RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: gjkelso on Sunday 25 August 13 00:59 BST (UK)
-
Looking for info on Robert Kelso or his family born in Ireland around 1836 I think maybe around Fallohogey. His children, Joseph, William, Daniel, Mary Maria and David immigrated to Australia from 1877, Joseph married Matilda Graham in 1877 at Tamlaght O’Crilly and come to Townsville Queensland, with William in 1877 aboard the Scottish Bard. I think Roberts’s wife's name was also Matilda. Any help would much appreciated.
-
Hi,
A bit of a long shot but a Robert Kelso married Esther Boggs in Churchtown Presbyterian Church, Tamlaght O'Crilly in 1849. This is close to the townland of FALLAHOGEY.
Regards
-
Welcome to Rootschat.
Fallahogey is near Kilrea and in County Londonderry- you can use 'report to moderator' to have the topic moved to the Derry/Londonderry board.
This house was in Fallahogey and would be typical of that area- and there were/are Kelsos in the area:
http://www.mcgarry-moon.com/fallahogey-house-kilrea/
This is either your website or another family member looking for Robert & Matilda Kelso?
gdavis.id.au/family/p00137.htm#11138
This will give you a rough idea where Fallahogey is (from memory present day Fallahogey Rd. runs through it)-
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=fallahogey+road+kilrea&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
From where they lived they could have gone to numerous churches if Presbyterian- 1st Kilrea, 2nd Kilrea, Boveedy. Churchtown, Swatragh, Portglenone...
Tamlaght O'Crilly records coming soon (might be useful)-
http://www.magheragenealogy.org/index.php/regions/tamlaght-ocrilly-records.html
-
PRONI (Public Records Office of Northern Ireland) have lots of Kelso Will Extracts - put in Kelso, select Londonderry Registry, then search- lots of entries for the area you are looking for-
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
Will have a look through some records and see if I find anything on Robert & Matilda Kelso and their family.
-
Thanks very much to all the posts as they have given me more options to search, i have found a lot of Roberts but none seem to match up,thanks again and any hints will be of a great help.
-
Also researching Shaw Kelso Born 1832 Killigullib and David Kelso Born 1803 Tyrone there children come to Australia and lived in the Townsville area the sometime as Robert Kelso,s children I seem to think that they might be related, I am at a dead end with Robert.
-
Hi,
In 1863 a Shaw Kelso married Elizabeth Quigley in Tamlaght O'Crilly Upper Church of Ireland.
Regards
-
Chasing any information on James Alexander Kelso, born Tamlaught Londerry 1798 and died there in 1850, only Kelso I can find might be related to Robert.
-
Hi,
I can find a James Alexander Kelso who may have been related to Your James. He married Eliza Jane McNeill in Tamlaght O'Crilly Upper Church of Ireland in 1901..
Regards
-
I'm having a bit of trouble following the logic of these posts- perhaps you are making things more difficult for yourself or have other details you haven't posted yet.
Starting from the beginning- you have a Robert Kelso with children Joseph, William, Daniel, Mary Maria and David who immigrated to Australia. Son "Joseph married Matilda Graham in 1877 at Tamlaght O’Crilly and come to Townsville Queensland."
So, what's listed on the 1877 marriage certificate for Joseph's residence (townland)? What's listed for his father's name and occupation? names of 2 witnesses? (all these details may make it easier to find links to the correct Kelso family- it is a fairly common surname in the area).
What about Australian records? any marriage or death certificates for the children who went there which list names of both parents?
There are quite a few record available in ireland which might help but you need to work back step by step to avoid following the wrong family.
-
Firstly thanks again all for your helpful posts. I have posted information regarding Shaw and James Alexander, mainly as a possible match, as they both are from the same area in Ireland and emigrated to the same area in Australia around the same time period.
In reply to aghadowey’s query, both Joseph and Matilda’s residence at the time of marriage was Timaconway. Joseph’s father was Robert and Matilda’s father Samuel Graham. All male’s occupation listed as labourers. Witnesses were Daniel Kelso and George Eakin.
On death certificate of Joseph Kelso, his mother is also listed as Matilda Graham.
