aunt Ada used run tea rooms or a tea shop in Eton Hight Street 'about 5 doors down from Windsor bridge'.
How can I find out more?
Thomas James b.1872 Baptised at Clewer.
The same uncle told me that Thomas used to own a lot of property in Windsor 'about ten or twenty houses'. Including some pubs. I know for a fact that he had The Coach and Horses in Oxford Road Windsor and that in the pub was still being run by Mrs Lucy Kirtland before it was demolished in 1967. http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/windsorhistory/Oxford%20Road/1950-1965%20OxfordRoad.html
I am not sure if this Lucy was the wife or daughter of Thomas and really would most welcome further information on him. My uncle described him as 'a most interesting character, lets just say that you would not want to be on the wrong side of him' Unfortunately, I am not in possession of the picture of his uncle that in itself tells just that story. Apparently Tommy moved to London and opened pubs or clubs there.
The passage below from http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/pubs/windsorpubs.html gives one of the flavour of Windsor before it was gentrified.
'It seems that in 1836, a Mr John Gibbs, landlord of The Coach and Horses public house, was prosecuted for 'running a disorderly house'. This establishment does not appear to get a mention ten years later. George Street also appears to get a regular mention in the Magistrates Courts transcripts. The Spread Eagle, The Rose and Crown, The Blue Anchor and The Prince George as well as a brothel and beer shop known as Wheelers get regular mentions. In 1849, The Spread Eagle's licence was transferred to The Bachelors Arms in Victoria Street, just prior to George Street's demolition. In Clewer Fields, William Austin's beer shop was the home to five girls who provided the census taker with enough information to indicate their profession was prostitution. Many were known only by their nicknames such as Fat Ellen, Black Hannah, Wraysbury Hannah, Biddy, Snook, Spital Bounce or the Sergeant Major. I have strayed off the point of this work but it is of note in order to capture these times in the history of Windsor'.
Any more relevant information please?
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Do you have Leonard and Ethel's marriage cert? (dec qtr 1914, Maidenhead 2c 1034) If so, does it give Ethel's father's name?
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Having difficulty find the right Ethel on the censuses - there is an Ethel Green in Clewer on the 1911 census, but she was not born in Winkfield.
Also there seems to be a bit of a mystery with the parents of the 1911 Ethel. WIll carry on digging!
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Ok, something odd going on (if you have looked at the 1911 census entry, you will know why I picked up on this marriage!).
In 1904, at the parish church of Emmanuel in Paddington, Richard Redrup (38, bachelor) married Mary Ethel Tomkins (38, widow).
Both residing at 89 Watterton Road
Groom's father was Thomas Redrup, baker, deceased
Bride's father was George James Russel, farmer, deceased
Witnesses: Michael Mark Coleman and Ethel Elizabeth Green :-\
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Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea
Henry Green Head Mar 27 Horse keeper bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green Wife Mar 26 bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green Dau 1 bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell mother in law wid 62 Living on own means bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell son in law single 28 carman bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
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Henry Green married Mary Ethel Russell in Mar qtr 1889 Windsor 2c 579
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It looks as if the marriage to Richard Redrup was bigamous - certainly on his side becase I think that he was married already to an Ada, who doesn't appear to die until 1940!
There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)
Edited to amend spelling
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Austin in a corporal at the army, and in 1901 Austin and Mary are at the garrison in Colchester with 11 yr old daugher Elizabeth, bn in Stoke Poges. RG13; Piece: 1707; Folio: 127; Page: 24
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His wife Ethel Elizabeth Nee Green was born at Winkfield Berkshire in Dec. 1889 and died at Winkfield in 1967 having spent all of her life in and around Windsor. Apparently she delivered milk from a horse and cart there when she was about 14.
;D
Except when she was in London (1891), Wolverhampton (1900), and Colchester (1901)
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I should also like to be able to know more about Leonard's family who were:
Percy b.1896
George Henery (sp?) b. 1895
Eva 1893
Walley 1880
Ernest b. 1876
George b. 1874
Ada b.1873
An uncle told me that aunt Ada used run tea rooms or a tea shop in Eton Hight Street 'about 5 doors down from Windsor bridge'. How can I find out more?
Thomas James b.1872 Baptised at Clewer.
Just bringing this forward
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Looking at the 1911 index, Wally, Eva and Leonard are living together in (New) Windsor.
Wally then marries in 1914 in Christchurch, Hampshire (not going to mention names etc) and it looks as if he and his wife have 2 daughters (1915 and 1921).
According to a tree on ancestry (which also has a photo) Eva married in Canada, returning to the UK in 1914 and having 5 children
Ada Edith Kirtland married James Edwards on 20th Dec 1903 at St Martins Church, West Drayton (cert on Ancestry)
Ernest Kirtland married Annie Owen on Feb 23 1899 at Walworth All Saints (cert on ancestry)
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Thanks for your time Spidermonkey.
Re Marriage cert. No I don't have a copy
Firstly, I am learning not to take things for granted. I never knew too much about EEK's nee G's birth or girlhood but
I said:
Ethel Elizabeth Nee Green was born at Winkfield Berkshire in Dec. 1889 and died at Winkfield in 1967 having spent all of her life in and around Windsor. Apparently she delivered milk from a horse and cart there when she was about 14.
