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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: heathgirl on Saturday 17 November 12 21:52 GMT (UK)
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Sarah Wilkinson listed herself as a widow in 1851. She may have been born in Risley, Hertfordshire or near Heydon, Essex and she baptized dtr Ann at Reed, Hertfordshire (no father given). She is living in Heydon, Royston, Essex? in 1841 with Ann, daughter aged seven. Sarah was born between 1803 to 1805. The other census I have is for 1851 St. Mary parish, Islington and she is a "patient" still with daughter Ann, sixteen years old whose own birthplace was given as Reed, Essex. I do not understand the reference to "patients" as the image and transcript don't explain if this is a hospital. The reference is H0107, piece 1499, folio 42, page 38. All women there, and not a huge number. Appreciate any clues someone may find.
Second question relates to her dtr Ann Wilkinson born 1834 who gave her father's name as Joseph Wilkinson, labourer, in 1861 when she married Reuben Brown. I wonder if Sarah was actually unmarried. I found a Joseph who married a Sarah in Royston, 1825. Wondering if another Joseph Wilkinson can be found in Hertfordshire or Heydon.
lastly, did Sarah Wilkinson appear on the census at Ongar, Essex in 1871. This would be a lookup request. Thank you for any assistance with it. Ann went on to live in Walthamstow Essex after marriage to Reuben Brown so I do have her history forward. J
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Sorry, correction, I do see men now in the 'patients' referred to in previous post. Wide range of ages. A workhouse perhaps?
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Hi heathgirl :)
According to FindMyPast, it's the Fever Hospital in Liverpool Road.
Regards,
Carol
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Thank you! I wonder what type of fever it was. Perhaps it was luck they survived. Shall have to look up the hospital now. J
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I should say if they both survived - Ann did, but not Sarah, perhaps. If Sarah died, I expect the index would be in Islington.
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This link shows you some of the hospital's history: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s8m/
Select 'Royal Free Hospital Liverpool Road Branch' from the list.
Near the bottom of the page, you'll see a section titled 'Royal Free Hospital Archives Centre'. Click on the information (i) button to get their contact details.
Good luck :)
Carol
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Thank you again! you must have been reading my mind. I was having a bit of trouble locating the right information and checked back, and your second posting was there. In a different site I found an email address for the Archives at Royal Free hopefully it will work. It would be worth a look, but we are in a different country. J
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Hi again,
Glad to be of help ;D
I see you're in Canada, which is why I didn't suggest you visit them in person! The email address will work regardless of where you are, so fingers crossed that the archives will have some useful information. There will probably be a small admin charge if they email or post any records.
Good luck :)
Carol
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Ta! J
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Hi,
I think Sarah might have survived and gone back to Heydon. I found these census entries and a death that looks like her, I can't find any other Sarah WILK??SON that looks like this one in 1851,
1861 RG9/812 f.115 p.5 Heydon, Town: Billinge, Essex Registration district: Royston
Lane
Farm House
Sarah WILKERSON Head Unm 56 Lace Maker Bedfordshire Ro???ley
1871 RG10/1359 f.99 p.5 Heydon, Essex Registration district: Royston
Sarah WILKERSON Head Unm 66 Formerly Lace Maker Riseley Beds
Death
Sarah WILKERSON Jun Q 1873 Royston 3a 179
Age : 68
Regards,
Daisy
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Thank you, Daisy. I might add I can't be sure the 1851 census is the right one. Nevertheless, if she was only in The Fever Hospital because of illness, she could have gone from Heydon and returned to Heydon. It is interesting she then admits to being unmarried, whereas the 1851 in the hospital states looked like Widow to me. So now I have a death to investigate....J
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Daisy, did she have anyone with her on those last two censuses?
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No she was living on her own in both 1861 and 1871.
