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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: tedscout on Wednesday 19 June 13 05:46 BST (UK)

Title: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Wednesday 19 June 13 05:46 BST (UK)
While driving to work this morning I listened to an interview on ABC radio here in Victoria and thought we could help with one of the mysteries.

A ship's Figurehead was donated to the Nepean Historical Society a few years ago and it has been identified as being from the ship named "Sea" that was wrecked at "the Heads" in 1853. The ship was leaving Melbourne and it is believed the captain was "hungover" after just getting married.

Using TROVE I have found the captain's name was James McKay and he married Jane Taylor on 23 May 1853. Also according to TROVE the shipwreck occurred on the 31st of May 1853.

According to the interview James went down with his ship, but they haven't yet found what happened to Jane?

If you want a treasure hunt - here's one - lets find Jane!

Cheers, Ted
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 19 June 13 06:13 BST (UK)
According to their marriage announcement, Jane was the relict of the late James B Taylor, merchant of Melbourne.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4793135

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Wednesday 19 June 13 06:48 BST (UK)
I saw that. What does Relict mean?
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 19 June 13 06:51 BST (UK)
It means widow ... (relict is an awful expression   ).

Just reading about the wreck and it doesn't sound like many were saved.

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 19 June 13 08:04 BST (UK)
Wonder if Relict has anything to with Derelict ;D

No name :-[
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 19 June 13 08:55 BST (UK)
Well they mostly use it for the wives/widows - sounds like a remnant "possession"  :(.  But I did see it used for a husband/widower recently. 

cheers,
  Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 19 June 13 09:45 BST (UK)
This looks like Jane's first husband:

Death: 10 May 1850 James Brand TAYLOR age 27yrs, Occupation - Draper
Burial: 11 May 1850 registered at St James, Church of England, Melbourne #4822

Born: 9 August 1822 Montrose, Angus, Scotland
Parents: George TAYLOR & Jane BRAND

Married: Jane ANDERSON 27 Oct 1846 Perth, Scotland

I can see a couple of children born in Scotland before they emigrated.

Jane Christina Anderson TAYLOR b. 28 Jul 1847 chr. 14 Aug 1847 Perth, Scotland
Allan Anderson TAYLOR b. 7 Feb 1849 chr. 21 Mar 1849 Perth, Scotland
Parents: James Brand TAYLOR & Jane ANDERSON
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 19 June 13 09:57 BST (UK)
Marriage in VIC:

TAYLOR Jane Christina Anderson m. DICKINSON James Henry 1876 #4600

Death:

DICKINSON Jane Ctina Anderson age 81yrs d. 1929 PRAN #6925
Father:  Jas Brand TAYLOR
Mother: Jane  ANDERSON
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 19 June 13 10:02 BST (UK)
Death in VIC:

TAYLOR Allan Anderson age 1yr d. 1850 MELBOURNE #28185
Registered at St Peters, Church of England, Melbourne
Father: James Brand TAYLOR


Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: majm on Wednesday 19 June 13 12:05 BST (UK)
There's lots of things about family history that can be confusing.   

Relict is one of those politically UNcorrect words....  :) it is usually gender specific ....

Relict is a very old fashioned word, and back in the days when Latin was taught at school .... it comes from a Latin word meaning "leave behind" .... so when a marriage ends with the death of the husband, then his widow is said to be 'left behind' and thus when she dies she is referred to as is his relict, provided she had not subsequently married someone else.

So, when my late Gran died, she was referred to by the Minister at the Church Service, as the Relict of (my late Grandfather)....  I was a child at the time.   I thought the Minister said that my Gran was the RE-LICK of (my late Grandfather) ..... and so I asked (in my loudest voice) .... "Does everyone here have to lick the lid too ....."   Yes, there was a smack and I was sore when I next sat down.   


http://genealogy.about.com/library/glossary/blglossary.htm

Cheers,  JM

Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: jorose on Thursday 20 June 13 01:20 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5905252?searchTerm=%22Dickinson%22
  - marriage of daughter, listed as "Jennie Taylor" - her and husband both of Castlemaine.

I wonder if Jane might have reverted to using the name Taylor, as the marriage to James McKay was so short lived.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Thursday 20 June 13 01:31 BST (UK)
Perhaps Jane remarried a third time under her maiden name  :-\

ANDERSON Jane m. GILLESPIE John 1855 #612

Death:

GILLESPIE Jane (born MONT) d. age 44yrs 1867 #3982
Father: Allan ANDERSON
Mother: Jane UNKNOWN
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Sunday 30 June 13 02:55 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,

I have heard from the Nepean Historical Society, they are so greatful for our help. We have gone further in finding Jane that they have, although they have a copy of the marriage certificate between Captain McKay and Jane. I have asked for them to send me all the information on the certificate.

Thank you everyone who is helping with this treasure hunt. I am going to buy the marriage certificate for Jane and her first husband (when I figure out how to get it from Scotland). I will let you know what it says. I am looking for her parents so we can nail down one of the later marriages.

