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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: jibba on Saturday 10 November 12 15:46 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
I’m trying to trace the origins of my 11th great-grandmother Elizabeth Sheafe (c.1610). The earliest (current) record of her is in her marriage licence to Valentine Austin. They married on 29 July 1634 at St Margaret’s Canterbury. She is listed as a spinster, 24 years old, and the daughter of Sarah Sheafe.
After looking at a few sites, and confirming them against what PR records I have, the following are also listed as daughters of Sarah Sheafe
Sarah (d.1658) x1 Timothy Titherton(d.1678) 10 Aug 1633 at St Gregory & St Martin, Wye
Mary x1 John Tetherton 26 Nov 1639 at St Margaret, Canterbury
The problem is trying to find the baptism records for these sisters, of which I have been unsuccessful as I cannot find a matching fathers name for all three. There is a prisoner called Thomas Sheafe who was buried at Wye in 1633. This could be their father or a possible brother, as both Elizabeth’s and Sarah’s eldest sons are called Thomas, but this is currently not proven
I believe that Elizabeth and her family are related to the Sheafe family from Cranbrook, given that other Sheafe’s around the Canterbury area share similar names with them, and it would be nice to confirm this
Is there anyone out there that has studied the Sheafe name in Kent, and might be able to point me in the right direction? Is there anyone who might be able to find out if the above Thomas is relative of Elizabeth, and what his crime was?
Regards
Lee
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Hi Lee,
There are a lot of Sheafes in Cranbrook. I have a Sheafe connection by marriage. My 11th x gt grandfather Henry Gibbon 2nd marriage was to Anne Sheafe in 1584 Benenden. Anne was previously married to John Knatchbull. My Sheafes originated from Cranbrook.
If you google Elizabeth Sheafe in books, there is a baptism for Elizabeth Sheafe dau of Thomas bap 20th June 1613 Cranbrook in the book "The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, Volume 4".
There also a son Richard bap 1612, a daughter Margaret bap 1614 and possibly a son Thomas.
I have also found a burial for Thomas Sheafe in Cranbrook 12 Feb 1627 which fits in with his death before his daughter's marriage in 1634.
Hope that helps!
Gillian
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There are several SHEAFE wills which might be worth investigating
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p1/ekp_p1n_shar.html
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_s.htm
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Hello Lee,
Elizabeth Sheafe of whom you speak is also my 10th-great-grandmother. Like you, I too, have been attempting to find the origins of her family. She was the third wife of Valentine Austin.
I have been through extensive records of the Cranbrook group and can find no evidence to support a connection there, except a slim possibility that the mother was Sarah Gyllebrand, the former wife of Harman Sheafe. Harman died young and left behind two known girls bearing similar names to the girls of our mutual Sarah and also born at appropriate times for the Titherton marriages.
However, I have been trying to following the family Edmond Sheafe, who is claimed to be a brother on two of the girls marriage licences as well as one Timothy Sheafe. Although no relation is stated for Timothy Sheafe I would expect that he would have been a brother, uncle or close cousin. I do have some notes on Edmond and Timothy but do not have them at hand as I write this quick reply to your posting.
The Thomas in Elizabeth and Valentine's family is, I believe, named for Valentine Austin's brother, Thomas, in the place of the Thomas born to Valentine's second wife, that Thomas having died as an infant.
It is interesting to note that there is a distinct possibility that another direct Sheafe cousin married into the same Austin line - a descendant of Valentine's son , to wit:
SHEAFE, Caleb married AUSTEN, Mary on 22 Nov 1683, she 20, spinster, do Matthew, maltster, of Wye & Caleb Sheafe, bachelor, 28, of Willesborough Canterbury ML. Caleb had a brother named Edmund, also at Willesborough.
I would be interested in hearing your line of descent from this family. Mine is through Henry Austin and Mary Rigden.
Regards,
Susan
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Hi Susan
Sorry for the delay in replying. I had also seen the names Harman and Caleb turn up in various registers. They must be related, but as you said it is trying to find those elusive links to confirm that they are from the same family.
My link to Valentine and Sarah is via their son Thomas, whom you mentioned above, and his wife Jane Gibbs
Regards
Lee
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Hi Lee
Elizabeth Sheafe is also my ancestor through her marriage to Valentine Austen [his second marriage]. Their daughter Elizabeth Austen was married to John Kennett from Wye. At the moment I have the same information as you regarding her mother and siblings. I have also found Sheafes in Cranbrook and other parishes but so far I haven't established who the father of Elizabeth and her siblings is yet. I have found references to several wills but not yet looked at them.
I look forward to hearing from you and other Sheafe researchers and seeing if we can trace Elizabeth's family.
Best Wishes
Matt
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Hello Lee,
Elizabeth Sheafe of whom you speak is also my 10th-great-grandmother. Like you, I too, have been attempting to find the origins of her family. She was the third wife of Valentine Austin.
I have been through extensive records of the Cranbrook group and can find no evidence to support a connection there, except a slim possibility that the mother was Sarah Gyllebrand, the former wife of Harman Sheafe. Harman died young and left behind two known girls bearing similar names to the girls of our mutual Sarah and also born at appropriate times for the Titherton marriages.
However, I have been trying to following the family Edmond Sheafe, who is claimed to be a brother on two of the girls marriage licences as well as one Timothy Sheafe. Although no relation is stated for Timothy Sheafe I would expect that he would have been a brother, uncle or close cousin. I do have some notes on Edmond and Timothy but do not have them at hand as I write this quick reply to your posting.
The Thomas in Elizabeth and Valentine's family is, I believe, named for Valentine Austin's brother, Thomas, in the place of the Thomas born to Valentine's second wife, that Thomas having died as an infant.
It is interesting to note that there is a distinct possibility that another direct Sheafe cousin married into the same Austin line - a descendant of Valentine's son , to wit:
SHEAFE, Caleb married AUSTEN, Mary on 22 Nov 1683, she 20, spinster, do Matthew, maltster, of Wye & Caleb Sheafe, bachelor, 28, of Willesborough Canterbury ML. Caleb had a brother named Edmund, also at Willesborough.
I would be interested in hearing your line of descent from this family. Mine is through Henry Austin and Mary Rigden.
Regards,
Susan
Hi Susan
I've just read your post with a lot of interest, in fact I had to read it twice! I've just posted a reply to Lee's initial post about the Sheafe family of Wye and having read your message I thought I should add another reply.
Elizabeth Sheafe is my ancestor through his marriage to Valentine Austen. I see that you have this as his third marriage, however I only have a record of two. On 24 September 1625 he married Jane Terrell [widow] in the parish of Brook. The marriage was by Licence and both were described as 'of this parish'. Valentine was 30 and is described as a bachelor and Jane was 22. Jane died in about 1634 and Valentine married Elizabeth Sheafe of Wye. This time he is described as a widow and she is described as a virgin, and again the marriage was my Licence and took place at Canterbury (St Margaret), Kent. Her age was testified by her brother Edmond Sheafe, and the bondsman was Timothy Titheron of Wye. Her sister Sarah married Timothy on the same day at Wye, and Valentine Austen was the bondsman to this marriage. Another sister, Mary, married John Titterden [Titherton?] of Boughton Aluph on 29 November 1639 at Canterbury (St Margaret), and again the bondsman was Valentine Austen. There is also mention of a Timothy Sheafe who might be a brother. These details are taken from the Canterbury Marriage Licences: Second Series.
I would be interested if you have any other details on either Valentine's marriages or any details about the Sheafe family.
I know that Valentine was the son of Matthew Austen and his wife Tomasin Austen and I have copies of the Wills of Matthew, Tomasin and Valentine if you are interested in those. Valentine was born in Chilham in 1595 and had brothers called Thomas and Henry. I also know that Valentine and his wife Jane had a son named Matthew born in 1629 who I guess was probably the father of the Mary Austen who married Caleb Sheafe in 1683.
I would be very interested to hear back from you and hopefully we can find out some more details about both the Sheafe family and the Austen family.
Best Wishes
Matthew
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There are several SHEAFE wills which might be worth investigating
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p1/ekp_p1n_shar.html
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_s.htm
These links no longer appear to be working.
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Hi Susan
Sorry for the delay in replying. I had also seen the names Harman and Caleb turn up in various registers. They must be related, but as you said it is trying to find those elusive links to confirm that they are from the same family.
My link to Valentine and Sarah is via their son Thomas, whom you mentioned above, and his wife Jane Gibbs
Regards
Lee
Hi Lee
I was wondering if you had any details on Jane Gibbs or her parents. I also have Gibbs [or Gibbes] in my tree and again they are connected [although not directly] to the Austens and Sheafes. My ancestor was Margaret Gibbs who married William Kennett, who himself was the son of John Kennett and Elizabeth Austen [daughter of Valentine Austen and Elizabeth Sheafe].
I know that Margaret Gibbs had a brother named William and that they were the children of William Gibbs and Margaret Hall but at the moment I have no other details about the family. I would be really grateful if you can add anything to this.
Many thanks and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Matt
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There are several SHEAFE wills which might be worth investigating
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p1/ekp_p1n_shar.html
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_s.htm
These links no longer appear to be working.
This index of wills has moved.
They can now be searched at
https://wills.canterbury-cathedral.org/
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There are several SHEAFE wills which might be worth investigating
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p1/ekp_p1n_shar.html
http://www.kentarchaeology.ac/ekwills_a/series/ekp_p2/ekp_p2n_s.htm
These links no longer appear to be working.
This index of wills has moved.
They can now be searched at
https://wills.canterbury-cathedral.org/
Thanks for that.
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Hi Matthew,
My apologies for not having responded to your last post to me regarding Valentine Austin and his several wives.
The first 'wife' was revealed only through a baptism at Wye of a Mathew Austin, 1 November 1615 which reads, "Mathew Austen the son of Valentine Austen and Katherine the daughter of Thomas Terrall, baptised" . I have searched many parishes in an attempt to find the marriage of Mathew and Katherine but with no success. Likewise, I have also searched for a burial for Katherine, also without success. Unfortunately, the baptism entry is somewhat ambiguous as it could be construed that Mathew was an illegitimate child of Valentine and Katherine. However, as Mathew was baptised with the Austen surname and having regard to the strict protocol concerning the identification of illegitimate children, it would appear, on the face of it that Valentine and Katherine were married. Of course, only finding the missing events will settle the possibility of whether or not Valentine and Katherine were actually married to each other or not.
