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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: TreeDigger on Tuesday 30 July 13 17:43 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
After re-registering for the 3rd time (I know, clumsy, etc) I am going to have another try at this great-grandfather mystery which has haunted me for over 15 years now!
George Haycock
DOB 24 december 1962 Wolverhampton (as per RN service records)
DOD January 1942 Liverpool
1871 census W'hampton with father John Haycock (blacksmith, widower)
1881 census aboard HMS Carysfort
1891 census aboard HMS Eagle, wife Frances (Prince) in Liverpool
1901 census with wife in Liverpool
I recently found his Merchant Navy records and discovered his mother's first name, Maria. However, still no mention of her surname which, according to an aging relative, was either Whitehouse or Whitehead. Have scoured scores of websites, records, etc (you can find me all over the internet) but alas, no sign of either George's official birth papers or his mother's name.
As father John Haycock (Heycock on marriage certificate) is a widower both in 1861 (after wife Susan Dixon/Dickson's death in 1860) and 1871 and I have not been able to find a 2nd marriage for the man, I assume (dangerous, but still) that George was the result of a "fling".
Father John himself is still as elusive as his son, meaning that I haven't found any official records with regard to his birth (1806-1816 in Oswestry) either. His father and grandfather are almost 100% positive but no mother for him either.
So, if anybody is willing and able to help me out yet again, I would really appreciate finally solving this puzzle which has done absolutely nothing towards keeping my sanity. What little I have left ;D
regards, TD (Saskia, Kya)
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Could it be
Marriage
Jul/Aug/sep 1865
Wolverhampton ref 6b 679
John Haycock / one of brides on same page MaryAnn Whitgrove
(Ageing rellie may confuse Whitgrove with Whitehead/Whitehouse?)
I was wondering if he may be Mary(ia)'s son from a previous ,marriage that John took on.
But cant see a birth for George under Whitgrove either, so that theory is fallong apart
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Hi lizdb :D
Thank you for that very prompt answer!
A/ Why have I never seen that?!
B/ It really really REALLY sounds like it might be a hit! I will have to try and suss out more details on her, see whether either the name George pops up in her family or some of George's children's names ring a bell.
On George's service records his parents' names are written with a letter inbetween, and I can't for the life of me decide whether it's an 'm' or a 'u' or even something else. Mind having a go?
Kind regards, TD
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I would say 'M'.
Can't yet find a suitable death for Mary[Maria] Ha[e]ycock 1865 - 1871.
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Argh! Too bad ...
That record is for George's brother John (Thomas) Haycock's marriage to Emily Buckley *snif*
Just found my own note attached to it :'(
And thanks for looking at the image josey ;)
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If we are to consider George's birth,all things being equal,a birth on 24th of December 1862 is highly likely to have been registered in the Jan/Feb/Mar quarter of 1863.
Regards
William Russell Jones
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Yes
But can we find it .............?
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FreeBMD has a birth of a George Whitehouse in 1st qtr 1863 6b 440 in Wolverhampton ?
Kay
Edit - but the 1871 census lists him possibly still with the Whitehouse surname
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There is only one for a George Haycock for that quarter registered in the Clun District of Shropshire.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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FreeBMD has a birth of a George Whitehouse in 1st qtr 1863 6b 440 in Wolverhampton ?
Kay
That would work, if either the birth or marriage was misindexed.
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It's a shame that http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/ doesn't cover Wolverhampton - these may have been independently transcribed. Don't ancestry's indexes come from freebmd? Are they all from the GRO index pages rather than the original source registers.
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FreeBMD has a birth of a George Whitehouse in 1st qtr 1863 6b 440 in Wolverhampton ?
Kay
That would work, if either the birth or marriage was misindexed.
I edited my post as I think he could still listed as Whitehouse in 1871 with another family however there is another George Whitehouse born in Dec Qtr 1863 Wolverhampton so maybe
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Hi all,
A HUGE thanks for helping me out on this! It would be so great if we could solve this ...
