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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: JaymorseCo on Saturday 09 March 13 02:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi all, grateful for any help tracing the parents and their forebears of brothers patrick and john Bucley, who were active in mudgee, nsw in the 1860s and who are both buried in Coonabarabran cemetery. I have been able to identify most (all) descendents of John and patrick but have drawn a blank on their parents
Cheers.
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Hi there,
Welcome to Rootschat.
Would you like me to ask a Moderator to move this all across to the Australian Board :)
In the meantime, I will see what I can find in my offline NSW resources.
Cheers, JM
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Hi,
I am not sure what info you already have, so I hope I am not duplicating :
NSW Electoral Rolls 1870 THE BOGAN
Patrick BUCKLEY, residence at Coolah Road, Honeysuckle (within the Coonabarabran Police District)
James BUCKLEY, residence at Binnia Plain, Binnia. (within the Coonabarabran Police District)
NSW Electoral Rolls 1878 THE BOGAN
Patrick BUCKLEY, freehold, Myall Plain, BINNIA
John BUCKLEY, residence, MYALL PLAIN.
Cheers, JM
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May I please ask:
Do you have a copy of (or a transcription of) the 1915 NSW BDM death cert for Patrick BUCKLEY?
"The death is reported from Coonabarabran of Mr. Patrick Buckley, of Girrawa, one of the oldest graziers in that district, aged 72." http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/77599990 Dubbo Liberal and Macquarie Advocate 3 Sept 1915.
NSW BDM ref 10883/1915, registered at Coonabarabran, ONLINE index has the parents as John and Margaret. I note that in 1925, a John BUCKLEY's death was registered at Coonabarabran. His parents given names recorded as John and Margaret also.
Also noticed a John BUCKLEY's death in 1891, again registered at Coonabarabran. His given names not recorded on index online. ::)
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
Possible clues re parents for the brothers : Patrick and John
From NSW State Records Office, online index there’s
A probate file for a John BUCKLEY, of Myall Plains with date of death as 15 Sept 1891, duty paid 9 May 1892.
a Probate file for a Margaret BUCKLEY of Myall Plains with date of death as 24 Nov 1897, with Duty Paid 18 March 1898
a Probate file for an Ellen BUCKLEY of Coonabarabran, death 11 Aug 1929, duty 7 Oct 1932 (her occupation noted as widow) *could that be Patrick’s widow? (NSW mc 2592/1865 Ellen HAMBLIN and Patrick BUCKLEY)
a Probate file for P BUCKLEY OF Myalla (sic) death 25 Oct 1912, duty 4 Jan 1913
a Probate file for P BUCKLEY of Markton, death 21 Aug 1915, duty 5 Feb 1916
If you are near to Kingswood NSW (an outer western suburb of Sydney) you can view (and take copies/images of) the files.
Here’s the link to the index http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=15&new=1
Here’s a link to NSW SRO’s Brief as to what to expect in a Probate Packet (there’s usually lots of family history info, quite often there’s a copy of the NSW BDM death cert and that document can be quite informative) http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-84
Cheers, JM
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HI JM, Thanks heaps for your replies - I'm impressed with the speed of reply and details you provide. The details for John and Margaret are especially interesting as they were Patrick and John's parents. Ellen Buckley (nee Hamblin) is indeed Patrick's widow. He died August 15 1915 (obtained from a headstone in Coonabarabran cemetery). The John Buckley who died on Sept 15, 1891 would be John senior, Patrick and John's father, Margaret their mother. Again I only have those names from the brothers headstones, so the probate files are an excellent lead. I don't know who the 'P. Buckley of Myalla who died Oct 25 1912' is, but there do seem to have been many Buckleys in the central west region about that time (especially Mudgee, Dubbo, Baradine and Coonabarabran) only some of whom were related to my ancestors; one of my critical tasks is to tease out who is who before about 1870. I hope to be heading through Sydney in next month or so - do you have the details of the Kingswood location (& institution?) to visit?
I think the Electoral role records are very likely to be the Buckley brothers - they seem to have spent a fair bit of their lives living very near to each other, and probably worked together most of their lives.
Since I'm really just starting out, I don't yet have much in way of certificates (BDM) so thanks for those references.
Finally, I don't really know fully how the chat site works, so I am vey happy to go with your suggestion to move the thread to the Australia board. Thank you for that adivce.
So thanks again for your info - I will start following that up straight away.