Looking at the familysearch site,
https://familysearch.org/
There are a number of children christened of Joseph and Mary WILKINSON in Riseley, Bedfordshire,
Amos
31 Jul 1803
Beua
13 Apr 1806
Ann
25 Oct 1807
Elizabeth
07 Apr 1811
William
08 Jul 1815
Beua seems an unusual name and I wonder if it's a mistrancription and could possibly be Sarah? It sounds odd but I've seen worst mistranscriptions before ::) I can't find any trace of this girl after the baptism. I can't see the original image so hopefully some kind RootsChat member will be able to look at it for you or you could contact Bedfordshire Archives and see if they will do a quick look up for you,
http://www.bedfordshire.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/ArchivesAndRecordOffice/Ourenquiryandresearchservice.aspx
If it is Sarah then maybe Ann was born out of wedlock and Sarah fibbed to Ann about father being called Joseph, or Ann just gave her Grandfather's name on the marriage certificate to save face :-\
Daisy
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I have seen a grandfather's name used before. I will try the Bedfordshire link. Thank you for looking this up. I wonder if Ancestry or Findmypast would have the same transcription. There were a family named Wilkinson in Walthamstow West Ham Essex at the same time as Ann nee Wikinson, Sarah's daughter, was there, married to Reuben Brown. Though I couldn't pin down a connection when I looked at it before, I suspect ann and the other Wilkinson family were related as according to the Walthamstow bereavement people the wife, Rebecca Wilkinson, had either bought or given the use of their own plot to Reuben and Ann (nee Wilkinson) Brown for their family in 1887 (two of Ann and Reuben's children died the same month so it was obviously a family tragedy that might have tugged on Rebecca's heartstrings). In fact three of the Brown children, plus Reuben, and Ann were all buried in that same plot by 1910, and they have an enormous headstone. No other clues! I think Rebecca's husband was a Joseph Wilkinson but I don't have the census handy now.
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Hi Daisy, I was not able to get anywhere without buying a lot of research time on the Bedfordshire site. But I do think you were right about that transcription.
I was tracking an Amos Wilkinson today, born Risley Bedfordshire, he lived in Stevenage, Hertfordshire with his family and then alone by 1861, and died in the early 1870's. Looks like the name spelling got mixed up. J
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Hello Daisypetal & Heathgirl. I'm descended from the Joseph Wilkinson route, & may have some family info of interest to you. In my research, I have not been able to identify the parents of Joseph Wilkinson born in Riseley (about 1806) & I ask if you may be able to guide me. With best regards, alwilko.
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There was a Joseph Wilkinson who died in Royston area before 1834 (around 1822 I think), I found that entry on the LDS site. Her daughter Ann was not his child as she was born in 1834. Sarah was listed as a schoolteacher born Riseley Bedfordshire on the entry ledger for the Fever Hospital in Middlesex in 1851. Interesting that the census had her as a lacemaker. It is the right Sarah, as her witness at her wedding was an Annie Tarling, and Rebecca nee Wilkinson who was admitted with her had the married surname Tarling. They were from the same place but I don't know if they were sisters in law or sisters. Any light you can shed on the Royston family?
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I might add that I would like to know if the Rebecca Tarling who died in Walthamstow was the same woman. There was another Rebecca Wilkinson living there with a Joseph, but she was his wife, and she died in the 1900's. I think that Joseph was related to Sarah. Perhaps they were siblings.
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This link to the Ancestry site has info which may assist you: http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/16479461/family?cfpid=20202221152
The missing Joseph Wilkinson whose census details point to him as being born in Riseley in 1806 lived in Wistow, Huntingdonshire. In 1841, he married Eliza Gaylor, who was born in Royston: so he might have lived in Royston during their earlier years, or been born there himself. In 1849, Joseph & Eliza had a son, named Joseph Wilkinson. It was he who was married to Rebecca Wilkinson. Rebecca's maiden name was Lowe. She came from Gedney Hill in Lincolnshire. Joseph & Rebecca moved to Dalston in London & later to Richmond Road in Walthamstow, which is shown as being in West Ham. I have further details of them if you need, including photographs.
This Rebecca Wilkinson appears very unlikely to be the same person as the Rebecca Tarling you describe. Joseph died in 1926. Rebecca Wilkinson died in 1933.
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Thank you for providing this. I have to think it over a bit.
There still seems to be some possibility of a connection. Thou, as you have told me, Lowe was a maiden name.
Have you ruled out the Joseph Wilkinson and his spouse Rebecca as relatives?
