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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Meath => Topic started by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 02 September 14 17:51 BST (UK)

Title: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 02 September 14 17:51 BST (UK)
Is it really that difficult to research Irish ancestors?

I would really like to find out how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 02 September 14 18:49 BST (UK)
It very much depends on the date you want to research, once you get to the early 1800s it can prove very difficult or impossible to get further back, on the up side there is a lot of free resources and Certs are quite cheap in comparison to other countries.
If you give us some names and dates we should be able to point you in the right direction, if it's not too early.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 03 September 14 11:35 BST (UK)
Hi

Thomas Callaghan was my 3x great grandfather and he was born c1848 in Navan, Meath according to some research I did a while ago.

He married Ellen Melia on 25 July 1867 in Oristown, Meath and they had five children between c1870 and c1879.

I was in touch with two sisters in Australia who originally came from Ireland. 

Their great grandfather Thomas Callaghan was the younger brother of my 2x great grandfather Michael.

They told me that Thomas senior died in 1904 but I haven't been able to confirm this or find any other information about him.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 03 September 14 12:29 BST (UK)
Have you forgotten that you've already a topic asking for help with Thomas Callaghan and his family?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=438381.msg3018807#msg3018807

Also- http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=526528.msg3812409#msg3812409

and a very long one here-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=426208.0
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 03 September 14 12:45 BST (UK)
I obviously did forget, sorry for reposting :-[
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 03 September 14 13:32 BST (UK)
Better to stick with one topic to keep all the information together and let everyone see what's already been found.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 03 September 14 19:03 BST (UK)
As you already know Thomas was born before Civil Registration so he doesn't have a birth cert.
You have already searched for him on RootsIreland with no result, they are still adding to their records so it may be worth trying again every so often.
You found a church record for Thomas and Ellen's marriage is that correct? 25 July 1867 but no parents named on it.
But it's not showing in the Civil Reg on FamilySearch.
As I see it your choices are,
A. Go to Dublin and search the GRO indexes yourself.
B. Go to Dublin and search the parish records in the National Library
C. Hope Irish Genealogy get their Civil Records back and maybe get the marriage there. http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
D. Hope the parish records in the National Library go online someday.
but you may have to accept the records simply don't exist, which is often the case for these dates.

Did you keep in contact with ForeverEnding from this thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=438381.9
might be worth finding out if he found anything since.
Good Luck.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 04 September 14 11:42 BST (UK)
Going to Dublin or any other archive is non starter I'm afraid. 

I am a wheeelchair user and live miles away from anywhere in this country that might be able to help with my other families I am researching.  Access can be a major headache.

I am not in contact with anyone else regarding my Irish ancestors.

Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 04 September 14 12:21 BST (UK)
I can see your problem, looks like you will have to join the rest of us in the waiting room.
This is a very good sight to get news of new record releases.
http://www.irishgenealogynews.com also the Irish Genealogy Toolkit link you can find on the right of the site is worth looking at.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 04 September 14 14:27 BST (UK)
Thanks for the link :)
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 15 July 15 11:32 BST (UK)
Yesterday I was able to confirm that my 3x great grandfather Thomas Callaghan married Ellen Melia on 25 July 1867 thanks to the National Library of Ireland putting some of the registers online.

I still need to confirm his father's name so I think the best way is to get the marriage certificate from Ireland unless there is another way around it.

I only have a approximate year of birth and death for him so far so I am going to look at the registers again.  I couldn't see him in the Navan registers so he must have been baptised somewhere else.  He married in Oristown.  I assume this was his wife's parish.

I have a couple of other threads about my Callaghan ancestors.  Please can someone delete those for me?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Researching Irish ancestors
Post by: gaffy on Wednesday 15 July 15 13:55 BST (UK)

... Yesterday I was able to confirm that my 3x great grandfather Thomas Callaghan married Ellen Melia on 25 July 1867 thanks to the National Library of Ireland putting some of the registers online.

I still need to confirm his father's name so I think the best way is to get the marriage certificate from Ireland unless there is another way around it ...


Out of interest, what RC parish were they married in?  The issue you still face is finding a civil marriage record.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 15 July 15 14:56 BST (UK)
I gave this information in my previous post ???

