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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Bethan on Tuesday 26 November 13 17:34 GMT (UK)
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My grandfather Albert Hugh Denton @1898 Bedford was a private in this regiment, the only thing I know about his service is that he was gassed and died as a relatively young man as a result of the damage caused by the mustard gas, how can I find out more about his service and where he was injured? Best Wishes Bethan
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Bethan,
His Service Records are on Ancestry, there are 19 pages, but many are duplicated, unfortunately I do not have time to go through them all as I need to log off now.
He enlisted in the Bedfordshire Regt. not Northamptonshire.
Jebber
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Thank you so much for that information Jebber, so kind of you to look it up for me, I will have to treat myself too an Ancestry subscription for Christmas, could anyone advise me on the best one to get?or could I get it on the library subscription?
Best Wishes Bethan
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For your purposes, if you don't want to use it for an extended period, and you also want to be able to access British WW1 military records, the minimum subscription you will need, is...
1 month Premium Subscription. £ 12.95
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/offers/subscribe?sub=1
Click on the compare tabs to see what that particular subscription gives you access to.
Be VERY VERY warned,...read the subscription and payment terms very carefully, because in regards to your monthly subscription fee, it isn't a one off fee.
If you don't notify them in the prescribed way and in the prescribed time period that you wish to cancel your monthly subscription, your membership will remain in force, and you will be automatically re-billed for the following monthly period, and that will continue each month until you cancel your subscription.
Also be aware that the ancestry search engine is one of the most awkward, difficult to use, and counter intuitive pieces of junk on the internet, and also, the records on ancestry have been transcribed by volunteer transcribers, and their efforts haven't been properly checked for errors, of which there are many, so take nothing on that site at face value, especially the search results transcriptions, and check the original documents yourself.
Some local libraries and public record offices in the UK do offer access to the ancestry site via a facility called the ancestry library edition, ask them, you might need to take a memory stick to download any records, they may also print them out for you.
I don't know if such access will include access to military records, so obviously, just ask them.
They may also possibly offer access to findmypast which is an excellent and very easy to use site and it's serch engine is very good and is also easy to use, findmypast does have some military records but not much from WW1, most of what you want will only be on ancestry.
http://librarywales.org/your-library/
http://www.mytimemachine.co.uk/archives.htm
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Thank you so much for that info Cashew, I think I will try the library option first, my local library used to have Ancestry I will have to check in the morning, thank you again for your help Best Wishes Bethan
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Better take a look at the births and deaths registrations records whilst you're at it Bethan.
"Born 1898 and died as a relatively young man." ?
;) Depends what you mean by young.
He was born in Bedford on 6th March 1898 and he died there in the summer of 1975,...aged 79.!
He was tiny 5 ft 6 inches 32 inch chest 7 stone a tallish schoolboy really far too thin for the infantry really, and these guys sometimes had to carry 50lbs of weight or more, absurd.
Perhaps that's why he wasn't sent to France for two years.
He enlisted in June 1916 aged 18 and 3 months into the Bedfordshire Regiment 30174 was classed as B2 medically, was a clerk in civilian life.
Landed in Calais July 1918, as a bomber = grenade thrower, was almost immediately hospitalized for several days in Etaples with flu.
Was then transferred to the 13th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment 41281, was discharged early 1919.
13th (Service) Battalion, formed in France on 11th June 1918 as 8th Garrison Guard Battalion became 13th (Garrison) Battalion on 13th July 1918.
Awarded British War and Allied Victory campaign medals.
Military wise
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Has to be the wrong man then Cashew, my grandfather died in Wales around 1950, thanks for looking anyway, I am trying to find out when he came to Wales as he was still in Bedford in 1911, cause there is a possibility that he enlisted in Wales and might have joined the Welsh regiment, thank you so much for the help, also I have just discovered via the 1901 census that he was born 1894 Best wishes Bethan
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The details for the Albert Hugh Denton who was born in Bedford in 1898 and who died there in 1975 are a perfect match and there aren't any other possible matches.
There has never been a death for Albert Hugh Denton or Albert H. Denton in Wales.
The only death in Wales in the 1950's for a man with the surname of Denton and a first name of Albert was Albert Denton, no additional forenames, who died in the Pontypridd area of Glamorganshire in the first quarter of 1951 aged 57.
Which puts his date of birth at around early 1894.
There are only two possible birth matches for that death.
One is slightly out because he has an additional birth forename.
One is slightly out because his date of birth seems to be slightly too late.
However, if their deaths were registered by someone who didn't know them very well, then an error could have been made.
I suspect that the first person is the correct one.
The two births were...
Albert Henry Denton born in April/May/June 1894 in the Hartley Wintney area of Hampshire.
Albert Denton born in October/November/December 1894 in the Hunslet area of Yorkshire.
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Sorry to confuse you Cashew, my mother who is 86 gave me the details and sadly some of them were wrong, found his wedding certificate today turns out he only had the name Albert, he was the one who died in Glamorgan in 1951 though, but according to the censuses he was born in Bedford/Northampton, my mother does not have a birth certificate for him,although we do know for definite his father was called Hugh, thank you for all your help Best Wishes Bethan
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To cut to the chase, and omit the reasoning on this for now, the bottom line on this is, IF you know for 100% certain, provably, and beyond any possible doubt or error, that the man who died in Wales in 1951 definitely WAS your grandfather,...then,...he wasn't the Albert Hugh whom you found in the census who was born in Bedford in 1898,...he WAS,...this man...
