RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Orkney => Topic started by: Jason46 on Thursday 22 August 13 01:08 BST (UK)
-
I have a note written by my great grandfather's daughter stating that he arrived in Australia on the Stebonheath on 24 December 1854 but I cannot find him on the passenger's list. He had previously worked as a ship's carpenter on the Llanely - Quebec run and I am assuming he was working on this ship. How can I find out if he was employed on this ship? His wife, Jane (or Jean) Flett was supposed to have come to Melbourne on the White Swan, possibly 30 September 1860, but I can't find her either. Any assistance greatly appreciated!
-
Hi Jason
I can see on a transcription for the manifest that you mention a John Plette - could this be a mistranscription of Flett? I would bet on a yes ;)
He shows as aged 29.
No more info than that, on the index I am looking at. Also, can't see anything for wife Mary so far...
Monica :)
-
Thank you very much for that. Can you give me the name of the site that you saw this on. Also, his wife was Jean or Jane, noty Mary. Her maiden name was Smith and she supposedly came out with a brother, which could have been James, John or Simon but no name suppled.
-
I saw the entry for John Flett 1854 on a/try's Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists There is no original image, just an indexed entry.
:P Sorry about the ref to a Mary.
From same source, can't see an entry for the crossing of a ship called 'White Star' in 1860 unfortunately.
Monica
-
There is also a John FLETT, Crew, age 27, Carp*, of Stromness on the "Herald" from London, arriving Sydney NSW 27 Aug 1856
(Source Anc.)
-
Did John/Jean Marry 25 May 1854, Harray Church, Harray, , Orkney Isles?
(Source FreeREG)
So she would have been a Flett not Smith on Passenger List?
So in 1851 in Harray, Orkney we have;
Magnus SMITH, 57, Farmer
Margaret, 55
Magnus, 34
Elizabeth, 18
SIMON, 16
Robert, 13
Emelia, 10
1841 Jane is with them age 10.
-
That seems to be so Trish. A summary here www.kempfamilyhistory.com/familygroup.php?familyID=F10323&tree=adkemp
Monica
-
This link www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Jean_Smith_%2821%29 shows:
Jane was an unassisted immigrant on the Black Swan, in Jan 1861, at 35 yo. She was registered as Mrs Flett, and travelled with her 20 yo brother in law, James, who was a goldminer who returned to Orkneys later
A little discrepancy on dates etc. is that one son John shows as born on 11 Dec 1860 (death on 6 Jan 1861) Williamstown, Victoria
Monica
Added: there is an entry on the 'Black Swan' arriving at Port Phillip Bay, Australia on 5 January 1861. On board, as transcribed by a/try, is a Mrs Pilett, age 35 etc. Again, it is an indexed entry so original not available here to view to decipher better.
-
Thanks for that Monica.
Lots of Flett info on FreeREG that I had been looking at.
Trish :)
-
Tha nk you Monica and Trish!
They did come from the Orkneys and she did come out with her brother - according to Family mythology - and he was a successful miner as he went back to Harray in the Orkneys and bought a place which he renamed 'Ballarat', after a gold-mining town in Victoria. I have also been told that the White Swan was lengthened and became the 'Black Swan' which would mean that the information on Jean is VERY INTERESTING! John and Jean married in the Orkneys and their first 3 children were all John - the first 2 died very young.
-
Are very interesting as my G/G/Grandfather who came from Morpeth, Northumberland was a Blacksmith in Ballarat and other mining areas in Victoria from 1857 onwards.
( 1869 he married and went to NZ)
It is not unlikely our Ancestors had contact with one another given my G/G/Grandfathers profession :)
-
Hi Monica
I went into the Public Records of Victoria and found the indexed entry for John Flett's arrival - spelt Flette, on the Stebonheath, and Mrs. Flett's arrival with her brother, but I couldn't find to John Plette or Mrs. Pilett anywhere. Where could I find this information, please? What is 'a/try'?
