RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: alveleyhistorian on Thursday 15 January 15 14:33 GMT (UK)
-
I am presently re-reading a favorite book of mine 'Good Night Mr Tom'..which is all a London lad named William Beech who is evacuated to the Country in WW2, and had the good fortune to be billetted with a kind old gent Tom Oakley.
In William's belonging's is a letter from his mother ' hoping that he is being a good boy etc..and that she has 'sewn him in for winter'...( sewn his vest to his under pants for winter warmth)...but my question is, was this common practise, and how did kids cope when they needed the loo or suddenly got an upset tummy ?...and did kids really wear the warm winter vest and sewn up pair of pants for weeks on end ...they must have started to whiff after a while ???
-
Some had been sewn into their clothes for the winter or encased in a layer of brown paper near the skin as a substitute for warm underclothes. http://www.johndclare.net/wwii4_evacuees_longmate.htm
However, in some North country villages, washing the children in the winter months was unheard of because they were sewn into their clothes from autumn until spring: http://www.aohg.org.uk/twww/health4.html
Stan
-
On a teaching practice in 1958 in a poor area of Gateshead I had a boy in a remedial class who had been 'sewn in'. I believe he was not the only one in the school - juniors.
Lilym
-
A relative wrote of a teacher at a school on the border near Oswestry in the 1930s "... where she found that some of the children were sewn into their clothes for the winter.".
-
My father joined a Scottish Division of the Army in 1943 and many of the chaps had been "sewn in" the Sergeant had his work cut out to explain to these lads that it was not going to be acceptable in the British Army, and they were to be "cut out" :-)
-
I seem to remember reading that a good smearing of goose grease (or something similar) was also an ingredient in sewing children into their clothes in winter. Must have added to the general fug in the classrooms of the time.
Derby Girl
-
One of the first schools to introduce (from charitable funds) health checks and free school meals (c 1907) was Green Lane School in Bradford, West Yorkshire. It was quite a deprived area and children had been fainting in class from hunger. They also started bathing the children and noted that children had been "sewn up" by parents for the winter.
I found this history info a while ago, when i was researching some of a branch of mine
The Story of School Meals in Bradford
http://greenlane.talmos.net/historyhub/schoolmeals/SitePages/Home.aspx
"...Dirt was a problem. Right up to the early part of this century some children were ‘sewn up’ for the winter – wrapped in flannel which was then sewn into place and not removed until the warm weather came. Some parents thought that this was necessary because there was not enough food to keep a child warm otherwise".
-
Since starting family history research and thinking more and more about my ancestors and the way they lived (and the miracle it is that I'm here at all), I am always struck by how awful life must have been in cold weather.
Not just earlier in the 20th century without central heating but for the relies who lived in very poor circumstances in town and country with hardly any heat at all, and very little extra clothing, warm socks, scarves or coats.
Going to school with holes in your shoes, no wonder you'd be sewn into your underwear so that your body heat would add to the little you had to keep you warm.......
How lucky we are.
-
As a 70s child, every year until I was 18 years old, I was sewn in for the Winter. The process was as follows: On 1st October (the most dreaded day in the year for me and my siblings) my mother would dress me in a pyjama top and some large underwear (boxers) and then she made me stand for hours on end while she sewed round (twice for extra protection) the pyjama top and underwear where they met so they were both securely fastened and it was absolutely impossible for me to take the clothing off. Every night there were checks by my mother to make sure the clothing was still sewed on me. Up until I was 13 years old she sewed on a diaper instead of underwear, so this would be where all my 'waste' pile up. From 14-18, there was a small hole cut out of my underwear so that I could go the bathroom when needs be. This lasted until 1st May when the clothing would finally come off ready for the Summer months (the best day of the year for us).
-
Welcome to Rootschat 1l2s, sounds horrendous. Where was that, I didn't think the custom went on that late in England? I never came across it when I was teaching then.
-
Thank you for the welcome groom. Yes this was indeed in England, London in late 1970s and 1980s - quite a few other children in our area at the time had the same ordeal so maybe there was some sort of mini culture for it. Thinking back though to be honest I didn't really mind it that much and neither did my siblings - we were always kept warm and, although I hated the sewing and having something on me which I could not possibly take off for about 5 months (and believe me I tried many times), it was always snug and we never got cold. I guess it had its benefits and its negatives, but it really perhaps wasn't as bad as many would think.
-
Hi 1l2e welcome to rootschat ;D 1970s Blimey!
My grandma told me a story about this .......... my grandparents were farmers in a tiny hamlet, the farm house they lived in (and where my cousin now lives) was originally built as a nunnery around the same time as the Norman church next to it was built, added to over the centuries and later the 'front porch' was used as the village school so a big farmhouse, during WW2 children were sent to the village from London they were brought to the farmhouse where they were to meet with the families who were taking them in.
When they arrived the people bringing them(I am assuming Red Cross or maybe land Army girls) told my gran "they stink, they are all sewn into their clothes"
She was concerned that it would frighten them even more to strip and bathe them, so as she had prepared food for them all it was more important to make sure they all ate, they all then went off to see the animals on the farm, see if there was any eggs to collect, climb in the straw and sit on the shire horses while the villagers searched and brought some clean clothes from their homes ( hand me downs) Most then visited the tin bath set out in front of the fire, she told me a whole family would normally share one bath of water one after the next taking their bath, but the water was so dirty after 3 small children it took a long time to bathe the ones they could get to bathe and even longer to cut them out of their clothes.
My gran was someone who saved everything, used everything, nothing was thrown away but she said none of what they wore was any use to anyone or to use even as rags for cleaning and some had been sewn in their underwear for months and not only were they worse than filthy but infested with " all sorts" including fly larvae, lice etc
Many of these children didn't want to go home when the time came to do so and it must have been very scary for them when they left their own family to go in the first place, but when they did go home they were clean, well fed, happy and healthy children along with no sewn in underwear.