George's birth is a "definite" 24 December 1862. It appears on all of his service records. And on his death certificate (18 January 1942) it states his age at death is 79. He would've turned 80 that December. In my opinion there shouldn't be any doubts with regard to his DOB. Seeing how his DOB is close to (or on X-mas) it would not surprise me if it wasn't registered until the New Year, so 1st quarter 1863. Therefor any George Whitehouse or George Whitehead from that period is "suspicious' :-)
In the 1871 census he is listed as Haycock with his father and siblings. I have no idea what the legal track is with regard to acknowledging children "born out of wedlock" or resulting from short relationships, but it seems as if John at least had son George registered as an "official" child by the time he was 8. A hypothesis was thrown up that he might have been the child of one of his 'siblings' but I have no idea how to go about finding that out as well. Living across the canal is somewhat frustrating at time ...
TD
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We so need a birth cert for him!
Have you looked for a christening?
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There are deaths in Wolverhampton for Maria Whitehouses in both Ap/May/jun 1863 and Oct/Nov/Dec 1864
Either (or neither) could be her
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I did look for a christening on all of the free sites, and on the Wolverhampton parishes site as well. Both for George Haycock and George Whitehouse/Whitehead.
Naturally I might have overlooked something, one does have the tendency of becoming "blind" when staring at something for too long ...
I'll have a look again though, right after I've had my coffee ;)
What really gets to me is that it seems as if I'm the only one researching this particular family! George had at least 3 brothers and 1 sister, all of whom had issue. Yet I haven't found any of their descendents over the past years! The only relatives that ever responded to my searches were children of my grandfather's brother, as well as a few very distant cousins on my grandmother's side.
That would almost seem to indicate that the name Haycock may have ended up being spelled differently for some of the family ...
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That would almost seem to indicate that the name Haycock may have ended up being spelled differently for some of the family ...
It can indicate that [amazingly] no one from the other siblings' descendants ever caught the family history bug ;D
I looked for baptisms on the free sites as well with no success.
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Could it be
Marriage
Jul/Aug/sep 1865
Wolverhampton ref 6b 679
John Haycock / one of brides on same page Mary Ann Whitgrove
Sorry to say I think this marriage can be ruled out :(
Other male name on that marriage was a Thomas Biddle – John Haycock must have married Emily Buckley other female name on same page
Mary Ann Whitgrove Jan-Feb-Mar 1844 West Bromwich Volume: 18 Page: 612
Mary Ann Biddle [Mary Ann Whitgrove] Birth Date: 16 Feb 1844
Death Date: 10 Nov 1931 Chicago, Cook, Illinois Burial Date:12 Nov 1931
Burial Place: Joliet, Will, IL Cemetery Name: Joliet Oakwoods
Residence: Chicago, Cook, IL
Father Name: John T. Whitgrove Mother Name: Mary Grove
Spouse Name: Thomas Biddle
There is this death entry for a Mary A Haycock but not in Wolverhampton
Haycock Mary A 19 (b1847) Newport, Sh. Sep 1866 vol 6a Page 459
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It can indicate that [amazingly] no one from the other siblings' descendants ever caught the family history bug ;D
That's ... that's ... INCONCEIVABLE! But likely to be true, alas :-\
I looked for baptisms on the free sites as well with no success.
Just went through the indexes again checking for baptisms of a George for Dec 1862 and Jan 1862. Nothing. I'll go back through them checking for all Georges after Dec 1862.
Could it be that either his birth wasn't registered, or he wasn't baptised? I know a lot of my Dutch family wasn't baptised, as it did cost money and/or people were simply too busy making a living.
TD
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Hi Ladyhawk,
Thank you for jumping in ;)
The marriage for John Haycock and Emily Buckley is, in fact, that of George's older half-brother John Thomas (born Dixon ca 1843). He lived at St. John's Square and then Art Street.
It is unbelievable how impossible it is to find George. Same goes for his father John. I don't know his mother's name either. The few relatives that I did manage to find who knew a little about the family were unable to fill me in on the missing details, so it's all up to me.