The second wife then becomes Jane Terrall who is described on the marriage licence as being a "virgin":
Valentine Austen, of Brook, yeom[an], ba[chelor], about 30, and Jane Terrell, s.p. [of the same], v. [virgin], about 22, d[aughter] of Mary Terrell, alias Dence s.p. [of the same place], w. [widow], who consents. At the same. Sept. 24, 1625.
Source for the above entry: Marriage Licences of the Archdeaconry of Canterbury, vol. 2, 1619-1660, col. 37.
The marriage entry at Brook on 27 September 1625 reads in part, "she "eius matertera ----?" [his mother's sister i.e. his maternal aunt, or a kind of "goddess" ----?]
Source of the above entry is the Archdeacon's Transcripts of Brooke.
I think in this context the relationship is stated and not some fanciful description of his fondness for Jane. I have to question, however, if the vicar used the correct Latin term and perhaps meant that Jane was the sister of Katherine Terrall. Sadly, we may never know the truth of this matter unless the former marriage to Katherine Terrall can be found.
Hence the third marriage consists of the marriage to Elizabeth Sheafe.
I also have the marriages and licences of Sarah Sheafe and Mary Sheafe.
I also have the three Wills - Mathew, Thomasine and Valentine Austin.
Despite having searched numerous parishes around Wye and Adisham, I have not yet found the marriage of Mathew Austen to Thomasine. Have you found that marriage? I wonder as you have Thomasine recorded with the surname of Austen.
In total, Mathew and Thomasine Austen had 6 sons:
1, Richard baptised 5 May 1588 at Adisham. This Richard is referred to as an uncle in the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown proved 1 Nov 1661, the son of Mathew and Thomasine Austen of Wye. Richard is described as being of Wye at the time of death of Thomas in 1661.
2. Mathew baptised 19 Jul 1590 at Adisham.
3. Henry baptised 8 Oct 1592 at Adisham. He married Agnes Marsh 4 May 1626 at St. Peter, Canterbury.
4. Valentine baptised 31 Aug 1595 at Chilham - my 10th great-grandfather.
5. William baptised 2 Apr 1598 at Chilham. I have no further information for this fellow.
6. Thomas baptised 28 Mar 1602 at Chilham; died 15 Aug 1661 at Harbledown. The Will of this fellow refers to father Matthew Austen of Wye and a legacy to Elizabeth daughter of Henry Austen, deceased. Testator's uncle Richard Austen of Wye and testator's uncle Thomas Austen of Chillenden. Robert Beake of Hackington one of the overseers.
Now, to touch on Elizabeth Austin, daughter of Valentine Austin and Eliabeth nee Sheafe: I have this Elizabeth having married Stephen Wood, she of Wye, he of Hastingleigh on 29 Oct 1661 at Wye.
There are also the following two Elizabeth Austin's, both granddaughters of Mathew and Thomasine Austin, for which I have no burials or marriages:
1. Elizabeth Austin baptised 13 Aug. 1636 at Chilham, the daughter of Henry Austin and Ann Marsh; and,
2. Elizabeth Austin baptised 1 Mar 1631 at Brooke, the daughter of Richard Austin and Elizabeth nee Raynes.
I look forward to receiving your response, particularly so in regard to your Elizabeth Austin's marriage to John Kennett.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Hi Matthew,
My apologies for not having responded to your last post to me regarding Valentine Austin and his several wives.
The first 'wife' was revealed only through a baptism at Wye of a Mathew Austin, 1 November 1615 which reads, "Mathew Austen the son of Valentine Austen and Katherine the daughter of Thomas Terrall, baptised" . I have searched many parishes in an attempt to find the marriage of Mathew and Katherine but with no success. Likewise, I have also searched for a burial for Katherine, also without success. Unfortunately, the baptism entry is somewhat ambiguous as it could be construed that Mathew was an illegitimate child of Valentine and Katherine. However, as Mathew was baptised with the Austen surname and having regard to the strict protocol concerning the identification of illegitimate children, it would appear, on the face of it that Valentine and Katherine were married. Of course, only finding the missing events will settle the possibility of whether or not Valentine and Katherine were actually married to each other or not.
The second wife then becomes Jane Terrall who is described on the marriage licence as being a "virgin":
Valentine Austen, of Brook, yeom[an], ba[chelor], about 30, and Jane Terrell, s.p. [of the same], v. [virgin], about 22, d[aughter] of Mary Terrell, alias Dence s.p. [of the same place], w. [widow], who consents. At the same. Sept. 24, 1625.
Source for the above entry: Marriage Licences of the Archdeaconry of Canterbury, vol. 2, 1619-1660, col. 37.
The marriage entry at Brook on 27 September 1625 reads in part, "she "eius matertera ----?" [his mother's sister i.e. his maternal aunt, or a kind of "goddess" ----?]
Source of the above entry is the Archdeacon's Transcripts of Brooke.
I think in this context the relationship is stated and not some fanciful description of his fondness for Jane. I have to question, however, if the vicar used the correct Latin term and perhaps meant that Jane was the sister of Katherine Terrall. Sadly, we may never know the truth of this matter unless the former marriage to Katherine Terrall can be found.
Hence the third marriage consists of the marriage to Elizabeth Sheafe.
I also have the marriages and licences of Sarah Sheafe and Mary Sheafe.
I also have the three Wills - Mathew, Thomasine and Valentine Austin.
Despite having searched numerous parishes around Wye and Adisham, I have not yet found the marriage of Mathew Austen to Thomasine. Have you found that marriage? I wonder as you have Thomasine recorded with the surname of Austen.
In total, Mathew and Thomasine Austen had 6 sons:
1, Richard baptised 5 May 1588 at Adisham. This Richard is referred to as an uncle in the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown proved 1 Nov 1661, the son of Mathew and Thomasine Austen of Wye. Richard is described as being of Wye at the time of death of Thomas in 1661.
2. Mathew baptised 19 Jul 1590 at Adisham.
3. Henry baptised 8 Oct 1592 at Adisham. He married Agnes Marsh 4 May 1626 at St. Peter, Canterbury.
4. Valentine baptised 31 Aug 1595 at Chilham - my 10th great-grandfather.
5. William baptised 2 Apr 1598 at Chilham. I have no further information for this fellow.
6. Thomas baptised 28 Mar 1602 at Chilham; died 15 Aug 1661 at Harbledown. The Will of this fellow refers to father Matthew Austen of Wye and a legacy to Elizabeth daughter of Henry Austen, deceased. Testator's uncle Richard Austen of Wye and testator's uncle Thomas Austen of Chillenden. Robert Beake of Hackington one of the overseers.
Now, to touch on Elizabeth Austin, daughter of Valentine Austin and Eliabeth nee Sheafe: I have this Elizabeth having married Stephen Wood, she of Wye, he of Hastingleigh on 29 Oct 1661 at Wye.
There are also the following two Elizabeth Austin's, both granddaughters of Mathew and Thomasine Austin, for which I have no burials or marriages:
1. Elizabeth Austin baptised 13 Aug. 1636 at Chilham, the daughter of Henry Austin and Ann Marsh; and,
2. Elizabeth Austin baptised 1 Mar 1631 at Brooke, the daughter of Richard Austin and Elizabeth nee Raynes.
I look forward to receiving your response, particularly so in regard to your Elizabeth Austin's marriage to John Kennett.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Thanks for the update. It will take me a bit of time to go through the details you've sent as I haven't looked at the Sheafe family for several weeks and have been focusing on other lines.
I've got some Wills and I've drawn up a tree for the Austen family and I'll compare that with the notes you've sent.
Hopefully I'll have an update for you tonight.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
Don't worry. There is no need to rush back a response. I know, all too well, what it's like to juggle multiple lines with competing needs.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Hi Matt,
Don't worry. There is no need to rush back a response. I know, all too well, what it's like to juggle multiple lines with competing needs.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
I had a quick look last night and a more detailed look at lunchtime today. Do you have a copy of the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown (1661)? If so can you send me a copy?
Also is it possible to send me copies of the Marriage Licences you mentioned?
Thanks in advance
Matt
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Hi Matthew,
My apologies for not having responded to your last post to me regarding Valentine Austin and his several wives.
The first 'wife' was revealed only through a baptism at Wye of a Mathew Austin, 1 November 1615 which reads, "Mathew Austen the son of Valentine Austen and Katherine the daughter of Thomas Terrall, baptised" . I have searched many parishes in an attempt to find the marriage of Mathew and Katherine but with no success. Likewise, I have also searched for a burial for Katherine, also without success. Unfortunately, the baptism entry is somewhat ambiguous as it could be construed that Mathew was an illegitimate child of Valentine and Katherine. However, as Mathew was baptised with the Austen surname and having regard to the strict protocol concerning the identification of illegitimate children, it would appear, on the face of it that Valentine and Katherine were married. Of course, only finding the missing events will settle the possibility of whether or not Valentine and Katherine were actually married to each other or not.
The second wife then becomes Jane Terrall who is described on the marriage licence as being a "virgin":
Valentine Austen, of Brook, yeom[an], ba[chelor], about 30, and Jane Terrell, s.p. [of the same], v. [virgin], about 22, d[aughter] of Mary Terrell, alias Dence s.p. [of the same place], w. [widow], who consents. At the same. Sept. 24, 1625.
Source for the above entry: Marriage Licences of the Archdeaconry of Canterbury, vol. 2, 1619-1660, col. 37.
The marriage entry at Brook on 27 September 1625 reads in part, "she "eius matertera ----?" [his mother's sister i.e. his maternal aunt, or a kind of "goddess" ----?]
Source of the above entry is the Archdeacon's Transcripts of Brooke.
I think in this context the relationship is stated and not some fanciful description of his fondness for Jane. I have to question, however, if the vicar used the correct Latin term and perhaps meant that Jane was the sister of Katherine Terrall. Sadly, we may never know the truth of this matter unless the former marriage to Katherine Terrall can be found.
