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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: LloydG on Wednesday 18 July 12 00:27 BST (UK)
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Henry David (my maternal gr grandfather) married Hannah Huet BATES in Nelson NZ 24 May 1870. Their marriage cert shows his parents as 'Richard James, and Elizabeth LLOYD, of Bridge St Nelson.'
I have been unable to find anything about Richard James and Elizabeth, (other than they arrived in Nelson on the 'Thomas Harrison' on 25 May 1842) or any other children they may have had.
Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated!
Lloyd Gleeson.
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Does it say whether Richard Lloyd is alive on the marriage certificate?
What does the shipping record say his profession was?
There is a Richard Lloyd death here but it pre-dates the marriage certificate?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ote/
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Possibly Elizabeth's death?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0otf/
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Thanks for the speedy reply! Yes, the marriage cert says 'In the presence of Richard James LLOYD and Elizabeth LLOYD'.
Sorry, I got the arrival info off a related family website, not from an actual shipping record, so have no further details.
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There seems to be only one birth entry around that time period for an Elizabeth and Richard LLOYD:
1848/1395 Lloyd NR Elizabeth Richard
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Here is the shipping list, that looks to be related to the Richard [no middle name] Lloyd that died as per above PapersPast entry.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0oth/
That would make Richard born 1816 and Elizabeth 1817 approx.
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A thought...seeing as Henry and Hannah got married at HIS parents place, you may be able to look through the Postal directories (ie Wises etc) and trace the parent's comings and goings fwiw? You may be able to link or eliminate the Richard at that address with whether he was a bootmaker?
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From the marriage cert, Henry was age 25 in 1870 so he would have been born abt 1845 and funnily enough, HIS occupation is shown as - Bootmaker!
Whilst the Death Notice for Elizabeth seems to be the right one, the one for Richard in 1856 only adds to my confusion! ("Rumours of my death have been grossly exaggerated." perhaps ;D )
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Just been hit by one of Terry Pratchett's "Inspiration Particles" ... perhaps the Marriage Cert was witnessed by his widowed mother Elizabeth - and the 'Richard James' was a BROTHER, NOT his (deceased) father????
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Might a monumental inscription help in the instance that one or other spouse is mentioned?
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I have been unable to find anything about Richard James and Elizabeth
Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated
Hello...
The "NZ Early Settlers CD" at my library has the early Jury Lists for Nelson. They list Richard LLOYD, shoemaker of Hardy Street from 1844 to 1847. Then they list Richard LLOYD, shoemaker of Bridge Street from 1848 to 1855. The Jury Lists continue for another six years.
There are no listings for Richard LLOYD after 1855 which seems to back up the death notice found by TwiggyTree.
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Have you looked at the 1845 and 1849 censuses of Nelson. They are held at the Wellington office of Archives NZ.
Both seem reasonably comprehensive. Apparently the 1849 census asks for place of birth.
Nelson census returns January 1845
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=16913265
Nelson census of 1849
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=16913267
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Have you looked at the following probate held at the Wellington office of Archives NZ.
LLOYD, Richard 1878 - Nelson High Court
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=20138704
I'm a little bit curious as I can't seem to find a corresponding death in any of the obvious places (BDM NZ, Burial Locator CD, Nelson cemetery website).
Don't know if it relates to your family but possibly ask a fellow rootschatter for a probate look-up, similar to this request...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,583765.0.html
Or there's a very real chance that the probate has been digitised and is viewable on-line courtesy of LDS. The only problem is that their indexing system is non-existent (regardless of what they say) so prepare for lots of clicking**
LDS - New Zealand, Probate Records, 1878-1960 (then click Nelson)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ox2/
EDIT:
**Definitely not criticising LDS :-) They've done (and continue to do) an amazing job.
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The Anglican Centre for the Diocese of Nelson holds baptism registers from 1842 onwards. The registers may mention the name of N/R that TwiggyTree found on the 1848 birth certificate. Unfortunately, if you can't visit Nelson in person it will cost.
Anglican Centre - Diocese of Nelson
http://www.nelsoncitycouncil.co.nz/anglican-centre-2
In fact, one day it might be worth a visit to the Nelson Provincial Museum. They seem to have most of what I've mentioned (except the probate)
Nelson Provincial Museum
http://www.museumnp.org.nz/library/researchoptions.htm
Regards
Beg
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Henry David (my maternal gr grandfather) married Hannah Huet BATES in Nelson NZ 24 May 1870. Their marriage cert shows his parents as 'Richard James, and Elizabeth LLOYD, of Bridge St Nelson.'
Hello Lloyd
I think I may be able to solve the "mystery" regarding "Richard James LLOYD". ;)
But firstly just a word about early NZ marriage certificates.
Up until 1881, these contained only minimal information - and unfortunately provision was not made for including the names of parents nor the places of birth, of the bride and groom.
It's helpful in the case of your 1870 certificate that persons with the same surname are witnesses to the marriage, but it shouldn't automatically be assumed that they are the parents of Henry David.
I see from a marriage notice >
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Nelson Examiner and NZ Chronicle" - 8 June 1870 - page 2
... that the marriage took place at the "bridegroom's residence".
I think though it's very likely that the witnesses are Elizabeth LLOYD, mother of Henry ... and that Richard James LLOYD is his brother. (Have further info on him which I'll add shortly. ]
see next >>
~ Lu
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Just digressing for a moment ...
I'd say the death of Richard LLOYD (1856) found earlier by Twiggy Tree, is the husband of Elizabeth / father of Henry David ... and this man appears to have left a will. [Cannot though confirm that it is the probate record held by Archives NZ, dated 1878. ?? ]
The following notice however, appeared in
"Nelson Examiner and NZ Chronicle" - 14 June 1856 - page 4 Advertisements
... [Extract] ... Persons indebted to the Estate of Richard LLOYD are requested to pay their accounts ....
