RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Ians1900 on Wednesday 01 April 15 22:48 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know anything about George Carroll and Mary Eloise Chapman from Hamilton?
Mary, a silk knitter, was the Daughter of Robson Blyth Chapman and Elizabeth Heath, my Great Great Aunt. The Heath family came from the Coalville area of Leicestershire, England.
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Can you include some birthyears please
The Robson/Heath marriage was 1890 in Leics - where & when was the Carroll/Chapman marriage
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Sorry. It was in Hamilton Canada in 1923
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I don't know any more. I think Mary was born in 1900.
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Hi,
Just for dates,
Hamilton, Ontario marriage February 8, 1923,
George Francis Carroll, age 23, b. Canada, steel work, father Edward Carroll, mother Jane
O'Grady
Mary Elsie Chapman, age 26, b. England, silk knitter, father Robson B. Chapman, mother
Elizabeth Heath
George b. abt. 1900
Mary b. abt. 1897
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you very much indeed.
Does anyone have links to these people?
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Canada Voters List show a George Carroll in Reid Ave Hamilton Ontario in 1965 and then Jackson Street Hamilton by 1971 but the wife's name is Martha unfortunately. :'(
Found a Mary E Carroll (retired) listed on Canada Voters List 1972 - 12 Rembe Ave Hamilton but no George. :'(
Couldn't see any entry for both together unfortunately. Can be quite difficult to trace people because of Canadian Privacy Laws.
Sandra
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There is a marriage for Lillian Blyth Chapman born 1891 Cralville (could that be Coalville) - It gives the parents of Lillian as Robson Chapman and Elizabeth Basher. (The marriage cert is difficult to read)
Married Leonard Onions born 1891 Loughborough - Parents Frederick Onions and Elizabeth Heath.
Marriage 5 August 1912 Simcoe Ontario. Witness Robson William Chapman.
Sandra
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There is also a marriage for Robson William Chapman - born 1895 Coalville England. Aged 27 years. Father Robson Chapman and Mother Elizabath Heath.
Married in Brant Ontario 21 October 1922 to Alice Mary Atkins born 1904 St Mary's Ontario 1904. Parents john Atkins and Mary Bowler.
Sandra
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In the 1901 Census Elizabeth appears as Lizzie Chapman 31 years with children and her parents.
Lily aged 10 years born Coalville Leicestershire - William aged 8 born Coalville Leicestershire and Elsie aged 4 years born Manchester. (That is Mary Elsie) All living at number 32 Melbourne Street, Coalville,
parents William Heath 57 years born Thringstone 1842 and Jane Heath born Ireland County Down 1836.
Robson Blyth Chapman died Manchester Q1 1900 - 8d199
Sandra
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There are Canadian WW1 Attestation Papers for Leonard Onions born 31 August 1891 - Regiment Number 643998. Wife Lillian Blyth Onions.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f2u/
These files are in the process of being digitalised in surname order - the file for Robson Chapman does not seem to be available at the moment but keep checking periodically. Infact check Leonard Onions as well because you should be able to see the full file - look for a pdf link.
Sandra
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Canada Voters List 1972 shows Leonard Onions (retired) and Lillian Onions at Apt 41 Lamoreaux Street Hamilton Ontario.
Canada Voters List 1957 - Wentworth Ontario shows the same couple as above.
Sandra
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Leonard Onions and Lillian Chapman had a son Edward Robson Onions - 13 June 1913 Simcoe Ontario.
Sandra
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Possible a son of Leonard and Lillian ??? Canada Voters Lists shows an Edward R Onions (foreman) and Mrs Edward Onions in Wentworth Ontario 1957/63
Canada Voters Lists 1968 shows Edward (Foreman) and Mary Onions - 26 Kemp Drive Halton Wentworth Ontario.
Sandra
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IF the above was correct - then this looks like Edward R Onions and his wife buried White Chapel memorial Gardens Wentworth Ontario.
Edward R. Onions - White Chapel Memorial Gardens Wentworth Hamilton HM-174-3
Mary I. Onions - White Chapel Memorial Gardens Wentworth Hamilton HM-174-3
http://ocfa.islandnet.com/ocfa-search.php
Sandra
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Leonard Onions returned to Canada on troop ship Cretic 24 March 1919 - Liverpool to Halifax nova Scotia - going to wife Waubaushene Ontario.