Hence the third marriage consists of the marriage to Elizabeth Sheafe.
I also have the marriages and licences of Sarah Sheafe and Mary Sheafe.
I also have the three Wills - Mathew, Thomasine and Valentine Austin.
Despite having searched numerous parishes around Wye and Adisham, I have not yet found the marriage of Mathew Austen to Thomasine. Have you found that marriage? I wonder as you have Thomasine recorded with the surname of Austen.
In total, Mathew and Thomasine Austen had 6 sons:
1, Richard baptised 5 May 1588 at Adisham. This Richard is referred to as an uncle in the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown proved 1 Nov 1661, the son of Mathew and Thomasine Austen of Wye. Richard is described as being of Wye at the time of death of Thomas in 1661.
2. Mathew baptised 19 Jul 1590 at Adisham.
3. Henry baptised 8 Oct 1592 at Adisham. He married Agnes Marsh 4 May 1626 at St. Peter, Canterbury.
4. Valentine baptised 31 Aug 1595 at Chilham - my 10th great-grandfather.
5. William baptised 2 Apr 1598 at Chilham. I have no further information for this fellow.
6. Thomas baptised 28 Mar 1602 at Chilham; died 15 Aug 1661 at Harbledown. The Will of this fellow refers to father Matthew Austen of Wye and a legacy to Elizabeth daughter of Henry Austen, deceased. Testator's uncle Richard Austen of Wye and testator's uncle Thomas Austen of Chillenden. Robert Beake of Hackington one of the overseers.
Now, to touch on Elizabeth Austin, daughter of Valentine Austin and Eliabeth nee Sheafe: I have this Elizabeth having married Stephen Wood, she of Wye, he of Hastingleigh on 29 Oct 1661 at Wye.
There are also the following two Elizabeth Austin's, both granddaughters of Mathew and Thomasine Austin, for which I have no burials or marriages:
1. Elizabeth Austin baptised 13 Aug. 1636 at Chilham, the daughter of Henry Austin and Ann Marsh; and,
2. Elizabeth Austin baptised 1 Mar 1631 at Brooke, the daughter of Richard Austin and Elizabeth nee Raynes.
I look forward to receiving your response, particularly so in regard to your Elizabeth Austin's marriage to John Kennett.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Do you have a copy of the 1661 Will of Thomas Austen? If so could you email me a copy if possible.
Best Wishes
Matt
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Hi Matt,
The Canterbury marriage licences, series 2, 1619-1660, can be viewed and downloaded free at
https://archive.org/details/canterburymarria02cant (https://archive.org/details/canterburymarria02cant).
The licence for Valentine Austen and Jane Terrall is in column 37.
I will PM you with the Will of Thomas Austen. It is several pages long.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Hi Matt,
The Canterbury marriage licences, series 2, 1619-1660, can be viewed and downloaded free at
https://archive.org/details/canterburymarria02cant (https://archive.org/details/canterburymarria02cant).
The licence for Valentine Austen and Jane Terrall is in column 37.
I will PM you with the Will of Thomas Austen. It is several pages long.
Sincerely,
Susan
Many thanks for sending me the Will.
Matt
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Hi Matthew,
My apologies for not having responded to your last post to me regarding Valentine Austin and his several wives.
The first 'wife' was revealed only through a baptism at Wye of a Mathew Austin, 1 November 1615 which reads, "Mathew Austen the son of Valentine Austen and Katherine the daughter of Thomas Terrall, baptised" . I have searched many parishes in an attempt to find the marriage of Mathew and Katherine but with no success. Likewise, I have also searched for a burial for Katherine, also without success. Unfortunately, the baptism entry is somewhat ambiguous as it could be construed that Mathew was an illegitimate child of Valentine and Katherine. However, as Mathew was baptised with the Austen surname and having regard to the strict protocol concerning the identification of illegitimate children, it would appear, on the face of it that Valentine and Katherine were married. Of course, only finding the missing events will settle the possibility of whether or not Valentine and Katherine were actually married to each other or not.
The second wife then becomes Jane Terrall who is described on the marriage licence as being a "virgin":
Valentine Austen, of Brook, yeom[an], ba[chelor], about 30, and Jane Terrell, s.p. [of the same], v. [virgin], about 22, d[aughter] of Mary Terrell, alias Dence s.p. [of the same place], w. [widow], who consents. At the same. Sept. 24, 1625.
Source for the above entry: Marriage Licences of the Archdeaconry of Canterbury, vol. 2, 1619-1660, col. 37.
The marriage entry at Brook on 27 September 1625 reads in part, "she "eius matertera ----?" [his mother's sister i.e. his maternal aunt, or a kind of "goddess" ----?]
Source of the above entry is the Archdeacon's Transcripts of Brooke.
I think in this context the relationship is stated and not some fanciful description of his fondness for Jane. I have to question, however, if the vicar used the correct Latin term and perhaps meant that Jane was the sister of Katherine Terrall. Sadly, we may never know the truth of this matter unless the former marriage to Katherine Terrall can be found.
Hence the third marriage consists of the marriage to Elizabeth Sheafe.
I also have the marriages and licences of Sarah Sheafe and Mary Sheafe.
I also have the three Wills - Mathew, Thomasine and Valentine Austin.
Despite having searched numerous parishes around Wye and Adisham, I have not yet found the marriage of Mathew Austen to Thomasine. Have you found that marriage? I wonder as you have Thomasine recorded with the surname of Austen.
In total, Mathew and Thomasine Austen had 6 sons:
1, Richard baptised 5 May 1588 at Adisham. This Richard is referred to as an uncle in the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown proved 1 Nov 1661, the son of Mathew and Thomasine Austen of Wye. Richard is described as being of Wye at the time of death of Thomas in 1661.
2. Mathew baptised 19 Jul 1590 at Adisham.
3. Henry baptised 8 Oct 1592 at Adisham. He married Agnes Marsh 4 May 1626 at St. Peter, Canterbury.
4. Valentine baptised 31 Aug 1595 at Chilham - my 10th great-grandfather.
5. William baptised 2 Apr 1598 at Chilham. I have no further information for this fellow.
6. Thomas baptised 28 Mar 1602 at Chilham; died 15 Aug 1661 at Harbledown. The Will of this fellow refers to father Matthew Austen of Wye and a legacy to Elizabeth daughter of Henry Austen, deceased. Testator's uncle Richard Austen of Wye and testator's uncle Thomas Austen of Chillenden. Robert Beake of Hackington one of the overseers.
Now, to touch on Elizabeth Austin, daughter of Valentine Austin and Eliabeth nee Sheafe: I have this Elizabeth having married Stephen Wood, she of Wye, he of Hastingleigh on 29 Oct 1661 at Wye.
There are also the following two Elizabeth Austin's, both granddaughters of Mathew and Thomasine Austin, for which I have no burials or marriages:
1. Elizabeth Austin baptised 13 Aug. 1636 at Chilham, the daughter of Henry Austin and Ann Marsh; and,
2. Elizabeth Austin baptised 1 Mar 1631 at Brooke, the daughter of Richard Austin and Elizabeth nee Raynes.
I look forward to receiving your response, particularly so in regard to your Elizabeth Austin's marriage to John Kennett.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you on the Austens and Sheafes. I thought I'd let you know that I believe that I have now made some progress on the Sheafe line and can identify Elizabeth Sheafe's ancestors.
I haven't made much more progress on the Austen line although I hope to visit the Canterbury Cathedral Archives in the next two weeks and do some more research on them there.
What I can say is that it looks like we have to look outside of Wye for the Austens and Sheafes.
Anyhow I will try and update update you in the next week with a basic tree or details.
Hope you are well
Matt
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Hi Matt,
My apologies for being out-of-contact with you for the past little while. The tech issues became too big to surmount and rushing to get client work under control before our FHC shut-down for August and a steep learning curve getting a new computer up and running have left me a little exhausted. However, over the next week I will re-acquaint myself with the information we left off at and send an email to you.
In the meantime, the AUSTIN line for our mutual Matthew AUSTIN runs like this:
Matthew's father was:
Richard AUSTIN born circa 1512-1515, at Wickhambreaux, Kent
buried Dec 1592 at Adisham
His Will Consistory Court of Canterbury PRC32/37-89 written 21 May 1592, proved 13 February 1592/3
I have this Will.
Married Agnes a'DENNE
born circa 1520 at Barham
buried 23 Mar 1588 at Adisham.
Richard AUSTEN'S father was:
Robert AUSTEN
born circa 1479, likely at Wickhambreaux, Kent, England
buried 26 Nov 1544 at Adisham
His wife was named Elizabeth [surname unknown at this time].
She was buried 31 Oct 1538 at Adisham.
A possible lead on Robert's father comes in the manner of an Archdeaconry Court Will for:
AUSTEN Robert, Wickhambreaux, 1487, Court: AD 17 RW, v. 4, fol. 133, FHL #0188920
However, there are other Wills that should also be examined in order to develop the AUSTEN family at Wickhambreaux and Adisham more succinctly:
SURNAME NAME RESIDENCE YEAR WILL TYPE VOL. FOLIO FHL FILM #
AUSTYN Joane Adisham 1483 CC 32 RW 2 553 0188833
AUSTYN Robert Adisham 1528 CC 32 RW 15 47 0188840
AUSTYN Robert Adisham 1554 CC 32 RW 19 38 0188842
AUSTEN Thomas Adisham 1578-1580 CC 32 RW 34 66 0188848
AUSTEN Edmund Adisham 1582-1582 CC 32 RW 34 247 0188848
AUSTEN, AWSTEN Valentine Adisham 1616-1616 CC 32 RW 43 211 0188856
AUSTEN Thomas Adisham 1617-1617 CC 32 RW 44 130 0188857
AWSTEN Richard Wickhambreaux 1618-1618 AD 17 RW 55 405 0188953
AUSTEN Richard Adisham 1618-1619 CC 32 RW 44 310 0188857
AUSTEN Elizabeth Adisham 1629-1629 CC 32 RW 49 44 0188861
Any work on Archdeaconry or Consistory Court Wills will have to wait until September when the FHC reopens and I can access them on their computer system. They have many more now online than they did even one month ago.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Hello, again, Matt
On the SHEAFE line, I would caution that many have tried to hook our Sarah SHEAFE up with the family of Harman SHEAFE and Sarah GYLLEBRAND at Cranbrook. There is absolutely no proof tying our lady to that family. There is another possibility in the Thomas SHEAFEs in Rolvenden and High Halden. But, again, I have found absolutely no proof in tying that family up with our family.