They married in Oristown, Navan, Meath on 25 July 1867.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 15 July 15 14:57 BST (UK)
I know registration didn't start till 1864; is that for births, marriages and deaths?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 15 July 15 18:14 BST (UK)
Registration of births, deaths and Catholic marriages started in 1864- it's 1845 for non-Catholic marriages.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 16 July 15 12:26 BST (UK)
My family were Catholic.  I have been sent a form so I can apply for Thomas and Ellen's marriage certificate.  At least then I'll know who his father was (I hope :-\).

Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 16 July 15 16:10 BST (UK)
Gibby

What 'from' have you been sent and by whom ?

You still need the ref numbers etc to get a marriage cert !

Tara
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 16 July 15 16:53 BST (UK)
There is a petty session record for you 2 x Great Grandfather Michael Callaghan in 1900.

Have you seen it ?

Tara
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 16 July 15 18:22 BST (UK)

I gave this information in my previous post ???

They married in Oristown, Navan, Meath on 25 July 1867.


From your emoticon I know you think that I'm probably being a bit thick here, but I'm struggling to find the 1867 marriage you found on the NLI website.  I also struggled to find a civil marriage.

For RC marriages under Oristown (variant forms Donapatrick/Donaghpatrick/Kilbarry), I can only see marriages from 1763 - 1842 (with 3 gaps), on microfilm 04186/02. Under Navan, I can see marriages from 4 April 1853 to 21 October 1868 (microfilm 04181/06), but I can't see the 1867 one you found.

I just wanted to see the original record (as I suspect many folk will want to in responding to posters about Irish genealogy from this point on), my worry is that I'm doing something fundamentally stupid in searching the NLI website, could you or any of the regulars (you know who you are) post a link to the marriage or provide the microfilm number or tell me where I'm going wrong, either in respect of the RC Church marriage or the Civil Marriage?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: taramcdsmall on Thursday 16 July 15 18:47 BST (UK)
No civil marriage was ever found.

I know that much.

It was the only thing I looked up ~ I didn't look up the NLI as I'm only on my tablet !

Tara
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 16 July 15 19:49 BST (UK)
The 1867 marriage is mentioned on a previous topic but the source seems to be 'a website'
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=438381
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Saturday 18 July 15 16:43 BST (UK)
I know what information I need for the marriage certificate.

I haven't seen the petty session record.  Where do I find this?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 18 July 15 17:42 BST (UK)
I haven't seen the petty session record.  Where do I find this?

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/2487287
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Sunday 19 July 15 16:56 BST (UK)
Thanks for that.  I'll have a look :)
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Sunday 19 July 15 17:11 BST (UK)
The petty session record is NOT for my ancestor.

He was born in Navan, Meath not Cork.

I have stated where he was born earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 19 July 15 17:16 BST (UK)
Which entry are you looking at?

There's one Michael Callaghan 1900 Meath here-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKS5-PW45
another here-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3K-JYN2

Might be other possibilities so you should go back and check again.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Sunday 19 July 15 17:30 BST (UK)
My apologies :-[

I looked at the first 1900 record I came to.

I'll go and check the other links you sent, thanks.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Sunday 19 July 15 17:36 BST (UK)
The third link is about my ancestor.  Just trying to read it now.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Monday 20 July 15 11:48 BST (UK)
Had a quick read of the petty session record last night.

The name and area fit (Navan used to be called Butterstream) and so does the age of Michael's son.

How do I find out more?  There must be tons of people with same name as my ancestor in Meath.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 20 July 15 17:17 BST (UK)
Only one Michael Callaghan on that street at that time.

Tara
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 20 July 15 17:29 BST (UK)
Not sure if these are related or coincidental.

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2009/03/11/37038-recent-deaths-140309

Tara
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 23 July 15 12:09 BST (UK)
Just back online after receiving a new router.

I printed off the petty session record last night so I could perhaps read it more easily.

Thanks for clarifying the address for me.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 23 July 15 12:12 BST (UK)
Thanks very much for the link.

Only had a quick read but it sounds like this lady is related to my family.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:03 BST (UK)
Delia was married to Christopher Callaghan who was the nephew of my 2x great grandfather Michael. 

Christy, as he was known to the family was the son of Thomas, younger brother of Michael.

I am now looking for the death notices of Christy's brothers.

Thomas Vincent (1903-1914).  Died in childhood possibly due to an illness.
James Gerrard (1905-1996)
Michael Joseph (1910)
John James (1912-1980)

Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: gaffy on Thursday 23 July 15 15:20 BST (UK)

I gave this information in my previous post ???

