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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: bairn359 on Thursday 24 May 12 16:49 BST (UK)

Title: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Thursday 24 May 12 16:49 BST (UK)
Hello, hope you can help, here's what i have..

Janet Robertson
Born circa 1819 at Killin by Loch Tay Perthshire
8 Nov 1845 Married William McArthur Dunblane Perthshire
1851 res Bothy? Alloa
1861, 1871, 1881 census res Alva
1891 census at Dalginross with sister Mary?
Died 1895 Alva Clackmannanshire

DC lists parents as Donald Robertson (a shepherd) and Margaret Stewart

Janet may have had an older sister Mary Robertson ( born circa 1814 Killin married 1849 Robert McGregor )

Would like to find out..
More about Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart
Where is Janet on the 1841 census?
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Thursday 24 May 12 17:47 BST (UK)
Janet's birth

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mrh/
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Thursday 24 May 12 17:55 BST (UK)
The only marriage I can see Donald Robertson in Killin is to a Margaret Cameron in 1808?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mri/

Who notified Janet's death?




Links shrink - stretching page
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Thursday 24 May 12 18:02 BST (UK)
Children of Donald and Margaret

MARY ROBERTSON Christening: 22 DEC 1808 Killin, Perth, Scotland   
MARGARET ROBERTSON Christening: 15 JUL 1814 Killin, Perth, Scotland
JANET ROBERTSON Christening: 10 NOV 1817 Killin, Perth, Scotland
JOHN ROBERTSON  Christening: 10 AUG 1819 Killin, Perth, Scotland
DONALD ROBERTSON  Christening: 09 MAY 1823 Killin, Perth, Scotland

There also a submitted record for a Peter


Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Thursday 24 May 12 18:17 BST (UK)
What occupation was given on Janet's marriage cert?
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: Throth on Thursday 24 May 12 23:43 BST (UK)
Sorry, can't help you with itinerant shepherds but we have some nice images of Dalginross where Mary might have lived.

You can't see it from the Glentilt road but have to climb up to the pl;ateau above.

http://www.borenich.co.uk/Photo_Gallery.html#Dalginross

Throth
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Friday 25 May 12 02:11 BST (UK)
I dunno about the Margaret Cameron idea but Janet's mother-in-law's maidenname was also apparently Stewart so an error is a possibility.

I did see a possible 1806 marriage of a Donald Robertson of Pitaldonich and Margaret Stewart of Kinardochy, Dull recorded 11 Jun 1806 at Dull and 22 Jun at Blair Atholl that could be them? Killin is about 20 miles from Dull and Blair Atholl's even further.


Quote from: fifer1947
Who notified Janet's death?

1895 death notified by son William McArthur of Alva

Quote from: fifer1947
What occupation was given on Janet's marriage cert?

Marriage was 1845 (before Statutory Records) got info from IGI

Havn't found any occupation for Janet
Her husband William McArthur was a Brewery Labourer / Saw Miller / Woodcutter / Labourer
Her father Donald Robertson was a shepherd
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: Throth on Friday 25 May 12 08:13 BST (UK)
You can probably eliminate the Donald Robertson of Pitaldonich and Margaret Stewart of Kinardochy, Dull

Blair Atholl OPR, 1807
James, lawful son to Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart, spouse, in Pitaldonuich, born 6th and baptised 8th March.

Dull OPR, 16th March 1820
Alexander, son to Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart in Kinardochy was baptised.

1841 census for Foss, Dull.
Dwelling    Name    Age    Occupation    Birth-place
Kinardochy    
      Donald Robertson    60y    farmer    Perthshire
   Margaret Robertson    52y               Perthshire
   Christian Robertson    25y               Perthshire

1851 census, Christian's mother was still living at Kinardochy, but she was a widow and had reverted to her maiden name.

Dwelling    Name    Relation    Status    Age    Occupation    Birth-place
Kinardochy    
         Margaret Stewart    Head    widow    65y    pauper    Dull

Get back to us if contrary evidence emerges,

Throth

Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Friday 25 May 12 08:31 BST (UK)
OK so there's a query over the surname of Margaret Stewart or Cameron, but if Janet lived with a sister in later census had you considered checking her sister's death cert?  Both would have had the same mother. 

Mary married Robert McGregor not in Killin but in Comrie.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY39-T98

I live 7 miles from Killin and about 19 from Comrie.
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Friday 25 May 12 08:54 BST (UK)
On SP there are two deaths of Mary McGregor with mother's maiden name Cameron and three with a mothers maiden name Stewart before 1899 for the whole of Scotland.  We need to narrow that down a bit.

Where did Mary McGregor live?  Can you post the census data?
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Friday 25 May 12 10:23 BST (UK)
Oh that's a good idea about Mary :)

1841 ?
1849 married Comrie
1851 age 32 Mary McGregor res Dalginross, Comrie
1861 age 47 Mary McGregor res Turnpike Road, Comrie
1871 ?
1881 ?
1891 age 81 Mary McGregor Dalginross, Comrie, Perthshire

Robert McGregor was born Balquhidder
In 1851 he's an agricultural labourer
In 1861 he's a shepherd

In 1891 it's just Mary and Janet so maybe Mary's husband Robert was dead by then ?
Also likely Mary died between this 1891 census and Janet's death in 1895 ?
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Friday 25 May 12 11:12 BST (UK)
Okay i searched ScotlandsPeople with those parameters and bingo!