The thing that is worrying to me is the appearance of a burial of a Thomas SHEAFE in Wye on 28 Oct 1633 who was described as a prisoner. I have been trying to run that lead to ground but unfortunately, I am having no success whatsoever. I have many questions but have found no answers. The fact that our Sarah is buried in Wye in 1640 as a widow leads me to hypothesize that she and Thomas were husband and wife or at least mother and son.
I have also been trying to track down the baptism of the elusive Edmund Sheafe, Sarah's son, which occurred circa 1616 or earlier. I believe finding that baptism will put us on solid ground for continuing this line back through time.
I have recently come upon a marriage of an Edmund Sheafe pre-1600 in the vicinity of Chilham. I'll have to dig that reference up again, I seem to have misplaced it at the moment. It was the only Sheafe event in that parish right up to the 1640s. As soon as I lay my hands on it, I'll send it on to you for your reference.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Hi Matt,
My apologies for being out-of-contact with you for the past little while. The tech issues became too big to surmount and rushing to get client work under control before our FHC shut-down for August and a steep learning curve getting a new computer up and running have left me a little exhausted. However, over the next week I will re-acquaint myself with the information we left off at and send an email to you.
In the meantime, the AUSTIN line for our mutual Matthew AUSTIN runs like this:
Matthew's father was:
Richard AUSTIN born circa 1512-1515, at Wickhambreaux, Kent
buried Dec 1592 at Adisham
His Will Consistory Court of Canterbury PRC32/37-89 written 21 May 1592, proved 13 February 1592/3
I have this Will.
Married Agnes a'DENNE
born circa 1520 at Barham
buried 23 Mar 1588 at Adisham.
Richard AUSTEN'S father was:
Robert AUSTEN
born circa 1479, likely at Wickhambreaux, Kent, England
buried 26 Nov 1544 at Adisham
His wife was named Elizabeth [surname unknown at this time].
She was buried 31 Oct 1538 at Adisham.
A possible lead on Robert's father comes in the manner of an Archdeaconry Court Will for:
AUSTEN Robert, Wickhambreaux, 1487, Court: AD 17 RW, v. 4, fol. 133, FHL #0188920
However, there are other Wills that should also be examined in order to develop the AUSTEN family at Wickhambreaux and Adisham more succinctly:
SURNAME NAME RESIDENCE YEAR WILL TYPE VOL. FOLIO FHL FILM #
AUSTYN Joane Adisham 1483 CC 32 RW 2 553 0188833
AUSTYN Robert Adisham 1528 CC 32 RW 15 47 0188840
AUSTYN Robert Adisham 1554 CC 32 RW 19 38 0188842
AUSTEN Thomas Adisham 1578-1580 CC 32 RW 34 66 0188848
AUSTEN Edmund Adisham 1582-1582 CC 32 RW 34 247 0188848
AUSTEN, AWSTEN Valentine Adisham 1616-1616 CC 32 RW 43 211 0188856
AUSTEN Thomas Adisham 1617-1617 CC 32 RW 44 130 0188857
AWSTEN Richard Wickhambreaux 1618-1618 AD 17 RW 55 405 0188953
AUSTEN Richard Adisham 1618-1619 CC 32 RW 44 310 0188857
AUSTEN Elizabeth Adisham 1629-1629 CC 32 RW 49 44 0188861
Any work on Archdeaconry or Consistory Court Wills will have to wait until September when the FHC reopens and I can access them on their computer system. They have many more now online than they did even one month ago.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Wow you've been busy! That's a lot of info on the Austen line! I don't have my Austen tree to hand but will cross reference this with what I have.
The connection with the Denne family is interesting as they feature on another branch of my family tree.
With regards to the wills you mentioned I do have transcripts of quite a few wills of the Austen family associated with Adisham. I will check to see if any of those you listed are amongst the ones I have.
I will try to get back to you on this lot sometime in the week.
Until then, best wishes
Matt
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Hello, again, Matt
On the SHEAFE line, I would caution that many have tried to hook our Sarah SHEAFE up with the family of Harman SHEAFE and Sarah GYLLEBRAND at Cranbrook. There is absolutely no proof tying our lady to that family. There is another possibility in the Thomas SHEAFEs in Rolvenden and High Halden. But, again, I have found absolutely no proof in tying that family up with our family.
The thing that is worrying to me is the appearance of a burial of a Thomas SHEAFE in Wye on 28 Oct 1633 who was described as a prisoner. I have been trying to run that lead to ground but unfortunately, I am having no success whatsoever. I have many questions but have found no answers. The fact that our Sarah is buried in Wye in 1640 as a widow leads me to hypothesize that she and Thomas were husband and wife or at least mother and son.
I have also been trying to track down the baptism of the elusive Edmund Sheafe, Sarah's son, which occurred circa 1616 or earlier. I believe finding that baptism will put us on solid ground for continuing this line back through time.
I have recently come upon a marriage of an Edmund Sheafe pre-1600 in the vicinity of Chilham. I'll have to dig that reference up again, I seem to have misplaced it at the moment. It was the only Sheafe event in that parish right up to the 1640s. As soon as I lay my hands on it, I'll send it on to you for your reference.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi again Susan
I agree that caution is needed in researching the Sheafes, however I do suspect that there is a link. Sheafe is a fairly unusual name and I've only found it in a few parishes, namely those around Cranbrook and in the case of Harmon Shefe's marriage and the marriage of Elizabeth Sheafe and Valentine Austen of Wye. Although these parishes are a fair distance apart I believe I may have found some possible evidence to suggest that the Sheafes in Cranbrook had links to Wye and the parishes around there.
Interestingly I think I have found the Will of Harmon Sheafe. The puzzle is that he appears to have died in Welford, Berkshire (there is a link there as his brother lived there). The problem is that although he mentions his lands in Cranbrook and Kent, and also his wife Sara, he makes no mention of any children. It is odd that no children at all are named, unless they had already been provided. If he had named some of his children, and particularly Elizabeth, then we would have a way to link him to Elizabeth who married Valentine Austen, but like I said sadly he names no children. Of course the will could relate to a different Harmon but the name is so unusual I'm sure it is the same man.
There are a lot of Sheafe family Wills but sadly none of them mention members of the Austen family which is annoying.
As I said the name 'Harmon' is an unusual name. The only examples of that name I've found connected with Wye, are Harmon Sheafe who married Sara Jyllybrand (Gyllybrand, Gillibrand) and Harmon Sheafe who was born in Cranbrook and [possibly] died in Welford. I can't definitely say that the Harmon who was born in Cranbrook is the same one as the Harmon who married Sara but so far it's the only possible candidate I've found (with the exception of his nephew who would be too young to be Elizabeth's father).
Like you I've tried to look into this Thomas Sheafe who was a prisoner but without much luck, perhaps I need to add that to my list of things to research when I visit Canterbury next.
What is interesting is the fact that there are a lot of repeated names in the family, Edmund being one example.
At the moment I have a feeling that we definitely need to look outside Wye for Elizabeth's ancestry. The puzzle whether her parents came from outside that parish or not.
Anyhow I will update you with my thoughts on the Sheafe line soon.
Matt
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Hi Matt,
Thank you for each of your above two replies.
I found the reference of the Edmund Sheafe marriage and just wanted to pass this quickly along to you.
From the Parish Register of Challock:
SHEOFE [sic], Edmund, Jane DOWNE, married 21 Sep 1599
But, from the First Series, 1568-1618, Canterbury Marriage Licences by Joseph Meadows Cowper,
Col. 373:
SHEAFE, Edmund, of Woodchurch, yeoman, and Jane DOWNE of Challock, widow. Aug 15, 1599.
Woodchurch is not a parish that I have paid much attention to in the past despite having a line entrenched at Bethersden and Pluckley to pre-1538.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Hi Matt,
Thank you for each of your above two replies.
I found the reference of the Edmund Sheafe marriage and just wanted to pass this quickly along to you.
From the Parish Register of Challock:
SHEOFE [sic], Edmund, Jane DOWNE, married 21 Sep 1599
But, from the First Series, 1568-1618, Canterbury Marriage Licences by Joseph Meadows Cowper,
Col. 373:
SHEAFE, Edmund, of Woodchurch, yeoman, and Jane DOWNE of Challock, widow. Aug 15, 1599.
Woodchurch is not a parish that I have paid much attention to in the past despite having a line entrenched at Bethersden and Pluckley to pre-1538.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Edmond is a very interesting character. He was married twice from memory but I will need to check my notes to give you the exact details. What I can say is that he was 1 of 15 children and the second eldest son. Edmund was a clergyman and died in 1626 leaving an extensive Will. I have a copy of his Will and can send you a copy if you want.
Edmund's brother Dr Thomas Sheffe, D.D was rector of Welford and is buried at St George's Chapel, Windsor. Like Edmund, Thomas also left a Will which mentions many family members.
Names like Edmund, Thomas, Timothy, Katherine, John, William, Joane and Sarah seem very popular in this family.
I'll send you a separate message about Harmon Sheafe as I think it will be easier to explain things that way. Alternatively if you want to pm me with your email details I can send it to you directly (along with a family tree).
All the best for now
Matt
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Hi Matt,
My apologies for being out-of-contact with you for the past little while. The tech issues became too big to surmount and rushing to get client work under control before our FHC shut-down for August and a steep learning curve getting a new computer up and running have left me a little exhausted. However, over the next week I will re-acquaint myself with the information we left off at and send an email to you.
In the meantime, the AUSTIN line for our mutual Matthew AUSTIN runs like this:
Matthew's father was:
Richard AUSTIN born circa 1512-1515, at Wickhambreaux, Kent
buried Dec 1592 at Adisham
His Will Consistory Court of Canterbury PRC32/37-89 written 21 May 1592, proved 13 February 1592/3
I have this Will.
