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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: ManU on Friday 08 May 15 06:05 BST (UK)
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Hi all
The brickwalls still persist
I cannot find a marriage between George William Coggin born 1837 to Mary Ann Richardson around 1865-1875, she was previously married to a George Richardson and her maiden name was Shaw, the 1881 census shows George and May Ann with a load of kids the first two must have been the kids of George Richardson
??? ???
ps I am assuming Swinton is in West Riding of Yorkshire??
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Are you sure she was married to George Richardson?
In 1881 census there is a Sevilla Coggin.
This birth : Savilla Coggin Richardson December quarter 1869 Rotherham 9c 526
In 1871 census Mary Ann Richardson is unmarried, with Sevilla and Harry (Not William, who should be 4)
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Hi chempat
Now you've got me confused will go through what I have then post it and see if it makes sense
cheers
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This is Harry:
Births March quarter 1871 Harry Coggin Richardson 9c 870
and this might be William:
Births December quarter 1866 William C Richardson Rotherham 9c 529
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This looks like the last Coggin Richardson birth:
Births March quarter 1874 Frederick Coggin Richardson Rotherham 9c 663
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Birth of last child?:
Births March quarter 1887 Marian Coggin Salford 8d 162
Think the enumerator makes mistake on 1891 census and puts Swinton Lancashire for the 2 sons as there is a Swinton (near Salford) in Lancashire as well as in Rotherham
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There was an Ethel 1876, Charles 1878 and Maria 1879, the latter in Salford
I was concerned about Swinton but checked the Lancashire BMD & FreeBMD but no luck, there are a number of Swintons, Swindons can get confusing I do know that they lived in Salford in later years
My reasoning so far is that when her daughter Sarah wife of John Richard Lee died in in 1936 age 62 the death cert said mother was a Shaw which blew me away so I started rechecking and found that there was a marriage in 1865 for a Savilla shaw to a George Richardson, they had 3 kids William born 1867 Savilla born 1869 and Harry born 1870 then Sarah was born a Coggin so around 1870 to 1873 she must have married George W Coggin
Savilla born 1869 married Walter Lee my Great Grandfather
Will check all what you said so far and see if it matches what I have - looks pretty good at present but the coggin-richardson marriage is still a mystery, reckon the enumerator cant spell Coggin
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Hi
Eventually figured out some of the mystery
Mary Shaw married Thomas Richardson abt 1845 Mary Ann Richardson born abt 1846 had at least 3 kids William, Savilla and Harry she was unmarried I believe til around 1870 sometime she married George William Coggin and had a further 5 children, Sarah Coggin married John Richard Lee in the Bronx USA and Savilla Coggin married Walter Lee
Still cant find a marriage between Mary Ann Richardson and George William Coggin have tried all variations of Coggin no luck
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Perhaps they just never got around to marrying?
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Hi chempat
Yes I think you may be right
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Mary Ann Richardson was my Gt Grandmothers sister born in 1845 in Wentworth Yorkshire(near Swinton)She had 5 children William b1866,Mary E b1868, Savilla b1869,Harry b1871and Sarah b 1873.On the 1871 census she was living with 3 children in Swinton and is shown as unmarried and a dressmaker. By 1874 she looks as if she is living with George Coggin a Grocer who was born in 1837 in Swinton. They then have Frederick b 1874,Ethel b1876 andCharles b1878.On the 1881 census they have moved to live in West Burton St Salford and have Maria Amelia b 1880 and she is shown as married to George and the other children have taken his name. They then have Eveline b 1884 and Marian b 1887.George dies in 1887 and on the 1891census she is still at West Burton St Salford shown as widow with 3 of the children and 2 lodgers. By 1901 she is at 41 Christopher St in Salford with Charles and Marion. She died in1906 in Ashton under Lyne. Her parents were John Richardson and Ann Heptinstall and they lived on the Wentworth Woodhouse Estate .He was an Ostler and coachman .They lived at Woodnook Cottage when my Gt Grandmother Savilla was born in 1848.Like you say Mary Ann was a bit of a girl by the sounds of it as I don't appear to have a marriage for her in my records. It is some time since I researched this part of my family so I may have another attempt to sort out the mystery. I have quite a lot of information on the Richardson family .They came from Belton in the Isle of Axholme Linc where the Earl Fitzwilliam had another estate on which I think they lived and worked. Hope I have helped to fill in a few blanks
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Hi skala
Thanks for getting back to me, since I posted my query much of the info you supplied has confirmed my findings which is great.