Talk about petards and hoisting! I took the information from my late mothers family webpage.
Spidermonkey said
Except when she was in London (1891), Wolverhampton (1900), and Colchester (1901)
I think that would seem to make more sense as (according to an uncle) her first born son went to London after living in Windsor. Perhaps he was in London before he came to Windsor.
RE
The bigamous marriage of Richard Redrup to Ada. Who appeared to die in1940
I think that the Ada mentioned here is not my great aunt, or, there certainly is more to this record than meets the eye as I remember visiting her in the mid or late 1950s.
Unless you mean that it was RR who died and Ada was his widow?
The other info that Spidermonkey posted has really got my mind churning. Will post more as it becomes apparent to me.
Edit. Can you inform me if Mary Ethel related to Ethel Elizabeth?
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The Ada that died in 1940 is not connected (as far as I can see!) to your family, except for being the wife of RR who bigamously married Mary Ethel.
Mary Ethel Redrup, formerly Tomkins and Green nee Russell was Ethel Elizabeth's mother (I think!)
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Spidermonkey said
Mary Ethel Redrup, formerly Tomkins and Green nee Russell was Ethel Elizabeth's mother (I think!)
I am pretty sure that it is. Now that you mention it, I have vague memories of my uncle saying somthing about the name Russell. Have just seen somthing that I did not note down (tut tut) that I think mentioned a Green who was a greengrocer or perhaps builder? who lived at Clewer. If correct, I think it would be a likley connection between the families.
I also found this:
http://www.theroyalwindsorwebsite.com/images01/Localviews/Peascod%20Street/Peascod%20Street%201861%20Clewer.pdf
taken from the 1861 census
It mentions an Elizabeth Green age 46 born at Marlow (1814/5?) who was a dressmaker. I think this could be Ethel Elizabeth's (b. 1889) grandmother.. How does that sound? Any more info on her please?
I believe that the family came from Oxfordshire and Marlow is in that direction.
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Not sure where Henry Green and family came - on the only census we have with him so far - 1891 census - he is from Shropshire, Oswstry. But I had a quick look at earlier censuses and couldn't immediately see a likely candidate.
Therefore, I would not like to assume that Elizabeth Green is his mother/Ethel's gmother.
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Mary Ethel Russell in 1881? RG11; Piece: 1325; Folio: 21; Page: 38
and perhaps Elizabeth Russell in 1881: RG11; Piece: 1325; Folio: 65; Page: 6
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We have a new Scavenger Hunt for you. Lesanne assures me there's more twists and turns in this one than the Isle of Man racetrack!!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,604937.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting
Barbara
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which might come in.
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Hi
I wonder if anybody can help me be sure that I am on the right track and be fairly sure that these individuals are born by the same mother and father
Mary Anne Marsh Baptised 24 May 1835 at Bishop-Wearmouth, Durham born to Sarah Marsh and Elias Marsh Born????
I am tempted to take it that Mary was a sister Robert Marsh b.1841 but am not sure as data was from seperate sources.
Robert on this thread and Mary via Family Search Parish list.
I found something that stated the father's birthplace was Trewhitts Buildings
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01825-7 Film Number: 1514544 Ref No: item 1 p 376
can anybody please inform me as to where these might be, and if any history has been published about them concerning the time Trewhitts Buildings were inhabited in the 19th/20th C.?
Also if Sarah Lipscomb b. 1866 at Maidenhead, is related to Emma Eliza Lipscombe b.1851 at Saint Pancras, Regents Park ?
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Trewhitt's Buildings were in South Johnson Street, Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland http://www.durham-images.org/public/ms/m21/m21sc4.html
Stan
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In the 1861 Census there are numbers 1 to 7 in Trewhitt's Buildings (wrongly transcribed as Tanshith in FindMyPast) RG 9; Piece: 3766; Folio: 78; Page: 62
Stan
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Wow Stan...... how on earth did you manage to find Trewhitt's as Tanshith?? :o :o One very large pat on the back needed there I think ;D ;D
Barbara
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I am really impressed as well. :)
It seemed that I looked everywhere. Obviously not ::)
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I did not look or Trewhitt's Buildings I looked for Johnson Street as the Ward's Northumberland & Durham Directory, 1850, has Trewhitt's Buildings in Johnson Street.
Stan
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Well found whichever way.... ;D
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No relation, but, I have a new term to go with 'the scatter gun approach'.
How's this for grist t' mill?
p376-378 14 January 1837
registered copy of will; Jane TREWHITT, widow of Thomas Trewhitt gentleman, widow, of Alnwick in the county of Northumberland. Died 25 October 1840
with registered copy of codicil, 5 March 1838
with registered copy of codicil, 5 March 1838, estate value £1,500
http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/dpr/dpr1-2-3.xml
also
DPRI/3/1847/A139 20 December 1847
administration bond, penal sum £1,200; Thomas TREWHITT, countryman, bachelor, of Horsley Bricks in the parish of Longhorsley in the county of Northumberland. Died 25 November 1847
http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/dpr/dpr1-3-8.xml
it seems the name goes back further
'The orchard of Christopher Trewhitt in West Boldon, was probably the first official burial ground for the Quakers, and in 1657'
http://www.sunderland-antiquarians.org/assets/Uploads/OPGM/WAP/SANJUL2012.pdf
http://www.sunderland-antiquarians.org/
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On Monday I am booked in to the archives in Durham in order to see what I can find there.