Married Agnes a'DENNE
born circa 1520 at Barham
buried 23 Mar 1588 at Adisham.
Richard AUSTEN'S father was:
Robert AUSTEN
born circa 1479, likely at Wickhambreaux, Kent, England
buried 26 Nov 1544 at Adisham
His wife was named Elizabeth [surname unknown at this time].
She was buried 31 Oct 1538 at Adisham.
A possible lead on Robert's father comes in the manner of an Archdeaconry Court Will for:
AUSTEN Robert, Wickhambreaux, 1487, Court: AD 17 RW, v. 4, fol. 133, FHL #0188920
However, there are other Wills that should also be examined in order to develop the AUSTEN family at Wickhambreaux and Adisham more succinctly:
SURNAME NAME RESIDENCE YEAR WILL TYPE VOL. FOLIO FHL FILM #
AUSTYN Joane Adisham 1483 CC 32 RW 2 553 0188833
AUSTYN Robert Adisham 1528 CC 32 RW 15 47 0188840
AUSTYN Robert Adisham 1554 CC 32 RW 19 38 0188842
AUSTEN Thomas Adisham 1578-1580 CC 32 RW 34 66 0188848
AUSTEN Edmund Adisham 1582-1582 CC 32 RW 34 247 0188848
AUSTEN, AWSTEN Valentine Adisham 1616-1616 CC 32 RW 43 211 0188856
AUSTEN Thomas Adisham 1617-1617 CC 32 RW 44 130 0188857
AWSTEN Richard Wickhambreaux 1618-1618 AD 17 RW 55 405 0188953
AUSTEN Richard Adisham 1618-1619 CC 32 RW 44 310 0188857
AUSTEN Elizabeth Adisham 1629-1629 CC 32 RW 49 44 0188861
Any work on Archdeaconry or Consistory Court Wills will have to wait until September when the FHC reopens and I can access them on their computer system. They have many more now online than they did even one month ago.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Can you send me a copy of Richard Austen's Will if you have time? I am hoping to follow up on the other Wills if I get to visit the archives in Canterbury next week [which I am currently planning to do].
Do you know who his siblings were, or if Agnes left a Will at all?
Ok now the really interesting bit. Agnes A'Denne [or Agnes Denne] could well be connected to the Denne family I am researching in the Kingston, Barham, and Womenswold area. This family is very large and extensive [thankfully they left lots of Wills] and if I'm right then I have Denne links on two different lines of my ancestry. I will do some more digging and let you know my thoughts.
Best Wishes
Matt
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Hi Matt.
It seems we share a common ancestor. I descend from Richard Kennett baptised in Wye 3 Oct 1673, son of John Kennet & Elizabeth Austine married 3 Nov 1664. As John is shown as John jnr., his father must have been named John also. I have found a John bpt. in Wye in 1628 and 1632 with fathers name of John plus a marriage of a John Kennet (of Boughton Aluph) to Margery Scrase in 1633. I wonder whether you have been able to take the Kennett line further back.
As for the Sheaffe family: From 'The New England Historical and Genealogical Register Volume 4'
"Sheafe, Thomas, Cranbrook m Sarah Sheppard, a descendant of Richard Sheppard of Pesmarsh, Sussex. This seems to have been not far from beginning of the 17th century".
I wonder if this could be the Sarah Sheafe mother of Elizabeth who married Valentine Austin.
Regards
John
Australia
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I am not sure if this topic is extant. But I checked the Wye Parish Registers on line and there is no christening/baptism record for a Matthew Austen 1 Nov 1615. I also checked the Kent Parish Tyler Index for Wye and no record there either.
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I am not sure if this topic is extant. But I checked the Wye Parish Registers on line and there is no christening/baptism record for a Matthew Austen 1 Nov 1615. I also checked the Kent Parish Tyler Index for Wye and no record there either.
Hi Terry
Thanks for your message, this post is very much still alive. I can't remember who found the date of 1615 for Matthew Austen, but it is different to the date I have for him.
The info regarding the 1615 date was given to me by another researcher who had done a lot of work on the Austen/Austin/Awsten line
Matthew's father, Valentine Austen was married three times I believe. I am sorting through some of my notes this week so when I get a chance to look at them.
There are a lot of Austens in that area, and a lot of my Austens are related. There are Austens in Adisham and Littlebourne who are related to one line of my research and those in Wye who are related to another branch. The Adisham/Littlebourne and Wye lines are connected a few generations back.
I will go through my notes on the Austens and get back to you during the week.
Matt
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Hi Matthew,
My apologies for not having responded to your last post to me regarding Valentine Austin and his several wives.
The first 'wife' was revealed only through a baptism at Wye of a Mathew Austin, 1 November 1615 which reads, "Mathew Austen the son of Valentine Austen and Katherine the daughter of Thomas Terrall, baptised" . I have searched many parishes in an attempt to find the marriage of Mathew and Katherine but with no success. Likewise, I have also searched for a burial for Katherine, also without success. Unfortunately, the baptism entry is somewhat ambiguous as it could be construed that Mathew was an illegitimate child of Valentine and Katherine. However, as Mathew was baptised with the Austen surname and having regard to the strict protocol concerning the identification of illegitimate children, it would appear, on the face of it that Valentine and Katherine were married. Of course, only finding the missing events will settle the possibility of whether or not Valentine and Katherine were actually married to each other or not.
The second wife then becomes Jane Terrall who is described on the marriage licence as being a "virgin":
Valentine Austen, of Brook, yeom[an], ba[chelor], about 30, and Jane Terrell, s.p. [of the same], v. [virgin], about 22, d[aughter] of Mary Terrell, alias Dence s.p. [of the same place], w. [widow], who consents. At the same. Sept. 24, 1625.
Source for the above entry: Marriage Licences of the Archdeaconry of Canterbury, vol. 2, 1619-1660, col. 37.
The marriage entry at Brook on 27 September 1625 reads in part, "she "eius matertera ----?" [his mother's sister i.e. his maternal aunt, or a kind of "goddess" ----?]
Source of the above entry is the Archdeacon's Transcripts of Brooke.
I think in this context the relationship is stated and not some fanciful description of his fondness for Jane. I have to question, however, if the vicar used the correct Latin term and perhaps meant that Jane was the sister of Katherine Terrall. Sadly, we may never know the truth of this matter unless the former marriage to Katherine Terrall can be found.
Hence the third marriage consists of the marriage to Elizabeth Sheafe.
I also have the marriages and licences of Sarah Sheafe and Mary Sheafe.
I also have the three Wills - Mathew, Thomasine and Valentine Austin.
Despite having searched numerous parishes around Wye and Adisham, I have not yet found the marriage of Mathew Austen to Thomasine. Have you found that marriage? I wonder as you have Thomasine recorded with the surname of Austen.
In total, Mathew and Thomasine Austen had 6 sons:
1, Richard baptised 5 May 1588 at Adisham. This Richard is referred to as an uncle in the Will of Thomas Austen of Harbledown proved 1 Nov 1661, the son of Mathew and Thomasine Austen of Wye. Richard is described as being of Wye at the time of death of Thomas in 1661.
2. Mathew baptised 19 Jul 1590 at Adisham.
3. Henry baptised 8 Oct 1592 at Adisham. He married Agnes Marsh 4 May 1626 at St. Peter, Canterbury.
4. Valentine baptised 31 Aug 1595 at Chilham - my 10th great-grandfather.
5. William baptised 2 Apr 1598 at Chilham. I have no further information for this fellow.
6. Thomas baptised 28 Mar 1602 at Chilham; died 15 Aug 1661 at Harbledown. The Will of this fellow refers to father Matthew Austen of Wye and a legacy to Elizabeth daughter of Henry Austen, deceased. Testator's uncle Richard Austen of Wye and testator's uncle Thomas Austen of Chillenden. Robert Beake of Hackington one of the overseers.
Now, to touch on Elizabeth Austin, daughter of Valentine Austin and Eliabeth nee Sheafe: I have this Elizabeth having married Stephen Wood, she of Wye, he of Hastingleigh on 29 Oct 1661 at Wye.
There are also the following two Elizabeth Austin's, both granddaughters of Mathew and Thomasine Austin, for which I have no burials or marriages:
1. Elizabeth Austin baptised 13 Aug. 1636 at Chilham, the daughter of Henry Austin and Ann Marsh; and,
2. Elizabeth Austin baptised 1 Mar 1631 at Brooke, the daughter of Richard Austin and Elizabeth nee Raynes.
I look forward to receiving your response, particularly so in regard to your Elizabeth Austin's marriage to John Kennett.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Hope you are well. Where did you get the information regarding the 1615 christening of Matthew Austin from? I haven't been able to find it myself and another researcher has posted on here saying there is no christening for a Matthew Austen in Wye on the 1 Nov 1615.
Do you have a copy of the parish register entry you can send me or was this christening in a different parish?
There is a Matthew Austen christened in Chilham in 1627 and then before that the only one I have found is in Adisham in about 1562.
The Austen tree is quite complex and extensive so it may take us a few days (or weeks) to go through it and sort this out.
Matt
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Hi Matt
Thanks for your quick reply. Just to say that my interest is in the Luckhurst lineage and having halted at William Lucas (Luckhurst bp May 1636 Charing Kent) I am now proceeding down each of the half bloodlines; the Austens emerge at John Luckhurst's (bp Nov 1716) wife Sarah Austen (bp Nov 1722 Little Chart). So progressing back from Sarah I have reached Matthew Austen (1562-1640) and have nearly all the provenance which you and Susan have been discussing...very interesting and impressive. I got stuck with Elizabeth Austen (nee Sheaffe) at Valentine's July 1651 will and probate and have not established her final outcome, ie remarriage or death as a widow. But essentially for what I am doing Elizabeth's fate does not affect my patrilineal Austen line, although its nice to close out someone. My project also covers the background of the places that all ancestors relate to by their three personal events. In doing so it has become almost a book with quite a lot of QI accounts. Best Regards Terry
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Hi Matt
Thanks for your quick reply. Just to say that my interest is in the Luckhurst lineage and having halted at William Lucas (Luckhurst bp May 1636 Charing Kent) I am now proceeding down each of the half bloodlines; the Austens emerge at John Luckhurst's (bp Nov 1716) wife Sarah Austen (bp Nov 1722 Little Chart). So progressing back from Sarah I have reached Matthew Austen (1562-1640) and have nearly all the provenance which you and Susan have been discussing...very interesting and impressive. I got stuck with Elizabeth Austen (nee Sheaffe) at Valentine's July 1651 will and probate and have not established her final outcome, ie remarriage or death as a widow. But essentially for what I am doing Elizabeth's fate does not affect my patrilineal Austen line, although its nice to close out someone. My project also covers the background of the places that all ancestors relate to by their three personal events. In doing so it has become almost a book with quite a lot of QI accounts. Best Regards Terry
Hi Terry
As you've probably found yourself, there are a lot of Austens around in that area and a lot with the same name (there are several Richards, Roberts, Valentines and Matthews).