Mary Ann Richardson was my 2nd Great Grandmother and Savilla was my great grandmother I have a photo of her with her hubby.
Do you have any photos of the Richardson clan or Coggin clan
Now I do have one problem and that is the parents of Mary Ann, after a lot of research and I agree with you its not easy, I have her parents as George Richardson b1815 and Mary Shaw there were other possibilities but because in a document I had on one of her daughters Sarah Coggin who married John Richard Lee in New York it said her mother was Shaw, I was never 100% with this but could not find any other possibilities and I have just recently found another piece of info which suggested Mary Shaw was in fact Cronshaw but again info on the web is not very helpful, your comment on her parents as John Richardson and Ann Heptinstall is really new to me but I bow to your research which sounds better than mine do you have any confirmed documentation
Best Regards
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I have my Gt Grandmother's birth certificate, she was born in Woodnook cottage Wentworth in 1848.I have the trees for both her parents. John Richardson was born in 1822 in Belton Lincs and I have this tree back to 1633 in Belton. Ann Heptinstall was the mother and she was born in 1824 in Hickleton near Barnsley.I have this family tree back to 1681 the family came from the Silkstone ,Penistone area. Mary Ann was shown as Marianne Richardson on her Baptism registration 22feb 1846 at Wentworth father John Richardson ,Mother Ann(Family Search)John and Ann were married 18/08/1845 in Wath on Dearne. They had Mary Ann b 1845,Eleanor b 1853,Sevilla born 1847 all born Wentworth Then Henry b 1861 Doncaster and finally Kate b1864.I have photos of Woodnook cottage on the estate at Wentworth as I visited it with permission about 10years ago. My Grandmother was the youngest of 13 children born to Sevilla and her husband William Hargate. My Grandmother lived to be 102 and rarely spoke about her life as a child but I know she went back to Wentworth to see relatives as a child. The Hargates lived in Swinton and they had Shaw relatives in Swinton. Shaw is a very popular name in Swinton and it can get very complicated when researching who belongs to who. The 1851 census shows that Mary Ann is 5 and is staying in Hickleton as a visitor at the home of Robert and Mary Ball. These may have been relatives of her mother Ann. Sevilla is in Wentworth with John and Ann Richardson. By 1861 The Richardsons have moved minus Mary Ann to Clevland St Doncaster and by 1871 they are in High St Swinton with Kate daughter and William, Mary Ann's son.1881 shows John still in Swinton but Ann is visiting her brother Joseph at Wosborough.1891 they are at Fitzwilliam St Swinton with Edgar (grandson) son of Ellen and Harry (grandson)son of Mary Ann. By 1901 Ann is a widow and still living with Harry in Swinton. From Free BMD I note that all Mary Ann's children are named Coggin Richardson but I haven't found any marriage .On the 1871 census for Station St Swinton Mary Ann is shown as unmarried with Savilla daughter aged 4 and Harry son aged 1 mth she is a dressmaker. She is living next door to a William Shaw and Jane his wife. Now Jane was John Richardson's sister and came from Belton she first married a John Jenkinson and when he died she married William Shaw in 1863 and it is with him she is shown on the 1871 census she is Mary Ann's Aunt. Last bit of info that may be of interest in 1881 Sevilla Coggin your Ancestor is living with her aunt Kate Richardson in the house of John Charles Oddy as servants. He is a widow and a Stuff Merchant living at Blenheim Rd Manningham Bradford. Well I hope you can make Head or Tail of all this info. It has taken me many many years to gather all this info ,especially as most of these families seemed to have that many children. We always wondered where the name Sevilla came from(still no idea )but nice to see that it has been carried to other families. Please get in touch again if I can be of help. Best Wishes Margaret.
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Wow
How complicated this can become
Really appreciate your information and am in the process of verifying against ancestry, family search and my research so far it looks great.
I did have an issue with John Richardson b1822 I followed another tree back to circa 1650 every thing looked good but it had John born in 1819 which confused me and threw a few things out, one tree has a jane allis and another has another name for Jane. The Heppenstall,Heptinstal,Hepelstone side was spot on cant find official documentation at this stage so cannot confirm the correct spelling.
Whats your findings on the Richardson site.
I assume you don't have your tree on ancestry, mine is very basic maybe one day I will upload the entire tree, but my back up system I use doesn't need the cloud
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Hi There glad you could make use of the info I sent. I had my tree on Genes Re United but I have now let my membership run out as I wasn't getting much back from the site in more recent times. I only have a yearly subscription to Find My Past which runs out this weekend. It was a Christmas present last year as It was going at half price. I will let it lapse and see if they offer me a REASONABLE RENEWAL! Some of these memberships cost a small fortune. I use Ancestry at the library free when possible.
