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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: traynorm on Tuesday 06 May 14 01:16 BST (UK)

Title: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Tuesday 06 May 14 01:16 BST (UK)
Hello,

I am interested in chatting with anyone with info about Adelaide Pollock who was married to Arthur Cleaver about 1905. She was born about 1885 and a daughter of Hugh Pollock

Thank you,

Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 06 May 14 07:19 BST (UK)
Hiya Michael - neither the birth or the marriage are on www.freebmd.org.uk - so - can you tell us what country are we talking about please ??
added....ok ...Belfast ,Northern Ireland
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Tuesday 06 May 14 09:12 BST (UK)
Hello Garstonite,

Yesterday was just day one of my search !!............. Ive a long way to go over the next few months. I am going to write Adelaide Pollock's biography.

Her pilots licence says she was born 4 January 1889 in Bangor, Co. Down. I think she may have been generous with her age as the census for 1901 shows her to be 15 years old then. So its likely she was born closer to 1885.

The 1911 census shows that she aged 25 and was married 5 years with 2 children. But her husband, Arthur Cleaver is not listed on the same page ??

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated as all info at this stage will be very helpful.

Michael,
Dublin.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: garstonite on Tuesday 06 May 14 09:52 BST (UK)
I can only find ONE baptism in Bangor ,Down for Pollock
interestingly enough it is 1880
Alexander Pollock baptised 15th Aug 1880
father William Pollock
mother Isabella Patton Pollock

did Arthur / Adelaide by any chance name a child William or Isabella ??
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Tuesday 06 May 14 10:34 BST (UK)
Hello Garstonite,

Many thanks for such a prompt reply.

I'm afraid that is a different family. Adelaide's father was Hugh Pollock.

The 1911 census says she gave birth to 2 children but only one is living with her on that date.....Cecil Alwyn Cleaver aged 4 years.

One other response from here gives her husband Arthur living in Hendon, London in 1911.

They were married 5 years at the time. So as yet I don't know if they were already separated or just he was working there and she was rearing the children back in Bangor, Co. Down?.

Thank you again for your interest and help,

Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: Terry Mace on Tuesday 06 May 14 13:05 BST (UK)
Hello,
I have access to a few photos of Adelaide - see

http://mail.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/aviators/c#AFCleaver

http://mail.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/business-pleasure/14-business-and-pleasure/33-1930-aerial-tours?highlight=WyJjbGVhdmVyIl0=

Please contact  me if I can be of help!

Terry
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Tuesday 06 May 14 13:30 BST (UK)
Hello Terry,

Thank you very much for the info from "A Fleeting Place". One of the links I was unaware of so I appreciate that Terry.

I am researching Irish female pilots pre-WW2. There were few women that earned their licences in that period and Adelaide was one of them.

Is aviation one of your topics of interest ??

Best regards,

Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: Terry Mace on Tuesday 06 May 14 13:42 BST (UK)
Hi Michael,

Yes, 'A Fleeting Peace' is my website (as you may have guessed) - I'm always glad to hear that someone else is interested in between-the-wars aviators!

Other early female aviators are here: http://mail.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/women-pioneers

The photos I have are from the archive collection of the Royal Aero Club, and also from a 'home video' which a relative of Leonard Slatter sent to me - Leonard was flying down to the Cape in 1929, and there is a substantial section of the video in which Adelaide, her aeroplane and her pilot Donald Drew appear. I'll try to find the original(s). Anything else I can help with, please do let me know.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Tuesday 06 May 14 13:51 BST (UK)
Wow Terry,

There is a huge source of information on that web site. Congratulations !!. Well done

I would certainly be very interested in getting copies of any photographs featuring Adelaide. If the resolution is good enough for publication at a future date.......... and thats a long way off !!

In one of the pages you refer to her as a.k.a. Mrs Hylton Spenser Cleaver. Do you have any idea where the "Hylton" comes in her life ??. I know Ive only started on her but its the first mention I see of that name Hylton?

That would be terrific to see the original of the video footage of Adelaide on the flight to the Cape.

Thank you again Terry,

Best regards,

Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: Terry Mace on Tuesday 06 May 14 14:05 BST (UK)
Hi Michael,

Yes, the 'Hylton' is puzzling... I picked it up originally from 'Flight' Archive, e.g.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929 - 1037.html

but I don't know offhand why she might be called that.

The story of her 1929 flight is also here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929 - 1240.html

... presumably then you will also be covering Sophie Elliott-Lynn (who is the inspiration for a forthcoming film - http://www.capetowntogoodwood.com/ )
and Lady Bailey
and Sicele o'Brien
and Lady Daisy Finola Summers (b. 1896 in Dublin), http://mail.afleetingpeace.org/index.php/aviators/s#DFSomers
and I'm sure lots of others whom I've missed!
T
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Wednesday 07 May 14 23:57 BST (UK)
Hello Terry,

I see there was a UK author named Hylton Cleaver (1891-1961). Perhaps the author in Flight magazine was confused with the Christian names at time of writing the article ??

Thank you for the suggestion of female Irish pilots pre WW2. I will be referring to those you have mentioned and a few others. I estimate there were about 12 Irish ladies that earned a pilots licence between 1909 and 1939.

Sophie Elliot Lynn is well documented by Lindie Naughton in 'Lady Icarus' and Jane Falloon very well covered Lady Bailey in 'Throttle full open'.

So Adelaide Cleaver is my current research. ........... and Im just starting on a long road with her !!