Having invested a considerable amount of time into the point of this researching (????)I am feeling somewhat jittery about what I may (or may not)uncover there. In order to try and plan an approach to take I have extracted the salient information that has been provided in this thread. In doing so it has struck me just how much there is and I would like to thank everybody who has contributed to it.
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Good Luck with the search in Durham :D :D
Don't forget to let us know what you've found out. ;D
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The week previous to last was one of intensive research in various archives. It provided some helpful information which I shall post on this site in the future. At present I have a great deal on my hands as the attached link may indicate.
http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/833166--strangers-yet-brothers
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Congratulations, Nifty...... you must be well pleased ;D ;D
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Thankyou Tephera but The Hunt must continue :D
Would anybody please see if they can find any detais of life and family of Florence Kirtland b. circa 1869, recorded as dying at Windsor March 1903. ? (v. 2c p. 296)
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Possibility from 1901 - 6 Oxford Terrace, Clewer
George H Kirtland Head 27 Cab driver bn Clewer
Florence Kirtland Wife 30 bn Windsor
George E T Kirtland son 6 bn Slough
Percy Kirtland son 2 bn Old Windsor
RG13; Piece: 1170; Folio: 5; Page: 1
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Their marriage - George Henry Kirtland to Florence Garraway Dec qtr 1894 Eton 3a 1043
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In 1881 with parents Edwin T and Elizabeth Garraway RG11; Piece: 1325; Folio: 29; Page: 53
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Edward Thomas Garraway mar Elizabeth Evered Sept qtr 1861 Windsor 2c 672
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Thanks Spider Monkey
Your first post would seem to be rock solid.
I have a slight problem though. I had it that George K was married to an Ada Butler b. 1902
(Unfortunately, I have no idea how I came by that idea).
It was possibly something to having it on good authority (albeit hearsay) that 'George was married twice - his first wife died. 2 sons from first marriage were George and Percy.
Second marrriage:
Marjorie Alice
Lionel Henry Kitchener
Arthur Isaac William
Phyllis Lorraine Nancy
and Dorothy May (disabled) and that they lived in Church Lane Windsor'
Is there any way to find out more about Ada Butler please?
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He definitely marries at least once more - check out the 1911 census ;) He may well marry again - i'll do some checking
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wife #2 - Alice Elizabeth Palmer Sept qtr 1905 Windsor 2c 991
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Alice died in 1954, George in 1956
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Brilliant! Info fits a lot better.
Cheers
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While on an all too short visit to Durham Archives recently, I had quite an interesting chat with one of the archivists there who seemed to specialise in Mining History. He put me on to the idea that Elias b. Whitehall c. 1795 would have had exposure to the fact that coal was being bought into London from the north-east at that time.
As it happens I subsequently found that an Elias Marsh was in the merchant navy about 1845 for 9 years.
Information was on the National Archives site. Ref to follow. (If I can find where I put it; )
I think that if it this was the same man, bycontemporary standards at least, at about 60 he may probably have been a bit old to be the same man. His son Elias b. Bishop Wearmouth, Sunderland. 1831 would be a bit young perhaps. But at least this impli3es the period that he moved north.
Would anybody like to think as to other ways of looking for more information on this idea (other than the official certificate route) please.
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Could anybody please tell me if Monica Evelyn Green born at Windsor 1905 is related to
Ethel Elizabeth Kirtland (nee Green) born at ?? in Dec 1889. Any further information greatly appreciated.
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It looks like Monica's parents are Arthur and Caroline Green. Arthur born c. 1873 to William and Lucy E Green. On 1891 census Arthur is with his family, including a sister Edith E Green :-\ so possible aunt to Monica.
RG12; Piece: 1013; Folio: 7; Page: 10
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Could she be
Ethel E. Green b. 1889 East Harling Guiltcross, Kenninghall ?
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I do apologise - don't think I was very awake this morning as I read 'Ethel' on your post as 'Edith' (hence my rather pointless post!! :()
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Could anybody please shed any light on who the parents of the Sam Kirtland mentioned in this post were?
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=766&Itemid=210.
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In Reply #17 on: Thursday 17 May 12 02:08 BST (UK) » Annette said
PS Did your father have a brother? I note another Marsh was born Mar.1936 whose mothers maiden name was Brown (can't post full name as could still be living) and as the only Marsh/Brown marriage in Auckland was Elias/Lily wondered if this was another child (13 years between he and your father).
Well I have recently heard from an uncle that maybe Ramsey did have a brother.
I have 'met' another cousin through another forum who is the daughter of the lady whose full name could not be mentioned because 'she could be living'. As things turned out she was. She died the week before I made contact. She was the only person who could have told anything about when my great grandfather walked to London from Durham around the time of the Jarrow Marches (not listed). That is the reason he came south and stayed. It is a shame that I wasn't able to catch her because the story of this man and his son should be told. I intend to tell it, warts and all.
If anybody else should have any details that they find online but can not post them because of forum rules please PM them to me.
Best wishes.
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Spidermonkey re Reply #24 on: Tuesday 22 May 12 14:16 BST (UK) »
I have come across a bit of a problem and would like the comments of others as to possibilities
I an trying to identify the parents of a lady who, according to her late daughter, was born Ethel Elizabeth Green on Dec 7th 1889, Married L. Kirtland at Maidenhead in 1914 and died at Winkfield in 1967.