Cheers, Ted
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 30 June 13 03:20 BST (UK)
Want me to try to get it through Scotland's people to which I subscribe?

If so  - hang on a bit!

Nothing coming up - wonder where I am going wrong.


Wiggy
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 03:39 BST (UK)
I have some credits and I can see it - just about to download  :)

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 30 June 13 03:41 BST (UK)
so why can't I see it then???   Not fair!!   :'( ::)   ;D

Wiggy   ;)

p.s. - I gave them too much info!  less info and I found the result!
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Sunday 30 June 13 03:42 BST (UK)
Thanks Wiggy, that would be fabulous.

I have found Jane's daughter Christina died in Prahran in 1929 her married name was Dickenson.

Red post: Thank you Ros.

I have to go and help deliver phone books with my Scouts now. Back later.

Luv Ted
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 03:45 BST (UK)
It's under pre-1853 marriages Wiggy  :)

I have downloaded it but can't yet see it as I have to install a new version of Java TM  :( (which is currently installing).  How frustrating.

cheers,
  Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 30 June 13 03:53 BST (UK)
I'll try -  now that I've found it! ;D

Here we go  -  don't know that it is going to be much help!  :-\
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Sunday 30 June 13 04:07 BST (UK)
I have found Jane's daughter Christina died in Prahran in 1929 her married name was Dickenson.

I gave you that information previously in reply #7... she is buried at St Kilda Cemetery with some of her family:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0v0a/
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Sunday 30 June 13 04:12 BST (UK)
Here we go  -  don't know that it is going to be much help!  :-\

Which is a good match to the death in my reply #11.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 04:14 BST (UK)
Possible marriage of parents Allan Anderson and Jean Duncan in Montrose 1806
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTKM-WMQ

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Wiggy on Sunday 30 June 13 05:41 BST (UK)
Here we go  -  don't know that it is going to be much help!  :-\

Which is a good match to the death in my reply #11.

Ahh - good so it was helpful!    :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 06:21 BST (UK)
If Merlin has found a third marriage for Jane, then there are the following for John GILLESPIE & Jane ANDERSON ........

Peter GILLESPIE born 1856 at ELPHINSTON
Ref = 5880

John GILLESPIE born 1860 at ELPH
Ref = 4655
Little John only lived 26 days.
Ref = 3243


Dee    :)

Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 06:24 BST (UK)
This is probably the marriage of the son Peter……
Peter GILLESPIE born ELPHINSTONE married Arabella HALL in 1880.
Ref = 3986


Dee    :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 06:33 BST (UK)
Peter GILLESPIE & Arabella HALE/HALL had the following children…..


John Lambert GILLESPIE born 1881 at INGL
Ref =24271

William GILLESPIE born 1884 at KING
Ref = 10437
(There are two entries for William…the other number is 25503)

Allan Ellis GILLESPIE born 1886 at KING
Ref = 27272

Clare Kaye GILLESPIE born 1889 at KINGOWER
Ref = 23093

Hugh Ralston GILLESPIE born 1891 at KINGOWER
Ref = 34484

Eliz Anderson GILLESPIE born 1894 at KINGOWER
Ref = 21933

Eleanor Flor GILLESPIE born 1896 at KINGOWER
Ref = 28940


The son William died in childhood.....
Wm GILLESPIE aged 4 born Inglewood died in 1889.
Ref = 8011


Dee    :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 07:03 BST (UK)
Peter Gillespie's death....

Peter GILLESPIE aged 57 died at Kingower in 1914.
Father = Jno GILLESPIE & Mother = Jane ANDERSON
Age: 57
Ref = 2183


Dee   :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 07:17 BST (UK)
Obit to Peter Gillespie (unfortunately hard to read  :( )

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article89867246

regards,
   Ros

adding : a readable one  :) http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article92043458
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 07:25 BST (UK)
very nice Obituary there about Peter, Ros.   :D

I don't know if Ted wants info about descendants, but you never know what someone googling might come forward with that relates to Jane. 


Dee    :)


 
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 08:03 BST (UK)
Marriages of most of Peter's children.....

Clare Kaye GILLESPIE married Wm Thos Harold LONG in 1913
Ref = 6388

Jno Lambert GILLESPIE married Olive Bessie SALATHIEL in 1910
Ref = 6966

Alan Ellis GILLESPIE married Myrtle BOYLE in 1915
Ref = 9813

Hugh Rolston GILLESPIE married Connie TAYSOM in 1920
Ref = 491

Eleanor Flor GILLESPIE married John Alexr CATTO in 1922
Ref = 9970


Dee   :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 08:41 BST (UK)
The Gillespe marriage is correct.