TD
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As father John Haycock (Heycock on marriage certificate) is a widower both in 1861 (after wife Susan Dixon/Dickson's death in 1860) and 1871
Hi TD:
I've been reading your post with interest and have been doing a bit of looking around. Where is the John Haycock family (Sophia, Joseph, Frederick) in 1861?
sami
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This is the census reference-RG09/1990/89/31.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi TD:
I've been reading your post with interest and have been doing a bit of looking around. Where is the John Haycock family (Sophia, Joseph, Frederick) in 1861?
sami
Hi Sami :)
The family is transcribed as Acock in 1861 and living at Sweetman St W'hampton.
removed this, not sure about copyright etc
Threw me off for a while as well :-\
TD
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This is the census reference-RG09/1990/89/31.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
Thank you for thinking along as well ;D
Hopefully we'll finally be able to crack this, it's been driving me bonkers for years!
TD
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thank you both William and TD - no wonder I couldn't find them ;D
I'm really wondering if George is John Jr's son.
sami
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Sami,
I have been thinking about that possibility as well. John having been born in 1843 could easily be George's father in 1863. He marries Emily Buckley in 1865, so that would mean George isn't Emily's son. Also, his papers state his mother's name is Maria. However, I have no idea how to proof this :-\
I thought it might be important to look at the names of George's children, as -hopefully - it was customary in England to name children for their grandparents as they did in The Netherlands. Here are the names:
Sarah
Florence E
George
Joseph
John Walter (my grandfather)
Edith May
Dorothy Alice
William F
It proved that my hunch was not really valid, as George's mother Maria doesn't seem to appear anywhere, and neither does his mother-in-law's name Ann (Threlfall/Stanton
I still need to further investigate the name William as all 4 brothers Haycock name a son William. Or maybe that was just the trend of the time, who knows.
TD
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I have been thinking about that possibility as well. John having been born in 1843 could easily be George's father in 1863. He marries Emily Buckley in 1865, so that would mean George isn't Emily's son. Also, his papers state his mother's name is Maria. However, I have no idea how to proof this :-\
Hi TD:
Another line of thought for me is that Maria is not necessarily his mother's first name. There is the death of an Anne Maria Whitehouse in Wolverhampton registered in the Dec quarter of 1862 (6B 324).
sami
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Hi Sami,
That of course would be very interesting, if we could nail down that George was indeed born a Whitehouse and her son.
This family is shrouded in so many mysteries! Like the story that father John invented a "breech loading device" and was cheated out of the patent for the thing. Seem to have been numerous court cases but I can't find any of them. I did hear from a full cousin of my father that "Grandpa George" remembered "men on horsebacks coming to drag the gun away" (must have been a cannon of sorts).
Anyway, as I said, I have tackled these mysteries numerous times over the years and although some bits and pieces have surfaced there are still many riddles to solve. Good think I like puzzles *grin*
TD
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Another line of thought for me is that Maria is not necessarily his mother's first name. There is the death of an Anne Maria Whitehouse in Wolverhampton registered in the Dec quarter of 1862 (6B 324).
We can add this to the list of possibilities from reply #14
This problem seems to have lots of theories, one or none of which might be the right scenario. And I think we could go round in the same circles for ever.
Without a birth cert, or a marriage cert, it is all just theory.
If money is no object, you could order the death certs of the 3 Maria Whitehouses we have found. Then they can be ruled out - unless one happens to have been registered by a Mr Haycock, or tnhe address matches that on tbe census, or something else that links it in.
But I have tnhe feeling that unless fairly drastic measures like that are taken, then we will just keep coming up with all sorts of vaguely possible theories, but never progress.
I did hope John would have left a will, and then maybe reffered to George in it, but no luck there either!
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Hi lizdb,
Well, to be truthful, money unfortunately is a problem :-\ In the sense that I can only afford to order those records which will definitely contribute to building 'The Tree', and then only once in a while.
However, what I can do is try and get in touch with some of the relatives on the Haycock side and see whether they might have obtained new information, or remembered things. It is indeed like running around in cirkels, which I have been doing for a fairly long time now *sigh*
None of the Haycocks seem to have left a will, possibly because their status wasn't very high on the social scale. George was a blacksmith, so was his dad, and his grandfather (if I have found the correct one) was a gardener. And none of them seem to have left any tracks.
