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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: touchofmange on Friday 06 September 13 14:37 BST (UK)

Title: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Friday 06 September 13 14:37 BST (UK)
Hi i've got a walter and fanny perry married with no kids on the 1871c at St martin wiltshire which is salisbury i think. I should say that the census had them as Herry which might be a sign of the problem. I thought as they have fairly distinctive christian names they might be findable. I've pretty much checked everything off and there's no sign of them, and i've checked the wilts deaths. On that basis i'm guessing they may have emigrated or gone to the poorhouse where they may not be recorded by name. It could be really useful if they have emigrated, i have a cousin of his in NSW Aus and another in scotland. His censuses said he was an ag labourer.

walter perry bn jun 1842 @ charlton st peter wilts
fanny waters bn 1845 oct 1845 @ woodford wilts
married in salisbury may 1867.

appreciate any help thanks
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: lizdb on Friday 06 September 13 14:47 BST (UK)
Full details of the 1871 that you refer to (always best to look at the image, not just the index transcription)

RG10 1956 28 6

Love Lane, salisbury
Walter Perry 27 labourer bn Charlton Wilts
Fanny 26 bn Woodford Wilts
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 06 September 13 15:32 BST (UK)
When you say there's no sign of them,what exactly do you mean?

Is the 1871 the only census you've found them on?

Do you have that 1867 marriage cert and therefore know who their father's were?

Carol

ADDED- have just found their marriage in Salisbury on 14th May 1867.
His father was William Perry and hers Charles Waters.


Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Friday 06 September 13 15:36 BST (UK)
When you say there's no sign of them,what exactly do you mean?

Is the 1871 the only census you've found them on?

Do you have that 1867 marriage cert and therefore know who their father's were?

Carol

no i have his family line back, he has a large number of siblings and i've gone back to try and eliminate the dead ends, i thought walter's would be fairly simple.  No i just want to find them to see if they bring me other leads on my perry tree.
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 06 September 13 15:41 BST (UK)
So I think you mean that you can't find them anywhere after 1871,is that correct?
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Friday 06 September 13 15:43 BST (UK)
yes that's it.
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: lizdb on Friday 06 September 13 15:44 BST (UK)
Looking at this 1881 entry, I would hazzard a guess that they had a couple of children , moved to Hampshire between the births of them, Walter then died, and then Fanny married a Frederick Skeates, who was a widower with several children!

1881
RG 11 1262 7 8
Appleshaw Hampshire
Frederick Skeates 44 ag lab bnAppleshaw
Fanny 36 bn Wiltshire Woodford
Frank Skeates 15 bn Appleshaw
Fanny Skeates 13 bn App.
Eliza Skeates 12 bn App.
Elizabeth Skeates 10 bn App
Ellen Skeates 8 bn App
Fanny Perry 8 duaghter-in-law bn salisbury Wilts
Charles Perry 6 son in law bn Appleshaw

(In law is often used for a step child)

Bet is was confusing with 3 people called Fanny in the house!
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 06 September 13 15:46 BST (UK)
Well done Liz, I was just looking at that Fanny- as I entered the name Fanny and born Woodford,but discounted them without looking into it further. ::)
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: lizdb on Friday 06 September 13 15:47 BST (UK)
Walter's  death

Jul/Aug/Sep 1979
Andover reg district (covers Appleshaw)
Ref 2c 105
Walter Perry aged 35
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 06 September 13 15:49 BST (UK)
I was just gonna type that death too  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: lizdb on Friday 06 September 13 15:50 BST (UK)
Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1880
Andover ref 2c 445
Fanny Perry / Frederick Skeates

Bet you were just going to type this marriage too!!  ;D
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 06 September 13 15:51 BST (UK)
Marriage
Oct/Nov/Dec 1880
Andover ref 2c 445
Fanny Perry / Frederick Skeates

Bet you were just going to type this marriage too!!  ;D

No,cos I just nipped off to the loo  8)
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: lizdb on Friday 06 September 13 15:56 BST (UK)
1891
RG 12 964  4  1

Tilly Down, Appleshaw
Frederick Skeates 55 ag lab bn Appleshaw
Fanny 46 bn Wilts Woodford
Charles F Perry 16 bn Appleshaw

(On Ancestry Charles is indexed as Skeates, but he is Perry on the image)
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Friday 06 September 13 15:57 BST (UK)
hey liz you're an absolute star.

glad they had a couple of kids, gives me something to chase up. i'm almost certain wiltsfhs will be delighted with a few more strays lol.

thanks
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Friday 06 September 13 19:37 BST (UK)
well charles fred married and moved back to wiltshire where he had his own charles fred perry, i've got them on the 1911c and i'm half expecting him to go to war next but i haven't found anything for him yet, which may be good for him.

his older sister fanny e perry i have as a servant in the 1891c in hampshire and i suspect she's got married after that as she's hiding again.

i've got 8 of walter's siblings to research yet so they may turn up lol.

Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: lizdb on Saturday 07 September 13 09:16 BST (UK)
Probate index

Charles Fred Perry of 17 Waverley Rd Cosham Portsmouth died 28 Feb 1942 . Admin Llandudno to Clara Perry widow Effects £181 - 15 s - 9d

Death index shows he was 67, so of right age for 'yours'

Shame there was no will, so no more info available.
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Saturday 07 September 13 10:36 BST (UK)
thanks that portsmouth link is good as my great grandfather moved there and had many of his children, so 4 generations of my family  :)  Wondering if he died during the bombing, will have to check the papers and the bombing nights.

glad you've said that as it reminded me i've another probate to add. Also if there is a probate i can apply for a copy of the will, think it costs about £6. 

thanks
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Saturday 07 September 13 12:15 BST (UK)
well i was hoping to find a civilian roll of honour for portsmouth or hampshire but i'm struggling, anyone seen it on their travels?  i found one for southampton but not pompey. failing that would there be a death notice in one of the papers for 1942? i've not really done much modern research.

thanks
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 07 September 13 12:20 BST (UK)
He didn't die as a result of the war.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

He has a normal death index.

Deaths Mar 1942   

Perry    Charles F    age 67    Portsmouth    2b   1205
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Saturday 07 September 13 12:36 BST (UK)
He didn't die as a result of the war.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

He has a normal death index.

Deaths Mar 1942   

Perry    Charles F    age 67    Portsmouth    2b   1205

ok thanks carol, would he have not had a normal index if he'd died as a civilian then?

the other good thing about link is his son of the same name doesn't appear in the 1st or 2nd world war deaths so i might have some more family to trace.

Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 07 September 13 12:49 BST (UK)
I'm not 100% sure but I think they were only down as war dead?
I know that soldiers are not listed int he usual death indexes.
Maybe someone will come along soon with more knowledge of that.

I suppose the only way to be sure would be to buy the death cert for £9-25 from the GRO.

Carol
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Saturday 07 September 13 13:38 BST (UK)
i've found charles wife's probate, she died at the same address in portsmouth about a year later and probate was to her son charles fred perry a railway guard.  Firstly i know the son is still alive in 1943, secondly he would have been 18 a few months before the end of ww1 so there may be something for that, also there may be railway employment records.  I could probably get his address off the will.
Updated: i could find nothing on his railway employment on ancestry, but there was a brief RNVR naval record (in wales) for the last few months of ww1 though obviously he spent most of it training if not all of it. had his personal details but no addresses  :(

after 1911 would there have been anything that listed peoples addresses or would it have been business directories, i'm thinking more of the parents who may have lived in various places in portsmouth for 30 years after the last census.

also as they both died in portsmouth, is the llandudno probate office likely to be because of the war, moving official docs out of the way?

appreciate any help thanks
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 07 September 13 14:37 BST (UK)

also as they both died in portsmouth, is the llandudno probate office likely to be because of the war, moving official docs out of the way?

appreciate any help thanks

Now THAT I do know the answer to.......yes  ;D ;D ;D

They moved it back to London in 1946 apparently.
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Saturday 07 September 13 15:58 BST (UK)
me again lol

i've gone back to try and find the 1901 for fanny e perry (i believe fanny ellen perry 1872).
i have found an iffy one on a census that looks like helen perry, in trying to check it i've gone on to the 1911c and found another one which i'd like to rule in or out.

fanny helen sybil perry 35 widow 1 child bn & living, children's nurse domestic, bn salisbury. patient in dorset county hospital

i've tried a variation of searches both for bmd's and come up blank. In terms of the widow thing i suppose she could have made that up if she had an illeg child.  The sybil could be reference to a former spouse perhaps?  Can you help pinpoint who this person is?

appreciate any help thanks
Title: Re: missing married couple
Post by: touchofmange on Saturday 07 September 13 21:04 BST (UK)
me again lol

i've gone back to try and find the 1901 for fanny e perry (i believe fanny ellen perry 1872).
i have found an iffy one on a census that looks like helen perry, in trying to check it i've gone on to the 1911c and found another one which i'd like to rule in or out.

fanny helen sybil perry 35 widow 1 child bn & living, children's nurse domestic, bn salisbury. patient in dorset county hospital

i've tried a variation of searches both for bmd's and come up blank. In terms of the widow thing i suppose she could have made that up if she had an illeg child.  The sybil could be reference to a former spouse perhaps?  Can you help pinpoint who this person is?

appreciate any help thanks

just to totally throw a spanner in the works, on lds they have two christening indexes for fanny ellen perry to walter and fanny, but one says buried 23 jan 1873, within a month or so of birth.  i've had a look around for death indexes to match with no luck, and with no other births indexed, who is that fanny perry in the skeates household? 
Could one of the lds records be wrong?

appreciate any help thanks