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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: curtisd on Saturday 24 November 12 19:49 GMT (UK)

Title: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Saturday 24 November 12 19:49 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am searching for ancestors of Julia Holland.  She was born around 1813/1816/1818. The location of birth varies between Holborn or London on the censuses.

She married 1837-10-02 Eton, Buckinghamshire to James Robert Bowler (Born 1816-01-21 Colnbrook, Buckinghamshire). On the marriage certificate it does not list her fathers name.

I have searched for baptisms and bastardy bonds but cannot find anything.

Kind regards,

Curtis

Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: jennifer c on Sunday 25 November 12 10:23 GMT (UK)
Do any of the witnesses give any clues, what about her mother's name?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Sunday 25 November 12 10:43 GMT (UK)
I do not have her mothers name.

The witnesses appear to say William and Elizabeth Goodman.

Attached is a copy of the certificate: http://en.geneanet.org/archives/actes/actesenligne/1014212
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Wednesday 28 August 13 18:21 BST (UK)
I have found this, could it be the same Julia Holland?

Name:    Julia Holland
Age:    29
Estimated Birth Year:    abt 1816
Date of Trial:    6 May 1845
Trial Year:    1845
Location of Trial:    Middlesex, England
Sentence:    Imprisonment
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 29 August 13 09:12 BST (UK)
If yours married in 1837, then she would be Julia Bowler by the time of this trial.

But if the 1837marriage in Buckinghamshire is a different person , then this could well be the Julia bn 1819.

Or I guess she could have reverted to her maiden nam for some reason.

We just dont know if it is the same person with no more information.

Have you found your Julia (Bowler) in 1841 and 1851? If she is married with a family in Buckinghamshire, then she is unlikely to be back in London committing crimes under her maiden name at the same time.
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Thursday 29 August 13 10:18 BST (UK)
Quote from: lizdb on Thursday 29 August 13 09:12 BST (UK)
If yours married in 1837, then she would be Julia Bowler by the time of this trial.

Sorry I got confused. It can't be the same one who married James Robert Bowler.
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: jorose on Thursday 29 August 13 15:21 BST (UK)
Julia married in Horton. William and Elizabeth Goodman, who appear to be a married couple on the census there in 1841, may be the William Goodman and Elizabeth Aldridge who married in nearby Dachet in 1836.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2TC-2JS

So probably friends of the bride and groom, not relatives.

Having a look for Julias born in Holborn, this popped out:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTB5-662
Julia Hatchley, daughter of Elizabeth.

No further trace of these two - the name itself might be misspelt or mistranscribed.  The main issue is that she could have easily have been baptised as Hatchley or some other name, and then taken Holland as the surname of her step-father or foster family, or been informally adopted.  She may not have even known what her original baptismal name was.
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Thursday 29 August 13 19:38 BST (UK)
Thank you for your reply. I will keep searching.
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Wednesday 11 September 13 15:49 BST (UK)
Can you find any marriages of Hatchley and Holland? I have searched but could not find anything. I was hoping that her parents got married after she was baptised? Or maybe you could be right and something else happens.
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: [Ray] on Thursday 12 September 13 10:12 BST (UK)
"If yours married in 1837, then she would be Julia Bowler by the time of this trial. "

I think it may be a remote possibility that it is her.

Reason?
She does not appear to be with James on 1841.
He is with his father/mother and stays very close to them (next door but 1-2) all thru the 1851-61-71 census records.

Haven't looked for her yet, anyone found her in 1841?

1851-61-71 with James in Langley Marish(Colnbrook)

Ray


Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: [Ray] on Thursday 12 September 13 10:31 BST (UK)

Note for the pile . . . . .

1841 HO107 60 7 5 page4 In Eton, there is
Elizabeth Holland 65 "Ind" nbic
with a number of pupils

Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 12 September 13 10:38 BST (UK)
James  and Julia had a daughter Julia  baptised in Colnbrook in 1840, so I have I feeling she can't be far away
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: [Ray] on Thursday 12 September 13 15:02 BST (UK)
Hi

1851 only shows Ann 8 and James 4 with father&mother James+Julia
So did daughter Julia die young?

Added . . . .
Yup!?
Death Mar 1844 Eton 6 296 Julia BOWLER

Ray
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: jennifer c on Thursday 12 September 13 18:58 BST (UK)
At least she was not the one who went to prison.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Thursday 12 September 13 20:00 BST (UK)
Do you mean their daughter Julia died young?
Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: [Ray] on Friday 13 September 13 07:33 BST (UK)
Hi

I should have said "Did dau Julia die young?"

Very possible, but you'd probably need that death cert to prove it.

Cannot find the 2xJulia on the 1841

Ray




Title: Re: Julia Holland
Post by: curtisd on Wednesday 13 December 17 19:07 GMT (UK)
Quote from: [Ray] on Thursday 12 September 13 10:31 BST (UK)

Note for the pile . . . . .

1841 HO107 60 7 5 page4 In Eton, there is
Elizabeth Holland 65 "Ind" nbic
with a number of pupils

Sorry. Missed this message. Thank you.