I did find a John Haycock from Wolverhampton in the Calendars of Criminals at Quarter Sessions (Staffordshire Names Indexes) in the years 1830, 1835 and 1840 but I'm not sure if this concerns the father, the son John Thomas or even somebody totally unrelated. So ordering a copy there is quite a gamble as well.
I might have to rethink this whole thing or try a different route to get any results. Maybe:
* search for a will left by George's wife Frances (Prince; death reg. Sept 1950)
* search for a will left by George's grandfather John Heycock (reg. June 1858)
* search for a will left by any of the other siblings
George's own death certificate did not state the name of his parents, and his marriage certificate only mentioned his father.
TD
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I did look for a christening on all of the free sites, and on the Wolverhampton parishes site as well. Both for George Haycock and George Whitehouse/Whitehead.
Naturally I might have overlooked something
Is this one of the sites you have looked at ?
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
didn’t come across a baptisms for George Haycock/Whitehouse/Whitehead b1863 ??? or Thomas (John) b1843
From the info. John & Susan baptized their children at St Mary's Wolverhampton and they married there too - you probably have all the details below but you never know......
Marriage St Mary 28 Jan 1850
John HEYCOCK f/a Smith Stafford Street F John Heycock Gardener Susan DICKSON
Sophia HAYCOCK d of John & Susan 17 Nov 1850 Stafford Street Whitesmith
Sophia Haycock Dec 1850 Wolverhampton (FreeBMD)
Alfred HEYCOCK s of John & Susan 25 Jul 1852 Stafford Street Whitesmith
Alfred Haycock Sep 1852 Wolverhampton
Alfred Haycock Sep 1852 Wolverhampton (death) (FreeBMD)
Solomon HEYCOCK s of John & Susan 30 Nov 1853 Falkland Street Blacksmith
Samuel Solomon Haycock Oct 1853 Wolverhampton
Samuel Solomon Haycock Dec 1853 Wolverhampton (death) (FreeBMD)
Frederick HAYCOCK s of John & Susan 5 Aug 1857 Falkland Street Blacksmith
Frederick HAYCOCKS Sep 1857 Wolverhampton FreeBMD)
Joseph HAYCOCK s of John & Susan 26 Dec 1858 Falkland Street Blacksmith
(FreeBMD has a birth entry Dec 1855 Wolverhampton Joseph Haycock perhaps he as baptized at a later date) ???
This looks to be the marriage of son Joseph although his year of birth differs from baptism date
St Mary Wolverhampton 24 May 1874
Joseph HAYCOCK 21 bach. Blacksmith North Road John Haycock Blacksmith Fanny WALTON
1881c Joseph & Fanny HAYCOCK living 100 North Street, occ Blacksmith with children
for info. here's one of John & Emily's children baptized St John’s Wolverhampton
Susan Florence HAYCOCKS dau.of John & Emma 13 Apr 1868 Drayton Street Blacksmith
Susan Florence Haycock Mar 1868 Wolverhampton (FreeBMD)
If your George’s birth was registered is it possible his pob is not Wolverhampton and he was born elsewhere in Staffordshire or maybe some else ???
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Hi Ladyhawk :)
Is this one of the sites you have looked at ?
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
Indeed it is.
didn’t come across a baptisms for George Haycock/Whitehouse/Whitehead b1863 ??? or Thomas (John) b1843
I didn't find anything for George either, but I found John via FreeReg, baptism 05 March 1843 under the name of Dixon as well as 2 other siblings - besides the ones that you mentioned and I found as well - named Edwin (Dixon) on 30 May 1851 and Mary (Dixon) on 14 June 1847. Edwin and Mary died, as did Alfred and Samuel Solomon. The last child of this union was stillborn in 1860 and presumably caused the death of Susan Dixon as well in February 1860.
From the info. John & Susan baptized their children at St Mary's Wolverhampton and they married there too - you probably have all the details below but you never know......
Thank you for the effort but yes, I already had this information ;)
Joseph HAYCOCK s of John & Susan 26 Dec 1858 Falkland Street Blacksmith
(FreeBMD has a birth entry Dec 1855 Wolverhampton Joseph Haycock perhaps he was baptized at a later date) ???
