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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: Dannemois on Friday 02 January 15 18:44 GMT (UK)
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Hello
The residence at the time of marriage for Margaret Evans in 1866 is given as Spite, Lledrod. Likewise the birth of Margaret Evans on 13 May 1841 was at Spite, Parish of Lledrod Lower. Can someone please tell me if Spite is the name of a dwelling or the name of a place. I would appreciate any help
Kind Regards, Roy
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There's a cottage - http://www.aberalp.co.uk/images/SpiteCottage.pdf
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Hi Sam
I saw that cottage before posting and dared to dream that it could be where my ancestor was born and lived but I had to make sure if Spite referred to a dwelling or place name for a village or farm etc.
Roy
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Spite marked on Coflein
http://map.coflein.gov.uk/index.php?action=do_details&cache_name=cGZyZWV0ZXh0LGxsZWRyb2Rfc2VhcmNodHlwZSxhZHZhbmNlZF9vcmE=&numlink=417696#tabs-4
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Rhiwfallen on page 27 of HO 107/2487 Lledrod Dist 1 shows Rhiwfallen schedule 116 with John & Elizabeth Williams. This corresponds with "Rhiwafallen" on Coflein map a little way up the left hand fork above where the road forks from the PO
Source Citation
Class: HO107; Piece: 2487; Folio: 17; Page: 27; GSU roll: 104247
Description
Enumeration District : 1
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In May 1841 John & Catherine Evans were residing at Spite, parish of Lledrod Lower,
with baby Margaret; can someone please do a look-up on the 1841 census.
Thanks Roy
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John (Ag Lab) and Catherine were at Spite with three children in 1841:
John 6
Rees 3
N.K. 1 week
All born in county
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Hello Hinso
That's brilliant; I hope I am not asking too much but can I please ask if there are there on following censuses.
Roy
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John (49) and Margaret (9) were there in 1851.
No sign of John junior and Rees. John senior seems to have acquired a new wife and step-daughter:
Sarah Evans 42 born Lledrod
Catherine Jones 12 born Lledrod
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In 1861 John (60) and Sarah (52) were there with Catherine (22) dress maker. No Margaret Evans but the following:
Henry Morgans (14) nephew born Middlesex London scholar
Margaret Morgans (12) niece born Middlesex London scholar
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Now that's interesting re nephew Henry Morgans and niece Margaret Morgans: the birth certificate for Margaret Evans on 13 May 1841 at Spite, Parish of Lledrod Lower tells us her parents were John Evans and Catherine Evans formerly Morgans.
Is there any chance the family were still there in 1871?
Regards Roy
PS: John Evans was alive in 1866; named as father of the bride
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John and Sarah Evans were at Ty Isaf in Lledrod in 1871 and 1881 along with Catherine Jones' husband and family. She appears to have married a Henry Richards.
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Hinso
I was just looking at the 1881, and whilst on the page looked at neighbours and I have answered my original post (is Spite a dwelling or village etc) several dwellings away I located Spite, it was a dwelling. Next to Spite was Pwllpridd, a farm of 160 acres, so I assume Spite could possibly be a cottage attached to that farm?
Many thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated
Roy
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Hello Hinos
Sorry to be a nuisance but did John Evans and Catherine list their ages on the 1841?
Roy
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Both 35 - all ages were rounded down to the nearest 5 in 1841
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Okay thanks for that; I know I'm pushing it, but I wonder if the family were at Ty Isaf in 1891?
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The Richards family were there in 1891 but not John and Sarah Evans.
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Thanks Hinso
If you still have the details I would appreciate the transcription; that is, if you haven't had enough of me.
Regards, Roy
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1891 Ty Isaf Lledrod
Harry Richards 56 Male Head Rhoatie, Cardiganshire Carpenter
Catherine Richards 67 Female Wife Lledrod, Cardiganshire
Richard Richards 20 Male Son Lledrod, Cardiganshire Carpenter
Jane Richards 17 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire Dress Maker
Margaret Richards 17 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire Dress Maker
Sarah A Richards 14 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire Scholar
Elizabeth Richards 10 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire Scholar
They were all Welsh-speakers. The 'Rhoatie' is the transcribers interpretation - I can't make it out.
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Before you ask
1901:
Henry Richards 65 Male Head Rhostie, Cardiganshire Carpenter
Catherine Richards 63 Female Wife Lledrod, Cardiganshire
Jane Richards 27 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire Dressmaker
Sarah A Richards 24 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire
Elizabeth Richards 20 Female Daughter Lledrod, Cardiganshire Teacher School
Mary Williams 77 Female Lodger Lledrod, Cardiganshire
The daughters were bilingual. The older people spoke Welsh.