Sandra
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There is a New York Passenger List - Leonard Onions - born 1889 Loughborough -travels Liverpool to New York on the Mauretania. Father Herbert Onions 57 Albert - Manchester. Going to Nazareth. PA. Uncle William Bennett, Bicust Street ??? Nazareth. PA
Sandra
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The 1901 UK Census shows leonard Onions with parents and many siblings in Loughborough Leicester.
Herbert Onions 44 Martha Onions 41
Liza Onions 23 Clara Onions 18
Herbert Onions 16 Annie Onions 14
Leonard Onions 12 Arthur Onions 10
Eric Onions 8 Maggie Onions 7
Emily Onions 5 Evlyn Onions 4
Claude Onions 9 months. Grandson
Did notice a couple of passenger lists for Eric Onions. One to New York 18th April 1913 and another with wife (Grace) and child (Le Roy) to Canada 18 May 1926 on the Montrose.
There was UK Return trips - one listed for 9 July 1931 on duchess of Bedford - all Eric, Grace Le Roy and a daughter Clara. (Perhaps they did not return to Canada)
Sandra
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Sandra,
Thank you very much. I have William Chapman on the 1901 & 1911 census in Coalville and didn't know he was Robson William Chapman and I know there was another sibling called Elsie, so this is them and they all moved to Canada!
Elizabeth Heath married Robson Blyth Chapman, who died before 1911. The Census appears to say Elizabeth Custin but I don't think that is correct.
Another puzzle with my family now leafs to Canada.
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Doing this on my phone and couldn't see all of your posts. Thank you very much indeed, you have been a great help and given much more to look at.
Ian
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Hi Ian - You're very welcome - pleased to have helped.
I think that surname might not be Custin but Euston - just found a Canadian Passenger Lists - June 1912 - Southampton to Quebec on the Ascania. Going to Toronto.
Leonard Onions - Clerk aged 23 years - Clerk
Eliza Euston - aged 41 years - Wife (aged transcribed as 47 years on one record and 41 years onj another)
Lillian Chapman - aged 21 years - Waitress.
Wm R Chapman - aged 19 years - Engineer.
Elsie Chapman - aged 16 years - Weaver.
Cyril Euston - aged 11 years
Winifred Euston - aged 9 years.
Reginald Euston - aged 4 years.
Sandra
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Sandra, that's incredible, thank you so much. Just found a reference to Robson William Chapman birth 1892 Ashby de la Zouch which includes Coalville.
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Border crossing from Canada to the USA for William Chapman born 1893 and aged 23 years - single - machinist - arriving Niagara Falls 24 March 1916 - going to Buffalo NY. Last permanent address Hamilton Ontario - Mother Elizabeth Euston - can't quite make out the name of the place ??? So will put a screen shot of it on deciphering and recognition board - to see if someone can tell us the name of the place.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=717301.new#new
Sandra
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Hi,
I think it is Waubaushene, Ontario which Leonard Onions gives on his attestation papers.
Cheers,
DB
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Excellent DB - Thanks - That's great - knew I'd seen something similar yesterday but couldn't find it again ;D Can you see Elizabeth Euston on census in 1921 ???
Perhaps I need new specs ::)
Sandra
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Thank you DB.
So, this is the place where Elizabeth settled. I shall have to find her Husband and see where he is. I wonder where Robson Jr will turn up.
Thank you all. In 24hrs you have given me so much new information.
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That was the info William gave in 1916. So was she married in the UK ??? Haven't come across her yet ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay,_Ontario
Sandra
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She's on the passenger list though, but with no husband accompanying her. I can't find her marriage, which must have been between 1901 and 1911. I'll keep looking.
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Death of Elizabeth Enston - born 1873 Lousewark ??? (as transcribed ) aged 59 years. Died Hamilton General Hospital - 15 October 1932 Wentworth Ontario. 11 Mayflower Avenue.
Father William Heath. Burial Hamilton Cemetery.
Sandra
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Marriage Elizabeth Chapman to Walter Henry Enston - March 1901 - Leicester - 7a 333
Sandra
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Cyril Thomas Enston born 15 September 1901 Leicester died 12 December 1979 Victoria British Columbia. Father Walter Enston and mother Elizabeth. Burial Royal Oak Cemetery. Saanich. British Columbia. George was widowed.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FL1H-PCQ
Death Cert :- Informant was his son. Wife Mildred Nellie ???
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12415-6442-77?cc=1538285
Sandra
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Mildred Nellie Enston (wife of the above) passed away 20 May 1978 Victoria British Columbia. Aged 77 years
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FL1G-SM9
Death Cert:- Informant was a son.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12056-48741-13?cc=1538285
Sandra
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Winnifred Enston born 1903 Hugglescott (England) married 5 th September 1921 Wentworth Ontario. Parents transcribed as Ballas H Enston - Mother: Elizabeth Heath Enston.
