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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: LloydG on Tuesday 23 October 12 22:17 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find more about Georg and Anna Kaina (aka Kasner) who arrived on the 'Albert' from Capetown Nov 1864 with their children, Maria, Anna, Elisabeth and Frederick and I believe were farming in the Waipipi area. Frederick died without leaving a son so the Kaina family name was lost. Georg was on the 1881 Electorl roll as 'Farmer, Waipipi'. Anna (the daughter) was my maternal gr grandmother.
Any info appreciated!
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On NZ BDM there is the birth of a Frederick John KAINA 1879. Parents Frederick & Elizabeth.
Minniehaha.
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Well... how did I miss THAT! Thank you.
Looks like Anna (the mother) died in 1903 too.
The family was Wendish, from Drehnow, Prussia. They emigrated to Sth Africa via Hamburg in 1859, then on to NZ. There was another daughter too that I forgot to mention - Christiana, and I have found what happened to all the children except Elisabeth (aka Lissa).
I did think it was her who married Lawrence Hanlon in 1882, but that was Frederick's widow!
Would really like to know what became of Lissa, and find a date of death for old Georg, (and now - Frederick John!) Maybe one day...
Thanks for the super-prompt reply - RootsChat is the BEST!
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Have pm'd details of a Kaina death 2011, together with that of Anna 1903 (aged 92) and Frederick 1879 (aged 30).
Minniehaha.
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You probably already have this:
Marriage of Frederick Kaina 1877 to Mary Elizabeth Waddoups.
Minniehaha.
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From "Papers Past":
New Zealand Herald, 30.11.1864, the arrival of the 'Alfred Bremen' from Cape of Good Hope.
Includes passengers-
Mary Elizabeth & Matilda Waddoups.
Minniehaha.
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A little more from "Papers Past"
The New Zealand Herald, dated 31.8.1875,
Waiuku Court, "man named Kaina..............etc.,"
Same newspaper dated 4.5.1876,
Land Sale- Frederick Kaina, Parish of Onewhero.
Minniehaha.
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On NZ BDM there is the birth of a Frederick John KAINA 1879. Parents Frederick & Elizabeth.
Minniehaha.
Hi LloydG
Following the re-marriage of Frederick John's mother (Mary Elizabeth), he may well have been brought up under the surname of his step-father, Lawrence Francis HANLON ?
Possible death ?
1917 / 5240 - HANLON - Frederick John - 37 years [bc 1880 ]
~ Lu
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I am trying to find more about Georg and Anna Kaina (aka Kasner) who arrived on the 'Albert' from Capetown Nov 1864 with their children, Maria, Anna, Elisabeth and Frederick.
There was another daughter too that I forgot to mention - Christiana, and I have found what happened to all the children except Elisabeth (aka Lissa).
Hi again
Re: Your search for the daughter "Lissa".
Just thought I should point out a number of "discrepancies" which exist in the various passenger listings for those who were aboard the "ALBERT" 1864. One of the listings (ex Archives NZ) just makes me wonder whether "Lissa" in fact existed ?
I expect you already have the KAINA family details (indexed as KASNER), from the Auckland Libraries Passenger Lists indexes ? And there is a child "Lissa" on that list.
* The list of immigrants per the "Albert" as published in the
"New Zealand Herald" (and mentioned earlier) - 18 November 1864 - Shipping Intelligence, records the KAINA family, thus >
Christian and Frederick KALNER; George, Anna, Marie, Ann E and Lisa KALNER;
[Spellings as per newspaper article. ]
* The "Daily Southern Cross" (Auckland) also published the immigrant's list - 18 November 1864 - where the family is named as "KASNER" [and the other associated family as, "WADDOPS" ;D ]
continued next >>
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... continued -- Immigrants per the "ALBERT" to Auckland - arr. 18 November 1864 :
Then there is this list ... which according to the acknowledgement at bottom of page, has been transcribed from the passenger list, held by Archives New Zealand. [I can't guarantee it, but would like to think the info provided is accurate. ]
The family's name is shown as KAINA ... but there is no "Elisabeth / Elizabeth, or Lissa" ?