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Ruling out a relationship may be extreme, as even the shared name of Wilkinson alone provides some linkage, but I can see nothing stronger than that at present.
The '1806 Riseley born' Joseph Wilkinson I seek, who was the son of a farmer from Brampton, might fit with the Joseph Wilkinson marriage in 1800 to Mary Hasler, shown in the Ancestry site link I provided. They married at Little Chishill, Cambridgeshire, which is only 5 miles from Royston, & the groom was a farmer.
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It may not help, but so we don't get too muddled here, there are two unknowns I am interested in. Firstly, a Rebecca Tarling was born a Rebecca Wilkinson, in Riseley, married to a George Tarling in Middlesex, and in Southwark on the census after 1851. I know she was related to Sarah, the relationship could be sister, or sister in law. Ihave not found George Tarling's death or burial record, which might give a clue to where she was buried. She was definitely not a Rebecca Lowe by birth. Secondly, a Rebecca Wilkinson owned the burial plot the Ann nee Wilkinson and Reuben Brown family used. It seems plausible this was Rebecca nee Lowe (married to Wilkinson) as she was in correspondence with the cemetery well after Ann died in 1910 and they all lived in Walthamstow.
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Hi,
I've no connection to your family but thought I might help out if I can,
Have you seen this confusing death and burial for a George? I thought it worth looking at as the family are living in Wandsworth registration district in 1871
Death
Transcribed as and image does show it as FARLING
George FARLING Sep Q 1872 Wandsworth 1d 343
Age: 64
Burial
Transcribed as FARLING, looks like TARLING on the image to me :-\
Norwood Cemetery, Norwood Road, Lambeth
George TARLING
No. 38369
14 Aug 1872
Abode: Wandsworth and Clapham Union Workhouse
Years 40
Very odd, I can't find a George FARLING who would fit either the above death or burial and I've no idea why the death record says 74 but the burial says 40.
It seems there was an infirmary at the workhouse so he might have been there as a patient rather than an inmate.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Wandsworth/
Not sure if this helps or hinders :)
Regards,
Daisy
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Thank you Daisy for raising George 'Farling' info, which I have noted. It might well be useful in my tracking of Joseph Wilkinson to reveal whether or not the generation above is relevant to my research, and does help.
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So one George Farling age 40 and one George Farling alias Tarling (a name mistranscription) age 64. George Farling 64 as the Index states, has the right birthyear for George Tarling and lived in the correct district. George Tarling was born in woodbridge, essex in abt 1808/1809.
Clever to find...thanks for pointing to this. Perhaps Rebecca Tarling moved to Walthamstow as a widow. I have found other burials not indexed, or apparently not reported, so that might explain the man aged 40, or otherwise, the age of 40 was an error on the part of the workhouse but the actual report was accurate. this could happen if family were present at the death and knew the correct age.
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To Alwiko: the personal message system seems too complicated for me when I try to replly, but if sending photos you might prefer it. They would be of interest, of course.
I have been mystified by the connection of Sarah to Joseph, who was also living in Walthamstow by 1881, for some time. I will have a look at the censuses when I am able.
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To Heathgirl: I agree that the Personal Message system seems lumpy in its use, but you requested I obtain & send you some 'non posted' info specifically via that route. I have noted some key points linked to the marriage you requested & feel it would be normal to place them here, to assist others' research too. Would that be OK with you?
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Yes, I am only thinking if you have something sensitive to yourself, to send it by pm.
I personally have no objection to the public posting.
So feel free!
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Here is the extract, Heathgirl, which might assist you:
Joseph Wilkinson, possibly born Wimbush, Essex, about 1776.
Married Mary Hasler at Little Chishill, Cambridgeshire about 1800 (at his age 24). Mary was born in 1775 & died in 1815.
Married Elizabeth Barnett (or Barnet) at Keysoe, Bedfordshire, 0n 28 Feb 1831(as a farmer, at his age 55). Elizabeth was born in 1810.
Joseph died at Riseley, Bedfordshire, in 1859 at age 83.
Son Joseph born about 1800.
Marriage to Sarah Whitmore at Royston, 13 Oct 1825.
