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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: Dannemois on Wednesday 31 December 14 18:52 GMT (UK)
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I wish you all at Rootschat Best Wishes for 2015
I would greatly appreciate help. I have the birth certificate for Thomas Edwards born 2 Jan 1845 at Cammerfach, Caron is Clawdd, Tregaron, Cardiganshire. Father Edward Edwards, occupation hosier, mother Winifred Edwards, formerly Jones. I understand Caron is Clawdd is the old parish but for the life of me I can not find any reference to Cammerfach.
Also listed on Genuki Pigot & Co. South Wales directory 1844, for Tregaron there are two residents listed, namely Edward Edwards, hosier and Nathaniel Edwards, hosier. With the same surname and occupation, could they be related? I wonder if someone could please do a look-up on the 1841 census for Tregaon.
Regards, Roy
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The GenUKI page on Tregaron says:
Places, villages, farms etc within Tregaron parish as shown on the online parish map from the CD of Historic Parishes of England and Wales: an Electronic Map of Boundaries before 1850 with a Gazetteer and Metadata [computer file]. (Kain, R.J.P., Oliver, R.R.). (Extracted by Dewi Evans)
Argoed Ystrad 38A; Tref-lyn 38B; Blaen Caron 38C; Tre Cefel 38D; Croes + Berwyn 38E; Blaen Aeron 38F
Abercoed; Afon Berwyn; Afon Groes; Argoed; Banc; Bryn Hownant; Bryn Lloi; Cairns; Cammer Fawr; Carn Felen; Carn Fawr; Caron-is-Clawdd; Castell; Castell Rhyfel; Craig; Clogan; Craig Esgeirydd; Craig Pont Shiri; Craig y Ffridd; Crynfryn bychan; Cwn yr Olchfa; Cwys yr Ychain-banog; Cyrtau; Derlwyn; Derw Garon; Diffwys; Dildre; Esgair Fraith; Ffos y Cenglau; Ford; Glan Brennig; Glan yr afon uchaf; Golf Links; Goppa Isaf; Groes Fawr; Llan Berwyn; Llwyn yr Hwch; Maes Glas; Maes Llyn; Mill; Ochor; Pant Rhedwyn; Pant Shiri; Pant y crat; Pen Llanerch; Pen y Bont; Pont Einon; Sanatorium; School; Sunnyhill; Tan yr Allt; Tan y Craig; Teifi; Tre Cefel; Trefly; Tregaron; Ty'n y Swydd; Ty'n Eithin; Ty'n y Coed; Waun Fawr; Y Drwn; Y Garn; Y Glog
Maybe a clue there?
Fach meaning small, and fawr meaning great! ;D
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Cannot explain Cammer but Fach =Little and Fawr=Great in Welsh?
Keyboard86
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Hi
I can see a Winefred Edward, 25 at Cwmdu, Caron Ys Clawdd (according to the Ancestry transcription but Uwch Clawdd on the image). She's a wool picker, but no Edward. ref HO107, 1376, 38, 2
OK found them in 1851 at "Cammerfach" Nearby properties/settlements include Penybont, Coed, Peckadilly, Ty Cam, Cammerfawr, treflin Fach, Ty'n Llyn
The enumeration district description says it covers the townships of Blaencam and Treflyn [?]
I can see a Treflin cottage very near Cors Caron today, so think that's the area, and one reference to Cammerfach/Cammer fach on welsh newspapers online
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Hi Mabel
I have a marriage certificate for Edward Edwards and Winifred Jones 31 May 1939 the ceremony at the Parish Church of Caron so I would be interested in seeing the household details for Winifred in 1841.
and if possible I would also like to see the full details for Edward and Winifred in 1851
Regards & Best Wishes, Roy
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Hi Roy
This is 1851 - all born Caron
Gwenifred Edwards 33 - hosier's wife
Margaret Edwards 8
Thomas Edwards 6
Elizabeth Edwards 3
Richard Edwards 3 Mo [may be 1 month]
The reference for 1841 is HO107, 1376, 38, 2 - she's transcribed alone (as Winefred) but appears to be with John Jones (shepherd) and family of Cwm du
1861 - still at Cammerfach, village of Treflyn,
Winifred Edwards 44 - widow, laundress
Elizabeth Edwards 13
Richard Edwards 9
David Edwards 6
RG9, 4203, 39, 6
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Hi Mabel
Many thanks for the details; I wonder where Edward was in 1851? You will note on my opening message a piece transcribed from Genuki Pigot & Co. South Wales directory 1844, for Tregaron which lists two residents Edward Edwards, hosier and Nathaniel Edwards, hosier. I wonder if you could do a look-up on the 1841 census Nathaniel; maybe Edward could be with him? I really am clutching at straws I know but I would appreciate your help.
Roy
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Think I have Nathaniel in both 1841 and 1851 - in a Bridgend (Glamorgan) lodging house run by a Mary Jones. Stocking ??/Hosier, b Tregaron c1804 according to 1851.