I agree with the later baptism as indeed his age when marrying was 21. Unless they lied, of course ;)
If your George’s birth was registered is it possible his pob is not Wolverhampton and he was born elsewhere in Staffordshire or maybe some else ???
That would of course be a valid hypothesis, if it wasn't for the fact that he states in every official paper that his pob is Wolverhampton :-\ And then I would have to start searching for father John traveling out of the city to ... where?!
I have tried a long shot and sent an email to a distant relative, begging for more information. Not sure if they'll respond but I do hope for some positive reaction. Who knows ...
TD
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I didn't find anything for George either, but I found John via FreeReg, baptism 05 March 1843 under the name of Dixon as well as 2 other siblings - besides the ones that you mentioned and I found as well - named Edwin (Dixon) on 30 May 1851 and Mary (Dixon) on 14 June 1847. Edwin and Mary died, as did Alfred and Samuel Solomon. The last child of this union was stillborn in 1860 and presumably caused the death of Susan Dixon as well in February 1860.
Susannah buried 26.2.1860 Merridale Cemetery cuase of death given as 'Mortification of the throat'
Willow x
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Well Hi There, Willow ;D
Dancing along again, I see. Thank you so much ;)
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Still here ;D
As he gives his date of birth as 24.12.1862 I decided to check all the Georges born dec 1862/mar 1863 Wolverhampton birth registrations against FreeREG to see if I could match a baptism (I didnt find any with mothers called Maria). So far the only one I havent found (ignoring the ones with middle names please feel free to see if you can find any of them)
1862
George Harper
George Probert
George Stevenson
George Stokes
George Venables
George Wilkes
1863
George Bott
George Hardwick
George Hewitt
George Lavender
George Lesson
George Mason
George Monger
George Mease
George Monk
George Neal
George Platt
George Sankey
George Tiley
George Vaughan
George Wedge
George White
George Whittingham
And I get to the bottom of the list and there is a George Whitehouse! my granddad was born the 19th of December but wasnt registered until the January of the next year. If its going to be anyone its this one
Willow x
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That's a lot of effort!
And to start with that last - hopeful! - entry ...
1891 census - George Whitehouse, 29, cycle fitter, living with family at 62 Oxford St. W'hampton.
Not him :'( Even though the professions of both father (blacksmith) and sons (cycle fitters) correspond to thoseof the Haycocks.
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Bum! :(
Saying that I have just noticed that there is also a baptism 4.10.1863 at St Marks parents John and Senca? he's a manufacturer but cant find George or this couple on the census
Willow x
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Updates (from the 1871 census)
George Harper – still looking several candidates
George Probert – in Lancashire with his parents
George Stevenson – no sign but might be an alternative spelling
George Stokes – no sign
George Venables – with parents
George Wilkes – might be with parents year of birth given as 1864
George Bott – died later that year
George Hardwick – may have died 1864
George Hewitt – may have died 1864
George Lavender – died 1863
George Lesson – no sign
George Mason – probably the one with parents Edward and Mary
George Monger – with parents (mothers name is Maria but he died 1924 Wolverhampton)
George Mease – with parents spelt Meese
George Monk – with mother and grandmother
George Neal – with parents
George Platt – with parents
George Sankey – with mother Catherine
George Titley – died 1863
George Vaughan – died 1863
George Wedge – with parents
George White – cannot definitely say which one it is
George Whittingham – found on the 1881 census
Willow x
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Hey Willow ;D
Sorry I couldn't cue you in sooner, we had several b-days this past week. George is actually listed as an 8-year old scholar living with father John at 18 Sweetman Str. during the 1871 census. So I'm sorry to say that all this work you're doing is for naught :-\
What still miffs me is the fact that on his merchant navy service papers it says that his parents are married. If they were, why can't we find the proof?! Unless George fibbed, but I'm not sure that was possible on these types of papers.
TD
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Bum! :(
Saying that I have just noticed that there is also a baptism 4.10.1863 at St Marks parents John and Senca? he's a manufacturer but cant find George or this couple on the census
Willow x
So this might be his baptism and Maria is spelt wrong?