Mary McGregor widow of Robert McGregor shepherd Dalginross
Died 2nd Dec 1891 Dalginross Comrie age 83 (or a shaky 80 ? )
parents Robert Robertson ploughman deceased Margaret Robertson ms Stewart deceased
informant William McArthur nephew of Alva
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Friday 25 May 12 15:03 BST (UK)
Okay i searched ScotlandsPeople with those parameters and bingo!

Mary McGregor widow of Robert McGregor shepherd Dalginross
Died 2nd Dec 1891 Dalginross Comrie age 83 (or a shaky 80 ? )
parents Robert Robertson ploughman deceased Margaret Robertson ms Stewart deceased
informant William McArthur nephew of Alva

Darn that's a problem unresolved, same informant, same info!  I didn't expect that!  :D

Let me think about it again see what else I can come up with to resolve this issue.

ETA just realised he's got her father's name wrong, Robert instead of Donald!
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Friday 25 May 12 15:07 BST (UK)
Robert McGregor was born Balquhidder

Rob Roy McGregor live and was buried in Balquidder, his grave is just a few miles from me.  :)
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Friday 25 May 12 15:54 BST (UK)
OK did some checking on familysearch I think the marriage of Donald Robertson and Margaret Stewart in Blair Atholl and Dull 2 weeks apart are the banns called in both parishes ie just one marriage.

As that family is documented by Troth previously I guess that rules them out.

Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Sunday 27 May 12 11:06 BST (UK)
Killin OPR from Scotlands People

1808 Dec 22 Donald Robertson & Margt. Robertson Tullich
can had their lawful Dr baptized called Mary
then lawful Dr Margt baptized July 15th 1814
their lawful Dr. Janet baptized Novr 10th 1817
their lawful son John baptized Augt 10th 1819
their lawful son Peter baptized Decr 4th 1820
their lawful son Donald baptized May 19th 1823

I reckon this is the family of Margaret Stewart.

( Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron's Janet Robertson was 2nd Jan 1816 - OPR )
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Sunday 27 May 12 12:00 BST (UK)
This is all the marriages i can see that might fit but i'm still unsure if we can nail it down.

20 Feb 1789 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
02 Feb 1790 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
14 Nov 1795 Robert Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
25 Jun 1797 Robert Robertson Margaret Smith Clunie
03 Feb 1798 Donald Robertson Margaret Stuart Moulin
20 Jun 1798 Donald Robertson Margt. Strachan Collace
14 Mar 1800 Robert Robertson Margaret Ealge Lethendy And Kinloch
16 Sep 1802 Donald Robertson Catharine Stewart Fortingall
04 Nov 1804 Donald Robertson Margaret Scott Lethendy And Kinloch
1805 Donald Robertson Cathrine Stewart Muthill
06 Apr 1806 Donald Robertson Isobel Stewart Blair Atholl
11 Jun 1806 Dond. Robertson Margt. Stewart Dull
22 Jun 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
26 Dec 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Macintosh Perth
1808 Donald Robertson Mary Mcarthur Killin
28 Feb 1808 Donald Robertson Margaret Cameron Killin
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Sunday 27 May 12 12:47 BST (UK)
I was looking for either John or Donald from that family tbh, but I'm blowed if I can find either.   :-\

However there are obvious marriages you can discount from the Perthshire list ie the names other than Donald or Margaret.  Which leaves a list like this, and I think the first 4 are "outsiders" as they are a bit early.

20 Feb 1789 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
02 Feb 1790 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
03 Feb 1798 Donald Robertson Margaret Stuart Moulin
20 Jun 1798 Donald Robertson Margt. Strachan Collace

04 Nov 1804 Donald Robertson Margaret Scott Lethendy And Kinloch
11 Jun 1806 Dond. Robertson Margt. Stewart Dull
22 Jun 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Stewart Blair Atholl
26 Dec 1806 Donald Robertson Margaret Macintosh Perth
28 Feb 1808 Donald Robertson Margaret Cameron Killin
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Sunday 27 May 12 12:53 BST (UK)
Killin OPR from Scotlands People

1808 Dec 22 Donald Robertson & Margt. Robertson Tullich
can had their lawful Dr baptized called Mary
then lawful Dr Margt baptized July 15th 1814
their lawful Dr. Janet baptized Novr 10th 1817
their lawful son John baptized Augt 10th 1819
their lawful son Peter baptized Decr 4th 1820
their lawful son Donald baptized May 19th 1823

I reckon this is the family of Margaret Stewart.

( Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron's Janet Robertson was 2nd Jan 1816 - OPR )

Going by the above that would tie in with the submitted family on the IGI.  Perhaps worth following up on Peter as he appears to have a descendant interested in genealogy there may well be a tree out there already which you can check out?  His entry states Margaret Cameron as the mother.

