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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Judy-Ann on Saturday 30 June 12 08:06 BST (UK)
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Has anybody anywhere come across this person in their research?
He married Elizabeth Dunn in 1810 and Maria possibly around 1818,if at all!
:o ::)
He and Elizabeth had several children starting with Maria Ann in 1810 and including Robert Swan Philips Junior in 1812.
I am descended fro Godfrey Dunn Philips born in 1819 and christened in Ealing in 1820 with mother given as Maria. I believe his brother Henry Dunn Philips may have had the same mother . His birth date is around 1822 apparently in Camberwell but no record found. He became a wealthy tobacanist at 1 Picadilly.
Benjamin Henry was christened in 1819 with mother given as Elizabeth.
Charlotte was born 1818 in St Pancras mother Elizabeth
Harriet was born 1816 in St Pancras mother Elizabeth
Robert is decribed variously as Agent and Army agent and had offices at 36 Golden square london in 1819. The Morpeth bit comes from another's research, but I believe it refers to the london area not Northumberland.
Any Pointers ?
Thankyou
Judy
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The first marriage is available, through Ancestry, from London Metropolitan Archives:
4th March 1810 at St Leonards, Shoreditch, by banns
Robert Philips, of this parish, bachelor
Elizabeth Dunn, of this parish, spinster
both signed.
Witnesses appear to be regular witnesses, as both names appear on other marriages!
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I have never heard of a Morpeth in London. There's only the one in Northumberland, and the one in New South Wales, as far as I know ???
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The Morpeth link comes from a former worldconnect link many moons ago, but there appears to be a Morpeth area of london but my geography of London is hazy to say the least.
I have a feeling that both Robert and Elizabeth were imports into shoreditch but have run into blanks as I cannot find deaths. Childrens marraige records indicate that Robert , certainly, survived well into the census era's but I havn't nailed him so far.
I have a working theory that he was born around 1789 but could be way out. There is an interesting marraige of and Enwin Philips to Sara swan around the right time but I havn't found the true record. I believe her father was Robert.
Any lights going on?
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The Morpeth link comes from a former worldconnect link many moons ago, but there appears to be a Morpeth area of london but my geography of London is hazy to say the least.
The "Morpeth, London" could refer to an address.....Morpeth Street, Morpeth Arms, etc. but I've never come across an area of London called Morpeth and I have branches in most parts of the capital. :-\
Nanny Jan
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Hi,
Robert Swan Philips, bpt 26 July 1812, St Leonard Shoreditch; son of Robert and Elizabeth Philips.
There is a "public tree" on Ancestry which gives a birth in 1792 in Bristol for a Robert Swan Philips.
Nanny Jan
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Edward Philips and Sarah Swan
25 April 1786 at Lambeth St Mary
witnesses Robert Swan and James Singleton
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Henry Dunn Philips has a mother with him in the 1871 census - aged 75, born Derbyshire, but what's the name ? Is it Mary Jefferson or Jefferton ? RG10/134/ 18/29
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Henry Dunn Philips has a mother with him in the 1871 census - aged 75, born Derbyshire, but what's the name ? Is it Mary Jefferson or Jefferton ? RG10/134/ 18/29
I think that may be his wife's mother. His wife was Elizabeth Huntley.
A Mary Huntley, widow, married Henry Jefferson in Shoreditch in 1847
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I had seen the Henry Dunn Mother a while ago and thankyou for helping to eliminate that line of enquiry. I thought that it might be mother in law but wasn't sure.
Benjamin Henry Philips son of Robert marries several times. he is a hat maker on the strand.
Charlotte Philips marries late and may have been living with a maria in one of the earlier census's but i've lost the record. Charlotte was born 1818 in st Pancras
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Charlotte Philips marries late and may have been living with a maria in one of the earlier census's but i've lost the record. Charlotte was born 1818 in st Pancras
That may be where the Morpeth comes from.