Per "ALBERT" - 1864 (Archives NZ Ref: Micro 5019 )
KAINA
-- George - 48 years - Labourer
-- Anna (48)
-- Marie (27)
-- Ann (21)
-- Christiane (17)
-- Frederick (10)*
[Note: I see Frederick KAINA died 1879 aged 30 years [bc 1849 ]. The age on the passenger list has probably been mistransribed ? (e.g. depending on the handwriting, a "16 (or 15)" might have looked more like a "10" ? ]
So if the Archives' holding is a copy of the ship's original manifest, then that would be the most reliable source of passenger information.
~ Lu
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Can we find the burial place of Anna, the mother who died in 1903 aged 92 years? This may lead us to the burial place of her husband George. One suspects that his surname may be indexed under another spelling at BDM.
Minniehaha.
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Anna (the daughter) was my maternal gr grandmother.
Hi again Lloyd
Just thought I'd ask, because I can't see a marriage for Anna (the daughter).
* Did Ann / Anna, have a second christian name ?
The newspaper article had her name as "Ann E" and it made me wonder whether she had a second name - perhaps "Elisabeth" ? And also whether she had been shown on the list as "Ann E" (with Lissa or Lisa as a pet name ?), so as to distinguish her from her mother. ??? [Sure, having the ages of passengers would / should, be enough to tell them apart. ;D But often too the clerks recording the immigrant's names, got them wrong - especially the unfamiliar "foreign" names. ]
~ Lu
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Can we find the burial place of Anna, the mother who died in 1903 aged 92 years?
Hi Minnie,
Maybe the following. Maybe not...
Anna KAMA - Waikumete Cemetery - d.o.d 14 Jun 1903
http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/cemeterydetails.aspx?id=160478
BDM NZ Deaths - 1903/2494 - KAINA, Anna - 92 years - d.o.d 14 Jun 1903
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... the burial place of her husband George. One suspects that his surname may be indexed under another spelling at BDM.
Maybe the following for George
BDM NZ Deaths - 1897/5530 - KAIUA, George, 83Y
Can't see any obvious burial. May need to check microfiche for a location to see if it's worth chasing up.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Beg,
Re Anna, I think maybe....... The "I" & "N" could look like an "M" is written closely together (?)
I will try and do a newspaper look up for this, if Lloyd has not already got a copy.
If I have time, I will try for George as well because that looks promising too. Can you do a date for me on that one too?
Minniehaha.
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Hi Minnie...
5 Nov 1897
Regards
Beg
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Excellent Beg. I will have a crack at these.
Minniehaha.
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"Papers Past" again:
Don't know if this entry belongs to you Lloyd, but in the Auckland Star dated 22.8.1900 there is an item about the Renewal of Old Age Pensions to........... Kaina Anna (Maori) £18.00. All the other names are shown with Christian names first.
Minniehaha.
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I see the funeral director for Anna Kama was C LITTLE & SONS LIMITED ,the records for Littles are at the Auckland Library and usually contain all the information for the death cert.
Cheers Janette
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I will have a look at their records Janette.
Minniehaha.
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Hi
George KAINA - last listed in 1890 - Franklin Roll
KAINA - George - farmer - freehold - 15 acres at Waipipi
Franklin area burials not available online (but maybe KHP can help ? )
~ Lu
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The death registration fiche for 1903 clearly shows the name of KAINA Anna.
Also the fiche for 1897 clearly shows the name of KAINA George. His death was registered @ Awhitu.
I noted the details archived re the funeral directors account.
C Little, Undertaker, Embalmer, Marble Arch, Hobson Street, Auckland.
Date of death:14th June 1903.
Instructions for the Funeral of Anna Kaina from Little Sisters.
Medical attendant:Dr. Bayntu(?)n
Clergyman:R.C.
