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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Carol20 on Monday 22 October 12 20:44 BST (UK)
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in 1851 my ancestor lived in number 1, Ridley Villas. This row of houses is now part of a street called New Bridge Street in Newcastle upon Tyne. Some of this row of villas are still there but a group in the middle have been redeveloped into student accommodation. The address for the remaining villas has changed but which would have been number 1. Google maps shows that both ends of this row of villas is still intact so I might be lucky and one has a stone insert on its wall that states Ridley Villas.
Hope someone can help
Carol20
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Hi
I think houses were usually numbered from the centre of a place, outwards? Not conclusive though.
If any of the row have a stone insert wouldn't you be able to see it using google street view? Or look on street view to find if there is a business name on the building you think is the right one - then email the business very nicely asking if their address used to be no 1 Ridley?
I have an interest in number 10, from the 1910's. I don't know the area.
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I don't think that the numbering of houses would start in the middle, I have never seen a numbering system of that sort. Usually start at one end and either go up one side of the street and down the other or odd numbers one side and even ones the other. Some of the modern estates seem to have a strange disjointed system though, having tried to find some in the middle of the night on call out.
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This may not help with the numbering problem but you may find it interesting.
http://www.newcastle-city-council.gov.uk/locallist.nsf/48f0f02a7e08705780256bea0035df1c/524131eca6722caf802570f200336cb1/$FILE/Ouseburn.Draft.List.pdf
and; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=48746307&postcount=86
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That didn't work. OK, the first one you need to click on the Ouseburn file [pdf] in the list
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I don't think that the numbering of houses would start in the middle, I have never seen a numbering system of that sort. Usually start at one end and either go up one side of the street and down the other or odd numbers one side and even ones the other. Some of the modern estates seem to have a strange disjointed system though, having tried to find some in the middle of the night on call out.
From the centre of Newcastle, not the middle of a row. ;D
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That didn't work. OK, the first one you need to click on the Ouseburn file [pdf] in the list
The links are fantastic. Thank you so much.
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Info from Trade Directories ( mainly Ward's) and Electoral registers.
New Bridge Street started at (right angles) Northumberland St.
Numbers started low odd . Ridley Villas was integral part of New Bridge St.
As an address Ridley Villas disappeared between 1920 and 1922.
e.g. 3 Ridley Villas became 93 New Bridge Street. 9 1/2 Ridley Villas
became 107 NBS.
In 1920 J H Bunton, commercial agent, lived at 10 Ridley Villas.
Michael
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Thank you Michael
Your info from the trade directories confirms that what is now 91 New Bridge Street, with the inserted stone with the name Ridley Villas on it must have been No 1, where my ancestors lived, went bankrupt and at least one died. If 93 NBS was formally No 3. from historic maps I know there was only one side to this group of houses. I already had youngtugs link to a document about No 91 New Bridge Street (now confirmed as formally No1 Ridley Villas ) with additional info as to why the building was saved, when No 3 and unfortunately I believe N0 10 for Angelfish 's interest and several more along the street, where bulldosed for Student accommodation, it was because of its archaeological importance.. not the house but what was underneath the house and garden.
Sorry cannot remember where I got this original from..
Ridley Villas, New Bridge Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Archaeological Assessment [Site name: RIDLEY VILLAS, NEW BRIDGE STREET, NEWCASTLE Study area: Investigation type: Desk-based District: Newcastle-upon-Tyne Monument: SIEGEWORK. Post-medieval (1540-1901), DEFENCE. Post-medieval (1540-1901) Ngr: NZ25506450 Parish: Newcastle-upon-Tyne St John Postcode: ]
Pages:
46; pls; figs; refs
Authors:
Frain T; Mabbitt J; A McMaster
Publisher:
Tyne & Wear Museums Archaeology Department
Published:
2004
Abstract:
An archaeological assessment was compiled in response to a proposal to redevelop the site. The site was potentially one of great archaeological interest, as the available evidence marked it as the location of Shieldfield Civic War Fort. This earthwork was an intrinsic part of the defences of the city during this period of great unrest and a monument class on which a relatively small amount of archaeological research had been undertaken. It was highly likely that the remains of the defensive ditches would remain within the site. Further archaeological evaluation was recommended.
Big Thanks for confirming what I had hoped for
Carol
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Thank you :)
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Ridley Villas Trivia.
Newcastle Central Library ( on New Bridge Street) holds a useful map of Newcastle of 1830. The map annotates houses and buildings with names of owners/occupiers.
Ridley Villas is a row of 10 detached buildings on the north side of the road, an "island" surrounded by cultivated open land. The first four (from the town centre direction) and last four buildings are divided as semi-detached. The fifth (middle) building has no division. In front of the first building is a smaller building called the Toll House. And across the road the Toll Bar is marked ( a barrier to enable collection of passing fees for traffic.