This is confusing as both Joseph’s wife and mother are listed as Matilda Graham.
-
If you had Timaconway as their residence why on earth did you say "I think maybe around Fallohogey" in your original post ???
-
Fallohogey is listed as Roberts birth place not Josephs residence.
-
Hello again, with further researching and help from other posts I think maybe Robert lived at (plot 18b) on John Armstrong’s farm on Fallahogey road around 1858. Also as I am having problems with place names, do the births seem to be of a similar area . Robert Kelso Born abt 1836 around Fallahogey , Joseph born abt 1857 Lislea, Daniel born 1858 Unknown, William Albert born 1861 Fallahogey, John born 1864 Kilrea, Mary Maria born 1865 Tellighocibb,Dublin and David born 1866 Kilrea , also a long shot Will of Robert Kelso late of Old Row Kilrea County Londonderry Labourer who died 7 January 1911 at Drumlane. also thanks for your previous posts as the have helped me alot.
-
John Kelso born 1864 Kilrea district- parents Robert Kelso & Matilda Kelso (not Graham)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRHP-KHC
David Kelso born 1866 Kilrea district- parents Robert Kelso & Matilda Kelso
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5J7-QYF
Is this what you are basing Mary's birth on?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MWF4-D4V
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-QLD/2007-04/1175565186
Two things bother me about Mary's details-
1) date- John born March 1864 and David born March 1866 so if born 1865 then little time to fit in a pregancy after John and before David
2) place- even more troubling than the date. All the other places are in the Kilrea area (farm labours did move around) but Dublin seems unlikely and I can't find a townland with that name (or anything similar).
Is there actually proof that Mary is the daughter of Robert Kelso & Matilda Kelso?
A recent thread of yours on another forum?
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.ireland.ldy.general/8339/mb.ashx
Will have another look at some local sources
-
Hi aghadowey thanks for your response ,yes that thread is mine. The reason I have Mary Maria down is from other Local family trees which all have at least one or two of the other siblings in them and all of them list Robert and Matilda as parents. Mary Fletcher (Kelso) death certificate 17 Feb 1909, lists parents as Robert Kelso and Matilda Kelso, also all other trees seem to come to a dead end at Robert like me.
-
Have found a Matilda Kelso Born 1843 at Tellighocibb Dublin(Family Search) the same place as Mary Maria but can not locate this area at all could it perhaps be the name of some Farm or House
-
Looks like this might be the record for Matilda Kelso that you found? It is a submitted family tree which is not the same as an extracted record and shows Matilda born 1843 (no place) & daughter Mary born 'Tellighocibb." You will notice that Matilda's husband Robert 'Kelson' is supposed to be born 1839- this is, I think, just the LDS default which makes wife 4 years younger than husband and so should be taken with a pinch of salt.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MWF4-D4V
Now, there were quite a few Kelsos in Dublin so it's possible Matilda was from there and that she had a child born there. However, it is most unlikely that a Kelso from Co.Londonderry would marry a Kelso from Dublin, have children in Co.Derry, 1 in Dublin and then more in Co.Derry. Civil registration of non-Catholic marriages began in 1845 so if Robert Kelso (born 1839) and Matilda Kelso (born 1843) married in Ireland the marriage should appear in the civil registration index and be easily checked. I can't see a marriage that fits which makes the LDS tree more suspect.
See that someone was looking for same family earlier this year-
https://www.facebook.com/GenealogyResearchAssistant/posts/470823082990794
Added to that is the place "Tellighocibb, Dublin" which perhaps has come from an Australian record?
Now, unless someone can come up with this (or similar name) in Co. Dublin, then I suspect this it might actually be a mixed-up phonetic spelling of Tamlaght O'Crilly. If the original record gave Mary Maria's birthplace as 'Tellighocibb, Ireland' and then the sublmitter of the LDS tree put in that as Mary Maria's birthplace it is possible that a drop-down box appeared and they then clicked on Dublin by mistake.
-
Once again thanks for your helpful advice, the information i found for Matilda,s birth place was at MWF4-D46 on family search but like you say there is no real evidence.