Her death certificate says that she was married 3 times:
(1) James Taylor who she married at the age of 21
(2) James McKay who she married at the age of 30
(3) John Gillespie who she married at the age of 33

Children listed were:
Jane Taylor 20 yrs
Allan Taylor, dead
Peter Gillespie 11yrs
Jane Isabella Gillespie 9 yrs
John Gillespie dead

Place of birth - Montrose
Time in Victoria - about 17 yrs

Died 30 March 1867 at 1 pm at Elphinstone - aged 44yrs (born 1822/23)
Buried at Tarradale 1 April 1867
Died of softening of brain and paralysis that she had for 2 years

Informant - John Gillespie, Husband, resident at Elphinstone

Parents Allan Anderson & Jane Hatter


Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 08:51 BST (UK)
marriage for Gillespie -Salathiel http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article90677346

birth of a daughter for Hugh and Connie http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4691964

red warning : Wow selkcerf you downloaded her death cert - well done  :)

cheers,
  Ros
 
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Sunday 30 June 13 08:58 BST (UK)
I have found Jane's daughter Christina died in Prahran in 1929 her married name was Dickenson.

I gave you that information previously in reply #7... she is buried at St Kilda Cemetery with some of her family:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0v0a/

Sorry Merlin Iwasnt concentrating - thank you for finding it.

I think I have "phonebook brain"

Thanks, Ted
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 09:01 BST (UK)
Excellent, selkcerf!

I can't find the birth of the daughter though......it's evading me!   ::)


Dee    :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 09:09 BST (UK)
No birth registration for the daughter, but there is a marriage:
Jane Isabella Gillespie m Beeror Lambert Hall 1881 Victoria

and a death
Jane Isasella Hall d 17 Jan 1940 Cwell, Victoria age 82, buried Kingower, Victoria
parents: John Gillespie & Jane Anderson

Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Sunday 30 June 13 09:13 BST (UK)
Selkcerf - thank you so much. I think I can now go back and tell Nepean Historical Society that we found her and some of her family.

The only other thing that is puzzling me is that if James and Jane had a son on 7 Feb 1849 in Scotland and James died here in Melbourne on 10 May 1850 how did they get here and why did they come?

I've looked at all the incoming passengers on PROV and I cant find them. However, the Unassisted records only start in 1852.

Red post: thank you so much everyone

Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 09:14 BST (UK)
Glad it's been a success for you, Ted!   :D

I’ve now found the deaths of Peter GILLESPIE’s wife Arabella, and most of their children….

Arabella GILLESPIE aged 69 died in 1926 at IWOOD
Father = Wm HALL & Mother = Elizth Clare LAMBERT
Ref = 14306


John Lambert GILLESPIE aged 66 died in 1948 at IWOOD
Father = Peter GILLESPIE & Mother = Arabella HALL
Ref = 20955

Clare Kaye LONG aged 61 died in 1951 at N BTON
Father = Peter GILLESPIE & Mother = Arabella HALL
Ref = 4164

Hugh Rolston GILLESPIE aged 64 died in 1957 at MORN
Father = Peter & Mother = Arabella  HALL
Ref = 20185

Eleanor Florence CATTO died in 1983 at EMU
Father = Petir GILLESPIE & Mother = Arabella
Ref = 20766

Alan Ellis GILLISPIE aged 62 died in 1950 at MTON
Father = Peter & Mother = Arabella  HALL
Ref = 21401

Wouldn't it be great if a descendant got in touch! 


Dee   :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 09:16 BST (UK)
Children of her Gillespie daughter:

ONE
Name:    Elizabeth Clara Hall
Mother:    Jana Isabell Gillespie
Birth:    1882 - Inglewood, Victoria

Name:    Elizabeth Clare Walsh
Mother:    Jane Isabe Gillespie
Father:    Lindsay Hall
Birth:    abt 1882
Death:    1965 - Ferntree Gully, Victoria

TWO
Name:    Isabella Hall
Mother:    Jane Is Gillespie
Birth:    1884 - Ferntree Gully, Victoria

Name:    Isabel Hall
Mother:    Jane Isabella Gillespie
Birth:    abt 1884
Death:    1903 - Kensington, Victoria

THREE
Name:    Jean Hall
Mother:    Jane Isabella Gillespie
Father:      Beevor Lambert Hall
Birth:    1889 - Fernihurst, Victoria
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 09:30 BST (UK)
Quote
The only other thing that is puzzling me is that if James and Jane had a son on 7 Feb 1849 in Scotland and James died here in Melbourne on 10 May 1850 how did they get here and why did they come?

By ship LOL

But seriously they arrived in Melbourne in the intervening period after a sea voyage of many months. Problem is that not all the indexes for the shipping lists are available on-line.

As the State Library of South Australia states - "Prior to 1852, all Port Philip records are found in NSW rather than Victoria." http://guides.slsa.sa.gov.au/content.php?pid=99525&sid=747059
The library also gives references to books that contain pre-1852 lists that they hold in their collection.