Regarding the Richardsons I start in 1623 with John Richardson born in Belton in Axholme. he married Elizabeth Gibson born in c 1625 also in Belton. There is a site dedicated to the Isle of Axholme which is quite usefull. They had 3 children Nicholas b 1659,John b 1660and Thomas born 1665.He married Ann Maw b 1670 in Belton. They had 5 children .The eldest was John b 1694 in Belton and he married Elizabeth Pacey b1700 in Belton. They had 6 children the eldest John b 1745 Belton married Elizabeth Holsomb 1743 d 1792 and then Sarah Coltard b 1756.John and Elizabeth had 10 children. Jonathan b 1786 Belton d Sept 1870 Doncaster married Jane Waters b 1809 Howden d Sept 1866 Doncaster. They had 4 children Jane b 1818 Belton(I mentioned her in the last info)William b 1818 c/be twins? Jonathan b 1818 Belton Mary b 1821, John b 1822 Belton m Ann Heptinstall at Wath on Dearne Emma b 1823 Elizabeth b 1825 Catherine b 1829.This is where our family start from. Jane born 1818 married John Jenkinson b 1814 in Haugh d 1860.She then married William Shaw b 1817 Swinton.I think William was a widower who had moved away to Wales married but then returned with his children to Swinton. One of his children was Edward b 1849 in Rhyl .He eventually married Ellen Richardson sister to Mary Ann and my Sevilla.
My Great Grandmother married William Hargate b 1845 Swinton in 1869 in Sheffield and they had 13 children. Eleanor married Edward Shaw and had 6 children1881 shows them in Nelson st Barnsley. They have 4 children and her brother Henry is living with them. The eldest child Edgar was with her in Swinton in 1871 and she is shown unmarried so I don't know who his father is? Henry a shoemaker marries Grace Day in 1888 in Rotherham and they have 3 children.1891 shows them at Temperance St Swinton. By 1901 both parents have died and the girls are living with relations at John St Darfield. Lastly Kate Richardson marries John Charles Oddy in 1891 in Bradford. At 1881 she is a nurse domestic in the house of George Adlington Fitzwilliam St Swinton. By 1891 she is in service along with Sevilla Coggin(daughter of Mary Ann)at the house of John Charles Oddy stuff Merchant. It would seem that she marries the son also John Charles Oddy. They have a son Joseph Lawrence and by 1901 are living at Park Lane Bradford. In 1911 she is a widow living with Her son still at Park Lane. Joseph enlisted in the Royal Horse Artillery in WW1 .He was promoted to Corporal but was discharged in 1911 having been gassed. I printed off his Army Records as a matter of interest as my son served with the Royal Horse Artillery and we have close family who served and were lost in WW1 so it is of great interest to us.
Think maybe I better rest here as rather a lot of info to take in. Hope you can understand it all? I will try to throw light on the Heptinstall family tree if you are interested. Have you visited Wentworth Woodhouse?We were fortunate to have a visit bought as a Christmas present. A truly amazing place So pleased to hear that only this week the government are giving some money to help with restoration. It will take millions but every little bit helps. We have visited the village and Garden centre for many years now .I can recommend the book by Catherine Bailey ,Black Diamonds which gives an in site to the house and area. Many years ago we deliberately trespassed to find Woodnook cottage knowing the estate was out of bounds. We were stopped but when I explained what we were about the officious looking guards couldn't have been nicer and escorted us to it and were only too pleased to let us take photos. "Bit of an adventure! Hope to hear from you again Best Wishes "
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Thanks again
I totally agree subscriptions are quite expensive my Ancestry sub also runs out this Christmas and no there is not a reduced rate for renewal so I cancelled it til one comes around some other time.
I am not sure if you realise but I currently reside in New South Wales Australia having left the UK after I married 35 plus years ago. I have only been back twice in 1986 and 1994
Your info confirmed what I had and filled in a few gaps ie the surname of Elizabeth and which Jane it was - I had 3 options and couldn't determine the correct one so now I can recheck ancestry in the last few weeks before my access goes. I tried looking for Woodnock Cottage on the web but to no avail, yes would like info on Heptinstalls there are a number of name variations and I wasn't sure which is the correct spelling
kind regards
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Hi There ,no I had no idea that you were in Australia though I should have known with the flag. You will hardly have visited Wentworth Woodhouse then! look it up on the web and you will be impressed i'm sure. Hard to think that your ancestors were employed there. Woodnook cottage is deep in the woods surrounding Wentworth house as it is the gamekeepers cottage. If you have Google maps you may find it on there. Wentworth village also have their own site but I don't think it is shown on there.