-
I have acquired a copy of Mary Kelso,s Death Certificate and it makes her birth year at about 1862 and states birth area as Rosepark Derry Ireland, ,from the internet I think it might be a place in Londonderry City, but any other ideas of where this place might be would be much appreciated.
-
Hi,
In Derry there is a Rose Park House on Rosemount Avenue in the Rosemount area of the city. Rosemount Av. leads on to Park Ave.
Regards
-
I think the bed & breakfast called 'Rose Park House' that you found is a recent name but will have a look to see if I can find something older and closer to Kilrea.
-
First of all Happy New Year To all, once again thanks for all your posts as any extra hints and advice is well appreciated.
-
Hi this seems a long shot but do you think this might be the place of Mary,s birth. Found this on a website
Margaret JohnsonTradition suggests that Francis Blake Forster let Clooneene (Ashfield) and built a house which he called Rosepark, after his wife, Rose French. Rosepark House is recorded by Lewis in 1837 as the seat of the Hugo family. It was leased by Michael Kane to George Crowe at the time of Griffith's Valuation. It was then valued at £12. Apart from some estate walls there is no evidence of this property now. Townland: Derry – Civil Parish: Beagh- Poor Law Union: Gort- DED: Beagh 98- Barony: Kiltartan – County : Galway.
-
Hi I just found this conversion & am connected to the Kelso's by my GGrandfather William John . He came to Queensland, Australia from Kilrea in 1885. His father was Shaw Kelso & mother was Elizabeth Quigley. He left Ireland with his brother Robert Shaw Kelso. I wonder if the families are related?
-
Sorry, Kelso/Quigley marriage already given in an earlier answer.
Regards
-
Hi Possum100
I also believe that Shaw and Robert are somehow related, I have been researching but as yet have not come up with any ties, there were at least 20 Kelso families in the Tamlaght O’ Crilly area in the 1831 census. Shaw I think is the son of John Kelso of Killygullib and Elizabeth Rainey was his wife, I still have not been able to find any Parents or siblings for Robert or Matilda Kelso.
-
After much researching and cross checking death certificates these are the places, names and dates that are recorded for Robert and Matilda Kelso’s children, Joseph born 1856 Derry Ireland, William Albert born 1861 Felhahonay, Londonderry, Ireland, Mary born 1864(misread original date) Rosepark ,Derry , Daniel Joseph, born 1866 Dublin Ireland , David born 1868 Londonderry Ireland. John born 1864? Kilrea, He Is also listed as Robert and Matilda’s child (have not been able to find any information on or do not know if he come to Australia or died early), But after researching Matilda Graham’s death certificate Joseph is listed as William Joseph, also the name of his third son does this seem possible to have two Williams in the some family.
-
Hi,
I think that "Felhahoney" should read FALLAHOGY which is in the Parish of Kilrea.
Regards
-
Yes i agree but i have just copied word for word from the certificates.
-
I know this is a long shot but Roberts grandson’s name was John Bunting Kelso, would it be possible that he’s second name come about from the marriage of someone in the family to a Bunting, I have been checking for marriages but have found none, but the 1831 census of Londonderry they show a few Bunting families, once again any suggestions will be much appreciated.
-
Hi, after cross checking all certificates of Robert and Matilda's children they all say either Lislea and Fallahogy and in the Revaluation books has a Robert at 18b Fallahogy until 1871, as I cannot find any more information on them and son John, I now will try to find information from cemeteries would anyone have any suggestions from around that area where perhaps they may have been buried. I do not know their religion, other than their children in Australia were buried by Presbyterian and Church of England.
-
They will not be buried in a cemetery so the logical place to start is churchyards- first, their own church and then the local Parish Church (Church of Ireland) where many Presbyterians would also have been buried. Presbyterian Churches don't have burial registers (although a few ministers sometime did keep their own records) and sometimes the C. of I. register didn't include Presbyterian burials. So, if there are no gravestones it will be much more difficult to locate a final resting place.
Newspaper death notices sometimes mentioned funeral arrangements but the local newspapers are not online.
There are some Kilrea church records here (with errors) which might be the place for you to start online searching.
http://www.torrens.org.uk/Genealogy/BannValley/church/contents.html
-
A Robert Kelso married a Sarah Bolton, d/o. Sloan Bolton (Tamlaght O’Crilly) & Mary Ann McIlwrath (Boveedy). Robert & Sarah had a son, John, who went to NZ in the early 1900’s.