Willow x
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Ignore that I found the couple in a later census
Willow x
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Ugh ... those Haycocks >:(
I just spoke with the General Registrars Office to try and find out where my father died. My uncle called in December 2011 but as the whole family had a falling out with each other, he couldn't even tell me where and when he died exactly. Just November 2011. Not registered in Hounslow (where he used to live) so possibly taken into care by his sister who - take a wild guess - doesn't even want to talk to me. Me being the "little skeleton in the closet" and all that *wicked grin*
Anyways, I now have to place an order to get his exact DoD. Pfff ... and people call me difficult! :P
I am going to try and harass some other family members to see whether they can help steer us in the right direction. After all those years I am not giving up on George!
TD
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I dont blame you! I just wonder why he wasnt registered ???
I did wonder if he was a child of Sophia's and brought up as her brother but she would have only been 13 at the time
Willow x
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I don't get it either. I mean, assuming (dangerous but still) that he didn't lie on his papers, then he was born in W'hampton on 24 december 1862. And on those service records it clearly states the name of his mother, Maria.
Add all that together and one should be able to find something ...
TD
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Exactly!
Willow x
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You also said you were looking for John's baptism
2.9.1810 John Haycock son of John Haycock labourer of Willow Street Oswestry and his wife Margaret baptised born 1.8.1810 (Book III)
http://www.melocki.org.uk/MelockiSalop.html
Willow x
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If this is the right John his brother William is living in Bilston in 1851
HO107/2021/9/11
and another brother James is still alive in 1851 too
HO107/1988/25/17
Willow x
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I think I found that baptism for John in 1810 as well and discountee it for some reason ... just can't for the life of me remember why :-\
And in 2010 (yes, we were dancing back then already) you presented a half-brother for George named William. I grappled with him a little yesterday and think that we can strike him off the record as well. Can't find a baptism for him, but he married Eliza and then Sarah Ann, and I found them in the 1881 census with the mention that William was born in Sallop around 1847. And at that time father John was living in W'hampton ... too bad, he nicely fit the picture.
I see now why I thought John from 1810 wasn't the right John ... we also had established that John from Oswestry was the son of John Heycock or Heacock from Wheaton Aston. And that John was born 1781, so he could never be the John who fathered more children before John 1810 in Oswestry. Or so I gathered from the link you provided ...
Every corner we turn there's another wall!
TD
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I think you are looking at the wrong William
John and Margaret had the following children baptised in Oswestry
Mary b 12.8.1798 bap 27.1.1799
Sarah b 1.1.1800 bap 16.2.1800
Thomas b 19.1.1802 bap 7.2.1802 bur 21.2.1803
James b 18.4.1803 bap 14.8.1803 (on 1851 census in Oswestry)
William b 1.3.1805 bap 31.3.1805 (on 1851 census in Bilston)
Elizabeth b 14.9.1808 bap 30.10.1808 (Margaret put as Mary but might be an error) bur 12.8.1809
John b 1.8.1810 bap 2.9.1810
There is also a Thomas and Mary Haycock and an Edward and Mary Haycock living in Oswestry but neither has a son called John baptised there
Actually the John born 1781 could be his father he would be 18 when Mary was born
Willow x
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There is a marriage for John Haycock and Margaret Jones 31.12.1797 at St Marys Shrewsbury that might be this couple (Mary being born August just about fits ;D might have involved a shotgun somewhere at the ceremony)
Willow x
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Hm, I might indeed have discounted things too quickly ...
Now if only a link between all of these individuals could be found, whether it be names or professions, addresses, etc. Have any Alfred's, Samuel's or Solomon's popped up there?
I was going to try and find the marriage but see that you've already found it ::)
TD
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Both James and William dont seem to have kids with those names
I have just noticed his father John b 1781 is also in Wolverhampton
William might have married a Sarah Stretton 17.8.1829 St Peters Wolverhampton (FreeREG) but frustratingly it doesnt name his father
John junior may have been married to an Alice Moseley 31.3.1830 St Peters - have we mentioned this?
