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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bickleton56 on Friday 31 May 13 10:02 BST (UK)
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I am currently researching my Family History, and I have some evidence that suggests that my Grandfather, WILLIAM MORGAN,who was born in 1879, might possibly have his birth place as Laugherne Carms.
His Father was also a WILLIAM MORGAN, he is down on my Grandfathers' wedding certificate as a "Labourer",the wedding being registered in St Peters Cockett Swansea, in March 1901.
Can anyone help me find my Grandfathers 'birth details.Also his Father, my Gt Grandfather, was WILLIAM MORGAN and he is down on my Grandfathers' marriage certificate as a Labourer and living in Llangefelach Rd Swansea.
Can anyone find my Gt Grandfather on the 1901 and 1911 census.I have my Grandfathers'details on the 1901 and 1911 census.He was married to MARY ANN HARRIS.
PLEASE contact me on
(*)
Thanks,
Graham.
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Welcome to Rootschat! ;D
The only likely William & Mary Ann Morgan couple I can see in 1901 is this one
1901 1409 Neath Rd, Swansea RG13/5073 folio 8 pg 7
William Morgans head mar 22 buther
Mary Ann wife 19
both born Swansea
As he gives his place of birth on this as Swansea, what leads you to believe that he was born in Laugharne?
The only addresses given on a marriage cert are for the 2 people marrying so Llangyfelach Road would have your grandfather's address, not his father's.
There's this possible from 1891
10 Dyvatty St, Swansea RG12/4480 folio 44 pg 6
William Morgans head mar 45 labourer general copper works b. Carmarthenshire, Laugharne
Elizabeth wife 37 grocer & tea dealer
Sarah Ann dau 18 general servant
Lydia dau 14
William son 13
Elizabeth dau 6
John son 4
Maud dau 3
Albert Ed. son 1
all born Swansea except William senior
and in 1881
10 Dyvatty St RG11/5359 folio 124 pg 7
William Morgans head mar 35 copperman b. Carms, Laugharne
Elizabeth wife 27
Sarah A dau 8
Lydia dau 4
William son 2
Thomas son 1
all born Swansea except William senior
Given the common combination of William & Morgan it may be easier to get a sibling's birth cert to confirm Elizabeth's maiden name -
Lydia Morgan sept qtr 1876 Swansea vol 11a pg 699
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Many thanks for your reply, and the useful information you have provided.I can now follow this up with Swansea Register Office.Could you possibly have a look to see if WILLIAM MORGAN can be found on the 1871 census....he might very well not be married at this stage.
Many thanks, again,
Graham.
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I had a look for him the other day in earlier census years and haven't found him as yet in 1861 or 1871. This could be 1851
St Issells, Haroldston, Pembs HO107/2478 folio 13 pg 18
William Morgan head mar 38 farm labourer b. Pembs, Llanstadwell
Martha wife 32 b. Carms, Laugharne
Thomas son 9 b. Laugharne
William son 6 b. Laugharne
Richard son 4 b. Pembs, St Issells
Mary Ann dau 1 b. St Issells
Jane dau 18 b. Pembs, St Martins
Looks as if William has been married more than once. I'll have another look around for William.
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Bit of a long shot but was wondering if this MIGHT be William Senior born c 1846 Laugharne
on 1851 census with a mother named Liddea/Lidia/Lydia :-\
1851
HO107; Piece: 2472; Folio: 455; Page: 19
Sorry can’t make out the full address C? House
James MORGAN 34 Boat man
Liddea 36 St Clears
Ann 11
Richard 9
Margaret 8
Elizabeth 7
WILLIAM 5 (1846) Laugharne Township
Rebecca 4
James 2
Isbelia 1 week
1841
HO107; Piece: 1382; Book: 10; Civil Parish: Laugharne Carmarthenshire; E D: 4; Folio: 11; Page: 14
Castle Street Township of Laugharne
James Morgen 20 occupation He???ng man
Lidia 25
Ann 1
William 5 months
FreeBMD has this marriage entry
Sep 1839 Carmarthen
James MORGAN
Name on same page
Lydia LEWIS
1839 marriage (no parents named) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCLL-2JL
ADDED
Not sure if this is the same Isabella (Isbelia from 1851 census)
1891
RG12; Piece: 4516; Folio: 46; Page: 1
Water Street
Isabella GEORGE married 39 Laugharne
James JONES son 19 collier
Sarah George dau 5
David Philip George son 6 months
Lydia MORGAN mother widow 77 St Clear of no occupation
possible death of Lydia but age does not match https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCLG-XV1
1881
RG11; Piece: 5397; Folio: 114; Page: 34
Isabella JONES widow 30 Laugharne occ Servant
1881 census
Lydia Morgan fishermans widow with grandson James JONES age 9
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQW4-3KZ
1871
RG10; Piece: 5494; Folio: 50; Page: 12
Cliff Side Laugharne
Lydia MORGAN widow 57 St Clear Carmarthenshire
Matilda 18 servant
John 14
Thomas 13 sailor boy
Isabella JONES married boarder 20 Laugharne sailors wife
Marriage entry Mar 1871 Carmarthen
William David JONES only other name on page Isabella MORGAN
1871 marriage (no father's name given) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCLL-P5Y
Can’t find Lydia, Isabella, Matilda, John, Thomas Morgan on 1861 census ???