Regards - Dinny.
-
Hi Dinny
Thanks for your help, I have researched this particular Robert and found he does not match. The closest I feel so far is the Robert that married Esther Boggs although I have not found any evidence to prove so. I also feel that Matildas parents were James Alexander Kelso and Margaret Dinsmore just going on family names, but yet again have found no real proof.
-
Thanks for your reply. Sorry I could not help. All the best for your research. Regards - Dinny.
-
Sarah Bolton, d/o. Sloan Bolton & Mary Ann McIlrath of Tamlaght O’Crilly Co Derry , m. Dr Robert Kelso. Maybe this is the Robert Kelso being sought. Regards - Dinny.
-
You've already mentioned that Robert Kelso but he's been discounted-
A Robert Kelso married a Sarah Bolton, d/o. Sloan Bolton (Tamlaght O’Crilly) & Mary Ann McIlwrath (Boveedy). Robert & Sarah had a son, John, who went to NZ in the early 1900’s.
Regards - Dinny.
Hi Dinny
Thanks for your help, I have researched this particular Robert and found he does not match. The closest I feel so far is the Robert that married Esther Boggs although I have not found any evidence to prove so. I also feel that Matildas parents were James Alexander Kelso and Margaret Dinsmore just going on family names, but yet again have found no real proof.
-
I have found two more children of Robert and Matilda, Samuel who married Mary Anne Finlay and Alexander who married Ellen Redmond both moved to Scotland to live. On Alexanders wedding certificate (1873) it has Matilda listed as deceased, the last recorded birth was David (1866) I have checked all the Irish and Scottish death records from these time periods and have come up empty. Any suggestions on where else I could research for her death notice. Also I’m almost certain I have found Roberts Death certificate listed as a labourer died at Drummoolish 26-06-1879 aged 60.
-
I think you might be making this whole Kelso search more complicated than it needs to be.
I cannot find a death in Ireland for a Matilda Kelso between 1866 (birth of David) & 1873 (Alexander's marriage). However, this Robert Kelso you dismissed earlier-
Probate of the Will of Robert Kelso late of Old Row Kilrea County Londonderry Labourer who died 7 January 1911 at Drumlane granted at Londonderry to John Bloomfield Saddler and Alexander Adams Merchant.
1901 census he's listed with wife Sarah & 2 sons-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Tamlaght/Drumlane/1521304
which fits with marriage of Robert Kelso to Sarah Bolton also mentioned earlier (Robert Kelso 1873 to May Sarah). Three sons-
John born 9 April 1876
Robert born 7 July 1877
Thomas born 5 Oct.1887
1911 widow Mary Sarah Kelso with son Thomas B. Kelso-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Tamlaght/Drumlane/592346
I suspect that Robert Kelso might be a widower in 1873- the certificate will list marital status as well as Robert's residence and father's name & occupation.
-
Hi aghadowey
The Robert that married Mary Sarah Bolton is listed as a bachelor ,Farmer and his father was John Kelso of Drumlane.
-
Hi gjkelso - The lady who married Robert Kelso, farmer, to whom you refer was not named Mary Sarah - just simply Sarah, the sister of my great grandmother and daughter of Sloan Bolton & Mary Ann McIlrath. Regards - Dinny.
-
Hi Dinny
I was just going of marriage certificate, she was listed as Mary Sarah and also signed as Mary Sarah ,father listed as Sloan Bolton
-
Looks like Mary Sarah when she married-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYQ4-JPN
Also Mary Sarah here-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGNR-SHP
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG5X-BXF
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRMF-T19
...
-
Looking at Townland maps i see a place called the The Parks in Fallahogy perhaps this may be the place that was mentioned as Rosepark on Marys certificate, does any one have any information on this site.
-
Hey there!
Have no info to provide that would help you in your search, but I am also on the hunt for a Robert Kelso and sometimes it helps to just put it all out there.