In the 1891 census there is a William (42, general dealer shop) and Elizabeth Green( 37) living at 28 Oxford Rd. Windsor. Living with them are Emma (15, daughter) and William Blake (10, son) also Maude Green (1, daughter). All born at New Windsor.
I think this is as close a match as I can find. Why should there be a discrepancy in the names though? Both of the census Spidermonkey cites and the one above ring bells of recognition.
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This is the info from post #24 brought forward:
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea
Henry Green Head Mar 27 Horse keeper bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green Wife Mar 26 bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green Dau 1 bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell mother in law wid 62 Living on own means bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell son in law single 28 carman bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
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I think you might have to bite the bullet and buy her marriage cert - presumably you are certain of the Green/Kirtland marriage, whereas her birth might be more ambiguous. At least with the marriage cert you will get her father's name, and the two possible sightings of EEG have different fathers.
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I think you might have to bite the bullet and buy her marriage cert -
What! ;) and spoil my fun
I am using a resource provided by Slough library http://www.sloughhistoryonline.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=file&p=slough&f=generic_advancedsearch.htm and with the help of Roots Chatters I am having a great time gradually working things out. (How sad is that)
I'll post more here as I become more sure of what I think are the facts.
When one considers that the man that my Green was to marry was at one time only living a few doors from him, the chance aspect of her being the one that married Kirtland seem somewhat skewed in one's favour.
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I hope to visit the National Archive in the next week or so. I have few firm references from the archive's online site that I wish to examine but want to take full advantage of the time that I shall be there to see what I can find about other members of my family shown previously in this thread -
'and the eldest elias in 1841
MARSH, Elias 45 sail cloth weaver
MARSH, Sarah 40
MARSH, Joseph 18
MARSH, Elizabeth 15
MARSH, Elias 10
MARSH, Mary 6 Durham
MARSH, Robt 2 Durham'
One person in particular that I would like to learn about is Elias junior who I understand becomes a mariner.
1n 1851 his address was 151 Williamson St. Monkswearmouth.
Could anybody please give me any tips on locating any records I may find at the archive which may be relevant to him (or anybody else).
Also if there might be anything on an Elais Marsh who was awarded thhs
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A001046-02374/1120822?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26tid%3d55078199%26tpid%3d13919673921%26ssrc%3dpt_t55078199_p13919673921%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dElias%26gsln%3dMarsh%26msbdy%3d1832%26msbpn__ftp%3dLimehouse%2bSt%2bAnne%252c%2bEngland%26msrpn__ftp%3dMonkwearmouth%2bShore%252c%2bDurham%252c%2bEngland%26msfng0%3dElias%26msfns0%3dMarsh%26msmng0%3dSarah%26msmns0%3dCourt%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d2rx%26cp%3d11%26msbng0%3dMary%26msbns0%3dMarsh%26msbng1%3dRobert%26msbns1%3dMarsh%26msbng2%3dJoseph%2bJohn%26msbns2%3dMarsh%26msbng3%3dJane%2bAnn%26msbns3%3dMarsh%26msbng4%3dSarah%26msbns4%3dMarsh%26msbng5%3dWilliam%26msbns5%3dMarsh%26msbng6%3dElizabeth%26msbns6%3dMarsh%26pcat%3d39%26h%3d1120822%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26db%3dMedalRolls%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=pt_t55078199_p13919673921&backlabel=ReturnRecord
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I recently visited the National Archive at Kew in order to follow up on family research. One of the documents that I found was in the collection http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=BT+113%2F240 and was able to get a few details on page 265 that pertained to Elias Marsh, b. Sunderland 1832;
His Register Ticket No. 479625 was recorded as being issued on the 13th Nov.1849. He was 5' 2”, of dark complexion with brown hair gray eyes (as spelled on original) when went to sea as an apprentice seaman in 1846. Apparently he could not write.
The document mostly consist of Reported Voyages columns from 1845 – 1854.
They are not easy to represent on a forum but are filled out so as to mean as follows:
(Bold printed, Itallics pencil)
1851
Out Home
O (?) S
-----------------
672 92
6 51
-----------------
1729 92
12 57
1852 `
Out Home
O S
-----------------
1729 92
605(?) 12
1853 `
Out Home
S
-----------------
1729 92
6
I did query the meaning of these figures while I was at the archive and ask if I might glean any more information from them trough other records. Unfortunately, I did not ask a person who gave me an what I consider to be a satisfactory answer.
I would be very grateful if anybody thinks that they can shed any more light on these details.
The only other information that I can give that may be of some significance to a person with more expertise at interpreting records than I, is the fact that the page is shared with details of three other seamen.
John Betty, b. Belfast 1832. Reported Voyages columns blank.
John Hayes, b. Southampton 27/5/1813. Reported Voyages columns filled in for 1851 and 1852
James Anellick (?) b. Bristol 7/8/1832. Reported Voyages columns blank.
With the exception of John Betty the Remarks column indicates
Kent
If anybody would like a copy for further examination, please PM me with your email and I will try and send you one.