Unfortunately a search of this index in NSW State Records also comes up blank.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 09:39 BST (UK)
Death notice for Alan Ellis Gillespie http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22907881 giving children

cheers,
   Ros
adding and for John Lambert Gillespie giving children
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22685778
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 10:07 BST (UK)
Not sure if this is the correct death notice for Clare Long in 1951  :-\
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23050570

It says she is widow of Harold (and that was one of his middle names)

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 10:15 BST (UK)
Death notice for Jane Isabella Hall in 1940 giving children
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11278988

and funeral notice - same page

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 10:24 BST (UK)
Very interesting snippet here......
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8694482

Jane gets a mention, as does Peter Gillespie.....obviously Jane and her husband weren't the only ones to come out from Scotland.


Dee   :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 10:32 BST (UK)
Following on from that find Dee  :) is this obit to a Caleb Anderson who died  in 1893 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8672747

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 10:35 BST (UK)
Caleb Anderson, younger than Jane, must be a son from a second marriage of Jane's father as his mother is listed as Margaret Martin.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 10:37 BST (UK)
Starting to build quite a story here, Ros!   :D

I've now found the marriage announcement for Elizabeth Anderson GILLESPIE...
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1454335

No wonder I couldn't find it in the index....she married in the UK!


Dee    :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 10:55 BST (UK)
Looks like the National Library holds some papers on the Anderson Family.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NK436M5d3n4C&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=Caleb+Anderson+Castlemaine&source=bl&ots=_kutCBx-Pw&sig=UQUx4ShpBgHA7g67UKXJDrRL0ns&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FvzPUYKuC4GDlAWG4ICgDQ&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Caleb%20Anderson%20Castlemaine&f=false

And this letter in the NSW State Library from Caleb in Castlemaine to a John Anderson, I assume living in NSW.
http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemdetailpaged.aspx?itemid=402508

Caleb was a Provisional Director of The Australian Syage Company (Cobb & Co):
COBB & CO...PROSPECTUS OF THE AUSTRALIAN STAGE COMPANY. 1861
PROVISIONAL DIRECTORS ;
Caleb Anderson, Esq.
http://www.megalongcc.com.au/Ambermere/cobb__co_prospectus.htm

Caleb was Major Caleb Anderson of the "Victorian Volunteer Cavalry, or, as it became better known, the Prince of Wales Light Horse"
http://mhhv.org.au/?p=351


Someone named their son after Caleb Anderson: Caleb Anderson Ryland (1857 - 1902) Born in Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia on 1857 to George Brittzmart Ryland and Christina Anderson.

And there is a  building that Caleb built is now National Heritage.
http://www.onmydoorstep.com.au/heritage-listing/273/former-shop-and-residence
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: deeiluka on Sunday 30 June 13 11:44 BST (UK)
Caleb Anderson's digitised will and probate records are awfully large files. I think there must be a lot of reading in them!   :o   ???

And he had his portrait painted.....
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8708606

Elizabeth Anderson GILLESPIE and Edward E COOPER's marriage was registered in the March Quarter of 1919 in the district of Penrith, 10b/845


Dee    :)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 12:00 BST (UK)
George Britimar Ryland married Christina Anderson in Glasgow on 20/8/1848 (from Scotland's People)
... (following on from Caleb Anderson's closest relative was George Ryland who married Caleb's sister)

cheers,
   Ros
 adding : there is a will for George B Ryland who died 1900 on pro vic http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/

and that middlename looks like Britomart to me :-\
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 12:50 BST (UK)
Details from death registrations:

1) Jane was born about 1823  and her mother was Jane Hatter

2) Christina was born about 1828 and her mother was Jane Duncan

3) Caleb was born about and his mother was 1829 and his mother was Margaret Martin

There is something wrong here. Caleb could be from a second marriage of their father Allan Anderson. But Jane and Christina - what is the maiden name of their mother? Or did their father have a number of marriages and 2 wives by the name of Jane?



Christina Ryland d 26 Dec 1879 age 51 in Victoria, buried Campbells Creek / Castlemaine

Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 13:02 BST (UK)
Wow Caleb Anderson Ryland - Caleb Anderson's nephew - Christina Anderson's son - was a father of triplets born in 1890. They must have been premature. The boy lived only 1 day, and one of the girls lived only 14 days.
http://mepnab.netau.net/r/r14.html (bottom of page)

One of the girls, Alice Florence, lived to marry Henry Peterson in 1918 and died at the age of 90 in 1982.



Christina's immigration:
Christina Ryland arrived May 1854,Melbourne, Australia from Liverpool aboard the 'Guiding Star' recorded as age 26

On the ship was her husband, a son Richard (c1849-1920), 4, and "infant" George (1853-1937).
He was Geo Ryland d Warbrton, Victoria age 85 son of Geo Ryland & Ctina Anderson

Then Richard Ryland d Hawthorn, Victoria 1920 age 71, son of Geo Britemart Ryland & Ctina Anderson

The passenger list included only those who boarded the ship in Liverpool in February 1854, so it didn't include another son Allan Anderson Ryland (1854-1854) was born at sea
Allan Anderson Ryland d Victoria aged 8 months 30 Nov 1854 son of George & Christina U, buried Campbells Creek / Castlemaine Victoria.