I descend from Elizabeth Austen, daughter of Valentine Austen and Elizabeth [nee Sheafe]. As far as I know, the Matthew who was christened in 1615 was Valentine's son by his first wife. Elizabeth was his third wife.
I have nearly all the Wills for the Austen family in Wye and the surrounding areas and these are very useful in putting the tree together. Have you seen the Will of Matthew Austen [1562-1640]? If not I can send you a copy.
I've printed out a basic tree for the family so I can go through it tonight and tomorrow and get back to you with more info. I think I have a copy of Valentine Austen's Will and a transcript which I can send you if you've not got it.
How far have you managed to get back with the Austens yourself? I've been very lucky as the Austens were also related to my Nethersole and Denne ancestors in the Littlebourne and Adisham areas of Kent. Through the connections with these families, and through Wills and other sources (mainly records in the Court of Chancery, Quarter Sessions and other records).
As you says yourself there is a lot of interesting material regarding the Austens and along with the Denne and Nethersole families in Kent, and the Gravett family in Surrey/Sussex, they are propably one of the most interesting set of ancestors I've found.
Anyhow I will stop there and get back to you in the next few days if I can.
Matt
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Hi Matt
Many thanks for the update. I have from Tyler Index Kent Wills those for Matthew (1562-1640) his wife Thomasin (abt 1563-1642) and Valentine (1595-1651).
I cannot find any source for the early marriage of Valentine before Jane Terrall and the first child I have for them is Matthew bp 24 March 1627 followed by another Matthew (elder died?) bp Oct 1629. I also came across a burial of a Thomasin 9 Oct 1630 but could not find a baptism. However as you said there are a plethora of Austens living in the same and adjacent parishes of similar generation, given names and ages - difficult to discern. As the saying goes, if you spend a lot of time researching your ancestors you end up finding out that you are your own cousin!!
My project is to research the four major bloodlines from my grandparents which are Luckhurst, Marchant, Crittenden and Morris ostensibly patrilineal until I hit the authentication buffers. Then my second phase is to track back and take the half bloodline branches taking the wife's father and trace back patrilineal until I hit the authentication buffers. I have limited myself to only two such transfers to ensure the relationship is not too remote. But surprisingly I have made it back to the 12th generation with full provenance on the Luckhurst bloodline with one transfer, but have yet four more earlier branches to take, although one the Bournes will reappear three generations earlier. In the process I research the parishes for historical and QI facts along with hopefully supporting historic images and maps. The other task was to carry out a mini demographic analysis of all the ancestors on the direct line back to 1837 when civil registration started and a few years later the National Census to see the effect of the Industrial Revolution. This involved obtaining nearly 300 personal events from GRO £££££! So you can see that my project is not so much a family tree as my branching forms more like a poplar tree. After one year my draft write up (don't want to call it a book) has exceeded 320 pages.
My immediate goal is to trace back our Austens as far as I can with sound provenance. So linking a series of fathers and sons is the goal and at this time I am addressing Matthew and Thomasin. Does she have a maiden name? I make a record of progenies but only baptism and burial unless a QI fact surfaces.
Best Regards
Terry
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Hi Matt
Sorry to bother you again, but just before I move onto Robert Austen (b ca1479) I have noted a possible conflict of burial sites for Matthew Austen. In his will he asked to be buried at Chilham. But in his widow's will 2 yrs later she asked to buried near him at Wye, where she was later interred. The Wye Parish burial registers have a record of Thomasine but NOT Matthew. Not a major problem for my purposes but I would like to be accurate. Do you have a source citation for Matthew's burial place? Without any other record one can argue for both Wye and Chilham, ie did his Exec carry out his wish or was Thomasine correct? No MIs at either of the two sites.
I noted that Matthew and Thomasine had amassed quite a family. I have recorded eight probably nine with good source citation, re:Tyler Index. But their early records were inconsistent with some baptisms not providing the given name of the father - with many Austens in and around adjacent parishes it makes it difficult to pigeon hole them. I also note that Tyler Index has a hiatus 1640-1660 (Civil War and Interregnum period) which doesn't help. Do you have a full verified list of their children?
I think I will hit this Austen line buffers with Robert (Richard's father) as records are becoming increasingly difficult to come by prior to 1538, unless MIs have survived and wills were written. Do you have a link to any will Robert may have produced?
Best regards
Terry
PS I am not my own cousin yet!
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Hi Matt
Sorry to bother you again, but just before I move onto Robert Austen (b ca1479) I have noted a possible conflict of burial sites for Matthew Austen. In his will he asked to be buried at Chilham. But in his widow's will 2 yrs later she asked to buried near him at Wye, where she was later interred. The Wye Parish burial registers have a record of Thomasine but NOT Matthew. Not a major problem for my purposes but I would like to be accurate. Do you have a source citation for Matthew's burial place? Without any other record one can argue for both Wye and Chilham, ie did his Exec carry out his wish or was Thomasine correct? No MIs at either of the two sites.
I noted that Matthew and Thomasine had amassed quite a family. I have recorded eight probably nine with good source citation, re:Tyler Index. But their early records were inconsistent with some baptisms not providing the given name of the father - with many Austens in and around adjacent parishes it makes it difficult to pigeon hole them. I also note that Tyler Index has a hiatus 1640-1660 (Civil War and Interregnum period) which doesn't help. Do you have a full verified list of their children?
I think I will hit this Austen line buffers with Robert (Richard's father) as records are becoming increasingly difficult to come by prior to 1538, unless MIs have survived and wills were written. Do you have a link to any will Robert may have produced?
Best regards
Terry
PS I am not my own cousin yet!
Hi Terry
I'll check my notes and get back to you. I think I have a record of Matthew's burial but I need to double check.
The Austens were involved in a lot of legal disputes in Chancery and I have looked at quite a few of these. Although they provide useful info about the family, they can also be very long documents and sometime tricky to read lol! The answer to a lot of the puzzles about the Austens are probably in these records.
Anyhow leave it with me and I will get back to you asap.
Matt
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Hello all,
I have been following this thread on and off for a long time and I have a suggestion to throw into the mix with regard to the Sheafe connection.
I have a marriage for Thomas Sheafe of Cranbrook and Sarah Sheppard. The marriage took place in West Peckham 17 Sep 1610. This marriage puts two people with the right names into the vicinity of Hadlow for the birth of an Elizabeth Sheafe in 1611, bap 21 July. This could well be the Elizabeth Sheafe that married Valentine Austen in 1634. The Wye death dates for Thomas the prisoner and Sarah the widow also fit this scenario.
Sarah Sheppard was the daughter of Alexander Sheppard and his first wife Elizabeth Covert as per County Genealogies for Sussex. Alexander's second wife was Ursula Knatchbull, a family that had long had links with the Sheafes in the Cranbrook area, bringing the story full circle.
I would certainly love some verification of my theory in the form of a handy will reference or some such gem, but it might be worth at least investigating this idea further.
Elizabeth
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Hello all,
I have been following this thread on and off for a long time and I have a suggestion to throw into the mix with regard to the Sheafe connection.
I have a marriage for Thomas Sheafe of Cranbrook and Sarah Sheppard. The marriage took place in West Peckham 17 Sep 1610. This marriage puts two people with the right names into the vicinity of Hadlow for the birth of an Elizabeth Sheafe in 1611, bap 21 July. This could well be the Elizabeth Sheafe that married Valentine Austen in 1634. The Wye death dates for Thomas the prisoner and Sarah the widow also fit this scenario.
Sarah Sheppard was the daughter of Alexander Sheppard and his first wife Elizabeth Covert as per County Genealogies for Sussex. Alexander's second wife was Ursula Knatchbull, a family that had long had links with the Sheafes in the Cranbrook area, bringing the story full circle.
I would certainly love some verification of my theory in the form of a handy will reference or some such gem, but it might be worth at least investigating this idea further.
Elizabeth
Hi Elizabeth
I haven't looked either the Sheafe or Austen lines in any depth lately as I have been sorting out a few other lines of research.
I hadn't come across the 1611 christening of Elizabeth in Hadlow myself so it is definitely worth investigating.
I'll check my notes and get back to you as soon as I can. In the meantime what else can you tell me about this Thomas and Sarah? Did they have any other children?
Matt
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At this stage I can only find the one Hadlow baptism for a Sheaf/Sheafe/Sheaffe but I don't have access to images of the original registers. Someone a lot closer to Kent (I'm in Tasmania!) might have to investigate that bit, unless they eventually end up on line somewhere. I have several site subscriptions but Hadlow is not included in any of those.....yet! We antipodeans can always live in hope. ;D
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Hi All
I am a member of the Kent Family History Society (KFHS). While working a case on the Kent Bartons, namely Thomas (father) John (son) of Charing Kent, I could not back project from John's bap. With the absence of Hadlow PRs I searched the principal (highest populated and population density communities) to try and discover the early life profile of Thomas. The one Parish that I could not access online or in the KFHS PR transcriptions prior to 1836 was Hadlow. I enquired (May 18) with Kent History & Library Centre who advised that a Hadlow PR digitisation (transcription) was in progress and would be available on public domain mid 2019. I exhausted all the available East Peckham and Hadlow wills that were available. These I doubt would not be sufficient to cover the full profiles of your subject ancestors. I have kept my Barton case open pending Hadlow PRs and possible pre dated PR records till mid 2019
Another of our lineages is the Sheaffes, but the Thomas Sheaffe on my line is the generation before yours he's the son (bap 1587) Richard Sheaffe - where our line takes his brother Edmund. From KFHS PR there are 3 potential Thos Sheaffes at Cranbrook for the marriage to Sarah 1. bap 1587 s/o Richard, 2. bap 1588 no father recorded, 3. bap 1592 s/o Alex.