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I am trying to locate the death date of a 'Henry Green (Deceased)', Profession of Trainer who is cited as being the father of Ethel Elizabeth Green, 23, (spinster) on her Certificate of Marriage to Leonard Ralph Kirtland, 28, (Bachelor), profession of Motor Mechanic. Bride and Grooms residence at time of marriage, Nov. 1914, was 4 Altwood (?) Road; Presumably, but not necessarily, Maidenhead.
Assuming Henry Green was the full name, there are several likely candidates on BMD, between 1894 and 1914.
Deaths Dec 1894 (>99%)
Green
Henry
75
Wallingford
2c
181
Deaths Dec 1895 (>99%)
Green
Henry
79
Wokingham
2c
232
Deaths Mar 1898 (>99%)
Green
Henry
39
Windsor
2c
311
Deaths Sep 1899 (>99%)
Green
Henry
38
Windsor
2c
301
Deaths Jun 1903 (>99%)
Green
Henry
68
Henley
3a
469
Deaths Dec 1905 (>99%)
GREEN
Henry
70
Basingstoke
2c
131
GREEN
Henry
*
Maidenhead
2c
251
Deaths Sep 1906 (>99%)
Green
Henry
74
Reading
2c
185
Deaths Mar 1907 (>99%)
GREEN
Henry
67
Oxford
3a
687
Deaths Dec 1908 (>99%)
GREEN
Henry
60
Bradfield
2c
189
Deaths Mar 1909 (>99%)
GREEN
Henry
88
Wantage
2c
223
I would be very grateful if anyone with the skill and resources at their disposal would try to help me decide which is the most likely.
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This is the info from post #24 brought forward:
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea
Henry Green Head Mar 27 Horse keeper bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green Wife Mar 26 bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green Dau 1 bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell mother in law wid 62 Living on own means bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell son in law single 28 carman bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
Is this the last time we see Henry Green? Or have we got him on later censuses?
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There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)
You might want to get the above cert, to ascertain whether Mary Ethel Green was widowed or divorced. If widowed, you can narrow down the deaths to between 1891 and 1900.
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There is a death for a Henry Green Sept qtr 1899, Wolverhampton 6b 392
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Thanks for bringing that forward Spidermonkey. I have been very slack in not reviewing what has already been unearthed, and also, put it down to being under stress of having an overload of information and unable to deal with it rationally. I find it rather infuriating that among a large cache of family papers and photographs that I have recently acquired, there is so much that is not straight-forward to rationalise/determine.
You ask: 'Is this the last time we see Henry Green? '
I suspect not. I possibly have a photograph of him I want to be sure if this is the case.
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I believe that Henry Green died Sept.qtr.1899 Wolverhampton. As already mentioned, Mary Ethel Green remarried to Austin Herbert Tomkins 1900 Wolverhampton.
I cannot find them in 1901!
Austin Herbert Tomkins died Mar.qtr.1904 Windsor and, as before, Mary wastes no time in marrying again.
Mary Ethel Tomkins, widow, married Richard Redrup 20/11/1904 Emmanuel, Paddington - although only 14/15 her daughter Ethel Elizabeth Green is one of the witnesses.
Mary Ethel Russell was her birth name, daughter of George James Russell, Farmer (deceased) according to the 1904 marriage certificate (she'd married Henry Green Mar.1889 Windsor).
Annette
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Ah Ha! At last.
I understand it could be anybody. The question is why should this fragment of a photograph be kept?
(Link withheld)
Please can anybody provide a fairly acurate date on the clothing worn by those in the picture or glean any other clues from it ?
On second thoughts,
I managed to post a link that displays a photo using Picasa Drop Box. The only problem is that the link also gives access to all my other photographs and I do not wish to do that. Can anybody pease give me or link me to clear instructions as to how to display the photograph singly?
Edit
Annette7 I seem to remembefr my uncle talking of the name Redrup. Alas not with sufficient clarity for me to really grasp the situation as it was.
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It looks as if the marriage to Richard Redrup was bigamous - certainly on his side becase I think that he was married already to an Ada, who doesn't appear to die until 1940!
There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)
It might be worth re-reading through this thread again - during scavenger hunts, loads of information comes in which doesn't always seem to flow, but on another look you might start seeing how you family fits together. Also, there is no point looking for answers that you already have ;)
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Re The Marsh family mostly covered on the first three pages of this particular Scavenge Hunt.
I have come across a bit of a problem that I would dearly like more experiences genealogists to have a look at and inform me of what they think are the most likely reasons for it.
I have been making enquiries into the extended family of Lily nee Brown who married Elias abt1921 in order to add more substance to my findings. My intent was to find out more about a man that Ramsay caled uncle Sid who I took to be related to Lily's family.
Much to my delight, my enquiries have encouraged members of the family to help. I have had a reply from a man who is a grandson of Lily Brown. He is adamant that he knew my father and Elias. He says that he used to visit them in Slough during WW2 and what he has told me so far corresponds well with what I have taken for granted. Except, a few inconsistencies have become apparent.
I had always assumed that Fred was an alias adopted by Elias who was the man who founded the business Fred Marsh & Son. Turf Accounts. It was operating in Windsor in 1963 in Goswell Road.
For a start, it seems that Elias died in 1960 I had assumed that his wife Lily had the business acumen to make the business the success it was in the early and mid 1960s. I thought that she probably became its director and her son Ramsay its principle manager owing to the rich life-style they led.