Married Wm R Vidler. born 1899 Hastings England. Father William Vidler and Mother Jane Lavender.
Witness William Chapman and M Vidler.
Sandra
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Nice finds Sandra ;D
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This is just amazing. Thank you for your help
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Hi,
Marriage February 23, 1924 Niagara Falls, Welland, Ontario
Cyril Thomas Enston, age 22, mechanic, b. Leicester England, parents Harry ??? Enston ,
and Elizabeth Heath marries
Helen Mildred Reid McLaughlin, age 22, b. Toronto, Ontario parents Richard McLaughlin,
and Jane Emerson. Witnesses George McLaughlin, Lillie McLaughlin both of Niagara Falls.
Cheers,
DB
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You're very welcome Ian. If you send me a pm with your personal e-mail address, can send you death cert for Elizabeth if you like.
Sorry, visitors so need to leave it for now. Sure DB will fill in ;D
Regards
Sandra
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You're welcome Ian. ;D
"sure DB will fill in" ....yikes now we are in trouble. :o
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Hi Ian,
Not picking up a marriage for Reginald Enston b. abt 1908, but Ontario marriages records
are only up to 1928.
He is on a Canada Voters List 1935, Hamilton, Ontario, 1257 King Street East, apt. 4
Enston, Reginald, knitter
Enston, Mrs. Reg., married woman
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you DB,
From all of this information I see that I've probably got distant relatives living in Canada.
Ian
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The Vidler Family - William and Winifred and his parents William Vidler and mother Jane Lavender.
Winifred (Enston) Vidler - Christ Church Anglican / Bullock's Corners Wentworth Flamborough West HM-370
William Vidler - Christ Church Anglican / Bullock's Corners Wentworth Flamborough West HM-370
Winifred Vidler - Christ Church Anglican / Bullock's Corners Wentworth Flamborough West HM-370
VIDLER, Jane (Lavender) Christ Church Anglican / Bullock's Corners Wentworth Flamborough West HM-370
http://ocfa.islandnet.com/ocfa-search.php?page=1&surname=vidler
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Winifred Enston Vidler
Burial: Christ Church Anglican Cemetery Flamborough Hamilton Municipality Ontario.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Vidler&GSiman=1&GSst=830&GRid=53252821&
William Vidler
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Vidler&GSiman=1&GSst=830&GRid=53252820&
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra
I have just received your personal emails too and will look at the documents as soon as I can later today.
You are very kind
Thanks again
Ian
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Quite often a relative might pick up a link to this thread on google - so fingers crossed.
Wondering if Run Kitty (RK) might pick up on an obituary for Elizabeth Enston in Wentworth. Haven't found Walter Henry Enston in Canada.
Regards
Sandra
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Hi,
I am not seeing anything in the Toronto papers. Perhaps the Hamilton Library could look it up in the Hamilton Spectator??
RK
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Thanks for checking RK - ;D
Regards
Sandra
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Yes, thank you.
You have all helped me so much already, but would you mind looking further for Walter Enston and Robson William Chapman ? I'm intrigued as to what happened to them?
Kind regards
Ian
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Never found any record for a definite sighting of a Walter Enston on a passenger list which is why I wondered if an obituary might help us further with that search.
It might also have helped us with the whereabouts of Robson William Chapman but there does not appear to be any entries on Canada Voters Lists for Robson/William or Agnes Chapman :'(
Sandra
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I don't have Ancestry or anything similar, but an Internet search pointed to Ancestry and mentions a Walter Enston from Warwickshire and one from Gloucestershire. The one from Gloucestershire is living in Hugglescote which is next to Coalville in Leicestershire. I also saw a reference to a Walter Enston abandoning a wife. I wonder if there is a tragic story behind the reason to emigrate?
I will keep looking.
Thank you Sandra and everyone else who has helped me.
Kind regards
Ian
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Did you find wither of those 2 Walter Enston on passenger lists ? Can you put the link on for the Walter who abandon his wife ?
Sandra
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http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_f-2_s&gsfn=walter+henry+&gsln=enston&mswpn__ftp=Leicestershire%2C+England&mswpn=5272&mswpn_PInfo=7-%7C0%7C0%7C3257%7C3251%7C0%7C0%7C0%7C5272%7C0%7C0%7C&msbdy=1879&sbo=0&uidh=000
Here it is. I found a birth on Freebmd indicating 1879 for Walter Enston
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Hi,
On a private tree there is a story with the title "Wife desertion, Walter Henry Enston 1879".
