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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sugarfizzle on Friday 26 September 14 18:43 BST (UK)
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This is a fairly long post, in case anyone doesn't want to read all of it, this is what I am asking.
I have found the following 'Unassisted arrivals' record -
TOOGOOD Mr, Mrs, 3 Sons, 2 Daus, Ship 'Marian', P, 23 Oct 1852, London, 1279 & Serv in SMH
STEPHENS J Mr Ship 'Marian', P, 23 Oct 1852, London SMH
Are these records available anywhere online, is there likely to be any further information on the actual record (name? age? occupation?) Also, should be an Ann Keast on the same journey.
Further background
In March, I started the following topic, the general conclusion was that I would probably not be able to find the relevant passenger record for John Stephens.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=681087.0
I have got a further with this, mainly thanks to Trove.
Newspaper articles show him in Sydney in January 1853
Empire (Sydney, NSW : 1850 - 1875)
Friday 18 February 1853 P2
John Stevens, billiard marker, was absent from his duties because he was a witness in a case at the Police Court at the suit of a female named Ann Keast
Mr Alfred Toogood, of Pitt and King Streets, publican, hired the defendant in London.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60136665?searchTerm=ann%20keast&searchLimits=l-decade=185|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-year=1853
The relevant cases for Ann Keast show that she was also taken on in London in July 1852, her passage of £25 was paid by Mr Toogood, and that she attended to Mrs Toogood on the journey to Australia.
Online family trees show Alfred and Ann Toogood and son Sydney Collins Toogood, born 11 Aug 1852 'on the voyage from London to Sydney' (plus brothers and sisters as per shipping record).
I have found the following record for the Toogoods and a J Stephens (but no record for Ann Keast)
TOOGOOD Mr, Mrs, 3 Sons, 2 Daus, Ship 'Marian' P, 23 Oct 1852, London, 1279 & Serv in SMH
STEPHENS J Mr Ship 'Marian' P, 23 Oct 1852, London SMH
Are these records available anywhere online, plus/minus further details?
Margaret
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Hi Maragaret,
There is this http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1852/10/034mar.htm :(
12 Unnamed people in steerage :(
cheers,
Ros
Perhaps the fact that it wasn't an immigrant/passenger ship explains why it isn't digitised on http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316
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Hi Margaret,
Nothing about the shipping records but from the Sydney City Archives we find that there was an Alfred Toogood whom had a public house as early as 1845 in Pitt Street Sydney.
The assessment for 1845 in the Bourke Ward.
307 Pitt St, landlord, Alfred Toogood, public house, brick, slated roof, 3 stories, 9 rooms, groos annual value, 300 pounds ( freehold).
Gerry
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Well found, Margaret - such a long search.
I guess Ann KEAST is the un-named Servant with the Toogoods.
Judith
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Interesting, when Anne Keast ran away from Alfred Toogood she lived with her Aunty so she had a relative in Sydney!
Gerry
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In 1848 Mr and Mrs Alfred TOOGOOD and 2 daughters are returning to London ... ???
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12893075
But I think (???) this is the Alfred TOOGOOD who was a convict arriving on the Georgiana in 1833 and received ticket of leave in 1841 and then married Ann Collins in NSW in 1842
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au
regards,
Ros
adding : I see this couple had births of children in NSW
Georgiana C ;D in 1847
William A in 1848
Sarah E in 1845
whoops I'd better read through other threads - probably duplicating
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Alfred Toogood and family appear on the 1851 England Census as residing at 17 Murray St in the Tower Hamlets, London.
John Toogood, 36, Colonial Export Merchant, born Coventry. Warwick
Ann Toogood, wife, 35, born Coventry, Warwick.
Catherine Toogood, dau, 4, born Sydney.
Alfred W Toogood, son, 1, born Shoreditch, Middlesex.
Samuel H Toogood, son, 5 mo, born, Shoredirch, Middlesex.
James G Toogood, son, 5 mo, born Shoreditch, Middlesex.
Sarah Toogood, niece, 19, born Coventry.
Charlotte Parbridge, 17, servant, born Lee, Essex.
On the return trip to Sydney in October 1852 there were 3 sons and 2 daughters.
Alfred, Samuel & James born in London.
Catherine born in Sydney and one other daughter probably born in 1851 or 1852 in London!
Gerry
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There seems to be another couple living in the same area and having children at around the same time:
Baptisms with parents John and Ann TOOGOOD,
At St Anne's Limehouse:
George TOOGOOD, born 20 Dec 1847, baptised 4 Jan, 1849, living at Limehouse;
father's occ: labourer.