wanted to check whether Lydia & Isabella are the same persons from 1851 census with husband/father James
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that's certainly a possible. Poster will need William & ELizabeth's marriage cert to be sure. I'll type up the other entries for the other Morgan family in case I forget where I found them.
Hill St, Haverfordwest, Pembs RG10/5526 folio 20 pg 11
Martha Morgans wife widow 50 laundress b. Laugharne
John son 18 labourer b. Pembs, Fernhill
James son 14 b. Fernhill
Fernhill is in the parish of Haroldston St Issells.
William's younger brother Richard from the 1851 census is in Swansea in 1871 RG10/5455 folio 31 pg 5. Martha is in Swansea in 1881 RG11/5361 folio 129 pg 34 and there's a possible for James in Swansea in 1881 RG11/5356 folio 86 pg 7. But, I'm not finding William in 1871. He could be in lodgings and didn't get recorded.
:-\
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1851 address for James & family is Ferry House, Cliffside
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1851 address for James & family is Ferry House, Cliffside
Thank you
I have been trying to find the Morgan family from 1851 census (see my reply 4) on the 1861 census
but I keep drawing a blank ??? Some obviously are old enough to have left home, perhaps they are just missing or the names may have been badly transcribed ???
James & Lydia
children
Ann
Richard
Margaret
Elizabeth
WILLIAM (1846) Laugharne Township
Rebecca
James
Isbelia (Isabella)
other children from 1871 census
Matilda
John
Thomas
of course father James Morgan may have died before 1861 census
Lydia is a widow on 1871 census and last child Thomas born c1858
3 deaths between 1859 – 1860 (FreeBMD)
2 Reg District Narbeth, 1 Reg District Carmarthen (this James has middle name Francis)
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a death that took place in Laugharne would have been registered Carmarthen
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Hi Osprey.
From the marriage certificate for my Grandfather,WILLIAM MORGAN, in March 1901, his age is down as 22yrs.So assuming that his Father, My Gt Grandfather (also a WILLIAM MORGAN) was approx 25 at the time of my Grandfathers 'birth, that would put WILLIAM MORGAN (Snr) as having a birth date of around 1846 "ish"
I only say this as I wondered how this could fit in with what you have found from the 1851 census...any further comments?
I am most grateful for all the help you are providing.
PLEASE keep in touch,
Gratefully yours,
Graham.
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the only way to be sure is to go one step at a time and it can be dangerous to assume ages at marriage or at birth of a child. You need to use certs in conjunction with census entries. The 1881 & 1891 census entries show that William senior was about 33 when your grandfather was born. The birth cert for Lydia should give Elizabeth's maiden name so that you can then identify the marriage for William & Elizabeth. Without knowing her surname, there are too many registered Swansea to be sure which is their marriage. From their marriage cert, you should find the name & occupation of your greatgrandfather's father. Without that cert, there's no way of knowing if his father is James the boatman or William the ag lab or someone else not yet indentified.
:-\
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Many thanks Osprey.
I will obtain the birth certificate for Lydia,as you suggest.
If you do come up with any more leads etc, PLEASE do contact me.
I will be in touch as soon as I obtain the birth certificate.
Yours gratefully,
Graham.
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well, I've found baptisms for some of William's siblings
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VFHK-7VF -expalins why I couldn't find her birth reg, I was looking for Maud, not Jubilee Maud
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VFZC-6R9 - death reg for him in 1893
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VFZV-J61
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VF83-PW4
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VFZZ-9Z1
can't find the ones in the middle though, so perhaps they were baptised in a church whoise records haven't been transcribed as yet. As he was married in St Peter's, it's likely that William had been baptised.