1911 (completed on a Welsh form):
Catherine Richards 73 Female Penteulu Gweddw Lledrod, Ceredigion
Jane Richards 36 Female Merch Sengl Lledrod, Ceredigion Dressmaker
Sarah Ann Richards 32 Female Merch Sengl Lledrod, Ceredigion
Language: Cymraeg
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Well Hinso you have done me proud
It was curiosity with the 1891 to see if Henry Richards had taken up farming after the demise of his in-laws; the 1901/1911 was a bonus and I thank you for going the extra mile. I normally use the local library for some research on the census but I have been house-bound since Christmas. Rootchatters are a blessing and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kindness.
Best Wishes, Roy
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Hello again
I've just one question with regards to your post of Jan 3rd.
If I am reading the details correctly with regards to the 1871 census John & Sarah were the only two at Ty Isaf, Lower Lledrod.
The daughter Catherine married Henry Richards in Sept Qtr 1867
Familysearch have the following details in 1871 Tregaron but not the name of dwelling, can you please do a look-up for the name of the dwelling:
Henry Richard, head, 37, born Rhostie
Catherine, wife, 32, Lledrod
Mary, daug, 3, Lledrod
Richard, son, 0. Lledrod
Regards, Roy
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They were all in Ty Isaf in 1871 although the census taker may have spelled it Tu Isaf. That's from memory.
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Thanks Hinso,
Best Regards, Roy
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You may wish to have a look at the Topic David Richard-Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod on this Forum for an indication of the forebears of the Richards family at Ty-Isaf. I have a scribbled note as follows ....
"52. Jane Richards, Ty-Isaf, Lledrod 22 July 1959" and "Richards, Henry; Tyssaf", but didn't have enough info to form a link to my Grandfather X 8 and his descendants. They lived in Lledrod lower from 1680 until 1871 but their descendants are spread all over the immediate area.
regards, Peter
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Hi Peter
Thanks for your interest; there is certainly a lot to take in but I will study the contexts of the topic and see where it leads me.
Regards, Roy
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Just joined this forum and interested to see the name Spite as I lived in Lledrod until the age of 10 and Spite was just around the corner. (1950s). I remember an old lady living there occasionally visited by her nephew who once built us a cart from old pram wheels and immediately became a 'hero' to me and my cousin. Unfortunately cannot remember their names.
Ty Isaf was the first house in the village to have a TV and local were occasionally invited to watch a programme. When it was our turn the programme was Black and White Minstrels. We had to dress up and tea and sandwiches were served after....
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Hi Roy.
I took my own advice and read through most of my posts regarding, "David Richards of Strygosfawr, Lledrod" to see if there was anything that I could add to this current topic.
In 1810, David Richards died bequeathing his property to his wife, with further bequests to his sister's 3 children and his step-daughter, Sarah. Sarah was a mystery to me but after reading the 1830 will of David's wife, Elizabeth, there is a bequest to Sarah, the wife of Evan Evans.
Elizabeth must have been married before her marriage to David Richards as she also bequeaths sums of money to her children ... Morgan Owens, Thomas Owens, Mary Morgan, Enoch Morgan and Elizabeth Evans.
David's will of 1810 was entrusted to Harry Morgans of Llechwedd and Jenkin Evans of Pwllpridd. It was witnessed by Morgan Morgan.
Elizabeth's will of 1830 shows one of the witnesses as David Morgan of Fosgoy.
So we have the Morgan, Evans and Richards families all concerned in these two wills. The Jenkin Evans of Pwllpridd, next door to Spite farm is of extra interest. The Harry Morgan of Llechwedd is of interest too because, later, there is a Richards family shown living there.
This post is an illustration of just how difficult it is to trace exactly who's who but it may ring a bell somewhere along the line.
Regards, Peter
Added: David and Elizabeth Richards lived at 'Tynllan', the house next-door to Lledrod church. Spite is actually their next-door-neighbour, a hundred yards down the road.
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In case it is of any use,I have the Lledrod MIs booklet,indexed by person and address.
Regards
Roger
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Hello Peter and Roger
Thank you both for your time and effort. I carried out this research for a family friend who has since moved. Many months back I handed over a really thick file of my findings, the family tree along with a folder full of notes. Unfortunately, we have lost touch, however, when I see other family members I will pass on your messages.
Thanks again
Regards, Roy