-
Hi Monica
I just finished sorting out all the info I have on Jean Smith's seven brothers. I believe that the Mrs. Flett on the Black Swan in 1861 is her, and if she was accompanied by a brother he would be a Smith and there are 7 brothers. Magnus (45 in 1861), William (43), James (41), Thomas (37), John (32) Simon (26) and Robert (24). John was a gold miner who returned to Orkneys, and he was a ship's carpenter and he is my best bet although Simon is the only brother whose name appears in family papers so he is my 2nd bet. Can you find me any of these Smith boys?
-
Hi Jason
Looks like you making some progress there which great :)
Regarding which of the Smith brothers travelled over to Australia, hard to be definitive at this stage, specially when all I can see is an indexed entry rather than the original image which may or may not include additonal info. (a/try which has been mentioned above, refers to Ancestry.com).
Was it definitively a brother of Jean's that went over to Australia and then came back? Just that the clip I added above from one of the family's genealogy sites mentioned 'and travelled with her 20 yo brother in law, James, who was a goldminer who returned to Orkneys later' not that I could see another Flett on that manifest of the Black Swan.
That is not say that one or more of Jean's brother's didn't go back and forth to Australia.
For example, Simon born in 1834 - an easy one to search for as the name Simon is not that common in Scotland v. Smith ;). I cannot see him on the Scottish censuses so far for 1861 (he may well be there but I just can't see him!). He shows on the Scottish censuses between 1871-91 living at Garth, Harray Orkney. Sisters Elizabeth and Amelia show as living with him most years. Possible death for him in 1895 in Harray (from a general search here www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk).
I did see an index entry showing for a possible crossing to Australia:
Simon Smith, 19 (born c. 1835 which fits) arrived at Port Phillip Bay, Australia in Dec. 1854 on the Stebonheath.
Uk incoming passenger lists don't start until after 1878. Hard therefore to be more definitive than that for now. It could also be that other Smith brothers also went to Australia perhaps?
Monica
-
Dohhh :P
Isn't December 1854 arriving from London on the 'Stebonheath' the same ship that we have John Flett arriving on first to Australia? So maybe it was John rather that Jean with whom one of the Smith boys travelled out with?
Very often more than a grain of truth to the family stories, just sometimes some details deviate...
-
Not sure if you have used the official pay to view site, www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk before. You can get lots of useful info from general searches without having to buy units to view search results or actual images online. It is free to register on the site and you can do just general searches to see what shows.
There is a section on the site under "Wills and testaments" - see left hand side links on the home page. There are a number of entries showing there for Simon Smith for example, a farmer at Garth who died on 19 August 1895. Also likely entry for sister Elizabeth Smith in 1901.
-
There is a Ballarat House close to Garth, Harray so happens! www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1083843
Some easy map references here www.ancientmonuments.info/sc1237-ballarat-house-burnt-mound
Struggle to find more connected with Ballarat House. Can't tell how new/old the property (farm?) may be....
Monica
Added: Ballarat House I can now see on the 1891 and 1901 census. Nor surpringly, looks to be a farm with farmer being a John Corrigall for those two censuses.
-
Brother John Smith married a Margaret Harvey on 4 April 1867 at Harray,Orkney? This looks a likely entry for him and family in 1871:
John Smith 40 ship's carpenter
Margaret Smith 38
Margaret Smith 2
Jane Smith 1
John Smith 1 (twin)
Address: Winksetter Cottage, Harray Orkney
The family still show at Winksetter in 1881 with a couple more children: Emelia 9 and James 6. Same address up to 1901.
John Smith seems to have prospered (likely sound investments from his goldrush days!). He shows as a Farmer (Of 100 Acres Of Which 21 Arable).
Monica
-
Hi
Thanks for all the info - I will check it out on the sites mentioned. Yes, the Stebonheath was John's ship, and he became a boat builder in Australia and family mythology has him being involved in the lengthening of the Black Swan. I visited Orkney and went to Garth (pronounced GERT) and it was also the name of John Smith's house in Williamstown. Furso still stands also and is an up-market villa for rent now. The Johnstons who now live at Garth are my cousins and they were very helpful when I was there. It could be a brother in law, not a brother as you don't know from the letter I have who was doing the talking. If you go to Andrew Kemp's page you will notice that he got much of his information from me many years ago.
