RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: Designer Jeans on Tuesday 16 June 15 10:01 BST (UK)
-
Is anyone able to check the 1841 census for George and Priscilla Crouch please? Believed to be Oxfordshire.
Many thanks
Valerie
-
Age? pob?
I have found a George and Priscilla Crouch in same household -but they are teenagers and seem to be with parents??
Suz
-
Mm, the George I am looking for was probably born circa 1790 and his wife Priscilla circa 1797, but there might be a clue in there somewhere if you have the time to let me have full details of the family you have found please.
Valerie
-
Have you found the couple on a later census?
-
Yes, 1851 Canada ...
-
not in Oxford !!
1841
Beaulieu Southampton
John Crouch 40 lab
Frances 35
Priscilla 14
George 13
Stephen 10
Eliza 4
all b in county
HO107 402 1 30 16
Suz
-
I think I have them in Canada, living Pickering, Ontario, George b abt 1784 and Priscilla b abt 1795.
-
Thank you both for your help.
There is alleged to be a more suitable George and Priscilla living in Oxfordshire in 1841?? At this stage think the ones in Beaulieu are unconnected.
Not happy about George with a birth date of circa 1784. Priscilla (nee Wells) was born in 1796/7 and in Canada George consistently gave his age as being 7 years older ie born 1789/1790.
-
Got them in 1841, spellings a bit odd
Living in Roke, near Benson, Oxfordshire
Georg Cruch 52 occ Ag Lab
Pricila Cruch 44
John Cruch 15
Alfred Cruch 13
Francis Cruch 9
Geord Cruch 7
Celib Cruch 3
Eliza Cruch 1
All said to have been born in county (Oxon)
-
The children in 1841 seem to match quite well with those on the 1851 canada census.
Family search has a marriage for a John Crouch in Iowa, USA. He is said to have been born in Little Milton, Oxon, England in 1825, parents George Crouch and Priscilla Cam.
-
That's brilliant Lizzie, thank you so much.
I'm still trying to work out how this all fits together. Priscilla is referred to both as Wells and Cam, but as yet I haven't been able to find a marriage for either Priscilla Wells to a Mr Cam or to George Crouch, or a Priscilla Cam to George Crouch. No sign of a Priscilla Cam baptism either.
I had tried searching using wildcards, but hadn't got as far as Cruch and Priscilla seems to be spelt every which way!
Please very nicely, would you have time to let me have the Cruch entries on the 1841 census in Stadhampton? There must surely be a connection between them and the ones at Roke.
Again, many thanks
Valerie
-
Edward Cruch 35 Ag Lab
Pricilla Cruch 35
Mary Cruch 10
Emma Cruch 8
Jane Cruch 3
James Cruch 9 months
Martha Cruch 60 (recorded as lodger then crossed out)
Living at Cold Harbour house, Stadhampton. All born Oxfordshire
No relationships given, but Martha could be Edward's widowed mother.
Separate family, same address
Martin Cruch 55 1786
Sarah Cruch 45
Elizabeth Cruch 20
Edward Cruch 13
Sarah Cruch 10
Rachel Cruch 5
All born Oxfordshire
-
The birth of 9 month old James has been registered in quarter 3 1840 Abingdon district as James Crutch Vol 6 page 118.
and 1 year old Eliza registered as Eliza Crutch Quarter 2 1840, Wallingford District Vol 6 page 255.
Added
Found Martin and Family in 1851 - it comes up in Berkshire because Abingdon is in Berkshire, although Stadhampton is in Oxfordshire.
Martin Cruch Head 67 (1784) Ag Lab b Ascott, Oxfordshire
Sarah Cruch Wife 57 (1794) b Aston Sandford, Buckinghamshire
Thomas Cruch Son Unmarried 36 (1815 ) Ag Lab Ascott, Oxfordshire
Edward Cruch Son Unmarried 22 (1829) Ag Lab b Stadhampton
Rachel Cruch Daughter 15 (1836) b Stadhampton
Also Edward and the other Priscilla:
Edward Cruch Head 44 (1807) Ag Lab b Milton, Oxfordshire
Priscilla Cruch Wife 44 1807 Ascott, Oxfordshire
Mary A Cruch Daughter 19 (1832 ) b Stadhampton
Jane Cruch Daughter 12 (1839) b Stadhampton
James Cruch Son 10 (1841) b Stadhampton
William Cruch Son 8 (1843 ) b Stadhampton
Joseph Cruch Son 5 (1846) b Stadhampton
Sarah Cruch Daughter 2 (1849 ) b Stadhampton
I can't find Martin on later censuses, but Edward is on 1861 and 1871. In 1861 he is widowed, living with him are Mary Ann, James, William, Joseph and Sarah (all unmarried) and two grandsons, Samuel 7 b Abingdon and Richard 1 b Stadhampton, both with Cruch surname, so could be illegitimate children of a daughter. Death registered of Priscilla Crutch Abingdon district Q3 1855.