This boy was born in March 1854, the ship arrived in May.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 13:06 BST (UK)
Great find selkcerf  :)

cheers,
   Ros
(fading slowly - nearly bedtime for me ;D)
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Sunday 30 June 13 13:13 BST (UK)
Death of a Christina Ryland http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4718602
in 1922  (with some familiar children's names like Caleb)

cheers,
  Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: earlybird on Sunday 30 June 13 14:04 BST (UK)
Perhaps Jane remarried a third time under her maiden name  :-\

ANDERSON Jane m. GILLESPIE John 1855 #612

Does anyone know where this John Gillespie came from?, or how long he'd been in Australia? EB
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 30 June 13 14:42 BST (UK)
Looks like Caleb & family in the 1841 Scottish Census:

1841 Census, Logie, Clackmannanshire, Parish 374
Craig Mill Village, end of

Allen Anderson 48 Hat Manufacturer
Jean Anderson 47
Christina Anderson 13
Caleb Anderson 11
All born in Scotland but not in Clackmannanshire

brigau
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 30 June 13 15:47 BST (UK)
1851 census Baker Street, Stirling, Parish 490

Allan Anderson 68, retired hat manufacturer, born Orkney
Jane Anderson 65, born Montrose, Angus

1861 Allan aged 78 is visiting Robert Clouston 54, a Tailor, and his wife Catherine at Stromness, Orkney

Modified to add:

Allan Anderson aged 78, mother's maiden name Seatter, died Firth and Stenness, Orkney 1863
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 19:26 BST (UK)
Quote
1841 Census, Logie, Clackmannanshire, Parish 374
Craig Mill Village, end of

Allen Anderson 48 Hat Manufacturer
Jean Anderson 47
Christina Anderson 13
Caleb Anderson 11
All born in Scotland but not in Clackmannanshire

1851 census Baker Street, Stirling, Parish 490

Allan Anderson 68, retired hat manufacturer, born Orkney
Jane Anderson 65, born Montrose, Angus

This web-site says that when Christina and her family immigrated in 1854 they originated from Stirling. It also says that Christina's parents lived in Stirling.
http://mepnab.netau.net/r/r14.html

Looks like you have solved one mystery Br1gau.

From death notices:
1) Jane was born about 1823  and her mother was Jane Hatter
2) Christina was born about 1828 and her mother was Jane Duncan
3) Caleb was born about and his mother was 1829 and his mother was Margaret Martin

The "Margaret Martin" for Caleb was then definately incorrect - no second marriage for his father. When Caleb died in 1893 it was in Melbourne after both of his sisters. He was batchelor, and it is highly unlikely that the informant for his death knew his mother's name.

Their mother was Jane - just her maiden name is unknown. The answer may lie on the marriage registration for Jane's 2nd marriage to Taylor and/or her 3rd marriage to Gillespie - but this detail may also not have been recorded as only some registrations carried details of parents.



Mmmm - just noticed - Allan Anderson was a hatter by occupation - and I've relooked at her death registration - Jane's death Registration says:

In answer to - Name and surname of Father and Mother, if known, with rank or profession:
Allan Anderson
Jane Anderson
Hatter

You've solved the mother's maiden name riddle Br1gau

Hatter was Jane's father's occupation, not Jane's mother's maiden name. (I should have read the question that was being answered.)

Anyways the parents of Jane, Christina, and Caleb Anderson were Allan and Jane Anderson, and the mother's maiden name was shown on Christina's death registration as Duncan.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 19:59 BST (UK)
Allan Anderson died at age of 78 in 1863, so born about 1784. Mother's maiden name Seatter.

Baptism of Allan Anderson & his siblings at Firth And Stenness, Orkney, Scotland 
Children of:
Father: James ANDERSON                                     
Mother: Christian SEATTER

Christian ANDERSON (F) C: 21 Jul 1770
Thomas ANDERSON (M)  C: 5 Apr 1772 
James ANDERSON (M)  C: 7 May 1774   
Jonathan ANDERSON (M)  C: 10 Jul 1776 
Betty ANDERSON (F)  C: 14 Jun 1778
Wilhelmina ANDERSON (F)  C: Jul 1780   
Euphan Anderson (F) C: 17 Jun 1781 
Caleb ANDERSON (M)  C: 17 Jun 1782                                                         
Allan ANDERSON (M)  C: 10 Oct 1784                                                               
John ANDERSON (M)  C: 1788   

Date of death for Allan Anderson: 15 Apr 1863 

His parents married 01 Dec 1768, Orkney.

Sister Christian married  James Clouston 7 Feb 1807 Firth And Stenness, Orkney. She passed away on 13 Mar 1847.
(Explains why in 1861 Allan Anderson aged 78 is visiting Robert Clouston 54, a Tailor, and his wife Catherine at Stromness, Orkney - Robert Clouston was a nephew.)      
Brother Thomas married Margaret Sabeston on 17 Jan 1799 Stromness, Orkney. He passed away on 1826.
Brother James James married Helen Wishart on 2 Dec 1813 Orphir, Orkney. He passed away on 1850.
Brother Jonothon married Mary Mckinlay. He passed away on 18 Apr 1856.
Sister Betsy married William Louttit in 1797 Firth And Stenness, Orkney.  Betsy next married James Walter and had 7 children. She passed away on 1850.
Brother Caleb  married Margaret Donaldson on 29 Nov 1807 in Montrose.