Died at Royston, Herts in Oct 1841.
Sarah Wilkinson born at Riseley, Bedfordshire in 1805. Died at Royston, Herts, in 1873, aged 68. Daughter Ann Wilkinson, born at Heydon, Essex, about 1834. Died 21 Dec 1910, aged 76, at 25 Rosebank Road, Leyton, Essex.
There is more detail. If you signal any more specific points of interest, I shall check to find if they are mentioned at the site.
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Thank you. If Sarah was a Whitmore married to a Wilkinson they should be together on the 1841 census with daughter Ann (e)unless his death was registered very late or they were living apart for some reason just before he died. I have not been able to find them together, so unsure about the significance of that marriage. I have tried to find Joseph W alone in the past. Will give it a go again. Other than that the only possibility is information on death certs, which I do not have.
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I'll keep a look out during my own research, & if I find anything that seems relevant to you, I'll raise it. According to Bedfordshire Archives, who have proved very helpful, the Joseph Wilkinson I seek, shown in the 1851 Census as being born in Riseley, seems unlikely to have been born there, & may have originated from over the County border. I shall now be looking more into Huntingdonshire & Cambridgeshire.
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Giving it more thought, I go back to the Annie Tarling who witnessed Ann Wilkinson's marriage to Reuben Brown in 1861, whom I think was a relative of Ann's given the fact the other witness was a J. Brown, a relative of the groom. Looking at the 1881 census, there is an Ann Tarling born abt 1845 in Hertfordshire married to a James Tarling living at 3 Billet Lane in Walthamstow, while the Browns are then living at 19 Billet Lane. I could use some help looking for the marriage of James Tarling for that Ann's maiden name. And James may have some connection to George Tarling, husband of Rebecca Wilkinson (born Riseley, Bedfordshire) that I have not discovered.
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Hi
For the pile of notes . . . . .
Xmas Day 1865
Sarah Ann Wood
Waltham-Abbey, Essex, England
James Tarling / Sarah Ann Wood
Fathers= James Tarling / William Wood
1871 James & Sarah Tarling + son Arthur + "newborn" in Waltham Holy Cross
1881 James & Annie Tarling + Arthur +++ in Walthamstow
One comment, just because one witness is related has no bearing on who/what the second witness may be.
Ray
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Thanks Ray for answering my question about James and Ann Tarling in Walthamstow. Thanks to you I know now the spouse of James was not the Annie Tarling who witnessed Ann Wilkinson's wedding in 1861. Thanks for pointing out too that wedding witnesses need not be relatives. I am back to wondering if Annie Tarling witness was Rebecca Tarling's daughter (born Clapham), someone Ann Wilkinson had likely been living with, as Rebecca Tarling nee Wilkinson, her young son George, Sarah Wilkinson and her daughter Ann Wilkinson were all residing in Clapham prior to admission to the Fever hospital in 1851, and they came in together. I think I will have to order the death certificate for a Rebecca Tarling (West ham, essex) to see if it could provide a clue based on where she died and who the informant was. If anyone has access to SEAX and the burial information I would be grateful. Any other suggestions for ways to proceed are welcome.
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To Heathgirl: There is a public member tree on the Ancestry site, which contains info about Reuben Brown + George Tarling & Rebecca Wilkinson, & their family. embracing a number of related people. If you wish, before my subscription expires, I may be able to transcribe & provide some information presented there which might help you. If so, please inform me.
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for Alwilko: I wonder if you noticed there is a Joseph Wilkinson single Brewer born 1845 living 22 Wellington Street in Hackney in 1871. He is with Mary Wilkinson born 1828 and Jane Wilkinson born 1860 Wistow. Jane is a daughter to Mary but Joseph's status has been changed from son to lodger on the form. He marries after this census in Hackney. I noticed at the marriage Joseph does not put his father as deceased though his father had died in 1860 in Huntingdonshire, whilst Rebecca Lowe had noted her father was deceased. So a couple of oddities to look at.