-
Wow, what an inspirational story and great grandmother. Such a shame the children were in such a bad state, perhaps they had been forced through their clothing to go to the toilet in them? Just for a bit of clarification: when you say 'sewn into their clothes', do you just mean that the clothes were sewn together so impossible to take off, or something else?
-
What a bizarre custom. No wonder child mortality was high. I have never heard of it in North America where the winters are longer and colder, at least in the north central region.
-
Well I can safely say that in 1948, little boys being what they are, when we we were trying to see who could "reach" the highest, not one of us was sewn in,
Cannot speak for the young ladies.
Mike
-
Thanks for your question by PM, 1l2e, imagine the little boy statue in Copenhagen.
Mike
Edit, Sorry, it's in Brussels
-
Well you learn something new every day here don't you? I certainly didn't realise the custom was still going on as late as the 1970s in London. I know it wasn't where I was teaching as we used to take the children swimming every week. ;D
-
Wow, what an inspirational story and great grandmother. Such a shame the children were in such a bad state, perhaps they had been forced through their clothing to go to the toilet in them? Just for a bit of clarification: when you say 'sewn into their clothes', do you just mean that the clothes were sewn together so impossible to take off, or something else?
I will answer your PM on here as it is the same question
Yes the underclothes were sewn together, so the vest/pants couldn't be removed, but as you said about yourself it happened to you so you already know where they met so they were both securely fastened and it was absolutely impossible for me to take the clothing off.
-
@iluleah Thank you for clarifying. I just wasn't sure if you meant what happened to me or something else when you wrote that. Thanks for trying up the loose ends.
-
1l2e, did that mean that for 7 months you didn't have a bath, all over wash or change of underwear? Was that both sexes? I was just thinking about the difficulty for girls when they reached puberty.
-
I hadn't thought about that part Groom... I was still reading this with a fixed look of horror about how one goes to the toilet...
-
And I thought it was bad enough wearing a liberty bodice when I was at infant school. ;D ;D
-
@groom 1) Yes indeed the custom was going into the 1970s but I think it was more covered so people didn't really know it was going on. I remember at my primary and secondary school, a few children with me also turning up sewed into their clothes in the colder months (although of course it was top secret from the other kids!). In fact, even this century about 10 years ago, I remember my half-sister saying that for the Christmas she was going to sew in her children (aged 8 and 14) for the Winter as it was a very cold one that year and she was living in the countryside with not so great heating (I think she had a better time with the sewed on underwear than me and my other siblings did!). Unfortunately me and her don't get along very well, so I wasn't abel to dissuade her...
2) Fortunately, taking a bash and shower were very easy, as the water would just go in-between the clothes and on the skin (the water could just about pass through the stitches into my underwear area and below) and so could wash out dirt. That being said showers were very rare about once a week because my mother thought it better that way for some reason.
3) There was no change of underwear over the 7 months whatsoever, just the same thing for over 200 days (I did try to use deodorant to help the smell though).
4) Yes the treatment was the same for both sexes. For my half-sister, not that I know how she dealed with her pubertal bodily functions, but I presume she just pulled up her knickers and did her business.
@Ayashi 1) One could in fact go to the toilet fairly easily: for a number 1, there was the normal opening in the underwear, and for number 2 it was possible (although with some effort) to lift up the underwear high enough until you could do your business without it getting everywhere (as the stitching was along the top of the underwear where it met the pyjama top, pyjama top tucked into underwear).
-
I've never heard of this! :o
I would have thought the embarassment of having to wear the same underwear for months and go to the toilet in a nappy at age 13 would be far worse that getting a cold bum in winter when using the toilet! :o It is beyond my comprehension that this ever happened let alone continued into the 70s/80s!
If older people could cope with the cold, why couldn't a 13 year old?
-
"It is beyond my comprehension that this ever happened let alone continued into the 70s/80s!"
No kidding. I thank my lucky stars that my English mother never heard of this revolting custom. Indeed, she led us to believe that English people are TOUGH; they just put on an extra sweater and, if necessary, wear mittens and a wool cap to bed. That's how it was in our household and we got moving fast in the morning because the bedrooms were only barely above freezing and our underwear wasn't sewn on.
-
It would probably be a punishable offence today. :)
-
"It is beyond my comprehension that this ever happened let alone continued into the 70s/80s!"
No kidding. I thank my lucky stars that my English mother never heard of this revolting custom. Indeed, she led us to believe that English people are TOUGH; they just put on an extra sweater and, if necessary, wear mittens and a wool cap to bed.
I personally don't think it was 'custom' but probably by the minority (in certain circumstances) ???
Scotland has far more countryside locations/residences (on remote islands with no access to mainland towns) & I have never heard of such a 'revolting' thing either.
Maybe the fairly new fashion of 'onesies' is a 'flashback' invention :-\ ;D
Annie
Add...
It would probably be a punishable offence today. :)
For sure Ruskie & I can't actually imagine how those kids didn't suffer from (what we would call) 'nappy rash' as that can cause blisters & all sorts.....I feel sick at the thought :o
-
I'd heard of it, but thought it was something that went on in the 1870s, certainly not the 1970s. When I think about the fashions of that era, I'm surprised it wasn't noticed. As Annie said, I don't think it was a custom, just a very rare occurrence in a minority of families in certain areas. Without wishing to pry, 1l2e, did you grow up in a particularly poor area of London?
I certainly would have reported children clothed like that as I'm sure, however careful they were there would be an aroma by Spring! That was also the time of communal showers after PE in Secondary school, so what happened then?
-
I can remember one year when I was 15 years old, that for one sewn in Winter my mother sewed onto me my complete school uniform for the whole 7 months - that is, underwear was sewn to school shirt, shirt to trousers, trousers to socks, shirt to tie, school blazer to shirt. This was extremely embarrassing for school, and meant my mother forced me to wear school uniform on weekends and in the Christmas holidays as well, so to go out with other people I would have to wear layers on top of my whole school uniform of course making me very hot indeed.