Christian Seatter C: 14 Dec 1748, Orkney, daughter of Thomas Seatter and Cecilia Stove. Thomas & Cecilia married 11 Nov 1746, Orkney

Thomas Seatter C: 5 Apr 1713, Orkney, son of Magnus Seatter and Helen Conston. His parents married 29 Dec 1701, Orkney.

Cecilia Stove C: 5 Mar 1720, Orphir, Orkney, daughter of Patrick Stove and Eupheme Henderson.
Their other children:
Eupheme Stove, C: 1709, Orphir, Orkney
? Stove, C: 1710, Orphir, Orkney (son)
William Stove, C: 1711 Orphir, Orkney
Margaret Stove, C: 20 Oct 1712, Orphir, Orkney
Edward Stove, C: 3 Jul 1717, Orphir, Orkney
Ann Stove, C: 18 Nov 1718, Orphir, Orkney



James Anderson  C: 1 Nov 1741, Orkney, son of Thomas Anderson (c1716-1774) and Euphan Loutit (c1721-1796). His parents married on 18 Dec 1740, Firth And Stenness, Orkney.
His siblings:
Hary Anderson, C: 1740, Firth And Stenness, Orkney
Margaret Anderson, C: 2 Apr 1744, Firth And Stenness, Orkney
Betty Anderson, C: 2 Oct 1748, Firth And Stenness, Orkney
Thomas Anderson, C: Feb 1754, Firth And Stenness, Orkney
Euphan Anderson, C: 16 Sep 1759, Firth And Stenness, Orkney                       
                                           
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 30 June 13 20:25 BST (UK)
The secret's all in those mad hats. Jane Hatter was married to one and Margaret Martin was pulled out of one, Just leaving Jane Duncan.

This website is good for Orkney and has a lot of BMDs
http://www.cursiter.com/



Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 30 June 13 21:12 BST (UK)
Allan Anderson & Jean Duncan were married Nov 1806 Montrose, Angus

searching births 1770-1800:
Jean Duncan born 31 Dec 1780 Montrose, Angus.  Parents James Duncan & Jean Leighton
Jean Duncan born 2 Apr 1781 Montrose, Angus.  Parents John Duncan & Barbara Ramsay
Jean Duncan born 10 Mar 1788 Montrose, Angus.  Parents David Duncan & Margt Allan
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 21:43 BST (UK)
I was just looking for that marriage in an earlier post - I wanted to see what the surname was:
Quote
Possible marriage of parents Allan Anderson and Jean Duncan in Montrose 1806
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTKM-WMQ
The post was from Ros - so Ros had found the correct marriage -16 Nov 1806
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 30 June 13 21:47 BST (UK)
Spotted that way back on page 2 just after I posted - easy to lose the thread isn't it!
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 21:53 BST (UK)
Just found some of the children (Jane's siblings)

Parents named as Allan Anderson & Jean Duncan

Margaret C: 5 Oct 1807 Montrose
James Duncan C: 13 Jun 1809 Montrose
Allan C: 21 Jul 1816 Montrose


Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: Br1gau on Sunday 30 June 13 22:16 BST (UK)
Good find!

I can't see Jane Anderson in 1841 - too many to choose from, but as James Taylor is recorded on his marriage cert as a Draper from Perth, this is the best fit I’ve found.

1841 Census, Parish 380 Methven, Perthshire
Methven West Half
Ann Taylor 66
Ann Taylor 35
Peter Taylor 33, Cotton Hand Loom Weaver
Louisa Taylor 25, Cotton Hand Loom Weaver
James Taylor   22, Tailor
All born Perthshire
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 23:06 BST (UK)
Can't be sure of course, but Br1gau amongst what you found earlier this looks like the best fit for Jane Duncan's baptism

Quote
Jean Duncan born 10 Mar 1788 Montrose, Angus.  Parents David Duncan & Margt Allan

Allan Anderson & Jane Duncan named their first daughter Margaret - I am assuming after her mother (which follows the traditional Scottish naming tradition - and his mother was Christina), and they named their first son James after his father (also following traditional Scottish naming tradition).

The date of the baptism also is closest to the age showing in the 1851 census.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 23:12 BST (UK)
Quote
1841 Census, Parish 380 Methven, Perthshire
Methven West Half
Ann Taylor 66
Ann Taylor 35
Peter Taylor 33, Cotton Hand Loom Weaver
Louisa Taylor 25, Cotton Hand Loom Weaver
James Taylor   22, Tailor
All born Perthshire

Unfortunately that is the wrong James Taylor. Wrong mother.