Hearse:-------
Number of carriages:-------
Description of coffin:--------
Which cemetery:Waikumete Govt. £2.2.0
Date & time of funeral:Wednesday. 2 p.m. Wednesday 17th.
Bearers:--------
Hat bands:---------
Conducting:-------
Advertising:--------
Not many details at all for this one. I asked at the library about the "Govt." written beside the name of the cemetery and the suggestion was the possibilty that it may have been a pauper's grave.
Minniehaha.
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Anna was buried in
Plot : ANGLICAN DIVISION F Row 15, Plot 50
Interesting it was a RC funeral and she was buried in an Anglican, plot maybe there was no family and as she had been in Little Sisters of the Poor they organised the funeral,it would not be a paupers grave.
The Govt beside Waikumete may indicate it was a council cemetery rather than a church cemetery
Cheers Janette
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Yes I noted the burial in the Anglican part of the cemetery but the clergyman was R. C. I feel that because all the details re expenditure were blank except for the plot/burial cost, this possibly led the library staff into thinking that it may have been a pauper's grave.
Minniehaha.
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Hey thanks for the massive help everyone! Yes Elisabeth is turning out to be the mystery one. She was born in Drehnow Prussia in 1845 as Elisabeth KOSSATZ. Her father died in 1850 and her mother Anna married again - to Georg KAINA in 1854. The whole Kaina family emigrated to South Africa in 1859 and Elisabeth is on the passenger list. It's the passenger list for the 'Alfred' to NZ in 1864 that she's not on, although she is (? Lissa ... or E-Lissa) in the newspaper report of the arrival. (Her sister Anna was 'just Anna'.) For some reason her 3 sisters reverted to using their birthname KOSSATZ, but I can't find Elisabeth under either name! She would have been age 19 when the family arrived in NZ.
(As if a budding genealogist hasn't enough to deal with without these crazy mis-spellings, but considering they would have been hardly 'fluent' in English and probably only wrote in Wendische, I guess I should consider myself lucky!)
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Seeing as the KAINA's religion was Wendish, the undertaker probably flipped a coin regarding the last rites - and it came down RC for the funeral and Anglican for the burial!
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Anna was in a RC home for the elderly poor when she died
Cheers Janette
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Hi again. I've been told the Kaina farm was across the road from the Waddoups Farm (that was subsequently sold to the Aylward family), and that the adjacent road junction was for years known locally as 'Kaina's Corner'.
It would be nice to be able to pinpoint the location or find the actual road names that 'Kainas corner' was on. The Waiuku Library/Museum confirms there are Waddoups graves in the Waipipi Cemetery, but had nothing at all on the Kaina family. In fact they'd never even heard of them!
With George's death being registered in Awhitu it would seem likely he was buried locally... but there is no on-line cemetery lists for the Waiuku/Waipipi/Awhitu area. Can anyone suggest a possible avenue to persue?
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Update - George's death record on BDM NZ has now been changed from KaiUa to Kaina at my request, so thanks for the detective work finding it in the first place Beg! Turns out he IS buried in Waipipi Cemetery but his grave is unmarked - probably originally had a wooden marker/cross that has long gone.
So that's got most of my queries solved - thank you all.
The only one remaining is the mystery of Elisabeth/Lissa ...did she actually come with the family on the "Alfred" from South Africa? She would have been 19 so may have married and stayed in SA - or had possibly died there before the family relocated to NZ. She's not on the ships passenger list - but IS included in the newspaper report of the arrivals! Which would be more likely to be correct, I wonder. Hard to imagine the newspaper including someone who wasn't there, but I've found no record at all of her being in NZ...
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We're back to crazy mis-spellings again! George's burial record for the Waipipi Cemetery shows him as George KINNA !!! It also shows that his was the second burial in that plot... which begs the question - who was the first??? There doesn't seem to be an earlier record (but of course it could be spelled China, or even Cholmondley.... one other researcher suggested that the family was originally Celtic and the correct spelling should be CAONAGH would you believe!)
Anyway - my money is on it being the last resting place of my lost Elisabeth.