Another big memory is that up until I was about 7 years old, my mother always kept me on a child leash whenever we went out and on my way to school (this was 70s London so very busy). I remember that she sewed a permanent leash onto the back of my coat (which she forced me to wear whenever I went outside) so whenever I was always either on the leash or the leash was simply just dangling down from my coat.
@Ruskie 1) the embarrassment was awful but being forced by my mother there was absolutely no way me or my siblings could get out of our clothes (and believe me we tried very hard), if so we risked a very hard paddling indeed. Also, my mother double stitched our clothes so they were extra tight and there was no way they would budge.
2) Don't be surprised this tradition was going into the 70s/80s, at least in my area of London there were other children who had also been sewn into their clothes for Winter. I even remember at secondary school when there were health checks in the Winter, there was a letter home saying that those who had been sewn into their clothes for the Winter were of course exempted from injections,etc. and these teenagers numbered quite a few.
3) Im not so sure if it would be a punishable offence today. Sure, I agree having the diaper sewn on might make it a punishable offence as so, but I doubt having just the pyjamas sewn onto the child would be a punishable offence - after all, in some people's minds (not my own) it is just keeping the child warm for the Winter. Also, I still know a few people who practise the tradition with their own children so...
@groom Don't worry at all for asking. No, my family was a fairly average earning middle class family living in Maida Vale/Warwick Avenue area. Even though we had a decent heating system and warmth in the house, my mother sewed me and my siblings in for the Winter also for when we were outside/at school/etc.
About the aroma, my mother was always diligent about putting large amounts of soap to wash out the smell when I had my bath once a week (and in my mouth when I was naughty!) and she also sprayed deodorant/perfume to try and help the smell go.
-
I find it very difficult to believe that this happened in the 1970s, to be honest. In the 1930s perhaps, but the 70s were a fairly enlightened time, and clothing was more modern, easy to wash and keep clean. Not sure about the access to showers though, I don't think they were particularly common in homes. Sorry to be sceptical, but this really sounds very unlikely and I am sure social services would have had something to say about it. The idea of children being bathed in their full school uniform and then left to dry really stretches belief I'm afraid.
-
@Greensleeves this happened with my family in the 1970s it is very much true. I don't know about your home, but in the 70s-80s we certainly had a shower in the home and at school. My mother was quite a backwards person and I think this tradition happened to her and her parents in the 30s as you say, so she used the traditions she and her parents endured on her own children for them to be sewn in for the Winter.
-
But then on the other side of the coin (as it were) there are tales of young children without nether garments in the days when small boys and girls were dressed similarly.
My wife, whose family came from Tyneside, has also heard of the sewing-in practice. I am surprised it still happened in the 70s, but assumed that it was a throwback inflicted by a disciplinarian parent doing what had been done to them. I should think it kept children warm by preventing them removing clothes, rather than any direct physical effect.
-
This is the first I've heard of "sewing in" too and am as surprised as everyone else. Found this article about memories from WW2:
"Around three o’clock they arrived, angry, tired, hysterical and lousy. Many of the children had been ‘sewn up for the winter’ (rubbed with goose grease or whale oil, their flannel underwear sewn on until Spring) and were hosts to infection, which they happily passed on! The Red Cross manual did not appear to cover this."
http://www.caringonthehomefront.org.uk/stories/welfare-work/helen-owen/
-
Surely if a 13 year old from a middle class family felt cold, they would simply put on a jumper? :-\
How can you posibly have a shower if you are fully clothed? How could you dry yourself? Wouldn't it be worse to shower fully clothed and be stuck in wet clothes in winter?
If you were sown into clothes in the 70s there must have been many places which were heated - what happened then? Wouldn't you swelter? What about playing sport? You'd get very hot and sweaty surely? Couldn't you have used scissors if you were determined to remove the sewn on clothes?
-
@Andrew Tarr Exactly it kept us warm by the fact that they were impossible to remove. Also the fact that sewing them together keeps in the heat because there are no openings for holes, cold air to get in, etc. Out of interest, what did your wife say about sewing in children for the Winter?
@Ruskie Im not saying I agree of course, but I think that my mother thought that as I said it above having it permanently sewed on would be a great method for keeping warm and having an underlay on in the Winter.
To have a shower, the water would just go in-between the pyjamas and the stitches, and come out again. To dry, we would just have to wait until the clothes were dry (hence why mother had us have shower in the early mornings on the rare occasion that we had them).
Yes you are right often we did get very hot sewed in occasionally but I guess it was better than being freezing cold. I mean we could of used scissors but the clothes would just be sewed back on, followed by a hard spanking/paddling from my parents. It was a lose-lose situation
-
I agree with you Annie
I personally don't think it was 'custom' but probably by the minority (in certain circumstances) ???
.......also maybe certain areas of the country.
My grandparents live north midlands so 1-2 hours north of London, so potentially colder than London and no children there were 'sewn in' no one there could ever remember anyone being 'sewn in' it was the first they had heard/seen it with the children who were evacuated out of London
-
To have a shower, the water would just go in-between the pyjamas and the stitches, and come out again. To dry, we would just have to wait until the clothes were dry (hence why mother had us have shower in the early mornings on the rare occasion that we had them).
I would have thought that you'd stand more chance of catching pneumonia in this way than if you hadn't been sewn in. ;D
I think what has astounded most people here, is that the custom was still carried out, at least in your house, in the 1970s. That was the time of bell bottom trousers, track suits, mini skirts. Easy to wash and wear clothing.
-
@groom I agree completely about it being very unusual to have done this in the 1970s. I think my mother was simply quite traditional and was only doing to her children what had been done to her, her parents, etc.
-
Clothes were figure hugging too Groom. Bulky underlayers would have not gone unnoticed.