11 George Street, St James in 1851:
Maria Philips, widow, 59, born Morpeth
Charlotte Philips, daughter, 33 St Pancras
Maria Cox niece 3
Mary Cox, niece 9 months
Can't read the birthplaces of the two children
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Thankyou Shaun I've got good vibibes about that charlotte. :) Got a blank too about the little girls but seem to remember seeing a maria ann ,daughter of Maria marrying a cox.
I have got a feeling that they may have been born in pontypool area which could point to the Morpeth being monmouth ...
family legend is off wealthy son running off with ladies maid, but think this is clarence Godfrey henry frank born london 1864,but i am happy to be disabused of this notion! All contributions theories welcome. :P
Thanks All judy
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Have you seen this Gazette item from 1828, concerning Robert Philips, agent (bottom right of page):
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/18466/pages/866
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I have now!! I had seen something about a bankrupt but nothing so revealing. Do any other details come out from further articles? Who is this mysterious person involved in the long running dispute and what exactly does such an agent do?
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Thomas Western was t5he mysterious fellow ans he hailed from 35 castle st Holborn, at least that was his address in 1819. Is there anything explaining this case anywhere or a link to the debtors prison records I should look into?
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Thomas Western was t5he mysterious fellow ans he hailed from 35 castle st Holborn, at least that was his address in 1819.
However did you discover that?
Thomas George Western was a "conveyancer and equity-draftsman" - a kind of conveyancing solicitor, I suppose. The issue in Robert Philips' insolvency seems to revolve around a contract of sale of certain real estate which someone had placed in his care.
Western himself was in the debtors' prison by 1830.
See http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/18661/pages/481 (top left)
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/19029/pages/517 (left hand column toward the bottom of teh page)
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There's a report of Thomas George Weston's insolvency in The Morning Chronicle for Wednesday March 31st 1830.
He made his money by granting annuities - a sort of Ponzi scheme perhaps. He estimated his profit at £3,000 a year since 1821 - a huge sum in those days. He used the money to buy property, and then mortgaged the properties.
He went to America circa 1825 and returned to London after a couple of years, whereupon he was arrested for debt. He owed £34,000.
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Thomas Western was t5he mysterious fellow ans he hailed from 35 castle st Holborn, at least that was his address in 1819.
However did you discover that?
Thomas George Western was a "conveyancer and equity-draftsman" - a kind of conveyancing solicitor, I suppose. The issue in Robert Philips' insolvency seems to revolve around a contract of sale of certain real estate which someone had placed in his care.
Western himself was in the debtors' prison by 1830.
See http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/18661/pages/481 (top left)
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/19029/pages/517 (left hand column toward the bottom of teh page)
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Looked up reports of later Times of London and spotted the announcement of the meeting asnd name. Absolutely facinated by all this.
Have also nailed that Maria Philips of the 1851 census with a niece Mary cox were connected to Henry Dunn Philips. Mary Cox is visiting him and his newish wife and family in 1861!
The crossword is filling out at last. ::)
Got a bit of an issue with Maria Ann Philips daughter of Robert and Maria being christened in St Georges Surrey JAMAICA at the moment in 1844. Could Robert have been shipped out there during all the upsets of the era?
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1852 Nov 28, Hastings Sussex
John Robert FRENCH, father Francis Robert French
married
Harriot Elizabeth PHILIPS, father Robert Swan Philips
St Andrew Holborn
1842 Oct 24
Godfrey Dunn PHILIPS, full age, bachelor, Copper plate engraver, Gloucester Buildings Church Lane, father Robert Swan Philips, Accountant
Sarah Haliday CHILDS, full age, spinster, -, Gloucester Buildings Church Lane, father George Childs, Brush maker
Married after Banns
Both signed in presence of George Childs, Matilda Philips
Is this one of Robert's as well
St Mary Islington
1814 Apr 8, Alfred, s/o Robert & Elizabeth PHILIPS, Britannia Row, Army agent, born 1814 Mar 12
Ian C
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Got a bit of an issue with Maria Ann Philips daughter of Robert and Maria being christened in St Georges Surrey JAMAICA at the moment in 1844.
