RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Iowa-Heritage on Thursday 02 April 15 04:12 BST (UK)
-
I have found found records of Richard Heritage Born about 1640 in Brailes Warwickshire, England , died Sutton New Garden , USA August 16 1702 and his son Joseph Born Sutton Bedfordshire , England April 24 1675 and died November 13 1756 .
Here is a link that helps support this .
http://ba044ancestry.com/MEDLOCKMATLOCK/WilliamMatlackofNJ.html
What I can't find is how they got there . I have researched all passenger ship list I can find and they do not appear on any of them . If anyone could provide another avenue of which I could explore it would be greatly appreciated .
Thank you for your time
Daniel Heritage
Blue Grass ,Iowa U.S.A
-
Welcome to rootschat.
It may simply be that not all ships kept passenger lists, or not all passenger lists survive. :-\
-
Yes that is a consideration , also a possibility is that they worked a cargo ship for their passage . I am content with the fact I may never know . I believe it is a safe bet that they put to sea through the Bristol Channel .
-
If the son was born in England in 1675, the date of immigration is going to be later than 1665!
-
"I have researched all passenger ship list I can find and they do not appear on any of them . "
There are very few passenger lists from that time period. It would be surprising if you did find them.
-
Gosh I can not begin to tell you all how kind and thoughtful y'all have been . Very much appreciated !
-
So why or what would be the attraction for someone who lives in Burton Dorset to travel or go to Warwickshire from say 1450 ish to 1545 . Famine drought plague ?
-
How do you know the movements of these people? :-\
People often moved to wherever they could secure work. In 1450 I couldn't even hazard a guess. And a guess would be all it could ever be.
Doubt it would be drought in Dorset though ....
-
I have found found records of Richard Heritage Born about 1640 in Brailes Warwickshire
What records have you found ?
So why or what would be the attraction for someone who lives in Burton Dorset
Could this be Burton Dassett about 10mls. from Brailes ?
-
I have found Roger Heritage mentioned on page 67 of this book . King Death: The Black Death And Its Aftermath In Late-Medieval England
By Colin Plat
-
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tmebl&id=I52740
I sure hope I am pasting all this stuff correctly .
-
I think that confirms Jim's idea that it was Burton Dasset in Warwickshire and not Burton in Dorset.
-
Reading probably what you've read there's an assumption that Richard was related to Roger Heritage of Burton Dassett which may be true but there's no proof.
Others have said he was a Quaker which may also be true but again no qualifying information.
I have found Roger Heritage mentioned on page 67 of this book . King Death: The Black Death And Its Aftermath In Late-Medieval England
In what context was he mentioned?
-
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=tmebl&id=I52740
I sure hope I am pasting all this stuff correctly .
Just be careful what you take from others research. If they got the place name wrong, there may be other inaccuracies as well. :-\
-
okay I know I'm new to all this and I'm in the U.S. and naive but still the Rootsweb link I pasted clearly states Dorset { is that a county ? } as far as the book if you google the book it will let you access page 67 . I thank you all for the patience and help you have been extending to my completing my journey back through time . I am only assuming the information presented to me has a hint of truth and not taking it as the gospel truth .
-
Hi. I think what we are saying is that transcription mistakes happen all the time. If you look at the Rootweb record it says, "Burton Dorset, Coventry, Warwickshire," I'm pretty sure it is a transcription error and should read Burton Dasset, Coventry, Warwickshire. Dorset is another county and there is no reason why it would be attached to Coventry and Warwickshire. Burton Dasset and Brailes are about 13 miles apart and that makes far more sense.
Also if it was Burton Dorset, there would be a comma between Burton and Dorset.
-
Apart from the fact that there is a Dorset/Warwickshire connection through the Earl of Warwick, there is a Coleshill etc. in both Dorset and Warwickshire. While I think you are probably correct be aware that there just may be a connection.