She was left off the Passenger List, so there's no reason why she shouldn't be left off the Burial list too!
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Meant to add that I've located the Kaina farm, and Kaina's Corner! (Just in case anyone is interested.)
It was on the northwestern corner of the crossroads of Craig Rd and Oldfield Rd, and the Waddoups' farm was on the northeast corner.
My thanks to all who helped me with this!!
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Re the mystery 'other burial' in the 'KINNA' plot in Waipipi cemetery...
It MAY be George's son - Freidrich, who'd died 18 years earlier. His death is recorded in BDM OnLine ref 1879/4352 so I COULD get a transcription of the death register entry from them... (but being Wendish, I'm loth to spend money getting it solely for the 'place of burial' info - that might not even be recorded anyway.)
Anyone got another suggestion?
(I'm actually hoping the 'other burial' is the elusive step-daughter Elisabeth/Lissa.)
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Hi all
I've been researching the Hanlon/Kaina part of my family tree. Ann Aylward (1900-1996) was the daughter of Matilda Waddoups, sister of my great grandmother Mary Elizabeth Waddoups. Mary's first husband was Frederick Kaina, and after he died, she married Lawrence Hanlon.
I'd be grateful for any information on the sale of Frederick Kaina's farm (known as Kaina's Corner) by John Waddoups to his son-in-law Thomas Aylward and his wife Matilda Waddoups. The farm was at the crossroads of Craig Rd and Oldfield Rd, Waipipi. Apparently there was a dispute over the farm after John Waddoups died, as Matilda's other sisters (Mary, Harriett, Georgina) weren't mentioned in the will. According to one of Harriett's descendants, one of the Hanlons took it to court for the other sisters. I don't intend to re-litigate on behalf of the Hanlons but am just interested in all of this as family history! I can't find any mention of this court case in Papers Past or elsewhere, so maybe it never happened.
I'd also be interested in any birth info on Matilda and Mary. On 9 July 1858 John Waddoups, Ann Halford, and their daughter Harriet sailed from Liverpool to Cape Town on the Edward Oliver, arrived Table Bay CapeTown 12 September 1858. On 27 September 1864 John, Ann, and their children Harriet, Mary Elizabeth and Matilda sailed from Cape Town on the Alfred, and arrived in Auckland 18/11/1864. Mary and Matilda's death certificates stated they were both born in South Africa. However, I've searched South African websites and been unable to find their birth certificates - just wondering if anyone has these or any other info on this?
Finally I'd be interested to know what what happened to the youngest sister Georgina Waddoups (born in Waipipi in 1867). Apparently there's a record of her having a baby under her maiden name, no father's name was on the cert. The family story was that she went to Australia.
many thanks
David Hanlon
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=620886.0
A little more from "Papers Past"
The New Zealand Herald, dated 31.8.1875,
Waiuku Court, "man named Kaina..............etc.,"
Same newspaper dated 4.5.1876,
Land Sale- Frederick Kaina, Parish of Onewhero.
John Waddoups' will 1895 (to son in law Thomas Aylward, husband of Matilda Waddoups)
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Awaddoups~%20%2Bother_year%3A1894-1896~&collection_id=1865481
My tree on Ancestry.com
https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/tree/34552179/family
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I've just been given a possible clue regarding my missing Elisabeth KOSSATZ... It concerns the death in South Africa of Elizabeth, wife of the late William Frederick ZIMMERMANN (nee KOSSATZ) 18 Nov 1891, born in Germany/Prussia Feb 1845. My Elisabeth may not have come to NZ at all, or came and returned shortly after! How can I go about finding if the Zimmermanns were already married when they emigrated to South Africa (thus proving this isn't my Elisabeth), or where and when they did marry (and see if the dates are a possible fit). As I mentioned earlier, the Departing Passenger List when the 'ALFRED' left SA for NZ did not include Elisabeth, but the Passenger Arrival List here DID! So there was always some doubt.
Any suggestions how to proceed would be welcome!