Death reg of Martin Crutch in Q1 1857
In 1871, William and Sarah are still living with Edward and there are two additional grandchildren, George 6 and Ellen 2 both born Stadhampton. Samuel not with the family
-
Love it, love it, love it - thank you so much.
It's taken a long while to find Eliza, her birth certificate will (hopefully) clarify a bit more about Priscilla.
Re the other Priscilla, apparently Edward Crutch married his cousin Priscilla (nee Crutch) who was the illegitimate daughter of Martha Crutch!
Thanks again
Valerie
-
Hi
This marriage may help a little bit?
12 Sept 1831 St John The Baptsist Church, Stadhampton after banns b otp
X CRUCH EDWARD
X CRUCH PRISCILLA
Wits:
X William HUMPHRIES
X Elizabeth BURTON
-
Yes, every little helps thank you
This is the "other" Priscilla.
I am really struggling to find anything, other than the 1841 census, for the bpt of George Crouch/Cruch/Crutch probably born in Little Milton circa 1790 and the bpt of a Priscilla either Wells or Cam circa 1797 and appropriate marriages circa 1816.
Was the "other Priscilla" named after the elusive Priscilla??
Valerie
-
Valerie
I have the parish records open for Little Milton and NO Crutch, Crouch etc spelling variants anywhere in the baptisms.
There is one in marriages for a Jane Crutch -Banns - 1860 Banns read on 2, 9 & 16 Dec for Frederick Augur of Little Milton and Jane CRUTCH of Stadhampton.
Nothing again for this last name in Burials.
Nigel
-
Cant see a baptism for a George Crutch (spelling variants) in Stadhampton either I'm afraid.
-
However - result for you - I do have the marriage of!!!!!!
George Crutch to Priscilla Cam on 10 March 1817 after banns at St Marys Church, Great Milton he was a bach otp and she was a spinster otp. The witnesses were: William Hood & Joseph Coleman (he did loads)
Nigel
-
You are a genius, I can't thank you enough! Now so many questions …
Was Priscilla Cam bpt in Great Milton?
Where was George Crutch bpt?
Where were all the little Crutch's bpt?
and how and where does Wells, the other name that Priscilla used fit into all this???
Once again big thank you for your help
Valerie
-
Valerie
I wonder if you can consolidate what you now know - given the replies on here - into a summary so that we can have a chance of going forward helping you with your search for your somewhat elusive rellies please?
Nigel
-
Just to help you understand the parish records.
Little Milton was a chapelry of Great Milton until 1844 after which time Little Milton held its own records. Whilst a chapelry the records were held / kept / maintained at Great Milton which began records in 1550.
I cannot see a baptism of Priscilla CAMM nor WELLS in any of these records nor anything that is close except:
Burial on 18 Feb 1795 in Great Milton of Priscilla CAMM d o Thomas and Elizabeth CAMM of Little Milton.
Sadly I cannot see her baptism butttt I wonder if Thomas and Elizabeth had another daughter after 1795 to whom they gave the first name Priscilla but no baptism to prove this!!
I cannot see a connection via marriage or stated father of an illegitimate child etc between CAMM and WELLS.
Running out of options here perhaps the consolidation info I spoke of earlier may help if you can do one?
Nigel
-
Going back to the Canadian census (1860 ), for George's religion it said WM - does this mean some type of non-conformist.
Perhaps the children were baptised in a NC chapel near Stadhampton or Little or Great Milton
-
Thank you again Nigel and Lizzie. I am helping a colleague whose ancestors are George Crouch and Priscilla Can with her research. Family legend refers to Priscilla sometimes as Cam and sometimes as Wells.
Children of George Cruch/Crutch/Crouch and Priscilla (now known to be nee Cam) are
Elizabeth 1817-182?
Charles 1821-1837
Jane 1823-1827
John 1826
Alfred 1830
Thomas 1831
Francis 1832
George 1834
Caleb 1838
Eliza born 16/4/1840
In the 1841 census they were living in Roke, all born Oxfordshire.
They appear in Canada in the 1851 census.
There is anecdotal evidence that their first child Elizabeth was born and buried in Ludgershall, Wilts. I am now wondering whether this should be Ludgershall, Berks?