-
Just adding to the idea that it is more likely to be Burton Dasset, which as the crow flies is not very far from Brailes. Also, the surname Heritage was very commonplace in Warwickshire so I'd guess the Dorset bit is a transcription error.
-
Excellent advice . I bow to your wisdom ! Thank you all .
-
Looking for Roger's father
Heritage, Roger ** b: 1450 in Burton Dorset, Coventry, Warwickshire, England d: 1495 in Burton Dorset, Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Any ideas of where to look first ?
-
Could this be Burton Dassett about 10mls. from Brailes ?
I think we've already established this is where he was born.
Parish Registers were introduced in the 1500's & many of the earlier pages don't exist, however the Burton Dassett Registers exist from 1564 & are held at the Warwickshire Records Office but this is still too late for what you are looking for.
Only the forebears of noble families are traceable before this mainly through wills, Heraldic Visitations etc.
-
People migrate for many reasons. Financial reasons being common and also political. 1665 was the year of the Great plague in London and although it didn't spread so far as the Black Death had done there was still a great fear of plague. But overseas travel was risky so I doubt if plague alone would have been enough to send someone abroad. The Restoration was opening up "new business opportunities" in the colonies or the second Dutch Wars which saw the English capture New Amsterdam (aka New York) so he may have left for military reasons. Also people tended to move around quite a bit in search of employment. all speculation of course.
-
Yes sir that topic has been covered it was easier to copy paste info I had found . I figured it was a long shot and do consider myself lucky to have gotten as far as what I was able to . Well shoot I guess all that is left is to close the topic . Dang ! Thank you all !
-
Ha { pats himself on the back }
A Country Merchant, 1495-1520: Trading and Farming at the End of the Middle Ages .
In this book is a line in which I am going to copy paste . So be patient !
The protagonist of the story, the ‘country merchant’ himself, is John Heritage, a somewhat enigmatic figure of whom we would know very little, if it were not for the exceptional and somewhat mysterious survival of one of his rather rough and ready account books amongst the muniments of Westminster Abbey. John was born around 1470 in the south-east Warwickshire village of Burton Dasset, the son of Roger Heritage, and was named after his grandfather. The elder John had established a respectable holding of around 30 acres in the village during the mid-15th century. As the eldest son, John junior took tenancy of the family lands, including additional leased holdings in neighbouring villages, on his father’s death in 1495. He was not, evidently, one for tradition or sentimentality, and quickly sold the original holdings in return for a lease on a more coherent parcel of lands in Burton in 1497, but by 1500 took the opportunity of his wife’s inheritance to move to the small town of Moreton-in-Marsh. From this point onward, Heritage combined the activities of a farmer with that of a small scale wool merchant or ‘brogger’.
-
When was the book "A Country Merchant" published?
It would be interesting to know if there is any factual paperwork to back up this 'story', in particular the whereabouts of the account books mentioned. (and how they came to be in Westminster Abbey)
It is interesting to find mention of ancestors in various publications and tempting to believe what is contained within them as fact, but it is probably advisable to just use these as a guide for further research rather than a primary source of information, as we know that in the past, as now, errors, intentional and otherwise, did, and still do, occur.
-
I saw this piece a few days ago but it doesn't really say anything new.
You already know Roger had 2 sons John & Thomas who are documented elsewhere.
It says John was named after his grandfather but you can only assume it's the one on the paternal side. He may have been named after his mother's father.
There's also this which you may have seen:
As I continue my research into the Heritage family history I am more convinced that N. Allcock made assumptions as to the position in the family of Agnes & Alice Heritage based on Rogers Heritages Will. I have found references to Agnes as the heiress of Thomas Heritage & Alice as the heiress of John Heritage both of Burton Dassett. Unfortunately many references do not differentiate between the manor of Burton Dassett or the parish of Burton Dasset. I have found references of Thomas Heritage & John Heritage both dying in 1482. As this was a family of Yeoman it would be reasonable to assume they were killed at the Battle of Berwick under Richard 111 as English losses were high. If this were the case it is highly likely they were the brothers of Roger and he would have taken their children Agnes & Alice into his household and raised them as his own. I find it difficult to comprehend that a family would have two daughters named Alice living under the same roof. Cousins yes, daughters no. If you have a close look at the Register of the Guild of the Holy Cross from Stratford on Avon(online)you will find that this family were members of the Guild. Thomas from Bishops Itchington, John from Burton Dassett,Roger from Avon Dassett and John from Merton in the Marsh. Clearly the line of succession of the family for 100 years.
