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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: LizzieL on Wednesday 28 January 15 15:58 GMT (UK)
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Frances Elizabeth Derham was baptised on 3 May 1829 in Morden Dorset - she was illegitemate daughter of Rebecca Derham. On 11 May 1857 Frances (Fanny) baptised a daughter called Julia at Colehill Dorset. Julia's birth was registered Q2 1857 Wimborne district. Fanny and Julia are on the 1861 census as boarders in Wimborne with Elizabeth Brine age 92. Julia has acquired a middle name (Hannah) not on her baptism record.
After that the only record I can find for Julia is a prison record where she is sentenced to two months imprisonment and 5 years in a reformatory on 24 May 1870 for stealing boots. Discharge date 22 July 1870. The record has what looks like the name of the reformatory. I can't find any marriage, death or census record after 1861, although in 1871 she should be in the reformatory.
For her mother I can't find anything after the 1861 census. Nothing obvious on emigration records either.
Any ideas?
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Here is snip from Julia's prison record - possibly the reformatory she was sent to
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In 1871 in Institution (For Young Women)Swan Place Clapton Road, Hackney, London, England listed as Julia Doreham born 1857 Wimborne, Dorset
Kay
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Thank you that was quick, I'd tried searching on birthplace but I used Colehill, so nothing came up.
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On FindMyPast you can search for name variations. I didn't put in any birthplace.
Know the area - my OH lived there for many years ;D
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I was trying on Ancestry and not finding her. Now tried FindMyPast and looks like I've also found her on later censuses in London.
Don't know why Ancestry search was failing.
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Spoke too soon. The Julia of the same sort of age on later censuses is the wife of James Derham from Devizes. Not one of my Derhams.
So my Julia disappears after 1871
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Possibly - But not given up yet ;D
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I think Fanny married George Down Dec Qtr 1871 Wimborne 5a 623
In 1881 she is listed as Fanny Down b 1829 Morden Dorset with George and family
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Another one I missed, I just searched on Frances. Thanks again.
George is much younger than her and presumably widowed to have a 16 year old son.
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I think this is mistranscribed Fanny and son Herbert in 1871 Living at East Borough Lukes Lane, Wimborne Minster, Wimborne
Fanny Durham 41 Morden Dorset Charwoman
Herbert Durham 7 Wimborne Dorset
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Just found same thing - sure it's the right Fanny, her birth place of Morden is a small village.
Now to add Herbert to my tree and find out what became of him.
This part of the family have more illegitimate than legitimate births
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Sadly I think he died in 1885 and there may have been an earlier Herbert who was born and died in 1880 in Wimborne
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Oh dear, the Herberts could take some sorting out. To name two sons Herbert might be a clue to the father's name. No Herberts that I've found in Fanny's family previously.
Ancestry has transcription of the marriage record of Fanny and George Down. She names her father as Samuel Derham. She was illegitimate and her stepfather was Samuel Kent, so I expect that's where the name comes from.
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Did you find the baptism of Laura Hoare Derham 13 Mar 1863 at Wimborne Minster Mother Fanny Elizabeth Derham
She also died in the same year she was born but she has the same middle name as Herbert - Hoare - Maybe their father's surname??
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There is a Hubert Henry Hoare b 1840 Moreton Dorset who marries Edna White in 1870 in Wimborne and Herbert born 1865 is listed on FreeBMD as Henry Herbert Hoare Derham ??
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I'd found birth and death registrations for Laura, but not sorted out her parentage yet.
So looks like Fanny had four illegitimate children: Julia, herbert, Laura and Henry Herbert - equals her uncle George's record.
And if Henry Herbert married a White, it could be another rellie. Uncle george's illegitimate children were with Sarah White. They married when quite old.
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There is also a possible Georgina born and died in 1867 in Wimborne. Maybe named after Uncle George ;D
I wonder if she was also a possible child of Hubert Henry Hoare???
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I've found baptism records on Ancestry for Wimborne and it definitely looks like Fanny had 5 illegitimate children and a Rose Down baptised about a year after Fanny married George Down and Jessie Amelia Down (recorded as Amelia in 1881 census). On baptism record of Herbert Derham (1860), Fanny was recorded as Fanny Kent (her stepfather's surname).
Still nothing for Julia after 1871 census. Maybe she changed her name.
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Just been looking at Herbert / Hubert Henry Hoare. His name, age and location make him a prime candidate for Laura and Henry Herbert's father at least. Maybe Georgina was George Down's (named after him).
H H Hoare was a police officer who moved around Dorset a bit. On the 1891 census he was retired policeman and in 1901, he's a painter. One census says he was born in Bridport but several other say Moreton, so I expect that is the right place. I haven't found a birth registration yet, it should be 1838 - 1840 from census age.
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I think this is Huburt's baptism Hubert Henry Hoare - Parents Susan and William Hoare
Baptism - 10 June 1838 - Moreton, Dorset
There is the birth of Henry Hoare in the April Qtr 1862 Poole Reg District which covers Mordon and Moreton??
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Hi, I don’t know if this is too late to be of any interest to anyone:
“On 11 May 1857 Frances (Fanny) baptised a daughter called Julia at Colehill Dorset.”
