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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: blmacarthur on Tuesday 03 September 13 15:19 BST (UK)
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Looking for:
(1) Marriage information for Mary Quinn (b. abt 1841, Amargh) and John Austin (b. abt 1840, Down, Ire) - based on census information (1881 UK Census) - appears married about 1863-1864 (first child's age).
(2) John Austin's parent's information.
I've tried Familysearch and IrishGenealogy.ie, but cannot find the information.
Thank you!
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The 1881 census return shows the family had Scottish connections
as the eldest son was born there
They are on the 1871 census in Lanarkshire
and the 1891 & 1901 census in Paisley
The couple may have married in Scotland and many of their records are not available online freely
The site http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ may be of help
on a free search there is one matches for a marriage of John Austin in 1864
however there is no Mary Quinn match
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Scottish birth certificates record the date and place that the parents married (save for 1856 - 1860). So I would get a copy of the eldest child's birth certificate from Scotlandspeople and see what that says about where they married.
If the marriage was RC, then RC marriages prior to 1.1.1864 aren't listed in the Irish statutory records, and that may be why it is not showing up on familysearch etc. However the Scottish birth certificate may solve the problem.
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May be a complete red herring (I haven't looked at the census details) but there are 2 births in Tandragee district for children of a John Austin & Mary Quinn-
John (1867) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR9P-23F
Cecilia (1869) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPYW-42Y
Also some Scottish births-
Patrick (1863) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ5T-DQT
Ann (1872) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQZK-H7C
It's possible these are not all from the same family so best to keep an open mind for the moment.
Added- 1891 has daughter Cecilia born Ireland c1870, son John and daughter Annie that looks like a match for the above details. 1881 census includes son Patrick born Scotland. So, looks like those 4 children could all belong to your family.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Those records look correct against what I looked up and thought to be John AUSTIN & Mary QUINN
Children born between 1863 and 1883 include:
Patrick b. Glasgow
John b. Armagh
Cecily/Cecilia b. Armagh
Hugh b. Scotland
Ann b. Scotland
Mary Ellen b. Auckland Pk. Durham
Alice Jane b. Chilton, Durham
Thomas Henry b. Chilton, Durham
William F. b. Chilton, Durham
Elizabeth b. England
Link to 1881 Census return (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3R8-FXN)
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Thank you for the info.
Any indication of John's parentage? I have Mary's next generation, but cannot find his.
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Scottish birth certificates record the date and place that the parents married (save for 1856 - 1860). So I would get a copy of the eldest child's birth certificate from Scotlandspeople and see what that says about where they married.
I would suggest you take Elwyn Soutter's advice and apply for Patrick's birth certificate from Scotland; if this shows the place and date of marriage you would then be able to locate that to get at least John's father's name
Editted to add:
You could also look for Hugh and Ann's birth certificates as a double check or in case one has more information than another
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Need help reading their marriage information.
Thanks for the reply to last message, it helped.
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I read the marraige reference as
1862 May 16; Parr of Kil???
Co. Armagh, Ireland
At a guess it could be KILLEVY
This is a Link to the Griffiths Valuations (http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/armagh/killevy.htm) for that area which includes Quinn families; you may be able to match to what you know on Mary as most couples married in the bride's parish
I am not very familiar with Armagh and open to suggestions
editted to include
There is a marraige record in 1862 on rootsireland.ie in Armagh
John Austin to Mary Quinn in KILMORE Roman Catholic Parish
By purchasing the record you may gain more information but it will depend on how much was recorded.
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A pre-1864 R.C. marriage record from the church is unlikely to give the father's name but you might be lucky. Usually shows date, bride, groom, maybe names of 2 witnesses & priest's name.
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You know that two of the children were born in Ireland. What looks like Cecelia’s birth was registered in Banbridge, Co Down 1869, Volume 6 page 263. Banbridge registration area includes part of the parish of Kilmore in Co Armagh so that fits with the information you have about where the family originated. I would be inclined to order a copy of that birth certificate to see where they were living etc.
I do not see a birth for John Austin in Banbridge around that time. The nearest is for William John Austin whose birth was registered in Lurgan Co Armagh 1867 Vol 11, page 710. (Perhaps the family moved home in the years they were back in Ireland).
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I was able to find John, 17 May 1867, born in Tanderagee District, Armagh, Ireland, with the parents names showing John Austen (once again).
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Tandragee falls within Banbridge civil registration area so that fits with the information I found on the likely birth for Cecilia. I checked again and this time found a match for the birth of John Austen – Banbridge 1867 Vol 6, page 288.
The civil birth certificate usually contains more information than a baptism cert, and so it would probably pay you to get one or both of the 2 children’s certificates, if you want to know where the parents were living and what the father was doing by way of employment..
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Possible baptism of John Austin on Sept 03 1837 in Tullyish, Co. Down
Son of Patrick Austin and Eleanor Hanlon
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On Patrick's birth cert his birth is 18 July 1863 at 5 Middleton St Glasgow (in the High Church district).The parents marriage is listed as 16 May 1862 Kilbroney, county Armagh but looking at parish registers for Kilbroney there is no record of their marriage for that year or 2 yrs either side so do not know what is what. Kim
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There is a church marriage for the couple in Kilmore Parish, Co Armagh on May 18 1862
This was just before the start of civil registrations
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On Patrick's birth cert his birth is 18 July 1863 at 5 Middleton St Glasgow (in the High Church district).The parents marriage is listed as 16 May 1862 Kilbroney, county Armagh but looking at parish registers for Kilbroney there is no record of their marriage for that year or 2 yrs either side so do not know what is what. Kim
Kilbroney is in Co. Down.
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On Patrick's birth cert his birth is 18 July 1863 at 5 Middleton St Glasgow (in the High Church district).The parents marriage is listed as 16 May 1862 Kilbroney, county Armagh but looking at parish registers for Kilbroney there is no record of their marriage for that year or 2 yrs either side so do not know what is what. Kim
Kilbroney is in Co. Down.
Indeed it is!
https://www.townlands.ie/down/kilbroney/
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There is a church marriage for the couple in Kilmore Parish, Co Armagh on May 18 1862
This was just before the start of civil registrations
There appears to be two children's baptism to this marriage
John 17 May 1867 RootsIreland (transcriptions only) has the father as John Auston and Mary Quin and Julia 4 Feb 1869 father as John Austin
the sponsor on Julia's is Alice Quin, the informant on Cecilia Austin's birth is an Alice Quinn, the day and year fits but not the month but than the birth wasn't registered until May 1869.
Could Julia and Cecilia be the same person?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03399/2246543.pdf
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There is a church marriage for the couple in Kilmore Parish, Co Armagh on May 18 1862
This was just before the start of civil registrations
There appears to be two children's baptism to this marriage
John 17 May 1867 RootsIreland (transcriptions only) has the father as John Auston and Mary Quin and Julia 4 Feb 1869 father as John Austin
the sponsor on Julia's is Alice Quin, the informant on Cecilia Austin's birth is an Alice Quinn, the day and year fits but not the month but than the birth wasn't registered until May 1869.
Could Julia and Cecilia be the same person?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03399/2246543.pdf
Don't have to rely on a transcript for Julia
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632601#page/78/mode/1up (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632601#page/78/mode/1up)
Clearly another premature baptism. Julia is Cecilia.