According to the census returns George was born in 1790 and Priscilla in 1797. The seven year age gap is consistent through all census returns.
At the marriage of George and Priscilla's son John, his place of birth is given as Little Milton.
George died in 1864 and Priscilla died in 1876.
Think that is all that is known. Anything that you can unearth would be much appreciated.
Not sure what WM might mean - Weslyan Methodist perhaps?
Valerie
-
Valerie -
I am really struggling to find anything, other than the 1841 census, for the bpt of George Crouch/Cruch/Crutch probably born in Little Milton circa 1790 and the bpt of a Priscilla either Wells or Cam circa 1797 and appropriate marriages circa 1816.
Valerie
You say you're "struggling to find anything" - but you don't say where you've looked!!
Many of Oxfordshire's parish registers aren't on the internet.
Oxfordshire Family History Society has transcribed the parish registers of Oxfordshire, and it's those transcripts which some of those helping you have used.
However, the Society has also compiled county-wide indexes of baptisms, marriages and burials, which can be used to complement the trranscripts on CD.
I suggest you have searches done for the events you're seeking :-)
Go to Surname Search Services at the left at www.ofhs.org.uk
Wendy
OFHS HelpDesk
-
Thanks for your input Wendy. Only very recently managed to place George and Priscilla Cruch/Crutch/Crouch in Oxfordshire. Their census entries in Canada and the US unhelpfully state that they were born in England, so have been looking in all counties. Will follow up your suggestions.
Valerie
-
Nigel,
I am a new member that Valerie was helping regarding George Crouch and Percilla. I see you found and after marriage bann for them somewhere. I would like to have a copy of this, but do
not know where to start. I live in the U.S. Can you help me?
Sharon
-
Hi Sharon
Welcome to Roots chat where I know you will find so much help and loads of like minded folks who are always exploring the past in some way or other to help each other.
I like many others have purchased the Oxfordshire Family History Society (OFHS) CD's on to which have been transcribed the Parish Records from many parish churches around Oxfordshire and part of neighboring Royal Berkshire which was transfered to Oxfordshire in 1974.
Over the centuries many county boundaries were moved in and out of the adjoining counties just to make this exciting hobby so much e .... harder!!!.
My first recommendation would be to join the OFHS from where you too can purchase so, so much information and seek the help of very knowledgeable people. WE all help on here and on the Oxfordshire board many of us have purchased the OFHS CD's, I personally have a collection of records from the OFHS which I have bought over the years at a cost of almost £1k - no small amount. I shall look up the info Valerie asks about in her last post but I do think that you would benefit from having at least 2 CD's to hand at home - They would be OXF-AB03 for Stadhampton and OXF-TH03 for Great and Little Milton's.
There are many other sources of information, Marriage Index , Baptism Index etc etc see their on line catalogue the link is in Wendy Archers comments above under IFFLEY.
When you have posted I think 3 replies on here you can use the PM facility to contact each other and then we can trade mail addresses which will be easier .
So the records I looked at are not the originals they are held by the Oxfordshire County Archives at 'St Lukes', Cowley Rd, Oxford which is part of the local government Oxfordshire County Council. Google them, they too will help you as well. But to see an original parish record - if it has been deposited, some are with the church it self, you have to go to St Lukes. But it may be possible, perhaps through here, to get some one to see the actual register and take a photo of it? Or simply come over to England and explore the records your self - easier said than done?
Does this help - I hope so? If you need ANY more info then do ask wont you?
Nigel
-
Valerie / Sharon
The first 5 are from the Great Milton Parish Records:
Elizabeth CRUTCH 1817-182? - Baptised 2 Dec 1817 d o George a labourer and Priscilla of Ascot (you can now see Ascot on the Ordnance Survey Maps, Ascot Farm to the East of Stadhampton). Buried aged 7 on 12 April 1925 of Little Milton
Charles CRUTCH 1821-1837 - the Charles who was baptised 12 Aug 1821 was s o George and Charlotte of Little Milton - I think this may be a mistake as there is no other record of a George and Charlotte? Cannot see the burial in Great nor Little Milton so this needs more investigation
Jane 1823-1827 - Baptised 26 Oct 1823 d o George and Priscilla of Little Milton. Buried 24 June 1827 aged 4 yrs
John 1826 - Baptised 26 March 1826 s o George and Priscilla of Little Milton
Alfred 1830 - Baptised 9 Aug 1829 so George and Priscilla of Little Milton
From here it begins to get a little complicated because the remaining children are not listed in Great nor Little Milton. Nor are they listed in Stadhampton so I assume the family were attending a different church / es or they had moved away.