But, I think Sylvanus' middle name has helped as there is this likely marriage
William Morgan march qtr 1873 Swansea vol 11a pg 818 with Elizabeth Padley on the same page
so Sarah Ann born a little before their marriage
Sarah Ann Padley june qtr 1872 Swansea vol 11a pg 649
1861 census for Elizabeth's family
25 Greyhound St, Swansea RG9/4105 folio 67 pg 14
John Padley head mar 31 miller
Elizabeth wife 28
William son 9
Elizabeth dau 7
John son 4
Sarah Francis mother-in-law widow 60 lace maker
Mary Francis sister-in-law 37 cap maker
all born Swansea
marriage reg for parents
John Padley march qtr 1851 Swansea vol 26 pg 648 with Elizabeth Francis on the same page
Padley should be a much easier name to research than Morgan. Hope the maiden name on the birth cert you've ordered matches!
;)
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there's new info to come for this thread...
;)
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thanks Tessa,
I get the idea, I think!
Will try it out,
Regards,
Graham.
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Many thanks for the data for 1881/1891 for WILLIAM MORGAN (Snr)...that makes the picture more complete now.I know that he was alive in 1901,as he is down on his Sons' marriage certificate (March 1901,Cockett Church Swansea), and he was living in Llangefelach Rd Swansea, and classed as a "Labourer".
The strange thing is that all my efforts,and some help from other sources has failed to find him on the 1901/1911 census.
Maybe he died before the 1901 census was taken (?).I believe you also had a try at finding him (?)...could you just confirm that for me.Trouble is,as yet, I do not have a date for his death/burial.I
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just because it doesn't say deceased on a marriage cert, it doesn't mean the person is alive. As I said earlier in the thread the address is for William, not his father. The address of the father is not noted on a marriage cert. My gggrandfather wasn't noted as deceased on 4 marriage certs for his sons in the 1850/60s. He died in 1835.
http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/marriages.htm
possible death reg?
William Morgan 49 june qtr 1895 Swansea vol 11a pg 539
No, I can rule that one out as that William was Chairman of the School Board
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=6197
this link allows you to search the Cambrian Newspaper
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Hi Tessa,
I have just received a message about WILLIAM MORGAN Snr...remember I told you that he is on the marriage certificate for his Son (my Grandfather)....so he was definitely alive in 1901.
The message I received from another friend who is helping me! says....
"The marriage certificate for his Daughter confirms that he was dead by 1907 "
I am waiting for more details on the certificate....will get back to you on that, as soon as I can.
Thanks Tessa,
Graham.
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the name of the father on the certificate does NOT mean he was alive at the time. Please refer to the link I gave you where it notes that "if the father of the bride or a groom has died by the time of the marriage then it should say "deceased" under his name but this is not a very reliable item".
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Unfortunately my attachment is too large to send.Any chance you could let me e-mail it to you....it is the marriage certificate for MAUD MORGAN,
Regards,
Graham.
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no need to send it as I have access.
The address at marriage, 33 Lion Street, looks to be the home of her elder sister, Sarah Ann, who married Thomas Henry Rickard in 1891. Thomas Henry died aged 26 in dec qtr 1897 Swansea vol 11a pg 527. His widow is in the 1899 Swansea directory at 99 Llangyfelach Street as Mrs S A Rickard. The occupant of 33 Lion Street in the 1906 directory is Mrs S A Richard which seems too much of a coincidence.
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Thanks Tessa,
Have a lovely weekend,
Will keep in touch,
Graham.
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Hi my great grandmother is sarah ann morgan, married thomas henry rickard and they lived at 33 lion street, i have documents showing their marriage etc, sarah ann morgans parent lived at 143 llangyfelach road pentre estyll, sarah ann and thomas henry went on to have a daughter elizabeth ellen rickard (my grandmother) and elizabeth ellen rickard went on to marry my grandfather samuel eaton who lived at 141 llangyfelach road pentre estyll. hope this helps you
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Hi Ellen,
I don't suppose you would be willing to scan and send me a copy of the marriage of Sarah Ann Morgan.
My e-mail is*
Hope you do not mind my asking,
Best wishes,
Graham.(*)
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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William Morgan born in 1846 in laugharne to James and Lydia Morgan (nee Lewis from st clears) married 1839 , was a brother to my g grandfather also named James born 1849 , they were born in cliff side ferry house Laugharne ,
The James Morgan who married Lydia died i think it was 1865 of consumption , leaving Lydia a widow , his father also called James died in 1879 at 89 years of age , they were ferrymen , and i think one side of the ferryhouse was a pub guest house ,
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William Morgan born in 1846 in laugharne to James and Lydia Morgan (nee Lewis from st clears) married 1839 , was a brother to my g grandfather also named James born 1849 , they were born in cliff side ferry house Laugharne ,
The James Morgan who married Lydia died i think it was 1865 of consumption , leaving Lydia a widow , his father also called James died in 1879 at 89 years of age , they were ferrymen , and i think one side of the ferryhouse was a pub guest house ,
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Hi andymor,
Can you PLEASE contact me as soon as possible....