I'm not sure that I understand how water goes between stitches and pyjamas when having a shower ... Wouldn't it be quicker and easier to just strip off? :-\ You must have beeen late for school on shower mornings if you had to wait for your clothes to dry before going out. :)
-
Hope you didn't follow the same tradition! ;D ;D
-
@Ruskie Of course it would have been quicker and easier to strip off, but the pyjamas were sewn together so this of course was not possible without having to resew them shut every week when I had a shower (which would have taken enormous amounts of time and effort). The water would be able to trickle down through the sewn stitches as there tiny holes where the sewing had been done. And also when we did do the rare shower, it was either on weekends or in the holiday period.
@groom Yes, Im glad I didn't follow the tradition myself ;D
-
And I thought it was bad enough wearing a liberty bodice when I was at infant school. ;D ;D
lol, I had the same thought. According to my mother she threw over the traces of the older generations and her mother was horrified that from babyhood to toddlers we weren't dressed in several under-layers. For the life of me I can't now recall the names of those garments, one of which was rather complicated to put on and which fastened with ribbons - I can just recall one phrase addressed to my brother of "where's your shimmy?" (night shirt/chemise?). I think scarcity in WWII had something to do with wearing less clothing.
-
According to my mother she threw over the traces of the older generations and her mother was horrified that from babyhood to toddlers we weren't dressed in several under-layers.
Nothing changes - I wondered [although not horrified ;D] why my grandchildren didn't wear vests!!
-
"As a 70s child, every year until I was 18 years old, I was sewn in for the Winter. "
Try as I may, I cannot imagine a 17 year old standing there letting mother sew him into his clothing for the duration of the winter. And at 15 you would not have been wearing a school uniform, you would most likely have started work on the day after your 15th birthday. Was this still in the 1970s, or have we managed to move onto the 1980s by then?
Sorry, but I don't believe a word of this story. Although there is a parallel in The Bleak Old Shop of Stuff set in the Dickensian era, when the character Smalcolm is sewn into his clothes at a very young age, and eventually manages to burst forth from them a fully-formed man at the age of 25. That is a comedy programme...
-
@Ruskie Of course it would have been quicker and easier to strip off, but the pyjamas were sewn together so this of course was not possible without having to resew them shut every week when I had a shower (which would have taken enormous amounts of time and effort). The water would be able to trickle down through the sewn stitches as there tiny holes where the sewing had been done. And also when we did do the rare shower, it was either on weekends or in the holiday period.
@groom Yes, Im glad I didn't follow the tradition myself ;D
I'm finding it difficult to understand how water trickles through tiny holes in stitches .... wouldn't the entire garment get soaking wet? :-\
-
A lot of googling has produced reference to a post on a totally different forum from 3 years ago claiming that this practice still existed in the 70s, unfortunately the link to the post is broken.
A seemingly reputable history site suggests that the source of most stories originates with inner city evacuees arriving at horrified middle class homes dressed in the only clothes they possesed,
totally inappropriate for winter,and devoid of underwear of any sort except for a length of red flannel wrapped around the chest and sewn to prevent it coming undone.
Mike
-
A seemingly reputable history site suggests that the source of most stories originates with inner city evacuees arriving at horrified middle class homes dressed in the only clothes they possesed,
totally inappropriate for winter,and devoid of underwear of any sort except for a length of red flannel wrapped around the chest and sewn to prevent it coming undone.
Mike
That fits very well with the story my grandmother told me
-
Snap iluleah -I can remember my grandmother talking about war time evacuees being sewn in for the winter. This was in co Durham - she was the wife of a headmaster.
William
-
I think someone is having fun at our expense.
Like GS, I don't believe a word of this.
-
I think someone is having fun at our expense.
Like GS, I don't believe a word of this.
;D!
-
I also find that account totally unbelievable. I recall a very old lady telling my mother, when i was a very young child, about being "sewn in", and I'd asked her what that meant - being a child I asked "what about the toilet?", and as far as I can recall:
"Sewing in" was a length of (red?) flannel wrapped round the torso, and stitched into a tube, with a vest stitched onto it. Knickers were NOT fastened to it - so going to the toilet was possible in a normal way. It was done when the first frosts/snows arrived (I'm talking an upland, N of England Farm here) and dispensed with when the weather eased, so really an emergency bodywarmer for a few weeks.
She answered my questions freely, the vest was kept on ( and so were the knickers) under nightie for bed.
So I reaslly can't believe that anyone living in a city (warmer) would need more than than normal clothing. I agree, it's a hoax.
-
"a length of (red?) flannel wrapped round the torso, and stitched into a tube"
Why didn't they wear union suits in the winter? Or long johns?
-
What a bizarre custom. No wonder child mortality was high. I have never heard of it in North America where the winters are longer and colder, at least in the north central region.
Maybe not completely unknown in North America.
https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/fa80b.htm (https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/fa80b.htm) (Section 14)
-
I've just caught up with this, and I don't believe a word of it.
Rather than a 'joke' or wind-up at our expense, this sounds more like a manipulative fantasy which the poster is using to provoke reactions of horror and therefore sympathy. Note that when challenged, the poster concocts even more unlikely details to keep the fantasy alive.
There's little point in arguing with fantasists. We should probably step away now and go about our own business.
Carol
-
Erato, I think the idea was to add extra layers to the inside of the vest? (I was only a young child when the old lady answered my question)
And I agree with CarolA3 ( not for the first time)
-
I am sat here occasionally watching the Tour of Britain, (they are getting very wet), I have my box of tissues, my cough mixture, my lemsip etc.
Does anyone think red flannel and goose grease will work, the NHS has run out of ideas ;D ;D
Mike
-
Maybe not completely unknown in North America.
https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/fa80b.htm (https://thelibrary.org/lochist/periodicals/bittersweet/fa80b.htm) (Section 14)
Well, maybe in the Ozarks ....