Two baptisms at St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green, borough of Tower Hamlets,
father's occupation shown as "carman"
Joseph TOOGOOD, born 5 July, 1852, baptised 1 August, 1852, living at 4 Suffolk St
Henry William TOOGOOD, b 29 April 1850, baptised 7 July 1850, living at 13 Kings St, Mile End Old Town
These don't look as though they are related, but I'm not seeing baptisms for the other TOOGOOD children.
Judith
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This may help ... it does include references
http://australianroyalty.net.au/individual.php?pid=I22030&ged=purnellmccord.ged
regards,
Ros
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;D ;D
Many thanks to one and all!
Found the following as well -
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12941046
Gerry - 3 sons and 2 daughters - William Alfred (possibly born in Sydney, possibly born in London) Samuel Henry born in London, Sydney Collins born on the journey (James Giles died in Shoreditch Jun qtr 1851)
Georgiana Catherine born in Sydney (one other daughter recorded elsewhere as Sarah Ellen, born Sydney, but not present in 1851 census)
Ros - You have a record for William Alfred born in Sydney, 1848, 1851 census says born in London, one online tree says he was born in London, another says Sydney - take your pick! If parents plus just the 2 daughters (Georgiana and Sarah) came to England in 1848, I would perhaps say William was born in London, but there is a birth record in NSW in 1848?
It would seem that Alfred Toogood was involved in the Coventry riots, sent to Van Diemens Land in 1832.
He was assigned a new master, a Mr Raine, and in 1838 he was shipwrecked. Nine passengers, including Mr Raine drowned. Survivors walked six days into Twofold Bay. Alfred was then selected to walk overland to Sydney, which took him over 2 weeks.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12863192
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/32158687
His older brother William Toogood, a picture of respectability in later years, was convicted of larceny in 1822, sent to Australia for life. He must have been pleased to see his brother arrive 10 years later. ''Publicans Records show William held Licenses for Rainbow Hotel, Rainbow Tavern,Toogoods Hotel, Rose and Crown, Golden Fleece Hotel & Masonic Hall. His first license was in 1839, several years before his Absolute Pardon in 1843.''
A fascinating family (see how easy it is to get side-tracked at this hobby!)
Thank you all again for your input
Margaret
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Yes Margaret here's the baptism of William Alfred TOOGOOD referring to his birth in Oct 1848
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCG-QMG
He was christened in 1853. (I was about to suggest that the first William may have died but no)
Perhaps a newborn baby in arms wasn't counted as a passenger on 1848 voyage.
The wonderful improved ;D NSW BDM site http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html is unavailable at the moment
regards,
Ros
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Hang on they departed in January 1848.
So William wasn't born in Australia but I guess his later baptism caused them to record it on NSW BDM . So probably recorded both in Australia and UK and causing all the confusion
cheers,
Ros
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I was just about to say that, Roz! According to the paper they set off for London on 24 Jan 1848, he was born 12 Oct 1848.
There is no corresponding birth registration in England, unless it was delayed for some reason (Alfred may not have realised that he had to register the birth, having left England in 1832) - there was a William Alfred Toogood birth registered Dec qtr 1849 in Shoreditch.
Margaret
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It was a job lot :). Sydney Collins TOOGOOD was also christened on 10 April 1853
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCG-QMR
cheers,
Ros
adding : Sarah Ellen TOOGOOD christening https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTDB-TBK
Georgiana Catherine TOOGOOD christening https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCR-6JW
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Great to see two brother convicts do well in Aus.
An English newspaper of the day puts Alfred at the riots with many others but only a few got charged. If Alfred got life I'm surprised he could go back to England for a visit.
Thanks for the family update.
In 1851 Sarah Toogood, 9, born in Sydney Australia, was a pupil at a school loacted at 'Back of Town' in Wye, Kent.
Gerry
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Thanks for that, Ros and Gerry.
This time yesterday I had never heard of the Toogood family, now I feel I know them fairly well! If it wasn't for them, my quest for John Stephens immigration to NSW would have remained unsolved, far too many records with no full names/ages/occupations. Now I know that this J Stephens is 'mine', and the servant in steerage has to be Anne Keast, in spite of her being unnamed.
John left a wife and young family in England, the youngest one possibly yet to be born, or was very young (no birth registration found, aged 8, 18 in 1861 and 1871 census). There is a possibility that John was not his father, but 3 older brothers name him when they get married. They were born 1842, 1846 and 1847.
Margaret
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A quick update for anyone that helped me out and/or followed this thread from 2014.
Autosomal DNA testing has given me a match with one of the Australian descendants of John Robert Tuthill aka Stephens, who worked as a billiard table maker in Sydney.
It is very good to have this rather complicated branch of my tree confirmed. The person I matched up with was extremely surprised, she had no idea of the connection.
Anybody with any brickwalls or uncertainties in the last 150 - 200 years or so, please consider autosomal DNA testing.
Margaret