The index shows that Sir Matthew White Ridley, M.P., owns the Toll House and one or two of the detached houses.
Michael
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Thanks again Michael for the Ridley Trivia
I have evidence that the family I am researching LUNN, lived in Ridley Villas at least by 1827 (house No not confirmed) and up to the death of my gggg grandmother in 1836 but had left by the 1841 Census. James Lunn was a Ship and Insurance broker, he went bankrupt in 1841, then his brother John Lunn appears in the 1851 Census as living at No 1 Ridley Villas. At this point I am not sure if it is the same property or if they ever owned or just rented.
I hope in the near future to be able to spend a day in Newcastle to extend my research at the library as before the became respectable Ship brokers they ran a Public House under what is now the law courts which sounds much more interesting. Would this 1830 map also have on public houses in Spicer Lane as I am interested in one called The Phoenix?
Thanks again for your interest
Carol
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Thanks again Michael for the Ridley Trivia
I have evidence that the family I am researching LUNN, lived in Ridley Villas at least by 1827 (house No not confirmed) and up to the death of my gggg grandmother in 1836 but had left by the 1841 Census. James Lunn was a Ship and Insurance broker, he went bankrupt in 1841, then his brother John Lunn appears in the 1851 Census as living at No 1 Ridley Villas. At this point I am not sure if it is the same property or if they ever owned or just rented.
I hope in the near future to be able to spend a day in Newcastle to extend my research at the library as before the became respectable Ship brokers they ran a Public House under what is now the law courts which sounds much more interesting. Would this 1830 map also have on public houses in Spicer Lane as I am interested in one called The Phoenix?
Thanks again for your interest
Carol
Newcastle is a lovely place to visit, and the archives are in the Discovery Museum building :)
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Carol,
A browse thu Newcastle Trade Directories.....
Pigot 1822. John Lunn, The Phoenix, Spicer Lane
Pigot 1829 John Lunn, The Pheonix, Spicer Lane.
Commercial Directory. 1833/4.
John Lunn, Victualler, Turks Head, 14,Quayside.
James Lunn, Ship & Insurance broker, 31, Quayside.
Residence 8,Ridley Villas.
Commercial Directory. 1839.
John Lunn, vict., Turks Head, 14,Quayside.
James Lunn, Ship & Insurance Broker, 31 Quayside
Residence 52 Leazes Terrace.
Commercial Directory. 1841.
John Lunn, Turks Head, 14, Quayside
J.Lunn, Ship and Insurance Broker, Coal Fitter, "Three Indian Kings, Quayside.
----------------------------------------
Ward's 1851 has brewer William Welford at 1 Ridley Villas, J. Lunn at 2 Ridley Villas.
( Ridley Villas numbered 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, then 19, then 10.)
Internet shows at least one foto of opening of Spicer Lane off Quayside.
And William Welford at the brewery in Spicer Lane, and three more unnamed
taverns- and mention of a Frederick Lunn !
Source: Newcastle Central Library.
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Michael
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Michael
A big thank you for all the trade directory references. My earliest was for Frederick Lunn at the Phoenix, Spicer lane in 1827 from a reference in the Newcastle Courant, downloaded from the British Newspaper Achieve, on line site. it now seems that brother John was running it before, in 1822 then after in 1828, then the family end up living next door to William Welford who possible owned the Phoenix. The newspaper archive provided lots of advert references to James Lunn through his business interests. I have found the image you mentioned and also there was a watercolour painting of Spicer Lane by an artist called Mr Frank Thompson, he also did Broad Chare. Using the 1861 map of Newcastle I have a list of the 4 inns/taverns in Spicer Lane and the position of the Brewery owned by Welford, obviously the Phoenix got renamed so I will try to use a process of deduction to work out which one it was , it is such a shame that they all now form the foundations of the law courts and the Three Indian Kings seems have been redeveloped into apartments, how much of the original building remains behind the glass façade is doubtful.
As you are obviously a regular visitor to the Newcastle Central Library would you advise booking the use of e.g. fiche readers in advance of a visit and is there a 'quiet day' during the week? I am currently making a list of all my 'target' bits of information I want to find out about when I make my visit to Newcastle so I can make full use of my day.
Thanks again
Carol
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Carol,
There is no booking system for fiche and film readers- there are many fiche readers so no inconvenience there. There are about six film readers and sometimes they are all taken, usually Saturdays ! BMDs , Parish records, etc on fiches. Back newspapers on film.
My Newcastle Library membership gets me online access to the UK newspaper archive.
Michael,
Newcastle
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Thanks again for the info, I might be able to visit Newcastle in the next couple of weeks and hopefully collect additional info to help with my research
Carol
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Hello Carol,
Though this thread is a couple of years old, I hope that you are still here.
