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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: nw_whiskers on Tuesday 08 January 13 21:36 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace my relatives John Alexander & Mary Carnegie through the Fettercairn OPR but it is an uphill struggle as the two children I know about were born about 1807 and 1815 from the ages given on their DCs. They are in the 1841 Census at East Hill of Craigo, Logie Pert. Alex., Alexander, William his son and Elizabeth his aunt as William's mother died a few days after he was born in 1835. The 1851 Census states that Alex Alexander, age 44 years was born Fettercairn, KCD. The DC for Elizabeth also points to the above John Alex., & Mary Carnegie. Unfortunately there is nothing I can find that points to a place in Fettercairn or a birth record in the OPR that I can work from. I have an OPR marriage of a John Alexander and a Mary Carnegie at Marykirk 15 July 1798 ("both of this Parish") so it could be them!
The only hope I have at this stage is that there were other siblings so if anybody can see these names in their family tree I would be most grateful of a line from you. I may be missing something but what is it?
nw_whiskers
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I have Carnegies on my tree from Bervie in 1800c My 3 x Gt Grandmother, Catherine was born in c1808 an d she married John Allan. Her father was Alexander Carnegie.
Regards Lynda
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Hi ,
Not that it helps much, but some have a James Alexander(1815 - 1869) with parents John and Mary
Carnegie :-\
Wife Ann Turnbull Taylor(married 1849 Dunnichen).
There is a death for a James Alexander 1869 Logie Pert Angus , born c1817.
ev
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Dear Lynda, We are given from Alex Alex., son of JA & MC Death Cert that John Alexander was from Fettercairn, Crofter/Weaver which is more than sparse to work from as we have no record of births for Alex Alex b ~ 1806 and his sister Elizabeth Alex b ~ 1815. We have the death certificates for both of them and they say the same thing about John Alex and Mary Carnegie. There could have been more members in that family but we have yet to find a trace of them. We see from the Horse Tax Records ~ 1797 that a number of Alexander familes were on the Glen Esk side of the Fettercairn Parish and that some of them went to the Edzel Church. An Alex Alex was at Hallhill Farm and David Alex at Balfour Farm. The Glen Esk connect is at best speculation but we keep working on it! We know that there are a number of Carnegie Families in that area as well. There are Carnegie Families up and around Craigo and as you say up at Bervie as well.
Unfortunately, we have nothing specific to go forward with at the moment but we do appreciate your interest in the subject.
Somebody may come up with a link out of the blue into the subject of John Alexander & Mary Carnegie or the two children Alexander & Elizabeth that we know about so we have NOT given up hope yet! Are there more children in that family is the open question as they could give us the tiny little clue to help us move forward with the subject?
Many thanks for your interest, nw_whiskers
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Dear Ev, Many thanks for James Alexander 1815 - 1869 as he looks an interesting prospect for me to follow up on. It is a new lead that is well worth following up on even if it fails to pan out in the end. Nothing ventured ..... I will most certainly post the results!
Many thanks, nw_whiskers
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Dear ev, James Alexander d 1869 is a GREAT lead for me as his parents on the DC are exactly what I see on John Alex., and Elizabeth Alex., DCs Yes, they could easily be brothers & a sister so I will work on the North Craigo, Logie Pert connection and hopefully bring new life to a very old investigation that ran out of new ideas long ago. The Brechin or Montrose Newspapers from that time may help for starters. The 1861, 1851, 1841 Census are possible and where buried is more fertile ground ... perhaps one of the Montrose ones as Ogilvie Taylor the brother in law is from near there. I can but hope to find a birth record for him ~ 1816/7 (Fettercairn or Edzel perhaps) as that would be a perfect find!
Any more gems on the subject would be most welcome!
Many thanks for your help, nw_whiskers.
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Dear ev, The 1861 Census gives James Alexander, age 46, North Craigo, Logie Pert as Hedger & Woodcutter born Kincardinshire, Fettercairn so that fits in with John and Elizabeth Alex., just fine which is great. I have plenty of more work to do on this one but it is all going in the right direction.
Many thanks for you input, nw_whiskers
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Hi nw_whiskers
I am researching the Ogilvie/Ogilvy TAYLOR who you mention as being the brother in law of one of the ALEXANDER family.
Our Ogilvie TAYLOR was born about 1816 in Strathcaro according to census and died in Montrose in 1881. He married Jane TURNBULL in Dunnichen in 1840
Can you point me in the direction of the document that refers to Ogilvie as a brother in law please? We have been unable to trace a birth/baptism record for him and any information may help.
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Dear Mgeneas, The only reference I have to Ogilvie Taylor is on the "James Alexander" death certificate 18 Nov 1869 at Logie Pert. The J Alex death certificate witness was Ogilvie Taylor, brother in law (not present) Rosemount Cottages by Montrose. James Alexander was married to Ann Turnbull Taylor and her parents were Robert Taylor and Jane Laing according to her death certificate dated 1 December 1904 (aged 80 years). The witness for her death certificate was James Beattie, son in law.
The parents of the above Ogilvie Taylor and Ann Turnbull Taylor are Robert Taylor and Jane Laing from Dunnichen. Ann Turnbull Alexander nee. Taylor is in the 1861 Census (46) for Logie Pert. If it helps Ann Turnbull Taylor was born around 1904 - 80 = 1824 if the 80 years is correct.
You may well find a line on "your" Ogilvie Taylor on 1861 Census or earlier ones for around that area somewhere!