And John senior married Sarah Woodward 10.11.1839 St Peters father named as Thomas
3 years we have been doing this? pop the bubbly maybe we can crack it ;D
Willow x
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I have just noticed his father John b 1781 is also in Wolverhampton
Yup, he's definitely the 'labouring gardner' aged 70 in the 1851 census at Steelhouse Lane, born Wheaton Aston. Something the two of us pieced together a while ago ;) However, there's a 2nd John Haycock born Wheaton Aston, aged 70 in the 1871 census. Too bad I don't have all the data anymore so I can't see who else is in the household and where they live. John the gardner was buried on 25-04-1858 at Merridale cemetery. Age and address seem correct.
John junior may have been married to an Alice Moseley 31.3.1830 St Peters - have we mentioned this?
We did and we discounted that as well. John was a bachelor when he married Susan Dixon in 1850.
And John senior married Sarah Woodward 10.11.1839 St Peters father named as Thomas
Sarah was a widow as her father is mr Carter. We've tried piecing together John sr's father Thomas and family as well (think the topic was Heacock) but nothing definitive I think. I'll have another look at it. I wonder who that other John from Wheaton Aston might be. A cousin?
3 years we have been doing this? pop the bubbly maybe we can crack it ;D
Three years between you and me, almost 10 on several genealogical fora for me. Any message on the net regarding the Wolverhampton Haycocks, by whatever nom de plume I decided to use at the time, is mine. And it goes back to 2004 ... :-\
So yeah, if we do manage to crack the egg this time around it definitely deserves a toast!
TD
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I cant find any trace of the Alice that married a John Haycock I wonder if they moved out of the area and she died before the census
The John Haycock born 1799/1800 Wheaton Aston was living in Derbyshire
Willow x
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Have you seen the baptism on Familysearch for John Heacock 30.12.1781 at Lapley parents Thomas and Elizabeth?
Willow x
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Have you seen the baptism on Familysearch for John Heacock 30.12.1781 at Lapley parents Thomas and Elizabeth?
Yesss ... as well as that for brother Thomas in 1778 and sister Mary in 1775. Thomas was interred on 27 Jun 1832 at Lapley, haven't found where Mary went yet. The Elizabeth still alive in 1841 in Wheaton Aston was brother Thomas' wife, I think John was the only one ending up in Wolverhampton. Via Oswestry.
What was he doing there?! A gardener ... maybe he had some special skills? A bricklayer's son who becomes a gardener and then has a blacksmith for a son ... oww, the professions of the other - hypothetical - brothers for John jr, are there any blacksmiths among them?
TD
[/quote]
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James was a miner 1841 & 1851
William was a master boiler maker emplyong 6 men and 3 boys in 1851 (two of his daughters were born in Belgium)
Willow x
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Belgium ... Netherlands ... the plot thickens! Were the Haycocks planning an invasion?! ;D
Of course all professions having to do with metal were more region than family oriented. I mean, the Black Country ... still wondernig what type of man John sr must've been to so radically turn away from all the soot and metal, instead doing his flowery stuff. ::)
Now, how can we look at this from another view point and try to make things connect?
TD
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It might be that John snr just decided to take things a bit easier my one gggGranddad was a gardener after working in the steelworks
William (if it is his son) ended up in Bilston down the road from Wolverhampton
Willow x
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Uh-oh ...
HAYCOCK John 60years 24 Feb 1876 Great Hampton Street St.Andrew Blacksmith 5825 G3/18552
HAYCOCK Sarah Ann 1month 11 May 1876 Great Hampton Street St.Andrew Daughter of John Blacksmith 10033a G3/18852
If this John is my John - dying at age 60 does indicate a birth year of 1816 - then obviously Sarah Ann must be his daughter. And if that's the case, who and where is his wife? Great Hampton St is in the vincinity of Sweetman Str, his last known abode in the 1871 census, so that could work. Yet in the same 1871 census his age is given as 65 ...
Unfortunately I can't find a baptism for Sarah Ann, the W'hampton index stops at 1875. And FreeBMD doesn't give the name of the parents :(
TD
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John has never been very consistant with how old he was so that is more than likely him
Pity we dont know which number in Great Hampton Street it was so we could have a look on the 1881 census
If you put in RG11/2798/91/11 it will bring up the street
Willow x
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I have seen a couple of my ancestors service records and although the day and month of their birth was correct, I have the birth certificates, the year was out by one, and I have wondered if they or the person filling in the form had difficulty with the math since their didn't appear to be a reason for lying. Therefore George could have been born Dec 1863 .