Cheers J. Morse
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:)
I have used the "Report to Moderator" option and asked for the thread to be moved to the Australian Board ;D There should be plenty of helpers along ;D
The Probate Packets (and lots of other vital archives) are held at the NSW State Records Office, O'Connell St, Kingswood
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/contact-us/contact-us
The NSW State Library, Macquarie St, Sydney has historic Electoral Rolls although there's some also held at Kingswood :)
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/archives-in-brief/archives-in-brief-5
Many Cheers, and again, Welcome to RChat
JM (I'm a tad NSW centric....)
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So here you are now, across on the Australian Board ;D
Should not be too long before other Aussie RChatters are along to Welcome you too.
Cheers, JM
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Good Afternoon,
Not exactly what you are looking for but may provide some foliage for the tree:-
In 1885:
Surname First Name Holding/Place PD Post Town Acreage Horses Cattle Sheep Pigs
Buckley A. B. Nash's Flat Mudgee Mudgee 27 2 0 0 0
Buckley John Talewang Mudgee Tallewang 120 4 0 0 0
Terry
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Hi JaymorseCo :)
Welcome from me too
Here is golden wedding announcement for Patrick and Ellen - announced 9 Sep 1915 (shortly after he died?)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article15612602
regards,
Ros
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Probate of will of Margaret Buckley late of Myall Plains to be granted to Annie Nora Hosking executor of will 30 Dec 1897
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article14181772
regards,
Ros
adding : near the bottom of the third column from the right
adding : here is diamond wedding for Marian Buckley (2nd daughter of Patrick) and George Hosking
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article17948824 6 aug 1945
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Two of John (jun) children getting married - just in case you don't have this. Yes I know you want to find out more about the parents
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70947323
regards,
Ros
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Probate for John Buckley (sen) late of Myall Plains to George Hosking (jun) the executor of the will 18 nov 1891
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/cite/1396399/13852810
about halfway down the 5th column from the right
regards,
Ros
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Samuel James Buckley (son of Patrick) suing for return of 2 draught horses.
It contains some interesting titbits of Patrick's movements and property
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71222758
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Hi Terryau and Rosball,
Thank you for the interesting bits on the buckleys. Taking them in order: I'm not sure about John Buckley of Talewang Mudgee, it is possible its my John, and the A.B., is likely to be Abraham John, who's relationship to John and Patrick I'm yet to determine, but he was in Mudgee having kids at almost exactly the same time as Patrick so may have been another brother or perhaps a cousin. Intriguing. Abraham and his wife, Sarah Evangeline Dinsdale (married Mudgee, Jan 28, 1874) kept busy - they had 14 kids between 1874 and 1901!
In relation to Patrick and Ellen's Golden wedding - I can only assume the notice took a while to get to the paper (Patrick died August 21, 1915). I certainly have a record them marrying in Mudgee in 1865.
Probate on Margaret is very interesting - she is probably John and Patrick's mother. great lead.
Marions diamond wedding anniversary - a couple of things: the date would have her marrying in 1885 when Patrick's eldest daughter (Ann) would have been 19 years old - about the right age but wrong name. My info has Patrick's brood including five daughters, none named Marion. So who is she? Maybe there's another Patrick somewhere. I would be very interested to know, since the Hosking name is certainly linked to the Mudgee Buckleys.
The marriages of John's sons are interesting and confirm a link with the Cussens (Annie Buckleys sister was married to Sam Cussen) note also in the same newspaper, the death of Samuels mother Jane at the age of 68.
Thanks also for probate notice for John senior - I plan to visit the NSW Records office to see this and a few others in near future.
And draught horses - he won the case, well done.
So thanks again, I'm very pleased to have joined this group and in only a few days have many new info and leads to follow up.
J Morse
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I would like to add my thanks too, particularly for finding the death date for Jane Cussen (nee Sullivan) which does not appear to have been registered. The Hyeronimus connection is also interesting because it is such an unusual name.
Cheers Neil
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Hi
May or may not help http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=snake2000&id=I35677
Muss
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Hi there,
May I presume you have a copy of the NSW BDM record of the 1865 marriage certificate (or an official transcription)…. It is likely that there’s lots of vital information MISSING from the NSW BDM records.
Marriage certificates record information provided by the bride and groom, so are usually reliable “first hand” sources. Sadly, NSW BDMs ledgers for the civil registration period 1856-1895 have missing information. BUT, the information IS usually available as the clergy did collect it, but refrained from forwarding all of it to NSW BDM, thus there’s some hurdles to find confirmation about the parents of the bride and groom (Patrick BUCKLEY and Ellen HAMBLIN, NSW BDM ref 2592 of 1865, registered Mudgee District)….