They married in Oristown, Navan, Meath on 25 July 1867.


From your emoticon I know you think that I'm probably being a bit thick here, but I'm struggling to find the 1867 marriage you found on the NLI website.  I also struggled to find a civil marriage.

For RC marriages under Oristown (variant forms Donapatrick/Donaghpatrick/Kilbarry), I can only see marriages from 1763 - 1842 (with 3 gaps), on microfilm 04186/02. Under Navan, I can see marriages from 4 April 1853 to 21 October 1868 (microfilm 04181/06), but I can't see the 1867 one you found.

I just wanted to see the original record (as I suspect many folk will want to in responding to posters about Irish genealogy from this point on), my worry is that I'm doing something fundamentally stupid in searching the NLI website, could you or any of the regulars (you know who you are) post a link to the marriage or provide the microfilm number or tell me where I'm going wrong, either in respect of the RC Church marriage or the Civil Marriage?

Hi there, I wonder if you missed my previous post at reply #18, can you direct me to the 1867 marriage?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 23 July 15 15:44 BST (UK)
I replied to your question a few days ago.  Perhaps you missed my reply?

I have been offline for a couple of days as I have had to wait for a new router.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 23 July 15 16:33 BST (UK)
I can't get the attachment small enough to post so you'll just have to take my word that I have the information from the parish register of Oristown, Meath.  Sounds to me like you think I'm making it up >:(
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 23 July 15 23:05 BST (UK)
Well, I can't see that you've given any more detail about the marriage after reply #18 either  :-\  We are all trying to help so I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for details of information you've already found especially in this case where it's not been possible to find the marriage in the civil index.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Friday 24 July 15 00:47 BST (UK)
If this link works you should be able to see it on the right hand page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635215#page/55/mode/1up
Film 04186/03
Which says only baptisms but has marriages 1848 - 1880
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Friday 24 July 15 01:06 BST (UK)
I tried the Civil Registration for several of the names on that page and I haven't found any yet.
Not that they are easy to read!
Is Navan the correct district?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Friday 24 July 15 01:44 BST (UK)
Finally found one Nicholas Flood and Ellen Duffy 1869
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/b2d72810485409
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/81ff9510489596
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 24 July 15 11:22 BST (UK)
The marriage took place in Oristown, Meath which I assume is the bride's parish.

I will try to crop the image I have downloaded for this marriage and post it here.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 24 July 15 11:31 BST (UK)
I have resized the image but it's probably too small to see now ???
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 24 July 15 11:32 BST (UK)
Not bad :)

You can clearly see the marriage on 25 July 1867.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Friday 24 July 15 12:16 BST (UK)
The marriage took place in Oristown, Meath which I assume is the bride's parish.

I will try to crop the image I have downloaded for this marriage and post it here.

Did the link to it I posted in Reply #38 not work?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Friday 24 July 15 12:34 BST (UK)
What's the point in following a link to information I have already?

A previous poster seems to think I have plucked the marriage date out of thin air so I have provided them with solid evidence of the marriage by posting an image from the register I got from the National Library of Ireland.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Friday 24 July 15 12:54 BST (UK)
The link was provided for those of us trying to be of help.
It is general practice to follow up by finding the information already provided in order to see if there are other clues and to confirm information.
That is how many of us do it and we do it to help.
In this case, searches had been made without success.
Out of curiosity, because you had found them, a poster asked where you found them. There is nothing sinister in the request at all and no-one doubting your information.
You kindly then posted the information after the link so we have seen it twice. ;)
It's great that you have found them!
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: gaffy on Friday 24 July 15 13:22 BST (UK)

If this link works you should be able to see it on the right hand page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635215#page/55/mode/1up
Film 04186/03
Which says only baptisms but has marriages 1848 - 1880


Thanks Sinann, so the reason I couldn't find it is that the register information is incomplete, ie. the marriages aren't mentioned.  A useful lesson going forward.

Edited to add: Sinann, have you reported that back to nli under their "Send us feedback" page? If not, I would like to if you don't mind...
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: gaffy on Friday 24 July 15 13:29 BST (UK)

I have resized the image but it's probably too small to see now ???