Looking back on my Austen lineage I have the same life profile for Elizabeth as you up to the point that Valentine died in 1651. Thereafter I have no trace, but did not search too hard as she and this Valentine's second marriage was not on my direct lineage.
I can also concur re the Sheaffe and Knatchbull relationship as our Richard Sheaffe's Jun 1557 will states two daughters Joan and Anne marrying into the Knatchbull family.
Terry
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Hi again
I haven't had time to look at my Sheaffe notes today but have been looking through my Austen notes and working on a link to another branch of my family. I will go through my Sheaffe notes tomorrow and try and post an update tomorrow or on Sunday.
I think the confusion occurs sometimes when several people had the same name, and when they were alive or died at the same time. Valentine is a name which pops up quite frequently and sometimes I have to check my tree to see which Valentine Austen I'm looking at!
Matt
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@Terry
My actual line is the Thomas Sheaf (b 1592) son of Alexander (b 1566) son of Thomas Sheaffe and Mary Harmon. The story is that my Thomas moved from Cranbrook to Cleeve Prior, but I have never seen any hard evidence for that and would dearly love to prove this one way or the other. However, because the Sheaf name is relatively uncommon I keep a bit of a track of all the ones I come across in case I can tie them in! I have the Thomas Sheaffe who married Sarah as the 1588 one, and the 1587 one marrying Mary Gibbon of West Cliffe. But who knows!!
Thanks for your info on the Hadlow registers. That will be something to look forward to.
Cheers,
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
Well if you relate back to Alexander Sheaffe bp 15 Dec 1566 Cranbrook m. Phebe Hyder Sep 1591 Cranbrook, as you say his parents Thomas (bp 1532) and Mary (nee Harmon) are well documented and 15 children too. Then continue back projecting via Richard Sheaffe (bap 1505, Cranbrook) then Thomas (bap 1470, Norwich Norfolk clothier, draper) till the line ends as far as I can see with his father Thomas Shefe (Sheff) b abt 1440 Norwich who was a "marble" - Pembroke Marble - his work is spread around the church corbels in Norwich probably even where he was interred at St George Tombland Norwich - right next to the cathedral. His craftsman mark is on his ledger stone.
Terry
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Elizabeth
Thomas Shefe (b abt 1440) was a "marbler" - I just note when I repeated it here it tends to want to lose the last "r".
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Elizabeth
I think my keyboard is having a Great Vowel Shift or I am.
The craft of Thomas Shefe was "marbeler" - difficult to find it on searches almost akin to a stone mason....but they had their guilds, also their craftsman marks were local, his being Norwich. Also the marble came from Dorset Purbeck and not Wales.
Terry
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Hi Matt
Sorry to bother you again, but just before I move onto Robert Austen (b ca1479) I have noted a possible conflict of burial sites for Matthew Austen. In his will he asked to be buried at Chilham. But in his widow's will 2 yrs later she asked to buried near him at Wye, where she was later interred. The Wye Parish burial registers have a record of Thomasine but NOT Matthew. Not a major problem for my purposes but I would like to be accurate. Do you have a source citation for Matthew's burial place? Without any other record one can argue for both Wye and Chilham, ie did his Exec carry out his wish or was Thomasine correct? No MIs at either of the two sites.
I noted that Matthew and Thomasine had amassed quite a family. I have recorded eight probably nine with good source citation, re:Tyler Index. But their early records were inconsistent with some baptisms not providing the given name of the father - with many Austens in and around adjacent parishes it makes it difficult to pigeon hole them. I also note that Tyler Index has a hiatus 1640-1660 (Civil War and Interregnum period) which doesn't help. Do you have a full verified list of their children?
I think I will hit this Austen line buffers with Robert (Richard's father) as records are becoming increasingly difficult to come by prior to 1538, unless MIs have survived and wills were written. Do you have a link to any will Robert may have produced?
Best regards
Terry
PS I am not my own cousin yet!
Hi Terry
I have been looking at my notes on the Austens and also the Sheaffe family and have come up with a few ideas.
I have a copy of Matthew Austen's 1640 Will and agree with you that it does say that he wished to be 'buried in the churchyard of Chilham'. However it may be that this changed and that he later wished to be buried in Wye. Unfortunately we don't have the registered copy to compare this against in order to see if any changes were made.
I do have a record of Matthew's burial in Wye though which definitely confirms he was buried there. I will let you know the details tomorrow.
I also have a copy of Matthew's Inventory which was filled with the Will. This also describes him as being "of Wye" but the interesting thing here is that it was appraised by E_______ Fagg [or Fogg] and Anthony Pim - neither of whom seem to be named in the Will. There could be a link with Chilham here as Anthony Pim of Chilham is my ancestor. There's no evidence here that these two Anthony's are the same person or that the Will of Matthew Austen here is wrong and my only conclusion so far is that Matthew had lands or connections in both parishes. Since the Austens were quite spread out and had land in both parishes I think it quite likely that when he wrote the Will Matthew wanted to be buried in the parish of his birth (Chilham) but perhaps when he died this couldn't be done (maybe he died suddenly and they couldn't get him to Chilham) or perhaps he changed his mind (details we'd only know if we could see the registered copy of the Will).
I know that there are a number of cases in Chancery involving Matthew Austen and I think there is one involving his Will. So another possibility may be that some legal dispute arose after his death. I do have notes on some of these but they are at the bottom of a box so need digging out. I will get back to you on that as soon as I can.
I will post an update on the Sheaffes tomorrow.
Matt
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Hello All,
I am also looking to trace my Austen line (here from Sydney Australia) back into the Kent area.
Agree there is alot of confusion with the many repeated names!
I have traced back our line from the 1st ancestors to immigrate from England to Australia as Henry Austen B 1813 and Eliza Spratford up 4 generations back to Edward Austen B 1686 and Elizabeth Vane?
Robert Austen abt B1660 mother Mary Oliver? were supposedly Edwards parents .
Where I find some trouble is to then connect back to the right line of Austens in the area. We thought it could be either descendants of John Austin the 1st who married Joan Berry, or the Baronet Robert Austen B1589 who married Anne Muns. I'm struggling to get an exact hit on the names and dates here though. So also it could be neither! For me as a beginner at researching and being very far away from the region, I'm finding it challenging to feel confidence on which Austens are ours to claim!!
If anyone on this post has any insights to share I would so grateful!
Anita
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Hi Anita
Our Kent Luckhurst line merged with our Wye Austens when Sarah bap 18 Nov 1722 Little Chart Kt married John Luckhurst (bap 18 Nov 1716 Hothfield Kt) on 6 Jan 1742 Pluckley Kt. From Sarah I then tracked our Austens from her father John Austen (bap 30 May 1680 Charing Kt) down the paternal line via Valentine Austen (bap 22 Jan 1631 Wye Kt, his father Valentine Austen (bap 31 Aug 1595 Chilham Kt) then his father Matthew Austen (bap 6 Sep 1652 Adisham Kt) to his father Richard Austen (b. 1512 Wickhambreux Kt) onto our Robert Austyen (b. 1479 Adisham Kt) and finally to Robert Austyn (b. ca 1445). So you can see that although some of our Austens lived in Wye they were earlier than your Robert ~1660 and ours only lived in that Parish for 2-3 generations. Our Austens had proven wills which allowed me to track back before the inception of Parish Registers (PR) 1538.
May I suggest you join Kent Family History Society (KFHS) who have a much broader knowledge of the Austens and could post any queries you have among other members - with a number of members down under.
The Austens were a well known Kent family reaching respectable social standing. Our line had 50 children in 6 generations which shows even after the 50% fatality rate to adulthood creates quite a number of permutations, then the conundrum is identical given names similar generation and ages and same or adjacent parishes, making individual distinction difficult unless wills have been made.
Good luck
Terry
PS I forgot about the poor transcriptions, that's why I use KFHS transcribed PRs, although they do not have all parishes yet. If your line ventures near Hothfield Kt there is a good record or paper called Hothfield Memories that took me on another of our Luckhurst half bloodline a further 3 generations back.
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Thanks so much Terry - appreciate the tips.
On another line of enquiry I believe its now more likely we fit into the Baroncy line.
And I just joined the KFHS :)
All the best
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Hello, again, Matt
On the SHEAFE line, I would caution that many have tried to hook our Sarah SHEAFE up with the family of Harman SHEAFE and Sarah GYLLEBRAND at Cranbrook. There is absolutely no proof tying our lady to that family. There is another possibility in the Thomas SHEAFEs in Rolvenden and High Halden. But, again, I have found absolutely no proof in tying that family up with our family.
The thing that is worrying to me is the appearance of a burial of a Thomas SHEAFE in Wye on 28 Oct 1633 who was described as a prisoner. I have been trying to run that lead to ground but unfortunately, I am having no success whatsoever. I have many questions but have found no answers. The fact that our Sarah is buried in Wye in 1640 as a widow leads me to hypothesize that she and Thomas were husband and wife or at least mother and son.
I have also been trying to track down the baptism of the elusive Edmund Sheafe, Sarah's son, which occurred circa 1616 or earlier. I believe finding that baptism will put us on solid ground for continuing this line back through time.
I have recently come upon a marriage of an Edmund Sheafe pre-1600 in the vicinity of Chilham. I'll have to dig that reference up again, I seem to have misplaced it at the moment. It was the only Sheafe event in that parish right up to the 1640s. As soon as I lay my hands on it, I'll send it on to you for your reference.
Sincerely,
Susan
Hi Susan
Hope you are well. It has been a few years since I looked at the Sheaffe family and the connection to the Austens and I was just wondering if you have had any more luck in identifying the ancestry of "Elizabeth Sheaffe of Wye" who was born about 1611 and married Valentine Austen in 1634?
Matt
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Hi everyone : )
I think I just lost the message I spent the last half an hour typing out but here goes again! (Hopefully you don't end up seeing two messages from me!)