At RChat, there’s various resources boards. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,399.0.html
Here’s the link to the NSW one: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html
On that link there’s lots of external links that are worth investigating. These include links to NSW BDM, and to Official Transcriptions.
Transcription Agents:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
NSW BDM:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
There’s also a link to a thread I did up to help overcome the hurdles on NSW BDM marriage certs from the 1856-1895 era.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
So, it should be possible to confirm the details of who were Patrick’s and Ellen’s parents, their father’s occupations, Patrick’s and Ellen’s ages at marriage, their places of birth, their occupations, etc from the information that the clergy recorded when they married. I think the information on marriage certificates is more reliable (particularly as to names of parents) than the information on death certificates.
Also :
I notice that familysearch.org have a transcription from St Joseph’s, Gunnedah for Horacius Guielmus BUCKLEY, born 20 Oct 1891, christening date of 19 Sept 1898. Horace’s parents recorded as Patricius Buckley and Helena Hamlin. (Latinised names recorded on Roman Catholic records). https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTC5-LFM I think this would be for Horace William BUCKLEY whose birth was registered in the Brewarrina District. (NSW BDM 8016/1891, parents Patrick and Ellen).
Cheers, JM
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http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?Page=NRS5316/4_4790/Java_24%20Apr%201853/4_479000495.jpg&No=4
Here's a link to the passenger list for the Java arriving April 1853, to Sydney. Hopefully I have linked page 4, and the HAMBIN family, including Ellen, aged 6. There's no way to know for certain that's "your" Ellen without the names of her parents as per her mc.
I haven't found Patrick and John BUCKLEY's arrival to NSW yet due to the huge numbers of people with that surname :)
Cheers, JM
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Marions diamond wedding anniversary - a couple of things: the date would have her marrying in 1885 when Patrick's eldest daughter (Ann) would have been 19 years old - about the right age but wrong name
When a Marion Hosking dies in Kiama in 1959, it gives her parents as Patrick and Ellen. reg 26728/1959
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au
Annie Buckley and Marion Buckley are both married in Coonabarabran in 1885 to William and George Hosking and have adjacent reg numbers 6202 and 6203. I wonder if it was a double wedding of sisters to brothers ....? (just speculating :) )
regards,
Ros
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I speculate that John Buckley and Margaret ?? were married in Ireland about 1841. Patrick was born about 1842 and they arrived before Richard was born in 1844. Then came John 1846, Matthew 1848, Margaret 1850, and Mary A in 1853. The rhetorical question is was Mary A the Anatasia who married Nicholas Hyeronimus? If I find anything I wll post it. I believe Irish records are a problem.
Cheers Neil
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I am the great niece of William Hosking who married Annie Buckley, his son Wilson married my aunt Ethel Meah Holmes in 1909. It is my understanding from oral family history (all are deceased now) that there was a double wedding with the two brothers marrying the Buckley sisters. Annie to William and Marion to George. Of course this is only hearsay now, but the fact that the marriage certificate contains following numbers must be a huge clue. Wilson Hosking had a sister called Beatrice who lived at Collaroy or that area. Wilson and Ethel Hosking lived in Clovelly and he was a boilermaker and friend of the Governor General Bill McKell, who was a frequent visitor to the house. I understand Mckell was a former boilermaker. I know this because I lived in Clovelly house for a few years with my parents. Just for interest. Regards. ancestor seeker
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Hi there AS
You can easily confirm your oral history by getting official transcripts of those 1885 mc for The Buckley marriages 6202 & 6203 found by Ros . Who do you have as the girls parents?
Clovelly HOuse and McKell as a visitor ... There is something to pass on through future generations
Cheers JM
I am the great niece of William Hosking who married Annie Buckley, his son Wilson married my aunt Ethel Meah Holmes in 1909. It is my understanding from oral family history (all are deceased now) that there was a double wedding with the two brothers marrying the Buckley sisters. Annie to William and Marion to George. Of course this is only hearsay now, but the fact that the marriage certificate contains following numbers must be a huge clue. Wilson Hosking had a sister called Beatrice who lived at Collaroy or that area. Wilson and Ethel Hosking lived in Clovelly and he was a boilermaker and friend of the Governor General Bill McKell, who was a frequent visitor to the house. I understand Mckell was a former boilermaker. I know this because I lived in Clovelly house for a few years with my parents. Just for interest. Regards. ancestor seeker