Per Familysearch the mother was Mary Ann. I had thought the father must be the Robert Swan Philips born 1812
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Godfrey Dunn is My ancestor and have the paper trail, if a bit sparse.
I think the Alfred one is, at least I put him in my pile earlier this year. I know the Original Robert had a daughter harriet but I've a feeling this Robert swan may just be Robert Swan Junior as he was born in 1812and could just have a daughter old enough to marry in 1852.
still to check on the marriages of the rest of the family. Thanks for confirming some of my stuff.
J
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Looking for Cox in Pontypool..... there's a Sarah Maria Cox born 1848, and a Mary Ann Cox born 1850..and a possible marriage of George Cox and Matilda Ann Philipps in Pontypool in 1847
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The little girls match. Maria Cox 3 in 1851 Mary 1 in 1851
Dates tally for Matilda still being Philips in 1842.
That would make the little cox girls niece by marraige to Maria Philips poss wife of Robert Swan Philips. Makes them cousins of Henry Dunn Philips.
Have found Mary M Philips in 1841 on northern side of Belgrave square aged 50 with
Harriott e aged 20; is this the one who Marries John Robert French?
Elizabeth A aged 15
Maria E aged 14
Thankyou
Judy
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1851 - HO107/1539/353/17
1 Queen/Green St, Bethnal Green
Henry T BROOKS, head mar 36, Traveller, born Middx, Spitalfields
Maria A BROOKS, wife mar 40, born, Middx, Shoreditch
Henry J BROOKS, son 11, Scholar, born Middx, Bethnal Green
Chas R BROOKS, son 9, Scholar, born ditto
Robert BROOKS, son 7, Scholar, born ditto
Alfred E BROOKS, son 1, born ditto
Harriot E PHILIPS, sister unm 34, born Middx, Islington
Parish Chapel, St Marylebone
1838 Oct 20
Henry Thomas BROOKS, full age, bachelor, Baker, 79 Earl Street, father Chas Brooks, Engineer decd
Maria Ann PHILLIPS, full age, spinster, -, 12 Little Tower St, father Robert PHILLIPS, Gentmn
Married after Banns
Both signed in presence of David Brooks, Jane Brooks
By 1861 Maria BROOKS is a widow.
Ian C
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I found the BROOKS census this morning but thankyou for the confirmation Ian.
That marriage had eluded me so I am now very happy. That sorts out the original Maria Ann and i have located Matilda Ann and George Cox down in Gravesend in 1861. Sarah M (their daughter) who survives to marry in london in 67 is with them. Mary ann is visiting her cousins....
Can anybody nail Robert (the apparent bankrupt) Swan PHIL(L)IPS anywhere after 1823? He has children so he's somewhere, possibly in a 'additional' marriage. Got a possible on Vauxall Bridge with another daughter Mary Ann in 1831.
If I can find his death I may find his birth because I think that it may be pONTYPOOL /BRISTOL/ MONMOUTH
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I now believe Robert was born to Edward Phillips and Sarah (nee swan) and died in 1848, at swan lane minories london. Still all wrapped up in mystery, especially what happened to Maria and or Elizabeth, weere they one and the same? If so some of the birthdate for children are a bit odd.
Find myself on business near pontypool tomorrow and wondering whether to visit graveyards...
If anybody out there has any further ideas, particularly about Robert and Maria I'd love to know. :D
Merry Christmas
Judy
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Hi,
There is a Morpeth Terrace in Victoria,London behind Westminster Cathedral. There is also a block of flats named Morpeth Mansions.
Jim
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Thank you. I have a feeling that may be where I need to look. The subject in question is actually Maria/ Elizabeth Dunn. Probably born around 1792. On 1851 census as Maria Phillips on St james square. Stepdaughter Charlotte is daughter of Elizabeth Dunn wife Of Robert Philips. Think there are two women. Crux f the issue is Birth of Benjamin Phillips and Godfrey Dunn Phillips. When was Benjamin born..?!