Robert Kelso c1800 had a son, Edward c1826. Edward had a half-sister named Esther (Hessy) Kelso who had a child baptized 1843, so she was presumably older than Edward. Unless there was a Kelso=Kelso marriage or an adoption, I am assuming they shared a father until I learn otherwise.
Edward Kelso m Matilda McComb of Larne, Antrim, in 1852, and his father is listed as Robert, occupation gentleman. The couple had at least one child, John Kirk Kelso c1856, though unsure whether he was born Antrim Town or Donaghadee, Down. John Kirk Kelso eventually emigrated to Ballarat, Australia, where he married Elizabeth Carman and had at least one daughter, Lillian Kirk Kelso.
Edward left shares in his will to the 2nd Presbyterian and the Primitive Wesleyan Methodist Congregations in Antrim Town. Why both?
Edward's half-sister Hessy (Esther) Kelso appears to have married a Catholic, Daniel Sheils. No record found as yet. They had at least three children, all bapd St Patrick's RC Belfast: John Charles 1843, Elisa 1844, and Anne 1847.
Edward's will says "late of Donaghadee," when his will was drawn up in 1857, but his executors were residents of Antrim Town. He died in 1859, so sad - his son was about three years old! My thinking is he knew he was ill and relocated for his health - but that is just a theory.
Hessy Sheils (Hester Shields) lived in Ballynafeigh, County Down, now part of South Belfast, in 1862 and moved to Birkenhead, Cheshire, England c1873 with her daughter Elizabeth (Rice), and where she died in 1892.
No idea if Anne Sheals b1847 survived. John Charles Sheils lived, procreated, and died in Ballynafeigh (Down, Ormeau on census).
Derry hadn't even been considered as the origin of Robert until I saw Tamlaght O'Crilly on a map and realized its proximity to County Antrim, and could possibly answer why Edward set up shop in Antrim Town or how he even met a girl from Larne.
No siblings mentioned in Edward's will other than Hessy. If Edward's marriage record is correct, he was born 1826, so I would imagine his parents' marriage would have taken place not long before then.
What struck me as unusual was the emigration of so many Kelsoes from Derry to Australia, and I was wondering if John Kirk Kelso may have known another Kelso who was already there before emigrating.
Also curious is his name, JOHN KIRK Kelso, and his daughter LILLIAN KIRK Kelso. Who were these Kirk people? There is a John Kirk, Loan Fund Manager, in Antrim Town in 1852 street directory, but I have yet to connect the name Kirk with Kelso as yet.
Any help to further my search would be greatly appreciated.
-
Derry hadn't even been considered as the origin of Robert until I saw Tamlaght O'Crilly on a map and realized its proximity to County Antrim, and could possibly answer why Edward set up shop in Antrim Town or how he even met a girl from Larne.
Tamlaght O'Crilly is indeed near County Antrim border but not near Larne or even that close to Antrim (town).
-
Aghadowey: 20 miles, not so far if he were looking for a substantial town in which to make and sell his watches and clocks.
Maybe he moved to Antrim because the John Kirk, Loan Fund Society Manager, was a relative as Edward's son was named John Kirk Kelso?
Dr. Thomas McCombe, his future BIL, was the workhouse medical officer in town and probably how he met his wife to be, though she lived in Larne.
-
Hi
After much research the name Edward does not appear at all in my line,if i do find any information at all i will pass it on. After checking the Valuation Revision records for house 19 in Drumlane lists tenants from 1866 onward are John Kelso, Robert Jr, Mary Sarah then Thomas B Kelso. Robert's father on wedding certificate was John ,any ideas why Robert is listed as junior.
-
The practice to distinguish between multiple people (usually men) of the same name in a particular townland in Ireland as explained by eadaoin is quite common and found frequently in sources like Griffith's Valuation.
However, there is (at least in Ulster) the use of Junior and Senior to distinguish between men of the same name but not in the same way of using them for a father and son.
For example, in 1860 there are 2 men called John Kennedy in the same townland (may or may not be related or at least closely related) so the older is called Senior and the younger called Junior. By 1870 the older one is dead but he had a son John who lived in the family home- he is now called John Junior and the other one (John Junior in 1860) has become known as John Senior. This can continue for generations and often causes confusion when trying to sort out which one is which.