Best regards,

Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: scotmum on Wednesday 14 May 14 10:48 BST (UK)
On statutory indexes, there is an 1885 birth in Newtownards district for an Adelaide Franklin Pollock. Correspondingly, there is a marriage entry on the indexes in 1905 for Belfast district, of an Adelaide Franklin Pollock that lists, amongst the possible spouses, an Arthur Spencer Cleaver.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: scotmum on Wednesday 14 May 14 10:54 BST (UK)
Could this be Adelaide at 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Bangor/Balloo_Lower/259959/

albeit no sign of her husband, she is noted as head, married 5 years and 2 children born and living. Only one child (born England) is listed with her in the house.

If you have access to search the 1911 English census (look-ups of which are not allowed on Rootschat), you are likely to find an Arthur Spencer Cleaver in Great Stanmore, Middlesex, that would seem to me to be her spouse.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: scotmum on Wednesday 14 May 14 11:04 BST (UK)
Ah, after searching for the above, I see others have already helped find some of the same info on this thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686034.0

To save duplication of effort, it is always most helpful, when you have started several threads, to provide links to each.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Wednesday 14 May 14 11:13 BST (UK)
Hello Scotmum,

Thank you for investigating and locating that information about Adelaide.

My apologies about not providing links. I am new to this site but I suppose that is not an adequate reason. I'm sorry. I'll correct that now thus saving others the unnecessary trouble you have gone to.

What you have located is correctly about Adelaide that I am researching. I have discovered that information but as in the thread about her father no doubt you will locate a wee nugget that I had not yet found ...!!!!

On the night of the census in 1911 Arthur Cleaver was in London with their other son Gordon Neil Spencer Cleaver.

I would very much be interested in addresses that Adelaide lived at while she was in Bangor and Belfast. The only ones I have so far are on the nights of the 2 census 1901 and 1911.

Does the entry you have for her marriage show any address or perhaps you could send me a link to the one you found please?

I am also trying to locate the schools and colleges she attended. I am awaiting a reply from Victoria College Belfast to see if that was one of them.

Many thanks again for your assistance and interest,

Regards,

Michael
Dublin.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Wednesday 14 May 14 11:34 BST (UK)
As I am following the life of Arthur and Adelaide Cleaver I have posted the following threads.....

Arthur at ...  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686034.new#new

Adelaide's father Hugh Pollock at ....  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=686033.new;topicseen#new

and also the family business Robinson & Cleaver at ...  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=467656.new#new

Any assistance with any of these family members would be very much appreciated.

Thank you,

Michael Traynor,
Dublin.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: jimbo09 on Tuesday 08 March 16 21:42 GMT (UK)
Hi, I recently received a copy of this newspaper obit for Adele Cleaver Aug 1939.
I hope it is still of interest
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Tuesday 08 March 16 22:57 GMT (UK)
Hello Jim,

Many thanks for forwarding that copy of Adelaide's obituary. I appreciate that very much. I got a copy of that from the Newsletter on a visit to the newspaper library in Belfast. But I am very grateful to you for taking the trouble to forward me the copy. Have you a particular interest in Adelaide ??

Best regards
Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 11 March 16 21:30 GMT (UK)
Just a few more snippets-

Pollock the right honourable Hugh MacDowell of 11 College Gardens and of 72 High Street and of "Arlington" 26 Windsor Avenue all in Belfast cabinet minister died 15 April 1937 at "Arlington" 26 Windsor Avenue aforesaid Probate Belfast 10 September to Hugh McDowell Pollock agent Robert Wallace solicitor and Robert John Walsh chartered accountant. Effects 25883 3s. 5d.
www.proni.gov.uk

Cleaver Cecil Alwyn Spencer of 2 Southwick Crescent Hyde Park county Middlesex died 11 January 1935 at Tabora Hospital Tabora Tanganyika Territory S.A. Probate London 9 April to sir James Frederick Cleaver knight and Arthur Spencer Cleaver lieutenant colonel H.M. army. Effects in Northern Ireland 6000. Re-sealed Belfast 21 October.

Cleaver Adelaide Franklin of 2 Southwick Crescent Hyde Park London and of The Sundial Beaulieu Road Cooden county Sussex married woman died 14 August 1939 at latter place Probate London 23 January 1940 to Gordon Neil Spencer Cleaver flying officer in R.A.F. Effects in Northern Ireland 185 14s. Re-sealed Belfast 9 August.

Cleaver Arthur Spencer of 1a Queens Gate Kensington Middlesex died 4 April 1941 at 35 Southernhay West Exeter Devon Probate Llandudno 25 July to Barclays Bank Limited and Gordon Neil Spencer Cleaver squadron leader in the R.A.F. Effects in Northern Ireland 7242 13s. Re-sealed Belfast 14 November.

Adelaide Franklin Pollock born 4 Jan.1896 (GRONI's database), mother- Marshall, also a twin brother Andrew Marshall Pollock
   birth registration- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBC6-WJ4
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Friday 11 March 16 22:07 GMT (UK)
Hello Aghadowey.

Thank you very much for all that information about Adelaide and her family. I appreciate your efforts to locate such a variety of data of different members of the family.

I am curious to know if you are connected to either the Pollock or Cleaver families or what is your relationship with either please?. Perhaps we can exchange additional information ?

Thank you for your interest in the life of this exciting pilot.
Kindest regards
Michael.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 12 March 16 10:42 GMT (UK)
I'm not researching either family.
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: jimbo09 on Saturday 12 March 16 22:46 GMT (UK)
Have you a particular interest in Adelaide ??

Best regards
Michael.
Her brother (I think), Marshall Pollock, married my wife's great Aunt !!
Title: Re: Adelaide Pollock Cleaver
Post by: traynorm on Sunday 13 March 16 16:41 GMT (UK)
I didn't realise there were any of the family living ..... are you in the Belfast area?

The only distant relative I found is living near Whitehead.

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