Liz
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Hi Ladyhawk :)
Is this one of the sites you have looked at ?
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
Indeed it is.
didn’t come across a baptisms for George Haycock/Whitehouse/Whitehead b1863 ??? or Thomas (John) b1843
I didn't find anything for George either, but I found John via FreeReg, baptism 05 March 1843 under the name of Dixon as well as 2 other siblings - besides the ones that you mentioned and I found as well - named Edwin (Dixon) on 30 May 1851 and Mary (Dixon) on 14 June 1847. Edwin and Mary died, as did Alfred and Samuel Solomon. The last child of this union was stillborn in 1860 and presumably caused the death of Susan Dixon as well in February 1860.
From the info. John & Susan baptized their children at St Mary's Wolverhampton and they married there too - you probably have all the details below but you never know......
Thank you for the effort but yes, I already had this information ;)
Joseph HAYCOCK s of John & Susan 26 Dec 1858 Falkland Street Blacksmith
(FreeBMD has a birth entry Dec 1855 Wolverhampton Joseph Haycock perhaps he was baptized at a later date) ???
I agree with the later baptism as indeed his age when marrying was 21. Unless they lied, of course ;)
If your George’s birth was registered is it possible his pob is not Wolverhampton and he was born elsewhere in Staffordshire or maybe some else ???
That would of course be a valid hypothesis, if it wasn't for the fact that he states in every official paper that his pob is Wolverhampton :-\ And then I would have to start searching for father John traveling out of the city to ... where?!
I have tried a long shot and sent an email to a distant relative, begging for more information. Not sure if they'll respond but I do hope for some positive reaction. Who knows ...
Hi just been having a look to see if I could find more info on my Great Grandfather George Haycock, and I came across your posts. My Great Grandad was born in Wolverhampton 1895 and died in Manchester 1956. I have gone back as far as 1770 to Joseph Haycock from Hinckley Lecic, he was married to Elizabeth Hubbard. Does any of my info help you?
TD
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Hi Ladyhawk :)
Is this one of the sites you have looked at ?
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes
Indeed it is.
didn’t come across a baptisms for George Haycock/Whitehouse/Whitehead b1863 ??? or Thomas (John) b1843
I didn't find anything for George either, but I found John via FreeReg, baptism 05 March 1843 under the name of Dixon as well as 2 other siblings - besides the ones that you mentioned and I found as well - named Edwin (Dixon) on 30 May 1851 and Mary (Dixon) on 14 June 1847. Edwin and Mary died, as did Alfred and Samuel Solomon. The last child of this union was stillborn in 1860 and presumably caused the death of Susan Dixon as well in February 1860.
From the info. John & Susan baptized their children at St Mary's Wolverhampton and they married there too - you probably have all the details below but you never know......
Thank you for the effort but yes, I already had this information ;)
Joseph HAYCOCK s of John & Susan 26 Dec 1858 Falkland Street Blacksmith
(FreeBMD has a birth entry Dec 1855 Wolverhampton Joseph Haycock perhaps he was baptized at a later date) ???
I agree with the later baptism as indeed his age when marrying was 21. Unless they lied, of course ;)
If your George’s birth was registered is it possible his pob is not Wolverhampton and he was born elsewhere in Staffordshire or maybe some else ???
That would of course be a valid hypothesis, if it wasn't for the fact that he states in every official paper that his pob is Wolverhampton :-\ And then I would have to start searching for father John traveling out of the city to ... where?!
I have tried a long shot and sent an email to a distant relative, begging for more information. Not sure if they'll respond but I do hope for some positive reaction. Who knows ...
Hi just been having a look to see if I could find more info on my Great Grandfather George Haycock, and I came across your posts. My Great Grandad was born in Wolverhampton 1895 and died in Manchester 1956. I have gone back as far as 1770 to Joseph Haycock from Hinckley Lecic, he was married to Elizabeth Hubbard. Does any of my info help you?
TD
I have relatives called John Haycock.. 1812, 1841, 1867 and 1922