I think we can share some information between us...if you are happy with that
bickleton56 - your email address is likely to removed by a moderator again (see reply23)
best to use the Personal Message system on Rootschat to exchange personal information andymor will need to reply at least twice to use the PM system http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Message from Graham to andymor..
Tried to PM you...Can you reply to this thread which will then empty your Inbox,and then I can PM you..I URGENTLY need to contact you.. PLEASE comply...I think we can share much information regarding our families.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Best regards,
Graham.
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andymor won't be able to use pm facility, another couple of posts needed first so just reply to this thread with a hello!
:D
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It has been less than 24 hours since new member Andy (hello Andy) posted Graham, please a little patience, this member has been notified of your reply not all of us are able to access emails if we are busy working or on holiday.
I did send you a pm but you have not replied to me either ?
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I have sent a e-mail to you , but i aint got used to this site yet , besides i had an annoying grandson here tonight , so aint had time to reply lol ,
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and hello Sarah :)
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Gravestones at Laugharne Church, the numbers relate to a list only. I have provided this and photographs for Graham.
21 Sacred / to the memory of / James William Morgan / son of / Thomas & Ann Morgan / who died June 20th 1874 / Aged 22 yrs / Yes he is gone and we are going all / like flowers we wither and like leaves / we fall / Also of Thomas Henry Morgan / died Sept 20th 1882 / Aged 27 yrs
22 in memory of / Thomas / son of James and Rebecca Morgan / who died June 12th 1856 / Aged 33 yrs / we cannot Lord thy purpose see / But all is well that`s done by thee
24 Sacred / to the memory of / William / son of James and Rebecca Morgan / who died August 16th 1832 / Aged 21 yrs / Also the above Rebecca / wife of James Morgan / of Ferry house in this town / she died June 13th 1862 / Aged 72 years / The Lord giveth and the Lord hath taken / away: Blessed be the name of the Lord / Job 1c21v / Also of James Morgan / husband of the above / who died Nov 15th 1879 / Aged 89 years ------------Stone in front----------sacred to memory of / Elizabeth Morgan / late of Brook Mill / who died Janry 6th 1826 / Aged 76 years / Also Abra Elizabeth / daughter of / James & Elizabeth rea / who died Oct 2nd 1854 / Aged 16 years
25 In / memory of / Abra Morgan / who died March 28th 1836 / Aged 5 years + 2 months Also of William R Morgan / who died Oct 25th 1835 / aged 2 Years + 9 months
98 In loving memory of / Elizabeth Morgan / who died Dec16th 1898 / aged 51 years / Blessed are the dead which die in / the Lord for they shall rest from / all their labours
143 In memory / of / Catherine Morgan / who died May 2nd 1831 / Aged 21 years / Short was my days longer my rest / God call`d me now because he thought best / Also of Catherine Morgan / who died April 29th 1857 / Age 12 years / The Lord Gave and the Lord hath / Taken away Blessed be the name of / the Lord
144 In Memory / of / Joseph Morgan / who died March 10th 1847 / Aged 55 years / we cannot Lord thy purpose see / but all is well that is done by thee / Also Mary wife of / the above Joseph Morgan / died Octr the 5th 1869 / Aged 75 Years
225 In / memory of / Esther George / died March 25th 1860 / Aged 76 / Also Charlotte Morgan / died August 7th 1859 Aged 4 years / Also David Morgan / died Sept 1st 1865 Aged 1 year / Also George John son of / George and Esther John / died Sept 25 1908 / Aged 17 years / thy will be done /…..bottom of grave…./In loving memory of / Matilda / wife of Thomas Harries / Pwllgreen Marros / died Jan 8 1948 Aged 60 years / rest in peace
226 Sacred / to the memory of / Thomas Morgan / son of David & Martha Morgan / died May the 12th 1867 / aged 18 years / Death has been here and borne away / A brother from our side / Just in the morning of his day / As young as you he died / Also in loving memory of / the above named Martha Morgan / who died Feb 19 1905 / Aged 82 years / The Lord hath heard my voice / When I did mourn and cry /
352 Sarcophagus / JOHN MORGAN / ../ ..of this town / ..died…/ December the …17..6 /aged ..Years /
758 Sacred / to the memory of / Elizabeth / Daughter of James Lydia Morgan / of this Town / who died November 15th 1861 / Aged 18 years / We cannot Lord, thy purpose see / but all is well that’s done by thee /
760 Sacred / to the memory of / James Morgan / late Ferryman of Laugharne / He Died October the 9th 1864 / Aged 48 years / We cannot Lord thy purpose see / but all is well that’s done by the / Also Lydia Morgan / wife of the above / who died Dec 15 1892 / Aged 70 years / Thy will be done /