-
Hi!
Jane or Jean Flett did not come on the Black Swan in 1861. Her first child was born (and died) in Harray Orkney 18 Feb 1855 and her 2nd son, also John, was born in Williamstown Victoria 11 December 1860, so 1861 is out. Her daughter wrote many years later that Mum came on the White Swan, and if she did, it was between Feb 1855 and December 1860 - may be subtract up to 9 months. If she didn't, why did her husband say that she did????
-
Hi I have had no luck searching for Jane or Jean Flett coming to Australia between Feb 1855 when first baby born in Orkney, and Dec 1860 when 2nd baby born in Williamstown, Victoria, Australia. I believe that John did go on the Stebonheath and would have left when Jane was pregnant with their first child which would have died about 1 month after he landed in Australia. When I check under her maiden name I have 4 possibilities but the ages are inaccurate in 3 cases;
Maldon 1857, Jane 32 years old but should be 30,
Cairgorn 1855, 28 - correct
Herald 1859, 28 - should be 32
Annie Wilson 1859, 34 - should be 32.
How can I further check this information, please?
-
A little discrepancy on dates etc. is that one son John shows as born on 11 Dec 1860 (death on 6 Jan 1861) Williamstown, Victoria
Did note the discrepancy on dates if second born John was showing as born in December in Williamstown. Has this been confirmed?
On any of the BMD registrations, was there no mention of how long John and Jane had been living in Australia?
Monica
-
One more question from me (trying to think of ways for you to narrow down the date/years of Jean's passage to Australia). Where is the source for the birth of son (first born) John as being on 15 Dec. 1855? Can't see it :-\
Scotlands People (SP), the official BMD site as mentioned, only have three births showing for a John Flett in the Orkneys between 1855-6 (sometimes births in late December are registered at the beginning of the following year). These three seem to match those showing on FamilySearch, I think, where there are also only 3 births showing between 1855-6 in Orkney:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQKP-R4D
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQKP-F78
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQKP-LSD
Can't see any births showing between 1854-1860 on familysearch where parents show as John Flett and Jane/Jean Smith. Similarly, there is only one death showing on SP in Orkney (across all the different parishes) for a John Flett between 1855-6. This death is registered in 1861 which seems too late with what you have.
Monica
-
Hi Monica
I have John Flett's birth and baptism Cert from the Society School in Harray and he lists the births and deaths of his 6 children underneath and he states that the first John was 'steal' born 15 February 1855 and the 2nd was born 11 December 1860 and died January 6 1861, the third John is also mentioned and I have his death certificate. The last 2 John's are both buried in Williamstown Cemetery
-
Hi Jason
Not sure on the 'steal' ref - wonder what that means? Wondering whether 'steal' could indicate a stillbirth, explaining why there was no birth or death cert for the baby (or none that I can find on SP)?
Did John father say first born was actually born/died in Harray?
Just thought that dates might help with wife Jane's possible travel dates that is all. Big gap from 1855 to 1860, although going by Trish's note earlier on a possible further arrival to Australia in 1856, likely John was away for long spells at a time following their marriage given his job.
Monica
-
Hi Monica
I agree 'steal' means still birth and the information I have is that it was in the Orkneys. I can't find her under Flett or Smith, nor can I find a brother or brother in law travelling with her. I have another great grandmother, Elizabeth Roberts, who also is an unrecorded arrival in Australia, but on a positive note, I found another great grandmother, Sarah Price arrived in South Australia with her family under the name of Paice - thanks to some clever detective work by Rootschatters. I wonder if Jane or Elizabeth possibly landed interstate or worked in some capacity on the boat????
-
Hi Monica
I believe I have found when Jane Flett arrived - on the Black Swan in 1960 and the infant possibly belonged to Eliza Lowe who was the lady above her on the passenger list. Still chasing it up.