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For Heathgirl: I appreciate & thank you for your info about Wellington St, Hackney, which is very interesting. The details seem beyond coincidence to indicate that the persons are members of my own family, yet appear to include some anomaly I have not yet been able to solve. Similarly, I recall from previous data that your & my ancestry are most likely linked, but with some other detail missing, so not quite confirming it. I shall inform you of any progress resulting from my research following the helpful lead you have provided. Best regards.
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as a postscript to some questions I raised previously in this thread: I obtained the death cert of Sarah Wilkinson (sometimes indexed as Wilkerson) who as noted, died in Royston. She was tended by Anne Brown of Walthamstow (her own address on Higham Hill was helpfully given on the cert which corresponds to a census in Walthamstow, however their relationship is not noted). The place of death was Heydon, Essex. Sarah Wilkinson therefore was likely Anne's mother, or as a long shot a maiden aunt who raised her. There are two baptisms for an Ann Wilkinson that fit in 1834: one in Reed, Essex, to Sarah Wilkinson, and another later in 1834 in Heydon, Essex to a Mary Wilkerson, a lacemaker. Anne's mother was a lacemaker and Anne was born in Reed, Essex, on the 1851 census, but Anne later said she was born in Heydon. I think Sarah Wilkinson was baptized Beulah or similar to Joseph Wilkinson and Mary Yarrow, and was a sister of the Rebecca Wilkinson who married George Tarling, lived in Clapham, and died in West Ham, Essex. If anyone knows more about the place of Rebecca's death I would appreciate that information. I noticed yesterday George Tarling was "paralyzed" on the 1871 census so it is surely his death indexed as "Farling" in 1872, a previous discussion about this was on this thread. open to any more than comes my way about this family
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I received the death pdf re Rebecca (nee Wilkinson) Tarling, age 72 in 1878 and have three questions about it. She died at West Ham Union. Present was R. Brown of Walthamstow (which I feel must be Reuben Brown, Ann Wilkinson's husband). There are no street addresses though, moreover it appears the entire details part of the entry was overlaid and rewritten for some reason; there is actually a tiny top bit of the prior writing visible between the headings and the details portion and the (overlaid) details portion of it is slightly skewed. So: Were death entries sometimes modified in this manner, and why? Can anyone tell me if there is a way to order a copy of the original death certificate from Walthamstow records, since I have found a local certificate can be slightly different from the GRO? Lastly, are there existing records for West Ham union or WH Union infirmary that might offer more information about her admission and family details? Thanks
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Hi heathgirl. Much time has elapsed since our last contact, but within the past few days I have found info which I feel may answer several of the queries you previously raised linking Reuben Brown & Rebecca Wilkinson. The info may take some time to organise & select into what you may now need, so as I'm not familiar with your own extent of progress, I ask if you would pose a current question which I shall attempt to answer for you. Best regards.
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Hi thank you for replying. in reply I would say it appears fairly conclusive to me, at least, that Ann Wilkinson was the Daughter of Sarah Wilkinson. The Joseph Wilkinson who died in 1841 in Royston could not be her father after all as since our discussion the GRO index has added age at death and as he was a child's age according to the GRO index. It appears another Joseph was born to the same couple about 1804. The death certificate of Rebecca Tarling in Walthamstow, as I noted, did not have anything to help apart from the name R. Brown. If my assumption about Ann and Sarah is correct then perhaps Joseph Wilkinson who lived in Walthamstow was a nephew of Sarah. I am wondering if your information supports this assumption, thanks.
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Info I have seen indicates:
Sarah Wilkinson (1805-1873) was a sister of Joseph Wilkinson (1806-1861). They were both children from the marriage of Joseph Wilkinson (1776-1859) & Mary Hasler (1774-1830). Anne Wilkinson (1834-1910) was Sarah’s daughter, possibly outside marriage. In 1851, Anne was treated for Typhoid Fever at The Fever Hospital, Liverpool Road, Islington (note: not Liverpool Street). She married Reuben Brown in 1891. The Joseph Wilkinson who married Rebecca Lowe, & lived in Walthamstow, was Sarah’s nephew. I have access to a sepia image of Anne & other info to add detail which might fit with what you need.
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I ask heathgirl, if you have any questions about the info I have recently found, enabling to find out & respond while I still have access to reading it. Pls inform me.