"I can remember hanging my dad's union suit out in the winter and they'd freeze dry!"
I do recall bringing in the frozen laundry off the line. The sheets would come in like pieces of plywood.
-
Sorry to disappoint everyone but the bottom halves of the sewn in underwear had flaps/access hatches ;D
-
Sorry to disappoint everyone but the bottom halves of the sewn in underwear had flaps/access hatches ;D
Not 1l2e's according to this:
.... Up until I was 13 years old she sewed on a diaper instead of underwear, so this would be where all my 'waste' pile up.....
Just curious 1l2e ..... How was your "waste" removed from the sewn in "diaper"?
How often was it cleaned or changed (and by whom) and how big was the pile allowed to get?
-
"Leash"
"Diaper"
"Paddling"
When you say London, do you mean London England?
-
....Let's all go off and look at another thread, shall we? We seem to be getting rather too "sewn in" to this....
-
"Leash"
"Diaper"
"Paddling"
When you say London, do you mean London England?
I did wonder that as well, Mike. How many Londoners would say diaper - they are nappies? ;D
If, as suspected, we are being wound up, it might have been easier to believe if the dates were the 1940s rather than 1970s. ;)
-
it might have been easier to believe if the dates were the 1940s rather than 1970s. ;)
Up until the point of the ridiculous details.
-
I can remember one year when I was 15 years old, that for one sewn in Winter my mother sewed onto me my complete school uniform for the whole 7 months - that is, underwear was sewn to school shirt, shirt to trousers, trousers to socks, shirt to tie, school blazer to shirt. This was extremely embarrassing for school, and meant my mother forced me to wear school uniform on weekends and in the Christmas holidays as well, so to go out with other people I would have to wear layers on top of my whole school uniform of course making me very hot indeed.
I was taken in for a while, but not after reading this :-X
-
I can remember one year when I was 15 years old, that for one sewn in Winter my mother sewed onto me my complete school uniform for the whole 7 months - that is, underwear was sewn to school shirt, shirt to trousers, trousers to socks, shirt to tie, school blazer to shirt. This was extremely embarrassing for school, and meant my mother forced me to wear school uniform on weekends and in the Christmas holidays as well, so to go out with other people I would have to wear layers on top of my whole school uniform of course making me very hot indeed.
I was taken in for a while, but not after reading this :-X
Gym lessons and swimming lessons might have been a bit awkward...
-
I can remember one year when I was 15 years old, that for one sewn in Winter my mother sewed onto me my complete school uniform for the whole 7 months - that is, underwear was sewn to school shirt, shirt to trousers, trousers to socks, shirt to tie, school blazer to shirt. This was extremely embarrassing for school, and meant my mother forced me to wear school uniform on weekends and in the Christmas holidays as well, so to go out with other people I would have to wear layers on top of my whole school uniform of course making me very hot indeed.
I was taken in for a while, but not after reading this :-X
Must have looked like Michelin Man. ;D ;D
-
He seems to have gone very quiet now - perhaps his fingers have got caught in all that double-stitching...... ;D ;D ;D
-
He seems to have gone very quiet now - perhaps his fingers have got caught in all that double-stitching...... ;D ;D ;D
Or changing his diaper.
-
We need a 'like' button, Mike! ;D ;D ;D
-
"Leash"
"Diaper"
"Paddling"
When you say London, do you mean London England?
Also mentioned was "going to the bathroom".
-
'E knows 'e's bin rumbled guvna!
-
Thank you for the welcome groom. Yes this was indeed in England, London in late 1970s and 1980s -
-
Just realised this thread originated in 2015, but not picked up by 1l2e until today.
-
"not picked up by 1l2e until today"
And I say, a tip of the hat to 1l2e. He has made a very amusing contribution.
-
"not picked up by 1l2e until today"
And I say, a tip of the hat to 1l2e. He has made a very amusing contribution.
He certainly brightened up a wet September day for me.
-
It has enlivened a wet Sunday, but, it just shows how easy it is these days to make allegations of abuse and how hard it can be to refute them.
Mike
-
Besides the decades , the street address he provided is another good giveaway (I doubt anyone who lives/lived on that street sewed their children in! - millionaire prices).
I'll take a guess he is very young.
I have just come back from our state finals of a school tournament, where one group of children genuinely thought facebook was invented in the 1950's lol (to make it worse- these were secondary students and not primary)
Kind regards
-
What a pity he didn't save it for April Fools day. ;D ;D ;D As you say, Maida Vale not very likely, it would have been easier to believe if it had been the 1940s and the East End of London. Gave everyone a good laugh though. ;D ;D
-
"Leash"
"Diaper"
"Paddling"
When you say London, do you mean London England?
Also mentioned was "going to the bathroom".
It was the era, 'Diaper' (Nappy) & 'Leash' (Reins) which made me wonder although 'Bathroom' is a word I use from where I was brought up which is a large Scottish city.
The initial part of the story was slightly believable having never heard the expression 'sewed in' but the replies to different questions & evading of others became more of a concoction ;D
I feel sorry for people who need to act like a 7 year old to gain attention 1l2e & from looking at your history this is the only thread you have participated in i.e. I would suggest you take up a decent hobby such as genealogy which may improve your brain cells :-\
Annie
-
He probably would have got away with it if he'd set it in an earlier decade and not gone over the top e.g being sewn into the complete uniform.
He obviously didn't realise that as genealogists we question everything and don't take things at face value. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
He probably would have got away with it if he'd set it in an earlier decade and not gone over the top e.g being sewn into the complete uniform.
He obviously didn't realise that as genealogists we question everything and don't take things at face value. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Precisely Groom or as Cell did, check out the area...where's the 'thumbs up' button? ;D
Annie
-
I feel sorry for people who need to act like a 7 year old to gain attention 1l2e & from looking at your history this is the only thread you have participated in i.e. I would suggest you take up a decent hobby such as genealogy which may improve your brain cells :-\
Annie
He had a lot of you going for a long time and it was very funny. I don't see much wrong with his brain cells.