The member appears to be still active. Do you wish me to try to contact this member on your behalf.
Cheers,
DB
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Yes please DB, that would be great, thank you.
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Hi Ian,
I've sent along a message to the owner of that private tree.
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you very much DB
I may have limited Web access for the next week or so, but please post any news and I'll answer when I can.
Kind regards
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I have received a reply from the owner of that private tree. They wish to communicate with
you via email. So, when you are back online, can you PM your email address to me and I will
pass that on to them.
Cheers,
DB
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Hi Ian,
:) Sandra has kindly PM'd me your email address, and I have passed it along with a note about
you being offline for a bit.
Cheers,
DB
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Hello everyone, I'm back home and back online.
Thank you DB for contacting the owners of that family tree on my behalf. If it is regarding the same person, maybe I'll be able to understand how my Great Great Aunt Elizabeth ended up in Canada.
I look forward to hearing from them and will let you know the outcome.
Kind regards
Ian
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Welcome back Ian. Hope owner of tree contacts you soon.
Good Luck
Sandra ;)
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Thank you Sandra.
I'll let you know what happens.
I still think it would be nice to see if any distant Canadian relatives see this and get in touch.
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Ian it is amazing how often that happens - ;)
Sandra
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Hi Ian,
Welcome back from me too. :) Fingers crossed. :)
Cheers,
DB
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Hi, George Francis Carroll was my grandfather. Mary Eloise Chapman was my grandmother. They had a daughter, my mother Frances, born on November 3rd, 1926. Mary Chapman passed away 4 yrs. later in childbirth. My Mother told me that her mother had given birth to a son, who also died. He had water on the brain, and weighed 18lbs because of this. That is what Mom said anyway, so I am not positive about the weight. My Grandfather remarried 4 years later, to a woman named Martha Kay. She had 8 children, so together they had 9, with no further children between them. My mother married Jean Paul Lacroix in 1949, and they had 7 children together. I hope this fills in a few blanks about how Martha came into the family.
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Hi placroix,
Welcome to rootschat. :)
Ian hasn't been on rootschat for a couple of months, but I have emailed him to say that he has a new reply from you, which I'm sure he will be thrilled about.
Cheers,
DB
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Thank you for the welcome, and for contacting my long lost relative:)
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Hi DB,
I was wondering if you had received a reply to the email you sent to Ian regarding my post about my grandparents, George and Mary Carroll. I read where Sandra wrote, (I still think it would be nice to see if any distant Canadian relatives see this and get in touch). I am Canadian:). I wonder if Ian is still interested. Thank you for your help.
Paullette
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Hi DB,
I read where Sandra wrote, (I still think it would be nice to see if any distant Canadian relatives see this and get in touch). I am Canadian:).
Paullette
Hi Paulette,
Me too eh!. :) Unfortunately nothing from Ian. :( I sent along 2 emails and no reply. I also sent him a Personal Message through Rootschat in case the email I had wasn't current. Fingers crossed that he comes back to Rootschat and sees your post.....soonish. :)
Cheers,
DB
Added...just sent another PM to Ian just in case.
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Hi DB,
Thank you for all the trouble you have gone to regarding this. I certainly appreciate it. I didn't mean to hassle you with all of this, I was just curious after reading all of Ian's posts for the past 8 pages. It seemed strange he wouldn't check back to see if there was any response. It is really quite wonderful to have read all the information about my g-mother's family. You know, I didn't even know she was a silk knitter, if fact, I don't even know if my mother knew that. All the different names are quite mind boggling to try to follow all of this. My g-friend is going to put it to paper for me so that we can actually see the way this branch of the tree came down. Thank you again, (EH! LOL)
Paullette
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Such a shame if Ian doesn't come back to this thread.
Paullette if we can help you with any research, please shout - always willing to have a go - along with DB ;)
All the best
Sandra
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Agree Sandra, a shame if he doesn't come back.
You're welcome Paullette. :)
In reply #51, I contacted a tree owner on Ancestry on Ian's behalf. I just sent along another
message to that tree owner asking if they are in contact with Ian. All fingers crossed that they
are.