Albert Denton born in Bedford Oct/November/December 1893
That's his birth registration date and parents have 6 weeks in which to register a birth, and so he could have been born as early as mid August.
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It definitely was the one he died in Feb 51 in Glamorgan, and he was born in Bedford, the problem I have is finding which regiment he served with, because although he was in Bedford in 1911, we are not sure when he came to Wales and therefore it is possible that he joined a Welsh regiment, but now that I have a better idea of his birthdate it might make the search easier, thank you so much for all your help, I might have to get back to you if I get stuck, Best Wishes Bethan
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In some of those military records a particular individual can only be definitely identified by means of their exact year and place of birth, both of which you now have.
With any genealogical enquiry message, whether military related or not, it's important to state not only what information you already have, (and whether or not it's proven or assumed ), but also your source, for example, documentary, hearsay, family knowledge.
For example, IF, your source for his regiment was from mum, and IF she was told that by her father or the family, then that probably was his regiment, either of enlistment or discharge, or both.
On the other hand, if you just assumed that he had enlisted in the regiment local to where he was either born or was living in WW1, then it ain't necessarily so.
Men could and did enlist in non local regiments, or in the artillery, or engineers, or other Corps.
They could enlist in the unit of their choice, but also, either at the time of their enlistment, or later in their service, they could be sent to serve in a different unit if manpower needs required that.
Some men served in several different regiments and or Corps and service numbers weren't unique to an individual so some people had several service numbers.
All of their medal record cards survived, but they only show unit, service number, and sometimes date of early discharge or death.
The major proportion of WW1 service records were destroyed in the WW2 Blitz.
So it isn't always possible to prove that a person on a particular medal record card was a particular individual.
His older brother Frank served in the Royal Engineers and was at the same address as below in Bedford after his discharge.
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Thanks a lot Cashew,this is the right family, my mother says that there was an older brother Harold as well and she thinks that they all served in the same regiment, so I will have to look at the Royal Engineers, could you tell me if the Royal Engineers was a separate regiment, or were they attached to other regiments?
Thank you so much for all your help
Best wishes Bethan
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The Royal Engineers = R.E. wasn't a regiment in the way that an infantry or cavalry regiment was.
It was a Corps, ( pronounced as core ), a Corps can also mean a large subdivision of an army.
In the case of the R.E. it means a separate organisation with specialist skills and duties.
The R.E. laid cables, dug tunnels, built roads, operated water transport, did a whole range of mechanical and constructional tasks, by the end of the war there were nearly 300,000 men in the R.E..
A Private in the R.E. is called a Sapper from an old fashioned word which means to dig, a sap is also another name for a trench or a tunnel.
The R.E. would have operated in separate self contained units, but many of those units would have been attached to, or worked in conjunction with, other army units, such as infantry or artillery units.
http://www.1914-1918.net/cre.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnelling_companies_of_the_Royal_Engineers
http://www.re-museum.co.uk/research/family_history/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Engineers
I'll get back to you about Frank and the others, this is Frank's medal record card below, some of his service documents have also survived so I know this is the same person as the man on the census.
Ah, Sapper, ( Spr.), Frank Denton has two service numbers 522782 in the R.E. and he must also have been in the Territorial unit of the R.E. before WW1 because he also has a number 3319 in the R.E. (T)
He has the British War Medal and the Allied Victory Medal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_medals#World_War_I
I don't suppose that the medals of your maternal grandfather, Albert Denton, are still in the possession of the family, if they were, they would tell you his rank, service number, and unit.
Right click on the document pictures and then select open image or whatever equivalent command your browser uses, in order to display the image separately in full screen.
Right click on the document pictures and select the appropriate browser command in order to download and save them in picture format.
I was about to give you some more info on this, but thanks to the self appointed sheriff below and the rottweiler moderators on here, I'm gone, permanently, good luck with your search, oh and btw, mum was right about Harold.
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The number 522782 "belongs" to the 1st East Anglian Field Company, which geographically fits with Frank Denton from Bedfordshire. Most Territorial soldiers serving pre-war mainly served with units in their local area since the service was part time alongside a civilian job. Having said that I am not convinced his numbers are pre-war.
http://www.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_re.htm
By the way, Cashew, I believe we are not permitted to post images from subscription sites here.
Steve.
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Looking at other records the nearest man I can find for comparative purposes is 3621 and 522790 William Thomas Chessell Brown who enlisted in March 1916. This would suggest that the above Frank Denton enlisted in early 1916.
Note that though he may have trained with the East Anglian Royal Engineers, he could have served overseas with any R.E. unit.
Steve.
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Thank you Cashew and Stebie for your help, you have given me a lot to work on, not having much luck looking for my grandfather on the library Ancestry though, I don't think the library has the full package,but I will keep on trying
Thank you both again, best wishes Bethan
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The picture attached is 100% the person you are looking for, Albert James Denton, son of Hugh Denton and Sarah Dorrington of Bedford. The girls are Eva and Vera, I suspect Eva is your mum? I have never heard of him being in a regiment but I've not asked. Harold died in military training.
Albert is my paternal great grandad (husband of Polly) and my paternanal grandad was his son Kenneth John Denton.
Hope this helps x