This assumption evidently has a few faults
My new found distant cousin informs me that there was a Fred Marsh and that he was thought to be an older brother of Elias. Whoever he was I am puzzled as his identity as to who he was as he is not mentioned on any census that I have seen.
Elias' brothers seem to have died as follows :
Robert 1957
John 1916
Joseph 1971
James W ?
Any thoughts please?
Could Fred have had a child of Lily's through a previous liaison or marriage ?
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Ok, something odd going on (if you have looked at the 1911 census entry, you will know why I picked up on this marriage!).
In 1904, at the parish church of Emmanuel in Paddington, Richard Redrup (38, bachelor) married Mary Ethel Tomkins (38, widow).
Both residing at 89 Watterton Road
Groom's father was Thomas Redrup, baker, deceased
Bride's father was George James Russel, farmer, deceased
Witnesses: Michael Mark Coleman and Ethel Elizabeth Green :-\
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Austin in a corporal at the army, and in 1901 Austin and Mary are at the garrison in Colchester with 11 yr old daugher Elizabeth, bn in Stoke Poges. RG13; Piece: 1707; Folio: 127; Page: 24
Who is Austin? I have located Kirtland family photo of a corporal that is proving dificult to identify.
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It looks as if the marriage to Richard Redrup was bigamous - certainly on his side becase I think that he was married already to an Ada, who doesn't appear to die until 1940!
There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)
It might be worth re-reading through this thread again - during scavenger hunts, loads of information comes in which doesn't always seem to flow, but on another look you might start seeing how you family fits together. Also, there is no point looking for answers that you already have ;)
I have read this thread many times and more and more seems to be making sense. My maternal great grandmother was married three times. Before I go down any official certificate route I want to try family search offer that is on this weekend http://www.findmypast.co.uk/freeweekend and search newspapers. Has anybody any idea which papers may carry any information on this bigamy?
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Error
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I am posting this question on the Scavenge Hunt as it may facilitate certain refs that may assist anyone in the quest.
I am trying to discover the movements of my my grandfather Elias Marsh's younger brother Joseph who is said by a family relation to have walked to Oxford possibly in the 1930s and if he stayed there for any length of time (until at least 1942/3). I think that he was Joseph Marsh . b. Sep 1901 Houghton le Spring Co. Durham.
The reason that I want to know as much as possible about Joseph is because my late father Ramsay Marsh (b 1925) applied to join the RAF at Oxford in 1942.
I want to know what he was doing before he began his service in the spring of 1943 at the ACRC in London and after some months of going through further training in England went to Canada to train as a pilot. According to his RAF record his former occupation was given as Lorry Driver. In 1939 List his father was living near Slough, I do not think that Ramsay was recorded with living with him.
I think that he was either still living in Co Durham, or, he may have been staying with his uncle Joseph, that is, if he did in fact walk or travel to Oxford and stayed there.
I notice that there was a birth of a Joseph (who might be a his son) in 1922
Marsh Joseph W Broom Durham 10a 671
And also a Joseph Marsh divorce about 1935 but I am afraid that I have lost the page and cannot retrieve it'
and
Deaths MAR 1967 Joseph Marsh 61, Dudly, 9b 240 and
June, 1967. Joseph Marsh 63, Dudley 9b 172.
I would be very grateful if any one can provide help or information
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A couple of observations for background information Nifty1......
In the early pages of this thread, you asked why the name "Lily" was SO popular?
I would suggest it may have been due to the fame of the affair of a very beautiful actress, known as the Jersey Lily with Edward, Prince of Wales from 1877 to 1880. It seems that although he was married with 6 children at the time, she became his "semi-official" mistress, and he even had her presented to HMQ Victoria. :o
Also, you mention evidence of prostitution in Windsor, "before it became gentrified"......
Having delved into many aspects of social history in the UK, it seems to me that many of the "Gentry", who had plenty of spare money continually indulged in excesses, and I have read there was a published manual grading the standards of available brothels and prostitutes in London.
I would imagine that, for some, the proximity of Windsor to London possibly allowed profligacy to escape gossip.
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Please can anyone provide additional info i.e. parents, occupation or address about Harriet Kirtland b 1812 d. 1864 Faringdon
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Harriet Beal (father Anthony deceased) m George Kirtland at Witney 19 May 1850 and they're on the Census at Faringdon in 1861
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Thanks for that Stevie. Is there any sign of George's occupation? I must say, I think it was very inconsiderate of our forebearers to give all there children the same names through the Generations ;)
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Hi, yes, he was a tailor and his father George (deceased) was a servant
Anthony Beal was also deceased and looks like something like a Fuller which if correct is described online as
One who "fulls" cloth; the process of cleaning (removing the natural oils and lanolin) wool in preparation for spinning and weaving, using fuller's earth.
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Can anyone please tell me anything more about Albert Harry Russel, b. Windsor, 1863 who was a Carman. (on page 3)
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Here is a cut and paste of the relevant post
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea
Henry Green Head Mar 27 Horse keeper bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green Wife Mar 26 bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green Dau 1 bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell mother in law wid 62 Living on own means bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell son in law single 28 carman bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
I have searched BMD but can find no evidence of him.