-
I agree, Mike, it was quite harmless and entertaining. ;D ;D ;D He'd obviously done a bit of research, as from what I've read about the custom, some of the facts were correct - just set too late and in the wrong area.
-
He had a lot of you going for a long time and it was very funny. I don't see much wrong with his brain cells.
I think most of the others thought exactly the same 'wind-up' (but didn't want to say) hence all the questions.
Sadly I disagree where brain cells are concerned or he would have used ages/terms/dates/locations more fitting & believable ;D
Annie
-
I guess we are just too polite and want to give people the benefit of the doubt, hence the probing rather than just saying after the first post, "1970s you must be joking!" ;D ;D
-
Considering the use of "diaper" and "bathroom" (sorry Annie) which are terms adopted by young people who have been exposed to through American TV and films, I suspect 1l2e is on the youngish side.
I do wonder what brought him to this site and this thread which he felt compelled to join and contribute to. Google possibly? If so, what search terms?
If you'd like to come back 1l2e, I would be interested to know. ;D
-
He could have been around for ages. It used to be quite common for people to register under several different names and to use them simultaneously, sometimes even to converse with themselves.
-
He could have been around for ages. It used to be quite common for people to register under several different names and to use them simultaneously, sometimes even to converse with themselves.
;D
-
This name 1l2e was registered 9th Sep 2017...
Maybe should be 1/2w ;D
Annie
-
? Why ( apart from doing better in the Quiz via cheating) would anyone want to register twice?
-
? Why ( apart from doing better in the Quiz via cheating) would anyone want to register twice?
For reasons of mischief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet))
-
For reasons of mischief.
Exactly! I well remember a few years ago a member had two, if not three, identities, and on one occasion started a thread to which he then replied using his other identity.
He's still a member so I won't embarrass him by posting a link to the offending thread ;D
-
I well remember a few years ago a member had two, if not three, identities, and on one occasion started a thread to which he then replied using his other identity.
;D ;D As they say, to be a good liar you need to have a great memory!
Annie
-
Well, you lives and you learns, as they say!
-
Could be a Uni undergraduate doing a bit of research?
-
Could be a Uni undergraduate doing a bit of research?
If 'sew', why not just be honest as there would be people willing to help with a genuine query :-\
Annie
-
Could be a Uni undergraduate doing a bit of research?
What in - how to wind people up? ;D ;D ;D
-
Could be a Uni undergraduate doing a bit of research?
What in - how to wind people up? ;D ;D ;D
;D I'm female so don't know what goes through a young male brain ;D ;D
Males seem to have an obsession with testing human reactions, such as the famous one concerning administering pain, or simple ones such as this which tests the "herd instinct":-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEhSk71gUCQ
-
Hadn't seen the description 'sockpuppet' before, thanks Mike, aware of it happening though, as I did with the thread topic of OP in those earlier times.
Can only imagine how bleak it must have been with every effort made for extra warmth and also the health and hygiene conditions of the time.
Can't help but think of the growth of a child while being sewn in, since I read Christina Noble's account of her childhood in the slums of Dublin in her book 'Bridge Across My Sorrows', one image that has stayed with me is of her younger sister wearing a cardigan for months on end and it adhering to her skin :'( ... I suppose the greasefat would help prevent that and some allowance would be made perhaps :-\
Also in recent times, a first hand account of an adolescent boy growing so much during his first year at high school, his dad bought next size up in both shirt and shorts at the beginning of each term ( 4 terms) ... just saying :)
-
Also in recent times, a first hand account of an adolescent boy growing so much during his first year at high school, his dad bought next size up in both shirt and shorts at the beginning of each term ( 4 terms) ... just saying :)
We weren't smeared in goosefat (probably too expensive to buy) but we were coated in Vick to keep us warm.
With the exception of shoes, I can associate with the larger sized school uniform and also all other clothing bought by our parents, which was also chosen for us "to grow into". Additionally last year's summer sandals were made to fit by father cutting off part of the leather uppers so that our toes were exposed - I think these days they'd be compared to the style known as "Jesus sandals".
-
Also in recent times, a first hand account of an adolescent boy growing so much during his first year at high school, his dad bought next size up in both shirt and shorts at the beginning of each term ( 4 terms) ... just saying :)
That's normal ;D This is coming from a mum(me) who buys bigger for her poor hard done by son ::), uniforms are *expensive, and children grow so fast(*especially private school uniforms, which my son is in) My 11yr old is wearing a 16yr old blazer lol ( I have tacked the arm sleeves up inside, and will let them down when his arms grow - our school blazers cost 250.00, I'm not buying one of those every year!) . I always buy big when it comes to expensive items(whether it's uniform , or casual wear).
Kind regards :)
-
It's a long time since I bought a school blazer but 250.00? I've never even spent that much on a coat for myself!!
I knew a lady who used to catch the early bus with me sometimes.(6.15am.) One snowy day she was making a curious rustling sound, she had goose grease and brown paper inside her clothes! This was 1968, I dread to think what the smell was like later in the day.
I wore liberty bodices with rubber buttons as a child but I was never "sewn-in" in the 1950's even though we weren't very "well off".
rayard.
-
It's a long time since I bought a school blazer but 250.00? I've never even spent that much on a coat for myself!!
I knew a lady who used to catch the early bus with me sometimes.(6.15am.) One snowy day she was making a curious rustling sound, she had goose grease and brown paper inside her clothes! This was 1968, I dread to think what the smell was like later in the day.
I wore liberty bodices with rubber buttons as a child but I was never "sewn-in" in the 1950's even though we weren't very "well off".
rayard.