Thanks Gibby1968, as said above, a lesson learned regarding the completeness of the register information.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Friday 24 July 15 14:15 BST (UK)

If this link works you should be able to see it on the right hand page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635215#page/55/mode/1up
Film 04186/03
Which says only baptisms but has marriages 1848 - 1880


Thanks Sinann, so the reason I couldn't find it is that the register information is incomplete, ie. the marriages aren't mentioned.  A useful lesson going forward.

Edited to add: Sinann, have you reported that back to nli under their "Send us feedback" page? If not, I would like to if you don't mind...

I hadn't even noticed the feedback feature, so you go right ahead with that.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Friday 24 July 15 14:28 BST (UK)
What's the point in following a link to information I have already?


What Heywood said and to save you the bother of altering the image which was too large.

Getting back on track, it would appear that many of the marriages on that page are not showing on the Civil Registry, so what does everyone think, could we be dealing with a priest who did not send in the information or is this something that would be worth asking the GRO about?
As at least one does have a Civil Cert why not all the rest?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 25 July 15 04:00 BST (UK)
I think the scenario of the priest not sending them in has to be a distinct possibility, nothing is coming close for Thomas and Ellen in my searches and I've gone beyond Navan registration district.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Saturday 25 July 15 11:40 BST (UK)
Why are you finding it hard to believe I have the correct marriage?  The information came from the National Library of Ireland website.

I will be sending off for the marriage certificate this week as I have been able to confirm the marriage date.  I am hoping it will tell me both fathers names so I may be able to get back a little further.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 25 July 15 11:59 BST (UK)
Why are you finding it hard to believe I have the correct marriage?  The information came from the National Library of Ireland website.


No one finds it hard to believe you have the correct marriage, they never did, we just wanted to see it to see if there was anything else to learn from the page it is on.
And we have, almost all the marriages which took place on dates before and after it are missing from the index.
The question is why are they missing?
This may help you if the GRO say they can't find the Cert.
Hopefully they will find it, fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Saturday 25 July 15 16:34 BST (UK)
http://registers.nli.ie/
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Saturday 25 July 15 16:57 BST (UK)
Let's hope that GRO have the details.

It's so odd that all those marriages are not in the published indexes.

Good luck

Heywood
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: gaffy on Monday 27 July 15 14:45 BST (UK)

If this link works you should be able to see it on the right hand page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635215#page/55/mode/1up
Film 04186/03
Which says only baptisms but has marriages 1848 - 1880


Thanks Sinann, so the reason I couldn't find it is that the register information is incomplete, ie. the marriages aren't mentioned.  A useful lesson going forward.

Edited to add: Sinann, have you reported that back to nli under their "Send us feedback" page? If not, I would like to if you don't mind...

As an aside, after providing feedback to nli on Sinann's find (ie. that the register information for film 04186/03 Oristown only mentions baptisms, but also has marriages 1848 - 1880), I received a pleasant email back from nli saying that they would correct that.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, let's hope they follow up.  :) 

 
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 11:42 BST (UK)
I am trying to find a Judge Lentane who is mentioned in the death notice of Delia Callaghan.

She worked for him as a cook along with a couple of Irish politicians who I have managed to find on Google. When I Google Lentane alternatives come up as always but so far I haven't been able to find him. Maybe the article has misprinted his name?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 28 July 15 12:17 BST (UK)
Hello again,
When and where did Delia die?

Heywood
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 12:28 BST (UK)
Delia died on 5 March 2009 and was living at St Mary's Park, Navan, Meath at the time of her death.

I'm trying to come forward with the family at the moment as going back is proving a little difficult.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 28 July 15 13:36 BST (UK)
Delia Callaghan-
http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2009/03/11/37038-recent-deaths-140309

Added- perhaps the surname is Lentaigne.

http://www.thepeerage.com/p2196.htm

"Hon. Mr Justice Lentaigne, Burma High Court and Stackallen, Navan, Eire."
son Walter- www.unithistories.com/officers/IndianArmy_officers_L01.html
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 14:09 BST (UK)
Very interesting :)
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 14:12 BST (UK)
Another person mentioned in the same article is Count John McCormack.