Ann Heptinstall was born 1824 daughter of William Heptinstall b1778 Hickleton Yorks married Ann Laycock b 1783 Hawksworth Nth Yorkshire30/5/1803 at St Wilfreds Hickleton Yorks They had 13 children.William was the son of Jonathan Heptinstall b 1747 Billinghay Darfield Yorks and Mary Senior b 1749 maried at All Saints Darfield 1/12/1777.They had 10 childrenJohnathan was the son of Jonathan Heptinstall b 1713 at Hoylandswain Silkstone Yorks and Mary Senior b 1713.They had 4children.Jonathans father was James Heptinstall b1674 in Silkstone South Yorkshire and he married Hannah Shaw b 1674.They had 6 children .Finally James' father was Daniel Heptinstall b circa 1641and he married Sarah Burdit b circa 1641. This is what I have on the Heptinstall family.Hope you can make use of all this info.All the best in sorting out this latest info and look forward to hearing from you in the future.I expect it will be a bit warmer over there at the moment than it is here!!!Best Wishes
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Hi skala
I am hoping you can help since your last email on the Richardson and Heppenstall lines I updated my computer unfortunately the wrong tree got deleted when transferring information and by the time I realised the tree I had had too many changes to download an old back up file most of you info got deleted - I have downloaded your responses from Rootschat and starting to update my tree
I was hoping you may have a copy of Mary Ann birth and a copy of the marriage between her parents I cannot find them on ancestry anywhere
If you can help I can send a personal message with my email address
best regards
Ray
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Hi Man U I don't have a birth cert for Mary Ann but her baptism is available on Family Search and she is baptised as Marrianne Richardson at Wentworth Feb 22nd 1846.Her birth is on FREE BMD as Mary Ann registered March 1846 under Rotherham vol 22 page 534.
John Richardson married Ann Heptinstall 18/8/1845 at Wath Upon Dearne Parish Church.(An area of Rotherham not far from Wentworth)This is shown again on FREE BMD Rotherham Sept 1845 VOL 22 PAGE 394.I think confusion arises with the spelling of Ann's surname ,Heptinstall,Heptonstall Hepinstall etc.On the marriage cert it is shown as Hepelstone both for her and the father's name even though she signs Heptinstall.I do have a copy of the marriage cert if you would like this I can send to you.Best Wishes Skala
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Hi Man U hope you got my E-mail with the copies am sending you a copy of the only photo I have of Sevilla and William.Would love copies of any photos you have of the early family All the Best Skala
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Hi Skala and Man U, are either of you still around? I am a distant relative through the Richardson line and came across Mary Ann Richardson when she was 15 and recorded as being with my branch of the Richardsons in the 1861 census. I started to find out who she was and it just got more and more interesting especially her relationship and children with George Coggin. I have a question about one of Mary Ann's sons, Charles Coggin, bapt 1878. I have him living with his sister Savilla and her husband Walter Lee in 1911 in Droylsden and then there is a death record for a Charles Coggin in 1916 also in Droylsden. I am hoping someone might be able to confirm whether this is the same Charles?
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Hi Mitsi
Its a very long time since I have been on this site and did not realise the number of posts on Charles Coggin - I can confirm that Charles b1876 - died 1961 did live at 15 St Andrews Ave Droylsden when Savilla and Walter passed away their daughter Amy and husband Frank took over the house - I visited there many times as I lived in the same street back in the 50's
I have another Charles born 1840 but no death date he could have died 1916 but no research done on him yet (son of Joseph Coggin and Sarah Coggin nee Giles)
regards Manu
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Hi ManU, thank you for your reply which raises a few more questions for me. I was contacted by someone in Canada who was after information regarding a Charles Coggin born abt 1876 who had emigrated to Canada about 1912 and lived with their family for many years although not a relative. This Charles Coggin had died in 1968 aged 92 in Canada. So I was just trying to confirm where and when Charles Coggin the son of Mary Ann Richardson had died, which I thought was 1916 but which you advise was 1961. Did he die in Droylsden? It is incredible to think you have memories of the house and presumably Amy and Frank. I'm hoping I might some day find someone with memories of my actual Richardson ancestors.
Regards Val