James Brand Taylor (name in his death registration)
From an earlier post:
Quote
Born: 9 August 1822 Montrose, Angus, Scotland
Parents: George TAYLOR & Jane BRAND
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 23:32 BST (UK)
Going back to an earlier post I made (on page 5 of this thread) there were documents of corresondence between Caleb Anderson in Castlemaine and Anna Anderson McKie in Singapore, Manila and Batavia.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NK436M5d3n4C&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=Caleb+Anderson+Castlemaine&source=bl&ots=_kutCBx-Pw&sig=UQUx4ShpBgHA7g67UKXJDrRL0ns&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FvzPUYKuC4GDlAWG4ICgDQ&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Caleb%20Anderson%20Castlemaine&f=false

I have just found that Anna Anderson married James Brand McKie. I thought Anna could be another sister but her husband was born in 1840 so she is too young to be a sister. Perhaps a cousin?
http://railwayroad.com/FamilyTree/Trees/individual.php?pid=I570&ged=Roz.ged

James Brand McKie is a cousin of James Brand Taylor (Jane Anderson's first husband). I'll do a separate post about this one.

Then there is the John Anderson who Caleb was corresponding with in NSW:
http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemdetailpaged.aspx?itemid=402508
A sibling? NOt enough information to tell.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Sunday 30 June 13 23:43 BST (UK)
Family of John Brand Taylor (this shows his parents and his siblings):
http://railwayroad.com/FamilyTree/Trees/individual.php?pid=I628&ged=Roz.ged&tab=0
(Much more by clicking around in the above web-page than what I have typed out below.)

Father: George Taylor (1790-)
Mother: Jane Brand (1795-1842)
Married 2 Oct 1814 Montrose
Their children christened at Montrose:
Maria Ann Taylor (1816 -)
George Taylor (1817 -)
Jane Taylor (1819 -
John Alexander Taylor (1820 - 1823)   
James Brand Taylor (1822 - 1850) & file shows his wife as Jeannie Taylor
Alexander Brand Taylor (1824 - 1863)   
Samuel Taylor (1826 - 1855)
Robert Taylor (1828 -)
William Henry Taylor (1830 - 1831)   
Margaret Brand Taylor (1832 -)
Charles Grey Taylor (1834 - 1836)   
Elizabeth Strachan Taylor (1837 - )

James Brand Taylor & James Brand McKie were 1st cousins - James Brand Taylor's mother had a younger sister Jessie who married David McKie. Jessie & David were the parents of James Brand McKie.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Monday 01 July 13 02:37 BST (UK)
Wow so much information. Will take me a long time to sieve through all this. Thank you everyone for your expertise and diligence.

I was going to email Nepean Historical Society last night. I had written the email but didn't send it as I wanted to re-read it with less tired eyes in the day light.

I have not deleted it and will start again. I hope I don't give them information overload.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Monday 01 July 13 03:22 BST (UK)
Could this be Jane and James Brand Taylor's arrival in Melborourne

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4774624

The Argus 11 Feb 1850

Shipping Intelligence
Arrived 
February .9 'Zemindar,' ship. 716, tons, G. Poole, commander, from Greenock, 1st November. Passengers. - Cabin, ........ Steerage, ........, J. B. Taylor, wife and family,.......,
Rae and Co. Agents.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Monday 01 July 13 03:38 BST (UK)
Ted, what a lucky find - I didn't think their arrival in the colony was going to show up.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: keinname on Monday 01 July 13 03:45 BST (UK)
Using Ted's clue of using initials I have found what looks like the arrival of Caleb in 1851 as detailed in his obituary:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/91917017
On "White Squall" on 4 June 1851.
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: rosball on Tuesday 02 July 13 09:46 BST (UK)
Perhaps Jane remarried a third time under her maiden name

ANDERSON Jane m. GILLESPIE John 1855 #612

Does anyone know where this John Gillespie came from?, or how long he'd been in Australia? EB

Sorry earlybird we skimmed over your post.  Perhaps you should start a separate topic giving all the info you have on your John Gillespie.

cheers,
   Ros
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Wednesday 03 July 13 00:55 BST (UK)
Thank you everyone for all your help and all the extra information about Jane and her family.

I have written a summary for Nepean Historical Society and they now want me to write it up in more detail with all the footnotes and original references. I am planning on doing that next week as I have some time off work at the moment.

I will of course be attributing it to you guys and Rootschat. I will only be using your usernames, but if you don't want to be mentioned please PM me so I won't include you.

Thanks again for your help. It was amazing what we all found.

Cheers, Ted
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: MeaganCatto on Saturday 25 April 15 15:16 BST (UK)
Glad it's been a success for you, Ted!   :D

I’ve now found the deaths of Peter GILLESPIE’s wife Arabella, and most of their children….