Wonder how she came to work for such high profile people?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 14:14 BST (UK)
She worked for Sir Alexander Maguire and Taoiseach William T Cosgrave.  I have found information on the net about these men.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 14:28 BST (UK)
Delia had a visit from the Bishop of Meath on the day he celebrated the silver jubilee of his ordination as a bishop;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Smith_(bishop)
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 28 July 15 14:34 BST (UK)
That was mentioned in her obituary (I posted link earlier) but the wikipedia page you posted isn't really an entry for the Bishop of Meath.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 28 July 15 15:17 BST (UK)
I don't know what you're looking at, but the page is about Dr Michael Smith who visited Delia in 1988 when he was celebrating his 25th anniversary as bishop of Meath.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 28 July 15 15:39 BST (UK)
I don't know what you're looking at, but the page is about Dr Michael Smith who visited Delia in 1988 when he was celebrating his 25th anniversary as bishop of Meath.

What I see is- Michael Smith (bishop ... Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Michael Smith (bishop in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings. ...
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 04 August 15 14:42 BST (UK)
Just wanted to let you know that my marriage certificate application form was posted last Friday.  Not sure how long it will take to arrive or when I'll get my certificate.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Tuesday 01 September 15 15:33 BST (UK)
While waiting to hear about my certificate I had to email them twice after sending off my form and not hearing anything. 

I got in touch the the Irish FHS of which I am a member and was told that they would phone on my behalf to see what had happened, all I had to do was give the same information that I put on the form.

Anyway, today I finally got a reply from the GRO in Ireland.

No trace of the marriage certificate can be found which is very odd as it was listed here http://registers.nli.ie/ and matches the information I found on another Irish website some time ago.  Surely the register can't be wrong?

Not sure what to do now.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Wednesday 02 September 15 10:58 BST (UK)
This is the reply I got from the Irish GRO this morning after I replied to their message yesterday;

Thank you for your e-mail – is it possible that the details you found may refer to a Church Record of this Marriage rather than the Civil Records that we hold..?

An extensive search for the period stated was carried out , if you have any further queries , please contact me at any stage..

Not sure what to do next as I really want to find out the fathers names on both sides.

All I know is that they married in Oristown, Meath in a RC church.  No idea which one  ???

Any suggestions please?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 02 September 15 11:13 BST (UK)
All I know is that they married in Oristown, Meath in a RC church.  No idea which one  ???

Presumably it was the Oristown Parish Church- marriage registers 1763-1842
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0941
Scroll down to links at bottom of page for later dates

Added- see that you've already been given this information on previous page of this thread
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 10 September 15 14:54 BST (UK)
A few days ago I decided to see if I could find where Thomas and Ellen married and I came across the website http://www.oristownparish.com/home and sent them a message.  This is the reply I got today;

Dear Janet,

Regretfully, our records here in Oristown go back to 1890 only. We have not got your requested records here.

Regards

Maria Keegan

Secretary

PS I meant to post a message the other day but I've been a bit busy and forget which day I sent the message to them.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Thursday 22 September 16 11:43 BST (UK)
I am finally getting somewhere with my Irish family.

Thanks to many Irish records going online recently I have been able to find the deaths and burials for my 3x great grandparents Thomas and Ellen Callaghan ;D

I am so chuffed to find this information after searching for them for so long.

I don't even have to bother getting the death certificates as all the information is on the register.

All I have to do now is find out where they are buried and then I will go back and see if I can find their marriage.  I don't think that will be so easy nor will finding their parents.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Sunday 23 October 16 15:52 BST (UK)
I am unable to confirm Thomas' birth or marriage as I think they took place before registration began in Ireland :(
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 23 October 16 16:49 BST (UK)
I am unable to confirm Thomas' birth or marriage as I think they took place before registration began in Ireland :(

Do you mean this Thomas?
Quote from: Gibby1968
Thomas Callaghan was my 3x great grandfather and he was born c1848 in Navan, Meath according to some research I did a while ago.
He married Ellen Melia on 25 July 1867 in Oristown, Meath and they had five children between c1870 and c1879.

He was born before civil registration of births but from 1864 ALL marriages should have been registered.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 October 16 16:56 BST (UK)
but as we already discovered quite some time ago his marriage was never registered

Getting back on track, it would appear that many of the marriages on that page are not showing on the Civil Registry, so what does everyone think, could we be dealing with a priest who did not send in the information or is this something that would be worth asking the GRO about?
As at least one does have a Civil Cert why not all the rest?
This is the reply I got from the Irish GRO this morning after I replied to their message yesterday;

Thank you for your e-mail – is it possible that the details you found may refer to a Church Record of this Marriage rather than the Civil Records that we hold..?