The uniform at private schools are a killer. I don't want to add up the costs. The blazer is just for show. It is compulsory to wear them to and fro school ( and compulsory at weekly assemblies and school trips). When they enter the school grounds they can take them off. Don't get me started on the hat! ( formal hat, which also costs nearly as much as the blazer, and like the blazer for show, no use - total waste of money)
They also have a formal uniform (formal shirt, formal trousers and tie . Summer months, are formal shorts, shirt and tie. Then there is the sports uniform).
I buy big ( for instance his sports uniform has lasted 2 years , his shirts and trousers last a year)
Kind regards
-
It's a long time since I bought a school blazer but 250.00? I've never even spent that much on a coat for myself!!
rayard.
I think, but could be wrong, that Cell lives in Australia, so we're talking Australian Dollars. Still a lot of money around £150.00
-
It's a long time since I bought a school blazer but 250.00? I've never even spent that much on a coat for myself!!
rayard.
I think, but could be wrong, that Cell lives in Australia, so we're talking Australian Dollars. Still a lot of money around £150.00
Yes , you are correct Australian dollars ;D
Kind Regards
-
Thanks, I thought it was a lot to pay!
-
"The blazer is just for show."
Are you sure the whole school isn't "just for show?" Lots of people do just fine in public schools.
-
The blazer is just for show. It is compulsory to wear them to and fro school ( and compulsory at weekly assemblies and school trips
Most of our secondary schools now have blazers as part of their uniform and the children wear them all the time unless they are given permission to take them off. It certainly does make a difference in the appearance of the children going to school - for a start it is easy to identify the school the school they attend!
Public schools in the UK are selective, fee-paying independent schools, as are private schools.
-
For reasons of mischief.
Exactly! I well remember a few years ago a member had two, if not three, identities, and on one occasion started a thread to which he then replied using his other identity.
He's still a member so I won't embarrass him by posting a link to the offending thread ;D
Well I will say that many years and I were both members of a politics forum. For several weeks we were attacked by members of the forum (notably those of differing political beliefs) as being one poster with two personas. The truth was that because of our particular ISP, we both had the same ISP number attached to our accounts.
Sometimes we DID both post to the same thread, if it was one that interested both of us. And at times we'd be on entirely different subjects. Eventually some of the folks on the forum realized that in many cases we had different interests, and that in ALL we had entirely different writing styles.
The idea of being sewn into clothes, if any parts of this is true, is insane to me. (Though highly interesting.) And yes, I can't imagine schoolmasters or Child Protective Services not noticing the stench and dealing with it as late as the 70's.
I HAVE read that back in the medieval period, before the invention of buttons and zippers, people were often sewn into their garments. It's my understanding that this was more of a rough stitch to keep the clothes from falling off, rather than something that kept them from removing trousers or lifting skirts to use the outhouse. It probably wouldn't require more than a few minutes to do, assuming the person had a servant or family member to help.
In those times, folks other than the wealthy rarely had more than one or two sets of garments, and that bathing was pretty much avoided as it was believed to cause sickness. (Go figure!) So easier to keep the same clothes on all the time, I guess. Now what boggles my mind is how knights in heavy armor (which usually DOES require a squire or other helper to get into) dealt with the bathroom problem!
-
I wore liberty bodices with rubber buttons as a child but I was never "sewn-in" in the 1950's even though we weren't very "well off".
rayard.
Another interesting find from this thread that I'd never heard of. Wikipedia says they were originally designed to free women from the constriction of corsets. And also that they were preferred gear for maids so that they could move around and perform their duties more easily.
Though I can certainly guess that once undershirts were invented, these might have been unusually restrictive and outdated.
-
With regards to the armour and bathroom problem, in some accounts I've read, if they needed to go they just went in the armour! After all, you can't call a halt in the middle of a battle so that people can use the toilet. Most knights had squires and it was their duty after battles to clean the armour inside and out.
-
"The blazer is just for show."
Are you sure the whole school isn't "just for show?" Lots of people do just fine in public schools.
I am sure they do, but our local zoned state school does not meet my son's needs. Not that I have to justify to anyone our choices of where we (myself and hubby) send our son, but if I sent my son to our local state school, it would set him back by years.
He has grade skipped , and also grade skipped maths by 2 years on top of that(he is in high school -he is primary age). Our local zoned state school does not cater to this. (We have asked) . He also turned down a really good Music scholarship to an out of catchment state school because they could not meet his high needs with mathematics. I can not have him sitting bored, not learning because he has already done those years.
I'd love to send him to a state school, if there was a good one nearby! But there isn't.
Thanks for your concern
-
As you say Cell, you don't have to justify your decision to anyone. You know your son and his needs best and it sounds to me (as a retired teacher) that you have done exactly the right thing for him. It is unfortunate and wrong that his needs can't be catered for in a state school, but if they can't there is no way you can sit back and see his education suffer.
-
With regards to the armour and bathroom problem, in some accounts I've read, if they needed to go they just went in the armour! After all, you can't call a halt in the middle of a battle so that people can use the toilet. Most knights had squires and it was their duty after battles to clean the armour inside and out.
I'd heard that, but hoped it wasn't true. LOL
Seems to me like having cramps just when you need to swing your sword contribute to a rather poor fighting technique. But then I suppose when people are hacking you with swords from all directions, loosening of the bowels is prone to happen either way.
It's good not to be a squire.
On a different subject of clothes and battle, one of the things that gets me curious is those occasional movie scenes where two armies are fig to>hting each other where they don't look all that much different.
Sure, many battles have been Celts vs. Romans or Vikings vs. Normans, etc, where it's pretty clear who's on which side. But there are plenty of battles where that's not the case. So in the heat of a battlefield, assuming nobody's wearing a particular distinctive type of dress from the others, how do you figure out who to stab and hack at and who not to?
-
Also in recent times, a first hand account of an adolescent boy growing so much during his first year at high school, his dad bought next size up in both shirt and shorts at the beginning of each term ( 4 terms) ... just saying :)
We weren't smeared in goosefat (probably too expensive to buy) but we were coated in Vick to keep us warm.