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Here is a cut and paste of the relevant post
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea
Henry Green Head Mar 27 Horse keeper bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green Wife Mar 26 bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green Dau 1 bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell mother in law wid 62 Living on own means bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell son in law single 28 carman bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
I have searched BMD but can find no evidence of him.
By the transcription of this record on Ancestry someone has made the comment that Albert Harry should be Herbert Harry they say the original record was incorrect. Might be worth looking for a Herbert.
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1881 has Russell family with a Herbert H but wrong age
RG11 Piece number 1325 Folio 65 Page 6
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Thanks for that Lizziel
My sub has lapsed. PLease can you give any details? It could be that I have transcribed is duff info, that is why I am trying to review what info I have on my tree.
I missed the bit about Albert and Harry mix-up. I will get back to it asap. *<:-)
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Thanks for that Liziel
My sub has lapsed. PLease can you give any details? It could be that I have transcribed is duff info, that is why I am trying to review what info I have on my tree.
I missed the bit about Albert and Harry mix-up. I will get back to it asap. *<:-)
Its AlBERT and HerBERT that seem to have got confused, could simply be that the enumerator read Herbert on householder form, but accidentally wrote Albert on the enumerator's form.
transcript of 1881 also on familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-3141
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looks like Herbert Harry's birth reg
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XQW-K7R
added from gro website mmn Cox
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GRO has Mary Ethel with mmn Cox as well.
This looks like the family in 1871 census.....as Rupell, corrected to Russell by another party. RG10; Piece 1302; Folio 34; Page 9
George Head 45 b. Berks Dedworth
Elizabeth 42 b. Berks Windsor
George 14
Charles 12
William 9
Frederick Edward 7
Mary Ethel 5
Herbert 3
All children b. Berks Dedworth
PB
Added: marriage of George Russell and Elizabeth Cox Dec qtr 1848 Windsor RD
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And....
This looks like the same family in the 1861 census. RG9; Piece 761; Folio 127; Page 4
George Russell 34
Elizabeth 32
Ann 9
Eliza 7
George 5
Charles 2
Birthplace here for George Sr is Berks Windsor and for the rest Berks Dedworth.
You might check if your local public library subscribes to Ancestry Library Edition. This would give you access to most records including images. However, there is no access to trees, if I remember correctly.
PB
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Can anybody please confirm the identity of these two deaths
Green, Henry, 39, Windsor. 2c 311
Deaths Sep 1899 (>99%)
Green, Henry, 38, Windsor, 2c 301Of
I am pretty sure that one of them was living with Mary nee Russel and Baby Elizabeth at Battersea in 1901 and would like to know more about the other
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Hi there :).
Might be a bit difficult to be living with Mary and Elizabeth in 1901 if one is deceased?
Can you give more info about Mary? Is her last name Green also? Year of birth and place? Same for little Elizabeth?
PB
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Can anybody please confirm the identity of these two deaths
Green, Henry, 39, Windsor. 2c 311
Deaths Sep 1899 (>99%)
Green, Henry, 38, Windsor, 2c 301Of
I am pretty sure that one of them was living with Mary nee Russel and Baby Elizabeth at Battersea in 1901 and would like to know more about the other
Were Mary and Elizabeth aware that they had a ghost living with them?
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Do you mean 1891? (Henry, Mary and Elizabeth in Battersea)
Here is a cut and paste of the relevant post
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea
Henry Green Head Mar 27 Horse keeper bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green Wife Mar 26 bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green Dau 1 bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell mother in law wid 62 Living on own means bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell son in law single 28 carman bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
I have searched BMD but can find no evidence of him.
By the transcription of this record on Ancestry someone has made the comment that Albert Harry should be Herbert Harry they say the original record was incorrect. Might be worth looking for a Herbert.
If so, we have already suggested that you try this death cert to kill him off:
Sep 1899: Green Henry 35 Wolverhampton 6b 392
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Thanks for your help. :)
GH Wolverhampton would fit well with what I have got. I thought that I had my tree looking pretty smart. That was until I spilled some coffee on the keyboard of my computer. Though looking on the bright side, the stuff that I have makes more sense. The problem might be due to my sloppy note taking or faulty maths.
Happy Christmas everybody.
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How can I find if William Kirtland was born about 1806 had any siblings?
He is conected with somebody who was born at Charlton on Otmoor 1796ish.
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Thanks to another poster, I have learned that an ancestor of Rab C. links both of my mother’s husbands to The Talk of the Town
http://www.britishmusichallsociety.com/robertnesbitt.pdf
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Spidermonkey said
Mary Ethel Redrup, formerly Tomkins and Green nee Russell was Ethel Elizabeth's mother (I think!)
Was married into the Redrup’s
That is probably one of the reasons that I heard so much about pubs when I was an infant.
I am trying to work out who Emma Redrup was before she married, can anybody help please
George Redrup
Of the Royal Brewery, Windsor
Died 27/ 2/96 aged 61
Widow Emma
At Park Street Windsor
Possible connections-
1866 Births June
REDRUP Richard Windsor 2c 401
1867 births
REDRUP Richard William Windsor 2c 45
1872 Deaths March
REDRUP George 38 Windsor 2c 28
1893 births Dec.