I too have an interest in #91. From an article in the British Medical Journal, 16 April 1921, that is given as the address of Dr. W. H. Dickinson, sometime Tuberculosis Officer for Newcastle and nephew of Dr. John Dickinson, medical missionary with Livingstone in Africa.
http://www.hayloft.eu/tyneside%20martyr.html (http://www.hayloft.eu/tyneside%20martyr.html)
I don't yet know if that was WHD's home address or his office address. Did you come across the surname Dickinson in your researches there?
The Dickinsons, originally from Jarrow, are one of my problem families. I lose track of them after early WWI.
Dr W. H. Dickinson was the son of William Henry Dickinson, longtime Alderman and sometime Mayor of Jarrow and his wife Anne Mary Lee, daughter of a South Shields shipowner.
Dr. W. H. Dickinson was the grandson of John Dickinson, butcher, of Jarrow and Margaret Moor(e).
Cheers,
Westoe
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Sorry for the late reply, been away from my computer for a week.
Unfortunately I have not come across W H Dickinson, but I believe that Ridley Villas was his office address. The remaining property still called 'Ridley Villas' where the LUNN family lived, died or went bankrupt, is unusual in that it still exists, where all the other properties that were also called Ridley Villas were demolished and I believe now have student accommodation for Newcastle university built on top. I wondered how or why it had survived, but I came across the following document from Tyne and Wear Museums Archaeology Department:
Name: Ridley Villas, 91, New Bridge Street, Shieldfield,
ID: 195 Ward: Ouseburn
STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE: These Georgian villas of the 1820s were once part of a row of grand houses and may have been designed by John Dobson. The villas were built on land belonging to Sir Matthew White Ridley. Domestic use of the villas ceased in 1913/1914 when the building was converted into a TB hospital. By the 1960s Ridley Villas was being used as a general medical unit, which closed in 1972. The two storey brick and stone villas are now a hostel.
Ridley Villas, New Bridge Street, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Archaeological Assessment [Site name: RIDLEY VILLAS, NEW BRIDGE STREET, NEWCASTLE Study area: Investigation type: Desk-based District: Newcastle-upon-Tyne Monument: SIEGEWORK. Post-medieval (1540-1901), DEFENCE. Post-medieval (1540-1901) Ngr: NZ25506450 Parish: Newcastle-upon-Tyne St John Postcode: ]
Pages:
46; pls; figs; refs
Authors:
Frain T; Mabbitt J; A McMaster
Publisher:
Tyne & Wear Museums Archaeology Department
Published:
2004
Abstract:
An archaeological assessment was compiled in response to a proposal to redevelop the site. The site was potentially one of great archaeological interest, as the available evidence marked it as the location of Shieldfield Civic War Fort. This earthwork was an intrinsic part of the defenses of the city during this period of great unrest and a monument class on which a relatively small amount of archaeological research had been undertaken. It was highly likely that the remains of the defensive ditches would remain within the site. Further archaeological evaluation was recommended.
I have visited the house and the area next to it is called Shieldfield. I am not sure what the property is still used for but it does not look residential.
Sorry I could not help with your ancestors only their place of work.
Carol
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Thank you, Carol, for this reply. Yes, I believe you are correct about this being his office address. Still, it is nice to have that established. Another tiny piece of the life-long jigsaw puzzle put into place.
Cheers,
Westoe
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sorry for this very late reply but I have only just come across this post
The person I am interested in is Jane Millen who in the 1841 census is listed as a family servant of Edward Hammond occupation "agent" living in Ridley Villas. She is my g.g. grandmother.
I notice that Youngtug's avatar is a soldier in dress uniform. Jane's father was in the 6th Dragoon guards, he died in 1824. Is there any connection?
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None whatsoever I'm afraid. My avatar was in the Royal Horse Guards.
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Hi Westoe
This reply is probably too late for your enquiries listed in Reply #17 on: Tuesday 09 June 15 19:22 BST (UK), but I noticed your reference to the Dickinsons as one of your 'problem families'. If that is still the case, I may be able to help since I am related to Dr W H Dickinson's branch of the family and know something of them after the period when you say you lose contact.
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Hello Tyne Thames,
Welcome to RootsChat. I'm delighted to "meet" you here.
After you have made three posts to the forum, the PM (personal messages) option becomes available to you. I'll post a link to a related thread today. If you then post an acknowledgement of that, you'll have made two posts towards your three and have only to make another one.
John Dickinson, butcher, of Jarrow, was a long-time friend and occasional co-investor in ships with Enoch Donkerley Thompson, grandfather of Anne Mary (Lee) Dickinson through her mother Ann (Thompson) Lee, who was EDT's eldest daughter.
There is a very long (29 pages) thread here on Rootschat about the Thompsons, Lees and related families.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=194825.280 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=194825.280)
If you persevere in reading through it all, I think you will find some snippetts of interest.
Meanwhile I am going through my binders on the Dickinsons to decide just what to ask you.
Cheers,
Westoe