Cheers,
DB
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Hi DB, Hi Sandra,
You both are so very kind, and helpful. To offer me assistance in further searches, is a very generous thing for you to do. I am going to study this one for a while 1st, and try to follow it all before I go any further with my g-father's side. I will try my dad's family after that, which I have had absolutely zero luck there. My cousin sent me what he said was my dad's side, but it completely puzzles me as to a name change that doesn't fit. Oh well, like I said, that's for another day. One line at a time is consuming enough. Take care.
Paullette
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Hi all,
I am very sorry to have not visited Rootschat for so long. This was because of family illness. I've lost track of everything. Thank you all for all your help. Canadian Cousin, send me a message.
Kind regards
Ian
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Hi all,
I am very sorry to have not visited Rootschat for so long. This was because of family illness. I've lost track of everything. Thank you all for all your help. Canadian Cousin, send me a message.
Kind regards
Ian
Paulette hasn't been online since April 2016. Maybe if you try a pm she might pick up the notification
Regards
Sandra
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Thank you
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Good Luck Ian - its always nice to find a contact
Sandra
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Hi Ian,
Welcome back, and sorry to hear of family illness.
Fingers crossed that Paulette picks up your PM.
Best wishes,
DB
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Thank you DB.
Well, I thought I'd tell the story of the Heath family. This thread starts with me looking for Elizabeth Heath, who became Elizabeth Chapman and then Enstone and travelling to Canada with her children.
The family tree doesn't go back much further, but her Father was William Heath of Thringstone. His Mother was Elizabeth Heath of Coleorton and his Father was William Gibson Heath of the same place. All place names are small Leicestershire villages located next to each other.
I have been unable to go back any further than this. However, the facts I do know are interesting.
William Heath was born in Thringstone in 1842. Before his 18th Birthday in 1860, he ran away from home to join the Army. He enlisted in the 62nd Regiment of Foot and served in Ireland.
Whilst there he met his future wife and deserted to be with her. He was found three months later and returned to the Regiment.
For his actions he was sentenced to 50 lashes, to be branded with a D for Deserter and imprisoned for 105 days. This was a man's punishment and William had lied about his age in order to receive a man's wage. So rather than admit the truth and probably have to repay the money as well, he took the punishment.
He was made to work as an Officer's servant and was never given promotion, but he married the Irish girl and took her to India with him and served for 22 years and received his Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.
Elizabeth Heath and my Great Grandfather John Heath were their two surviving children. Two died in India.
John became a soldier, first enlisting in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. When he served in India himself
He transferred to the 62nd Regiment of Foot.
He left the Army in 1896 and was recalled to fight in the Boer War.
On Valentines Day 1900, he was taken Prisoner of War and spent three and a half months in captivity. He survived the war and returned home.
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WOW Ian! What incredible information you have found. I am sorry I haven't replied before now, but, I too have been very ill. now can you please tell me how I am related to your g-g-grandfather? This tree thing is really quite confusing:). It is fantastic you came back here and that we were able to connect. Keep in touch, and take care. Paullette
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Hi Paulette,
Well, your Grandmother was Mary Eloise Chapman, Daughter of Robson Blyth Chapman and Elizabeth Heath, my Great, Great Aunt.
So, your Great, Great Grandparents were also my Great, Great Grandparents, William Heath of Thringstone, Leicestershire and Jane Chambers of County Down, Ireland., mentioned in my last post.
I am descended from your Grandmother's Uncle John Heath, also mentioned in my last post.
So our Great, Great, Great Grandfather was William Gibson Heath and although I originally said that Elizabeth Heath of Coleorton was his wife, I meant his Mother, as William Gibson Heath was born in 1807.
I don't know the name of his Father.
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3rd May 1863 William Heath married Jane Chambers at Saint Annes Church of Ireland, in the Parish of Shankill, Civil District Belfast,County Antrim.
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Thanks Ian for all of this. I find it all very interesting.
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Paullette, you're welcome.
So how many distant cousins do I have in Canada?
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Well Ian, you are a part of a large family. My immediate family members total 7 with 5 sisters and 2 brothers . My oldest sister, along with her 3 children perished in a fire in 1970. The next oldest sister was a victim of a brain tumor in 2016. Between the 7 of us, there are 25 kids, and from them, 11. As for my aunt's and uncles on the Carroll side, (including my mother) there rare 9. Cousins, too many to count. In short, à very large family.
So, how about you? I look Forward to knowing thé count.
Paullette
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Hi Ian, sorry about the blank messages I I mistakenly sent earlier.
I just wanted to answer your last message, and say absolutely we will stay in touch. It is really cool talking back and forth with you. Bye for now, and take care
Paullette