An extensive search for the period stated was carried out , if you have any further queries , please contact me at any stage..

There is no marriage cert because it appears the priest did not register the marriages on that page of the church register.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 October 16 17:05 BST (UK)
You could perhaps try RootsIreland, they sometimes have more information on the marriages than the NLI microfilms.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Gibby1968 on Monday 24 October 16 11:35 BST (UK)
The only other Irish website I have tried gives me a marriage date of 25 July 1867 in Oristown, Meath.  I am unable to confirm this information.

As I now have 1840 as the year of birth for Thomas I thought it would be easy to find his parents.  I think registration of births started well after this date so I will not be able to find out who they were.  I was hoping the marriage would clarify things.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 24 October 16 12:23 BST (UK)
PLEASE READ INFORMATION THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN POSTED so that we don't have to keep repeating the same things over and over again.

As I now have 1840 as the year of birth for Thomas I thought it would be easy to find his parents.  I think registration of births started well after this date so I will not be able to find out who they were.
Civil registration of births started in 1864!

The only other Irish website I have tried gives me a marriage date of 25 July 1867 in Oristown, Meath.  I am unable to confirm this information.
What 'Irish website'? LDS? Catholic Parish Registers? other?
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Monday 24 October 16 13:44 BST (UK)
I don't know if we have already had the link to the marriage but it is here

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635215#page/55/mode/1up

Ancestry indexes show names as Collohan and Metia.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 October 16 14:26 BST (UK)
I don't know if we have already had the link to the marriage but it is here

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635215#page/55/mode/1up

Ancestry indexes show names as Collohan and Metia.

Reply38 and 42 page 5
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Monday 24 October 16 15:40 BST (UK)
 ::)

Thank you, Sinann. I should have read further back but thought from Gibby's latest post that it wasn't yet proven.
I do remember this thread from last year and posting on it! However, it is now refreshed  ;)
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 October 16 16:16 BST (UK)
I was killing time at work yesterday so read it all, I usually find that a bit tedious and only skim through.
Now it's in danger of going around in circles so to sum up.

The marriage of Thomas Callaghan and Ellen Melia on the 25 July 1867 has been found in the NLI parish register but the GRO has no record of it therefore there is no civil cert.
So if anyone can find a church record of it that names the parents, please don't keep it to yourself.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 October 16 16:23 BST (UK)
Hi

Thomas Callaghan was my 3x great grandfather and he was born c1848 in Navan, Meath according to some research I did a while ago.

He married Ellen Melia on 25 July 1867 in Oristown, Meath and they had five children between c1870 and c1879.

I was in touch with two sisters in Australia who originally came from Ireland. 

Their great grandfather Thomas Callaghan was the younger brother of my 2x great grandfather Michael.

They told me that Thomas senior died in 1904 but I haven't been able to confirm this or find any other information about him.

Thanks.

Now that the civil Certs are online it may be worth following up on these children.
I have a grandfather as informant on a couple of childrens birth Certs, he is named as occupier of the house.
It would also give an address which might help.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 24 October 16 16:52 BST (UK)
Perhaps OP could list the names of the 'five children between c1870 and c1879' to save us wasting time. Only a few are in Extracted Irish Births on LDS site-
Margaret (1874) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5VJ-J7D
Josephine (1876) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR9M-C22
Ellen (1879) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQ3-3PF
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Monday 24 October 16 17:17 BST (UK)
The children are here in this thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=526528.


According to the website http://www.rootsireland.ie/ Michael was born/christened on 19 October 1870 at St Mary's, Navan, Meath, Ireland.

No birth certificate was found for Michael so I'm wondering if his birth was before registration began.

He was the son of Thomas and Ellen Callaghan (formerly Melia) who were born in Navan c1848 and c1850 respectively.

Michael's siblings are;

Margaret (9 March 1874)
Christina (2 March 1876).  No christening or birth can be found for this child so I'm wondering if Christina and Josephine are one and the same.
Josephine (2 March 1876).
Thomas (1877).  No birth certificate found for this child.
Ellen (30 August 1879).  All born in Meath.

I found more baptisms earlier, I think, but presumed that Gibby has now updated since the new record collections.
Title: Re: Researching how far my Callaghan ancestors from Navan, Meath go back
Post by: heywood on Monday 24 October 16 17:20 BST (UK)
Yes, there is a Maria (Mary?) 21 November 1872