PETER ROBERTSON    Birth:
04 DEC 1820      Killin, Perth, Scotland

Parents:
     Father:     DONALD ROBERTSON
     Mother:     MARGARET CAMERON
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Sunday 27 May 12 13:51 BST (UK)
"Jan 2 Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron Tullich cann a lawful Daur bap. called Janet" - Killin 1816 OPR Scotlands People 

another 5 credits and i'm even more confused :D

I don't know that i'm convinced. Is this even my ancestors? i just wish there was something more concrete.
The death records tie to my family but say Margaret's name is Stewart.

On a side note i wonder if Tullich refers to Tullich as in further north or Tulloch as in Perthshire.
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Sunday 27 May 12 16:08 BST (UK)
"Jan 2 Donald Robertson and Margaret Cameron Tullich cann a lawful Daur bap. called Janet" - Killin 1816 OPR Scotlands People 

another 5 credits and i'm even more confused :D

I don't know that i'm convinced. Is this even my ancestors? i just wish there was something more concrete.
The death records tie to my family but say Margaret's name is Stewart.

On a side note i wonder if Tullich refers to Tullich as in further north or Tulloch as in Perthshire.

The information on death certs is only as good as the knowledge of the informant  :-\

On Tullich/Tulloch I would think it's the Perth one, spelling wasn't standardised it was phonetic back then ie written as it sounded.

I've got a gut feeling this is your Margaret aka Cameron/Stewart or Robertson but checking out Peter's line might help because he may have married post 1855 and that would be a gift.
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Sunday 27 May 12 17:08 BST (UK)
As an aside, which may be pertinent if she followed naming pattern, what were the names and dob of janet's children?
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Sunday 27 May 12 17:50 BST (UK)
You have scored!  There is a child Janet, born Alva to your Janet in 1855 there is tons of info on 1855 certificates.

Name:    Janet Mc Arthur
Gender:    Female
Birth Date:    19 May 1855
Birthplace:    ALVA,STIRLING,SCOTLAND
Father's Name:    William Mc Arthur
Mother's Name:    Janet Robertson

Do you have that certificate?

William appears to be the youngest?  To be fair he probably knew little about his grandparents.

Name:    William Mc Arthur
Gender:    Male
Birth Date:    17 Sep 1858
Birthplace:    ALVA,STIRLING,SCOTLAND
Father's Name:    William Mc Arthur
Mother's Name:    Janet Robertson
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Monday 28 May 12 00:49 BST (UK)
I do now! :D

Amazing how much info you get off these 1855 records. I like how it confirms the number of children at the time.

Yes that's right, i have William McArthur as the youngest.

The children were Margaret c1846, John c1848, Mary c1850, Robert c1853, Janet 1855 and William 1858.
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Monday 28 May 12 01:38 BST (UK)
William strikes again!  ;D

b. 1891 Margaret Stewart McArthur in Alva
parents William McArthur and Jemima King married 1880 Alva

Actually that was a good point fifer1947 about the naming tradition.
Janet's second son was Robert not Donald and we know we haven't missed one because of the info on that 1855 BC
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Monday 28 May 12 08:16 BST (UK)
Good!  ;)  So now we are looking for Robert Robertson wife Margaret Stewart?
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Monday 28 May 12 08:22 BST (UK)
A bit earlier

ROBERT ROBERTSON          
Marriages:
     Spouse:     MARGARET STEWART    Family
     Marriage:  14 NOV 1795      Blair Atholl, Perth, Scotland
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: bairn359 on Monday 28 May 12 11:08 BST (UK)
Aye i'm now thinking the father was Robert and maybe Donald was the error rather than Margaret's maiden surname which has been consistent albeit from one source :)

11 Oct 1796 Donald Robertson
09 Aug 1798 James Robertson
19 Nov 1800 Alexander Robertson
06 Nov 1802 Isobel Robertson
28 Jun 1806 Charles Robertson
20 Oct 1808 Janet Robertson
15 Jul 1811 Robert Robertson
25 Jun 1813 Margaret Robertson

Hmmm this seems to be the children of Robert Robertson and Margaret Stewart from familysearch and their all baptised Blair Atholl. Interestingly first child called Donald so Robert's father's name may account for the possible error.

No Mary although there's a gap about 1804

In the 1851, 1881 and 1891 census Janet's birth place is given as Killin
In the 1861 and 1871 census her birthplace is given as Loch Tay

Och i dunno i think i'm losing the plot i'm imagining barmy theories like maybe they were visiting relatives when Margaret had Janet at Killin and baptised her back home at Blair Atholl their home parish lol
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Monday 28 May 12 15:04 BST (UK)
So the source of Killin is from census data?  But surely that would suggest they grew up there not necessarily born there?

The missing Mary from that family worries me too.
Title: Re: Robertson and Stewart
Post by: fifer1947 on Monday 28 May 12 15:07 BST (UK)
Can I suggest you pm MonicaL and ev they are darn good with these kind of puzzles.  especially where there is conflicting data.

Also they have access to other sites like A*****y which might prove useful.