Redrup George Henry Windsor 2c 417
1928 Deaths March
Redrup Richard R 62 Wycombe 3a 123
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REDRUP, MARY ANN HILL
GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in WINDSOR Volume 02C Page 419
REDRUP, RICHARD HILL
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in WINDSOR Volume 02C Page 401
REDRUP, ABEL HILL
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in WINDSOR Volume 02C Page 427
Cannot see Richard William on GRO. Richard 1866 is indexed. As female.
Added Richard William is 1887 not 1867.
REDRUP, RICHARD WILLIAM VICKERS
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in WINDSOR Volume 02C Page 457
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But 1871 census has in New Windsor
George Redrup, 27 brewer
Emma. 26 his wife
And wife’s sister unmarried age 34. Helen BiRNEY (as transcribed) could be Bony or similar
Added. A subscriber has posted a correction to BOUG
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Thanks for that mckha
This is what lead me to asking the question
http://www.sloughhistoryonline.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=slough&f=generic_objectrecord_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=1&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=advanced_sform&tomonth=12&tc1=e&fromday=1&frommonth=01&toyear=1930&name=Redrup&fromyear=1880&today=30&partner=slough&s=aU93P3RVgPO
Apparently, the name Kirtland is associated with an address in Park Street.
Probably a pub called The Black Horse.
Mary Kirtland, b. abt. 1866 was married three times, once to a Richard Redrup who was a brewers dreyman and I thought there was probably some connection.
Edit Can I take it that Emma’s maiden name was Boug ?
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Here’s Ellen Boug with a younger George Redrup in 1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-RVQP
Cannot find a Boug / Redrup marriage though
Added, Birth further away than expected
REDRUP, GEORGE BOUG BOUG
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in LOUGHBOROUGH Volume 07A Page 115
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Edit Can I take it that Emma’s maiden name was Boug ?
Yes, I think so. I would be happier if I could see the marriage
Added
Found it
Marriages Jun 1858 (>99%)
Bong Emma Amersham 3a 443
Garner Thomas Amersham 3a 443
Redrup George Amersham 3a 443
Townes Mary Maria Amersham 3a 443
Towns Mary Maria Amersham 3a 443
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Did George have any brothers called Richard I wonder?
Hang on, I think I may already have that info but have not recorded it
Naughty me.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744537.msg5918023#msg5918023
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i did see the other marsh birth in auckland but given the long time difference i thought it unlikely but you never know. the only way to be sure would be to buy the birth cert. likewise the only way to be sure about lily brown would be to buy the marriage cert giving age, fathers name and occupation etc.
When Lily Brown was born on 9th Janurary 1901 in Sunderland, Durham, England, her father, William, a glassblower, was 24, and her mother, Ann, was 22. She married Elias Mackintosh Marsh in March 1921 in Auckland, County Durham.They had two children. The first called Ramsay Who was born at Auckland in December 1923.
Lily had second baby Antony Conceived at Auckland, 1936, but born at Slough died after being knocked down by a car on the Bath Road at Salt Hill Park, Slough in 1943
Lily died in November 1990 in Wokingham, Berkshire, England, at the age of 89.
I am not sure about lily’s father.
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Nifty1, I was wondering if you had looked for Lily and Elias in the 1939 Register to see what Lily has for her birthdate? I don't believe we are allowed to give the info here. If I have found the correct death registration in the GRO website it has a birth year of 1903?
PB
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Thanks for that Polar bear.
I have
Lily Brown was born on 9th Janurary 1901 in Sunderland, Durham, England, her father, William, a glassblower, was 24, and her mother, Ann, was 22. She married Elias Mackintosh Marsh in March 1921 in Auckland, County Durham.They had two children. The first called Ramsay Who was born at Auckland in December 1923.
Lily had second baby Antony, probably conceived at ArthurbStreet, Crook, Auckland, 1936, but born at Slough died after being knocked down by a car on the Bath Road at Salt Hill Park, Slough in 1943
Lily died in November 1990 in Wokingham, Berkshire, England, at the age of 89.
I am not 100% on the father being a glass blower though.
I will reevaluate the 1903 date ASAP.
I seem to remember finding a Marsh who lived at 50 ? London Road Wokingham in 1950/60s and wondering if that was Elias or James who was at Cippenham in 1939. I think that Elias got to Slough abt 1936/7. I am a bit tounge in cheek about the wedding cake icing decorator, though. He was a coal mimer who took bets on dogs in Crook. He probably headed for Slough because of the Greyhound track and proximity to race courses.
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Did you ever get the marriage cert for Lily and Elias to ascertain who Lily's father was and what he did for a living? How do you know her parents are William and Ann? And that she was born in Sunderland?
There seems to be more than one Lily in the 1911 census with a father William, mother Ann or Mary Ann if I remember correctly. One age 10 (b. 1901 Sunderland, Durham), one age 8 (b. 1903 Chester, Durham).
PB
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No. Unfortunately I do not have the cert.
I remember the problem of there being two possibilities but have forgotten what swayed me to go with what I posted.I had a facsimile of a family photo that I will try and recover that has names written on the back. It may be possible to reassess the situation then.
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I am wondering if No. 14873 Pte W. Lipscombe b. 1888 Boyne Hill Maidenhead and
With the Royal Berkshires d. Flanders 1915 has any connection with
Emma Lipscomb b. 1849, Cookham d. Windsor 1917 and do not have the means to find out.
Can anybody help me please ?