With the exception of shoes, I can associate with the larger sized school uniform and also all other clothing bought by our parents, which was also chosen for us "to grow into". Additionally last year's summer sandals were made to fit by father cutting off part of the leather uppers so that our toes were exposed - I think these days they'd be compared to the style known as "Jesus sandals".
How I remember that ! My lovely brown T bar sandals with a hole in the toe. :'( :'(
But then there were others at school who only had black plimsoles summer and winter. I can see them now, brown rubber soles and elastic across the front.
The summer dress from the year before with a bit sewn on the bottom because there wasn't enough hem left to let down.
We all came out all right though, didn't we ? ;D I don't feel that I was disadvantaged or damaged by the experience, probably because we were all in the same boat.
-
With regards to the armour and bathroom problem, in some accounts I've read, if they needed to go they just went in the armour! After all, you can't call a halt in the middle of a battle so that people can use the toilet. Most knights had squires and it was their duty after battles to clean the armour inside and out.
I'd heard that, but hoped it wasn't true. LOL
Seems to me like having cramps just when you need to swing your sword contribute to a rather poor fighting technique. But then I suppose when people are hacking you with swords from all directions, loosening of the bowels is prone to happen either way.
It's good not to be a squire.
On a different subject of clothes and battle, one of the things that gets me curious is those occasional movie scenes where two armies are fig to>hting each other where they don't look all that much different.
Sure, many battles have been Celts vs. Romans or Vikings vs. Normans, etc, where it's pretty clear who's on which side. But there are plenty of battles where that's not the case. So in the heat of a battlefield, assuming nobody's wearing a particular distinctive type of dress from the others, how do you figure out who to stab and hack at and who not to?
I'm not talking about modern day armies. Even if two sides were not wearing distinctive uniforms of their particular baron knights, I think I could probably tell my enemy from my friends. For instance the colour of their dyed cloth would be different depending which plants grew in each local area and as I'm from a blonde-brunette hair & blue to hazel eyed area, I reckon I'd spot it if the enemy had black hair and eyebrows or different regional hairstyles and whilst I'd be wearing a rough sheepskin jerkin, my enemy might be wearing a rough goatskin jerkin not available in my area. Also if you watch any antique shows on TV you'll see that different areas had different shaped/styes of tools, blades, daggers/knives. etc which all did the same job. If you lived on the coast you'd know that sailors wore woollen jumpers from specific sheeps wool and the women of each port knitted a pattern into the jumper that belonged to that specific port, thus every sailor recognised where each sailor originated.
I bet their sense of smell was more keen than we have these days. Thus, I think that insurgents probably had a different diet, which means their sweat glands exuded a different smell and you don't have to be face to face with somebody to know if they've eaten garlic for instance. ;D
-
Now what boggles my mind is how knights in heavy armour (which usually DOES require a squire or other helper to get into) dealt with the bathroom problem!
Sounds like the old gag: Q - what's the cure for water on the knee ?
A - (a) drainpipe trousers or (b) a tap on the ankle ....
Sorry .... ::)
-
With regards to the armour and bathroom problem, in some accounts I've read, if they needed to go they just went in the armour! After all, you can't call a halt in the middle of a battle so that people can use the toilet.
Which reminds me of the one about Nelson at Trafalgar, well known for wearing a red jacket so that any bloodstains were less obvious, asked his cabin-boy to fetch the brown trousers ....
-
With regards to the armour and bathroom problem, in some accounts I've read, if they needed to go they just went in the armour! After all, you can't call a halt in the middle of a battle so that people can use the toilet.
Which reminds me of the one about Nelson at Trafalgar, well known for wearing a red jacket so that any bloodstains were less obvious, asked his cabin-boy to fetch the brown trousers ....
You're incorrigible Andrew ;D ;D ;D
-
I just remembered a slightly shocking family story... When I got my grandfather's military records it said in his features box that he had a scar one inch above his navel. Mum told me that when he was a baby my great grandmother was adjusting some of his clothing but decided to do it while it was still on him (I assume to make sure it was done the right size) but accidentally sewed the clothes to the baby...
-
Just out of interest, how would one even go about sewing up a child for Winter, in say his pyjamas. Presumably you would have to do it while the clothes are on them but how do you sew then?? Surely once the needle is through the clothes near the body there's no way of getting it out again? And wouldn't the needle poke the child?
-
I guess you would take the stitches from the outside of the clothing -presumably you would need to be careful you don't stick the needle in, but this should be easy enough if you pull the material away from the body when you put the stitch in. I imagine that the sewing would be tacking or an overstitch of some sort and easy enough to unpick when required.
-
I’d forgotten all about this thread. Although the custom did go on, I think we decided that some of the earlier posts were a bit of a wind up! ;D ;D
-
I’d forgotten all about this thread. Although the custom did go on, I think we decided that some of the earlier posts were a bit of a wind up! ;D ;D
Yes, new member 1l2e joined specifically to contribute to this thread, have a laugh and tell a few porkies, never to return.
-
I wish I could sew mine in!! In fact I'd pay anyone to sew the" little angel" up!!
.(long school holidays here ::))
-
One of my elderly male neighbours in the 1940s-1950s wore one piece long johns. They had buttons all the way from the neck down to the legs and which had a flap at the lower end of the back which was held up by a button in two corners. In those days buttons on underclothes were made from a type of rubber.
-
I wish I could sew mine in!! In fact I'd pay anyone to sew the" little angel" up!!
.(long school holidays here ::))
Sad to say that they can only get sewn in for the winter not the summer (holidays). ;) :)
-
@Ruskie If only it was the whole year ;D ;D
-
@Ruskie If only it was the whole year ;D ;D
If that happened in this day and age I think someone would probably alert the authorities. ;) :)
-
Is it possible for someone to "sew up" this topic, and close it? It's starting to make me itch.