In 1861 he appears to be back in Tregaron - b Llangyby - with wife Elizabeth b Tregaron and grand-daughter Elizabeth Alma b Winsconsin. 1871 is similar, with the grand daughter b Milwaukee
I have a possible for Edward in 1851 - there's a chap b Tregaron c 1811 visiting a Davies family in High St Merthyr. He's one of a number there described as hawker - but he could be selling his stockings door to door? Nathaniel in later years is described as a stocking dealer. there are numerous Edward Edwards around the right age in 1841
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Hi Mabel
I was hoping to find Edward and Nathaniel in the same household but I guess its a lot to ask for with the way our ancestors moved around in those days. On the marriage cert for Edward & Winifred, his age is given as 30 which calculates his birth circa 1809, close to the details you have (1811). There is only one draw back, his occupation in 1839 (marriage cert) is recorded as 'shepherd'. I suppose he could have changed occupation by 1841/51.
I would still like to see the details you found so if it is not too much work for you; they will be appreciated.
Regards, Roy
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this is Edward the hawker from 1851 (as is everyone from Edward downwards, and all from Cardiganshire, apart from Griffith Evans. Jenkin Davies, David George and Hugh Hugh are also from tregaron)
John Davies 44 - tailor b Cardiganshire
Margret Davies 46 - b Lampeter
Mary Davies 20 - b Lampeter
Edward Edwards 40
John Rees 44
Jenkin Davies 35
Morgan Jones 41
David George 35
Hugh Hugh 27
Griffith Evans 60
HO107, 2458, 557, 20
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nathaniel
1841 - Newcastle (town) [ie Bridgend]. most if all not born in county
Mary Jones 60 - lodging keeper
Nathaniel Edwards 35 - stocking ??
George Jones 20
Mary Jones 30
Ann Andrus 65
Mary Amos 40
John Dean 20
HO107, 1422, 20, 8
1851
Mary Jones 70 - widow, lodging keeping b Pembs, Nevern [?]
Stephen Jones 5 - grand son b bridgend
Nathaniel Edwards 47 - b Tregaron, hosier, married
Richard Brown 64 - bookseller b Glasgow
Mary Brown 60 - bookseller b Dublin
Ismael Evans 61 - boot and shoemaker b Newcastle Emlyn
Mary Williams 50 - cape seller b Carmarthen
Mary Williams 19 - cape seller b Carmarthen
HO107, 2461, 674, 6
1861 - Chapel St, tregaron
Nathaniel Edwards 56 - hosier b Llangyby
Elizabeth Edwards 53 - b Tregaron
Elizabeth Alma Edwards 6 - grand daughter b Milwaukee Wisconsin
William Davies 25 - boarder, police officer
RG9, 4204, 36, 5
1871 - 17 Chapel St
Nathaniel Edward 66 - b Llanddewi brefi, hosier
Elizabeth Edward 64 - b Caron
Elizabeth O Edward 16 - b Milwaukee
Mary Bell 3 - visitor, stationmaster's daughter, b Bettws, Carms
John Evans 22 - stationmaster b Llandinam, Montgomeryshire
Magdalen Thomas 19 - servant
RG10, 5571, 61, 22
1881 - Werna, Tregaron
John Evans 32 - builder's merchant b Llandinam, widower
Sarah B.A. Evans 8
Herbert P. Evans 5
Nathaniel E. Evans 4
Elizabeth A. Evans 2
Nathaniel Edwards 76 builder's merchant b Llangeitho, widower. Grandfather in law
Elizabeth Evans 36 - sister
Mary Davies 32 - servant
Nathaniel Edwards
Q2 1888 Tregaron Vol 11b, p556
Age at Death: 84
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For completeness - his wife Elizabeth
1841 - Water St?
Elizabeth Edwards 35 - hosier
Mary Ann Edwards 10
David Davies 30 - hosier
1851 - Chapel St, tregaron
David Davies 40 - visitor, stocking dealer
Elizth Edwards 45 - b tregaron. stocking dealer's wife
Ann Evans 12 - servant
HO107, 2487, 313, 29
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Mabel
Thank you so much for all the details, as always you have been a great help.
Best Wishes Roy
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Hi Mabel
I'm not sure if you would be picking this up but just in case:
In your post of Jan 1st
quote "I have a possible for Edward in 1851 - there's a chap b Tregaron c 1811 visiting a Davies family in High St Merthyr. He's one of a number there described as hawker"
Sorry to trouble you but can you confirm that Edward Edwards was listed as 'visitor' and what of the other hawkers; were they visitors, or lodgers etc
Roy
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Hi again Roy, Mabel is currently offline so just to let you know Edward Edwards 40 Married b Tregaron plus the other Hawkers were shown as visitors to a John Davies & family, the occupation of John Davies is that of a Tailor
Census Ref HO107/2458/557/20
Keyboard
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Keyboard
Thanks for picking up the post; and thanks for the details.
Roy