Arabella GILLESPIE aged 69 died in 1926 at IWOOD
Father = Wm HALL & Mother = Elizth Clare LAMBERT
Ref = 14306


John Lambert GILLESPIE aged 66 died in 1948 at IWOOD
Father = Peter GILLESPIE & Mother = Arabella HALL
Ref = 20955

Clare Kaye LONG aged 61 died in 1951 at N BTON
Father = Peter GILLESPIE & Mother = Arabella HALL
Ref = 4164

Hugh Rolston GILLESPIE aged 64 died in 1957 at MORN
Father = Peter & Mother = Arabella  HALL
Ref = 20185

Eleanor Florence CATTO died in 1983 at EMU
Father = Petir GILLESPIE & Mother = Arabella
Ref = 20766

Alan Ellis GILLISPIE aged 62 died in 1950 at MTON
Father = Peter & Mother = Arabella  HALL
Ref = 21401

Wouldn't it be great if a descendant got in touch! 


Dee   :)





Eleanor Florence CATTO - was my great grandmother.  finding this all very interesting. My Grandmother researched CATTO history extensively and wrote a book. i can now see why!
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: LizG56 on Sunday 20 September 15 07:41 BST (UK)
Perhaps Jane remarried a third time under her maiden name

ANDERSON Jane m. GILLESPIE John 1855 #612

Does anyone know where this John Gillespie came from?, or how long he'd been in Australia? EB

Sorry earlybird we skimmed over your post.  Perhaps you should start a separate topic giving all the info you have on your John Gillespie.

cheers,
   Ros

I know I'm a bit after the fact but I can supply plenty of information on John Gillespie if you are still interested.

Liz
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: tedscout on Tuesday 17 October 17 11:39 BST (UK)
I am so sorry I haven't answered every ones posts.

Yes Liz anything you have can be added to this post.

thank you for getting in touch

Cheers, Ted
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: LizG56 on Tuesday 17 October 17 23:54 BST (UK)
I have a lot of information on John Gillespie. My husband is G Grandson of the Peter and Arabella Gillespie named in a previous post. We're on holiday at the moment but we're back next week and I will respond with some details then. How much and what type of info do you want?

Liz
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: balliang on Friday 19 January 18 01:44 GMT (UK)
G'day All
I wonder if Liz is still about re her husbands Gillespie connection information?
I may have inadvertently started this thread with my research into the ship SEA and James MacKay, who married Jane Taylor in 1853 in Melbourne then got himself killed in the wreck of his ship the SEA a few days after his marriage to Jane. Jane then married John Gillespie.
I was wondering if any stories may have been handed down through the family re Janes marriage to MacKay, and any reasons why she was not on the SEA with her husband when it sailed for Callao in Peru, and was wrecked on Nepean Reef, Port Philip Bay on May 31st 1853?
Bob
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: LizG56 on Tuesday 23 January 18 06:17 GMT (UK)
Sorry, just catching up. Here is a potted version.

John Gillespie came to Australia from Scotland in 1852 on the Merlin. (His brother went to America.) He settled in Ephinstone Victoria married Jane Anderson in 1855. His father died in 1857 and he went back to Scotland and returned with his mother in 1862 on the Zoboah.

John and Jane had 3 children; Peter b:1856   Isabella b:1858 and John b:1860 (died the same year)

Jane Anderson died in 1867. John married Sarah Kaye Thompson in 1877.

John Gillespie died in Canada in 1894 aged 67. There's a story around why he was in Canada but I won't bore you with it. There is a Gillespie grave marker mentioning John, his brother Peter, his father John and their mother Jane Gillespie (buried in Bendigo cemetery Victoria) in a cemetery in Maitland Ontario.

Any other specific info anyone would like?
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: balliang on Saturday 27 January 18 00:57 GMT (UK)
G'day and thanks Liz.
My main interest in Gillespie is that Jane married John after the death of James MacKay, captain of the ship SEA. I am writing a book about the SEA. James left the SEA anchored off Shortlands Bluff [Queenscliff], went to Melbourne with Jane, I believe, but returned to the SEA about 6 days later. Not sober and without Jane, he ordered the SEA to be made ready to sail, stating only that 'he would show them what the SEA could do'! Later that evening the SEA was totally wrecked on Nepean Reef at the 'Heads' of Port Philip Bay, killing himself and seventeen other hands.
Why was Jane not with James when he returned to the SEA?
Have any stories been handed down through the Gillespie family about Jane and James?

There is a lot more to be told about the Sea and those involved with her while she was in Melbourne in 1853, and the James/Jane story will assist make it an even more interesting story!
I wonder if there are family stories that have survived the years?

any assistance will be appreciated.

cheers...........Bob
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: LizG56 on Saturday 27 January 18 04:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Bob,

There have been no stories about James MacKay of which I am aware. In a book I have of family histories in the area it tells me that "Jane Anderson was a widow when she married John. Her name had previously been Taylor and she was a partner in a firm called Anderson, Taylor and Company."

I will search the book for any information on James MacKay. I'll check with other family members for you too.

Liz
Title: Re: This is a treasure hunt - "Help me find Jane?"
Post by: balliang on Tuesday 20 February 18 00:45 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Liz for all your information. Will await any further info.
Cheers.....Bob