E. LLOYD - Sole Executrix -- Bridge Street, Nelson - 20 May 1856.
~ Lu
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... and from Twiggy's other finds ...
Death of Elizabeth LLOYD (1880) - age 75* years, at her son's residence, Takaka.
[* If her age on the 1842 passenger list is correct, then this Elizabeth should have been aged around 65 (rather than 75) ?? ] ;)
Can confirm that Henry David LLOYD was living in Takaka from about 1875-6 (though oddly he still had a listing on the Nelson electoral rolls for quite a number of following years.)
Elizabeth LLOYD is buried (alone) at the East Takaka Cemetery.
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The 1848 birth registration of an un-named child born to Elizabeth and Richard LLOYD, matches very well to information I've found for a Richard James LLOYD.
see next >>
~ Lu
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... oops, forgot these ...
Elizabeth LLOYD's burial record can be found at the Tasman District Council's cemeteries database.
http://www.tasman.govt.nz/
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re: Richard LLOYD (d. 1856) :
Can't find his burial place, but I note there is a very old cemetery, Hallowell (also known as "The Old Burying Ground" and Shelbourne Street Cemetery) - so he may well be there ?
The Nelson City Council may be able to assist further (they apparently have a list of some of the earliest burials. )
http://www.nelsoncitycouncil.co.nz/
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NZ Death
1921 - LLOYD - Richard James - aged 72 years (bc 1849)
This I believe is the brother of Henry David LLOYD.
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Richard James LLOYD (a carpenter) married in 1876 at Temuka (Canterbury), to Marion CLINCH (born Islington, London 1860, d/o Stephen CLINCH and Sarah Jane WARD).
The marriage notice which appeared in the "Timaru Herald" - 24 November 1876, asked that "Nelson papers, please copy".
Obviously the 1876 marriage record won't help with confirming the parentage or place of birth for Richard James, (but his death record may be of help. ? )
~ Lu
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Richard James LLOYD and members of his family, are buried at Temuka Cemetery.
There is a photo of his headstone (though I found the inscription very difficult to decipher). Annoyingly too, some of the names* mentioned on the headstone, don't appear on the cemeteries database ... and Richard's entry is shown as "LLOYD - R. J. ".
[* Son, Walter Joseph, d. 1918 was sadly a WW1 death. He is buried at Somme, France. ]
http://www.timaru.govt.nz/cemetery-database2.html
~ Lu
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ADDING ... deaths for those on LLOYD headstone at Temuka.
"Timaru Herald"
-- 20 October 1893 - page 2
Death of Stephen Clinch LLOYD, aged 9 years
[Funeral notice on page 1 / column 6 ]
-- 18 February 1895 - page 2
Death notice for Marion, beloved w/o R. J. LLOYD
[Funeral notice - 19 February 1895 ]
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NZ Births
Children of Richard James and Marion LLOYD :
1878 - Richard John
1882 - Marion Matilda (d. 1882 aged 4 weeks)
1885 - Stephen Clinch (d. 1893 )
1886 - Caroline Elizabeth (m. Henry AMAS - 1913)
1889 - Sarah Ward (m. Owen James STILLS - 1913)
1893 - Walter Joseph (d. 1918 - France)
1895 - Marion Munro (can't see marriage or death ??)
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Hi again Lloyd
Just checked to see if there were others researching the family of Richard James LLOYD, and whilst I found 3 "trees" (@ Ancestry), the information is somewhat "light".
They did show that Richard James LLOYD was born at Nelson, c. 1849 ... but no parents named. :(
~ Lu
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Geez - how am I going to thank you folks! BIG HUGS to all! :-* and three cheers for RootsChat! My daughter married into a family who have a published book about their ancestors, and she was asking me about ours, and sadly I had not much other than old photos (mostly unnamed/undated) and foggy childhood memories of occasional visits from Aunts and Uncles I barely knew.
I really do appreciate the trouble you've gone to on my behalf, as I just didn't know where to start.
(Now for the Kossatz and Cordes, families from Prussia...!!)
What a gene mixture....
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Richard is also my great great grandfather. Richard and Elizabeth, according to my information had the following children:Caroline, Henry, and Richard James, who is my great grandfather. I have not been able to find out anymore than you about Richard and Elizabeth which is quite frustrating. If you find out anymore please let me know. My name is Grant. I live in Auckland. Richard James was a builder and was a partner in a firm called Clinch and Lloyd. They built several important buildings in Temuka such as the BNZ, the courthouse, the Anglican and Methodist churches. They also built the Ashburton flour mills.
By the way Richard,husband of Elizabeth, was the son of a David Lloyd who apparently was also a bootmaker and Elizabeth's father was a cooper. I hope I may have told you something you did not know. Interestingly I have little information about the descendants of Henry, of which you are obviously one. Any info would be appreciated.
Regards,
Grant Lloyd
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I notice you have been told the children of Richard James the builder and included is my grandfather, another Richard (middle name John). Like his Dad,he was a builder. He was married to Mary Shears but she died in 1904 after having four children. He then married Minnie Smith (my Grandmother) and they had a further 13 children. Two were born in the South Island and my Pop and Na then moved to Wellington where they had another 7 children, My Dad , Eric, being one.
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Correction to my previous post: Richard and Minnie had 9 children, not 13. Altogether Richard John had 13 children - 4 to Mary Shears and 9 to Minnine.
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Hi Grant! My email address is (*) and it would be great to hear from you and hopefully increase both our family trees!
Regards.
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