Best wishes, nw_whiskers
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Dear Mgeneas, Two Little extracts from the 1841 Census and 1851 Census yield some "very interesting" nuggets that requires me to revise my thinking on Ann Turnbull Alexander nee. Taylor and her connection to Ogilvie Taylor at Rosemount, Montrose. I even know where Rosemount is so I will have a look around there the next time I am passing.
Have you any clues to where he was buried at Hillhead or at one of the Montrose burial sites?
Best wishes, nw_whiskers
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I have the death record of Ogilvie/Ogilvy Taylor, master gardener
He died Jul 26th 1881 at 11 Market St, Montrose.
Father Robert TAYLOR deceased ??? journeyman
Mother Jane TAYLOR maiden surname DUKE
registered by Jane Anne TAYLOR - his unmarried daughter
Now, I suspect that the name of the mother is incorrect (that Jane Anne was a bit muddled) because DUKE is the name of Ogilvie's mother in law, in fact Ann DUKE married James TURNBULL 1816 in Stracathro.
So if the Jane is correct for his mother he MAY in fact be the son of Robert Taylor and Jane Laing
I have no idea where he was buried.
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Cross checking the death certificates is paying dividends which is good as mistakes are sometimes are made in the stress of the moment. Ogilvie Taylor may be buried locally (Hillside area) or in one of several sites in Montrose but we have more than enough to work with for now.
I had Robert Taylor age 62 farmer and Jean Taylor age 58 at Lethem Den & Braes from 1841 Census but we need to keep that one on review to see if it is correct.
I happen to have a some pictures of the Headstones from Stracathro so the Taylor, Laing and Turnbull surnames are certainly represented so we will see how that fits in if at all. For example a large headstone has a Euphemia Turnbull born around 1867 on it so it will be interesting if she fits in somewhere along the way but it could become a distraction.
Best wishes, nw_whiskers
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This is part of Ogilvy's death record, I cannot make out his father's occupation though the second word seems to be journeyman
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Perhaps it's "Joiner"? - the J is the same as the J in Journeyman and the R at the end of Market Gardener trails away along the bottom line in the same way?
Best wishes,
breaky.
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You could be right breaky - thanks
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Well done Breaky you may be correct as Robert Taylor is called a Millwright in one census and a Journeyman in another so Joiner could well be the right answer. If we accept the Joiner as correct we can focus on the REAL problem of establishing what the records support on Ogilvie (Ogilvy!) Taylor. The IGI Micro Fiche has:
Taylor, Ogilvy, Jean Turnbull, H, M, 14 Jun 1840, Angus, Dunnichan
Taylor, Ogilvy, Jean Turnbull, H, M, 14 Jun 1840, Angus, Montrose
Taylor, Ogilvy, Ogilvy Taylor/Jean Turnbull, M, B, 17 Aug 1856, Angus, Montrose so that is looking hopeful.
The next part comes from the Ogilvy Taylor's death certificate (as I understand it!):
Robert Taylor is his father the Joiner and his Mother in Law is Ann Duke. The DC witness got it wrong on the day but Ann Duke was married to James Turnbull in 1816 at Stracathro. So who was his Mother? A "possible answer" comes from another death certificate. According to this DC from 18 Nov 1869 James Alex., was married to Ann Turnbull Taylor who was Ogilvie Taylor's "sister". He was the witness for that one. Her (Ann T.T.) parents are given as Robert Taylor and Jean Laing.
They are also in the IGI:
Taylor Robert, Jean Laing, H, M, 24 Oct 1801, Angus, Stracathro.
Taylor Robert, Robert Taylor/Jean Laing, M, B, 2 Nov 1801, Angus, Stracathro. The "tough testing" question I have in my mind is - did this Robert Taylor and Jean Laing have Ann Turnbull Taylor in 1824? If so where is the record to support this story? Yes, it is another visit to the IGI to see if it all stacks up correctly.
Best wishes and sleep well, nw_whiskers.
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Ogilvy Taylor, Master Gardener was probably named after Wm Ogilvy Esq, Farmer at Stracathro as the Taylors ran out of family First Names or they were trying to "hanging in" with Wm Ogilvy Esq.
nw_whiskers
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Or perhaps he was the illegitimate son of William Ogilvy and a Taylor girl! ::)
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Taylor, Ogilvie has a burial record in Angus on 29 July 1881. nw_whiskers
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Thanks nw_whiskers. I don't feel like spending money on a burial record when I already have the death record though.
There are a lot of gaps in children for Robert TAYLOR and Jean/Jane LAING
They marry in 1801 at Stracathro (5 days before Robert was born)
Robert 1801
William 1803
Margaret 1805
Christian 1807
Elizabeth 1809
Colin 1815
Then possibles
Ogilvy 1816
Ann 1824
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Angus Council "outsourced" their burial records to deceasedonline.com some years ago. The latter are offering a scan for Ogilvie Taylor 29 July 1881 for a small fee which would give you the "cemetery name", the lair number and other names buried in the same plot if you are very lucky. It all depends on what is of value to you!
The OPR entry for Robert Taylor 02-Nov-1801 could be better value as it "could have" the names of witnesses and where they stayed if the Church Officer was in top form. If it was a top notch document it would give the Names of the Grandparents but that is probably over the top. If the Church was "cross" with them that may be in evidence in the text. Again it is a matter of what is of value to you!
Ann Turnbull Alexander nee. Taylor claimed "born Dunnichen" for each Census she was in but it is still Angus and we have yet to find a birth record for her so they "could" be lost or not recorded.
If, I am on Market Street, Montrose some time soon I will have a look for Number 11 to see if it is still in existence.
nw_whiskers.
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Ah - I was thinking of Scotlands People again. I forget about deceased online as usually I find they have not 'done' my areas.