Myllicent Jeckyll of Newington married first Hugh De Radcliffe, second Thomas Heritage the London Skinner, third Peter Temple, Thomas's cousin. After the death of Thomas the skinner 1544 Millicent Heritage the daughter of Thomas was paid 75 pounds by Peter Temple for her leases inherited from her father.
Chris Dyer's book on John Heritage (Agnes Spencer's and Alice Temple's eldest brother) came out last year - it is A Country Merchant, 1495-1520: Trading and Farming at the End of the Middle Ages (OUP, 2012). It can be read on-line, I hope, at http://lib.myilibrary.com/Open.aspx?id=368103
The family are discussed in chapter 2, and there is a family tree on p. 28, which is essentially the same as that worked out by Nat Alcock and outlined by John Higgins in the 2007 posts above.
According to this research there's an anomaly between the Heraldic Visitation & Roger Heritage's will with the researchers believing that the Visitation tree is wrong which is quite probable as many weren't strictly accurate.
In bold you can see the researcher has assumed John to be the father of Roger as a continuing member of the Guild which usually passed from father to son but this is only proof of sorts.
-
Awesome references very cool reading . Thank you for providing that . It does seem a muddled .
-
"According to this research there's an anomaly between the Heraldic Visitation & Roger Heritage's will with the researchers believing that the Visitation tree is wrong which is quite probable as many weren't strictly accurate."
Seconding this! Visitation trees can be useful but don't take them as actual proof. It wasn't unusual for people to embellish the social status of their forebears, or even make them up or claim relationships that didn't really exist. Use them as a starting point, but look for wills, deeds, family papers and other documents to back up that information.
-
Given the timeline and the fact that I'm in Iowa . I am content with the limited knowledge I have obtained . I do not hold it as gospel that this is my bloodline . However it is still pretty cool ! By the way what is a Yeoman ? I think it is like a man servant thing .
-
A Yoeman = yesman. A man who agreed to bear arms (fight) for an overlord. In return an overlord would favour the Yoeman with land at a favourable rent.
A Yeoman would have more privileges than an ordinary farmer. After the death of Richard 111 (1483) there were no more internal wars, excluding the Civil War in the 1640's & Yoeman became an honourory title.
-
Hello
I have done a ton of research and background checks and found I was chasing the wrong person . My ( tap root of the family tree , the male side ) family came from Warwickshire ( Kineton) England . I found them in an 1841 census . They went to Canada in 1843 . Not sure how much more information you would like to know .
Thank you for all your help and understanding !
Daniel L Heritage
-
Hi Daniel
Does your latest reply belong now to this?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=773502.0
If so I can move it for you.
Dawn
-
Um Hi
Slightly confused here . Probably my own doing , but I had wanted to clarify that my early research had taken a wrong turn and that I have been able to verify my male lineage back to the 1841 census in Kineton . I have no idea who or what Penny is looking for .
I hope this clear things up .
Daniel L Heritage
-
It does.
I'll leave things as they are.
Glad you've got everything sorted now.
-
I do not know if this will help anyone in this discussion but Richard Heritage from Brayles is my 7th great grandfather. He and his wife and children were Quakers and received their certificate of removal from the Brayles monthly meeting on the 3rd day of the 6th month (old calender) (August in the current calendar) 1684. They could have sailed then or in the spring of 1685. I have not found the family on a passenger list nor a record of them joining a meeting in West Jersey where they settled.