I found this at the British Newspaper Archive via FindMyPast:
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Dorset County Chronicle and Somersetshire Gazette 20 August 1857
Wimborne, Petty Sessions, Friday
Edward Cole, a railway porter, was summoned by a young woman named Fanny Derham, to show cause why he should not be adjudged the father of her illegitimate child. Mr Frederick Freeman appeared for complainant, and Mr Weston, of Dorchester, for defendant. The bench considered that complainant had made out her case, and issued an order for 1s 6d per week from the date of application, with costs.
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Edward Cole was my ggg-grandfather. He was born around 1831, I haven’t found him for certain in 1841, but in the 1851 census he stated his place of birth to be Colehill. He joined the Royal Marines in 1849 at the age of 17 but was invalided out (phthisis, acquired in the service) in 1853. On 14th August 1853 he married Eliza “Hind” [Hine] and said he was a Labourer.
On 5th April 1856 Eliza Cole, wife of Edward Cole, Porter on Railway, died of Phthisis. She was 24 and had been “ill some time” (from her death certificate).
On 11th May 1857 Fanny Derham christened Julia, so Edward really didn’t hang about very long after his wife’s death. The interesting thing is that at this point Edward was free to marry, but clearly didn’t.
Apart from the above, Edward is something of a mysterious figure as I can’t find a christening for him, or for his son, my gg-grandfather, also named Edward. I know from Edward sr’s marriage that his father was James Cole, but I can’t find any hard evidence to make him the child of James Cole and Ann Lovell who married in 1822.
Edward the railway porter is probably the man who married Charlotte Feacey 2nd May 1858 in Fordington, and died there in June 1860, being buried 11th June 1860. At this point presumably the payments to Fanny Derham stopped, if indeed he had been making them in the meantime.
I haven’t yet assimilated all the details in the posts above, but Fanny Derham seems to have led an interesting life!
By the way, I think the name of Julia’s Reformatory, as shown in the picture above, says "(Rescue Society London)".
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Thank you, that is amazing to find the father of Julia Derham. I thought it was a different man who fathered Fanny's later illegitimate children. I'll see if I can find anything more about Edward Cole
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James and Ann Cole baptised twin sons Alfred and Edmund on 21 June 1830. On 1841 census Ann Cole age 40 and several Coles of likely age to be her children including Edmund age 10 are living at Dean Grove Wimborne. No Alfred age 10, but there is an Alfred age 4, so it looks like Edmund's twin died and they named a later child Alfred. Ann's occupation is stated as widow, but that has been crossed out, probably because that is not an official occupation.
Piece: 289 Book: 4 Folio: 23 Page Number: 9
Could this Edmund have become Edward?
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James and Ann Cole baptised twin sons Alfred and Edmund on 21 June 1830. On 1841 census Ann Cole age 40 and several Coles of likely age to be her children including Edmund age 10 are living at Dean Grove Wimborne. No Alfred age 10, but there is an Alfred age 4, so it looks like Edmund's twin died and they named a later child Alfred. Ann's occupation is stated as widow, but that has been crossed out, probably because that is not an official occupation.
Piece: 289 Book: 4 Folio: 23 Page Number: 9
Could this Edmund have become Edward?
The names Edmund and Edward are interchangeable, I have come across numerous instances.
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Me too, that's what made me think he was the missing Edward.
I wonder if the missing Edward jnr was bapt Albert Ernest Edward in Fordington in 1860 s/o Edward and Charlotte nee Feacey
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James and Ann Cole baptised twin sons Alfred and Edmund on 21 June 1830. ... Could this Edmund have become Edward?
That’s certainly the theory I’ve been tentatively working on all these years, but I have never been able to find any proof, and so I haven't pursued the line back any further.
The names Edmund and Edward are interchangeable, I have come across numerous instances.
That’s very interesting to know, and quite a relief! I’ve never come across this before, but perhaps now I can accept that my Edward Cole (senior) really is the son of James Cole and Ann Lovell who married in 1822. Thank you so much for this insight.
I wonder if the missing Edward jnr was bapt Albert Ernest Edward in Fordington in 1860 s/o Edward and Charlotte nee Feacey
I confess I hadn’t thought of that one, but I don’t think so. Albert Ernest Edward (aka Alfred Ernest Edward) married Mary Clatworthy Davies in 1881, while “my” Edward Cole junior married Matilda Oxford in 1875. (I know for certain that Edward and Matilda are my gg-grandparents because in 1911 my grandmother Violet May Cook is with them - just as she always told me she was - as their grand-daughter).
The most likely candidate for Edward junior (ie married Matilda) is “Edwin Ben Cole” who was christened to Edward and Eliza in Wimborne 21st March 1856, alongside his sister Eliza Christiana Cole. I haven’t yet been able to identify Edwin Ben’s birth registration, but Edward’s place of birth was given in the 1861 and 1871 censuses (when he was 7 and 17) as Middlesex. His sister Eliza Christiana’s birth was registered in RD Lambeth Q1 1856.
"Edwin Ben" may have been named after Edward senior's brother Benjamin who died in 1852, while Eliza Christiana may have been named for Edward senior's sister-in-law Christiana Clements, who married Frederick Cole in 1851.
What has really been hanging me up all these years is the fact that I have two Edwards (census and marriage certificates), but no christenings or birth registrations. But if they actually were “Edmund” and “Edwin Ben” then that works out pretty well!
Thank you both for your help; are either of you descended from Fanny or Julia Derham?
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Edwin Ben was my other thought too, if the later child can be eliminated. i've had a few instances where children, both male and female have adopted a dead parent's forename.