My ancestor was Agnes Austin who married Thomas Nott at Adisham in 1591. There is no baptism for her at Adisham but I believe that she was likely Ann Austin daughter of Valentine and his wife Margaret Solye/Solley who were married in Adisham also. I'd love to know what you think of that?
Valentine left a will which mentions his 4 daughters: Ann, Bennett, Margaret and Alice. He also mentions his son's and his son in law Thomas Nott (and Thomas's daughters Margaret and Mary). Ann was baptised in 1573 and Alice in 1578. If Agnes was Ann she would have been about 18 when she married in 1591, but if she was Alice she would have only been about 13. So I'm thinking that Agnes was Ann.....
I don't know much about the family but they certainly sound like they have left their mark on the records (wills, court cases etc)! I would love anything anyone could pass on. I'd love to learn more about them and their lives back then in this fascinating period of history.
I believe that Valentine was the son of Richard Austen and Agnes Denne? I did read recently about the involvement of Richard and his brothers Thomas and John in the eventual arrest of the poor protestant vicar John Bland who ended up being Martyred during the reign of Queen Mary.
Apparently the Austen family were staunch Catholics. I wonder if there was an Abbey nearby before the dissolution? If so they were bound to have been quite involved in it you would think...although Canterbury wasn't all that far from Adisham.
The other interesting thing I discovered online was a will left by a man named Thomas Swafford. He mentions his daughter Elizabeth and that she will receive less of an inheritance if she marries a man named Stephen Solly. This Thomas Swafford owed Alexander Deveson of Staple (Physician) over 800 pounds for medical treatment! He must have been very ill.
The unfortunate Stephen Solly was the cousin of my Agnes Austen and another connection was that Alexander Deveson's brother John Deveson married Agnes Austen and Thomas Nott's daughter Ann Nott. Ann Nott was my direct ancestor : )
Tam (Australia)
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Hi everyone : )
I think I just lost the message I spent the last half an hour typing out but here goes again! (Hopefully you don't end up seeing two messages from me!)
My ancestor was Agnes Austin who married Thomas Nott at Adisham in 1591. There is no baptism for her at Adisham but I believe that she was likely Ann Austin daughter of Valentine and his wife Margaret Solye/Solley who were married in Adisham also. I'd love to know what you think of that?
Valentine left a will which mentions his 4 daughters: Ann, Bennett, Margaret and Alice. He also mentions his son's and his son in law Thomas Nott (and Thomas's daughters Margaret and Mary). Ann was baptised in 1573 and Alice in 1578. If Agnes was Ann she would have been about 18 when she married in 1591, but if she was Alice she would have only been about 13. So I'm thinking that Agnes was Ann.....
I don't know much about the family but they certainly sound like they have left their mark on the records (wills, court cases etc)! I would love anything anyone could pass on. I'd love to learn more about them and their lives back then in this fascinating period of history.
I believe that Valentine was the son of Richard Austen and Agnes Denne? I did read recently about the involvement of Richard and his brothers Thomas and John in the eventual arrest of the poor protestant vicar John Bland who ended up being Martyred during the reign of Queen Mary.
Apparently the Austen family were staunch Catholics. I wonder if there was an Abbey nearby before the dissolution? If so they were bound to have been quite involved in it you would think...although Canterbury wasn't all that far from Adisham.
The other interesting thing I discovered online was a will left by a man named Thomas Swafford. He mentions his daughter Elizabeth and that she will receive less of an inheritance if she marries a man named Stephen Solly. This Thomas Swafford owed Alexander Deveson of Staple (Physician) over 800 pounds for medical treatment! He must have been very ill.
The unfortunate Stephen Solly was the cousin of my Agnes Austen and another connection was that Alexander Deveson's brother John Deveson married Agnes Austen and Thomas Nott's daughter Ann Nott. Ann Nott was my direct ancestor : )
Tam (Australia)
Hi Tam
Valentine Austen is my direct ancestor too. I have quite a bit of info on this family and will get back to you in more detail in the next day or so.
Matt
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Hi Susan
Hope you are well. Where did you get the information regarding the 1615 christening of Matthew Austin from? I haven't been able to find it myself and another researcher has posted on here saying there is no christening for a Matthew Austen in Wye on the 1 Nov 1615.
Do you have a copy of the parish register entry you can send me or was this christening in a different parish?
There is a Matthew Austen christened in Chilham in 1627 and then before that the only one I have found is in Adisham in about 1562.
The Austen tree is quite complex and extensive so it may take us a few days (or weeks) to go through it and sort this out.
Matt
Hi, Matt,
It has been awhile in coming as I haven't had the time to get over to our Family History Centre - my work hours vs. their open hours - but, today I did get there and have the image of the 1615 baptism of Matthew Austen. I have highlighted in dark violet. This came from the original Parish Register for Wye, FHL film #1836327, about image 18 in from the title board. It is actually contained on the page following the page that begins baptisms in 1614.
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Hi Susan
Hope you are well. Where did you get the information regarding the 1615 christening of Matthew Austin from? I haven't been able to find it myself and another researcher has posted on here saying there is no christening for a Matthew Austen in Wye on the 1 Nov 1615.
Do you have a copy of the parish register entry you can send me or was this christening in a different parish?
There is a Matthew Austen christened in Chilham in 1627 and then before that the only one I have found is in Adisham in about 1562.
The Austen tree is quite complex and extensive so it may take us a few days (or weeks) to go through it and sort this out.
Matt
Hi, Matt,
It has been awhile in coming as I haven't had the time to get over to our Family History Centre - my work hours vs. their open hours - but, today I did get there and have the image of the 1615 baptism of Matthew Austen. I have highlighted in dark violet. This came from the original Parish Register for Wye, FHL film #1836327, about image 18 in from the title board. It is actually contained on the page following the page that begins baptisms in 1614.
Hi Susan
Yes it has been a while but that's no problem, I think we have both been busy with lots of other bits. I have managed to get to a few local archives and the National Archives in London where I've used to the FHC resources to get copies of Wills so that has taken up a lot of my time when I've not been working. Like you I have found that a lot of the days when I am not working are days when the archives are closed lol!
Thanks for sending that image. I forgot why we were looking into this Matthew however.
This is what I know about him already.
He was the son of Valentine Austen and his first wife Katherine Terrell.
Matthew was christened 1 November 1615 in Wye.
He must have died before 1626/27 however as in that year Valentine Austen and his second wife [Jane Terrell] had another son named Matthew
Matthew Austen christened 24 March 1626/27 Wye
This Matthew appears to have died young as Valentine and Jane had a second son named Matthew who was christened in Wye on 1 November 1629.
Jane died in 1633 and then Valentine married Elizabeth Sheaffe [my ancestor] in 1634. Their daughter Elizabeth married John Kennett in 1664.
As I have said before the Austen family is quiet complex lol! My biggest problem with this part of the family is trying to trace the family of Elizabeth Sheaffe. There are Sheaffes in the Cranbrook area but that seems far to far away from the area. That said, I haven't found any other Sheaffes in Kent at all.
It's a bit of a puzzle. Still that's the fun of genealogy :-)
Matt
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Thanks for sending that image. I forgot why we were looking into this Matthew however.
Hi, Matt,
I think that when you originally posted in 2018 that neither you nor another researcher you were in contact with could find the entry. Not being able to find the entry - and it is difficult to locate in the register - may have called into question the original information I had provided that Valentine Austin had been married, or appears to have been married, 3 times, not twice, with two of the wives possibly being related through their Terrell [sic] families.
And as I like to tidy up open questions, I kept this on my 'to-do' list until I could get it done. So, now anyone who is looking at the same families can have a record of this Matthew's baptism in 1615.
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Thanks for sending that image. I forgot why we were looking into this Matthew however.
Hi, Matt,
I think that when you originally posted in 2018 that neither you nor another researcher you were in contact with could find the entry. Not being able to find the entry - and it is difficult to locate in the register - may have called into question the original information I had provided that Valentine Austin had been married, or appears to have been married, 3 times, not twice, with two of the wives possibly being related through their Terrell [sic] families.
And as I like to tidy up open questions, I kept this on my 'to-do' list until I could get it done. So, now anyone who is looking at the same families can have a record of this Matthew's baptism in 1615.
Hi Susan
I've always kept to the assumption that Valentine Austen was married 3 times rather than 2 as it seems to fit with the dates of his children's christening better. I think this entry from the parish register seems to confirm that.
Of course the connection with the Austens gets more interesting now as I have found another connection to them through a different branch of my Kent ancestors.
As I said in my last post my biggest puzzle with the family is working out the ancestry of Elizabeth Sheaffe. It's an unusual name so you would think they'd be easy to trace, but no. There are plenty of Austens in the area [they're a big family as you've probably noticed] but Elizabeth just seems to appear out of nowhere.
If there was a way to link the Sheaffe family in Cranbrook to Elizabeth then I would feel better but so far I've still not seen any evidence to link them.
The search goes on.....
Matt
Matt
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Have you seen this fairly comprehensive history of the Sheafe family?
https://archive.org/details/sheafefamilyofol00watk/page/12
There may be an Elizabeth that hasn't been accounted for.
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Have you seen this fairly comprehensive history of the Sheafe family?
https://archive.org/details/sheafefamilyofol00watk/page/12
There may be an Elizabeth that hasn't been accounted for.
Hi there
I do have a copy of this info somewhere in my notes I think. I haven't look at the Sheaffes for a while so I'll have to take a look at my notes. The Elizabeth christened in the Hadlow area (see earlier post) might be a better fit with the family in Wye, but I think we need to keep an open mind as these might be linked too.
Matt
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There are a couple of references to the Sheafe family in the Cranbrook Society Journal
Sheafe, Thomas, and family: II,33; XXIX, 8-10
http://www.cranbrookmuseum.org/journal-index.html
I don't know if it would have some further information ???
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Hi.
Looking for any info re the following.
Cheers,
Gary
Australia.
#Jno. Austen
England Marriages, 1538–1973 birth:
Of This Parish
marriage:
19 January 1764
Ashford Parish, Kent, England spouse:
#Eliz. Castle
(http://)