At this time Edward Crutch and Priscilla begin having children baptised in Stadhampton where at the same time and on occasions Martin and Sarah CRUTCH are also having children baptised. They do not use the same first names for their children as George and Priscilla. They were close, as both these Stadhampton couples shared the same service day for baptisms of their children. I suspect Martina and Edward were brothers.
This is a classic example of why you need the CD's because in slow time you can or most likely can, unpick each of the children and parents, grand parents etc to see where they may have been living or baptised etc before leaving for Canada.
A point to note was that iF a church was offering relief (financial support or otherwise) to the community it was quite usual (in my experience) for a family to move from one church to another if better relief was on offer!!
So at this time I cannot see the baptisms for
Thomas 1831 -
Francis 1832
George 1834
Caleb 1838
Eliza born 16/4/1840
If you join and ask OFHS they may (for a small fee) find them on their baptismal index for the county and that will help no end. Currently that baptismal index for Oxfordshire is one CD that does not yet appear to be for sale!!
If you can find out where they may have been living during this periods tell me and I will see what I can find.
Hope thsi all helps?
Nigel
-
I suspect Martina and Edward were brothers.
There's quite an age difference between Edward and Martin.
From censuses, year and places of birth are:
Martha b 1777 - 1781 (age 60 rounded in 1841)b Oxon
Martin b 1784 Ascott.
George b 1789 Oxon poss Little Milton.
Edward b 1807 (Little) Milton
Priscilla b 1807 Ascott (Edward's wife)
If Edward and Priscilla Cruch were cousins, then somewhere there is Edward's father who would be Martha's brother.
Possibly related are:
Mary Crutch b 1786 Askot (sic) Oxon - unmarried, living, Chearsley, Bucks on 1851 census. In 1861, Mary is with her daughter and son in law (James and Mary Piddington) in Upper Winchendon. Her status is widow, but it does look as if something has been overwritten. birth place is Asket, but definitely says Oxon not Bucks. Maybe enumerator or son in law more familiar with spelling of Askett near Monks Risborough
William Crutch b abt 1814 Ascott, Oxon - chimney sweep, living Watlington with wife Sarah and family in 1851.
Another Cruch family living in Stadhampton in 1851
John b abt 1816 Brookhampton
wife Ann b abt 1823 Stadhampton, children Henry, John and Sarah. Also in household Thomas Impey visitor 4 years old b Stadhampton.
In 1871 this John is a widower living with his unmarried brother Thomas. Thomas was born in Ascot, Oxon about 1813.
So quite potential family building up.
Added
Thomas born Ascott looks like the one with Martin in 1851 (unmarried son), so Thomas and John would seem to be Martin's sons.
-
Just found James Piddington's marriage to Mary Crutch jnr on 6 Feb 1840, her father is named as Jonah Rose (a carrier). James was a widower. So it looks as though Mary snr was unmarried and Cru(t)ch was her maiden name.
-
There is an old thread on RootsWeb which mentions that Martin Crutch married Sarah (Higgins) in Great Milton on 2 Nov 1812 (would need to be verified by someone with access to the records).
The same thread also has baptism of William Crutch (date matches with that of the chimney sweep) son of Martha (servant).
From the years of birth and birth places where known, I suspect Martin and Edward's father were brothers and also brothers to Martha, Mary and George
-
Hi to all.
I have purposely held back as I see much info has already been supplied by others.
It would appear that George & Priscilla baptised their children either in Little Milton or Benson.
I list below the baptisms I have found in Benson just to add "some meat to the bones";
18-3-1832 Francis Crouch s/o George & Priscilla, labr, of Roke
18-5-1834 George Crutch " " " " "
16-3-1836 Emma " d/o " " " "
8-4-1838 Caleb " s/o " " " "
17-5-1840 Eliza Crouch d/o " " " Benson
Burials;
30-3-1836 Emma Crutch aged 3 weeks, of Roke
27-9-1838 Charles " " 17 "
This is the extent of Crutch/Crouch etc in the Benson. Extracted from the Cd OXF-WAL02 from the OxfordFHS
Hope it helps.
Alan
-
Alan - Really nice find with the Benson connection, very interesting
Lizzie - Great information and finds, very impresive, you've hooked me, it is becoming so interesting!!!
Valerie - are you still in on this?
Sharon - are you taking up the quest from Valerie? If you are going to buy at least the OXF-TH03 CD from OFHS I wont add much more info as it will spoil your search and resulting finds for you.
Lizzie
I agree Edward and Martin are more likely cousins and looking at the PR's the information is all there on the CD but until Sharon answers above I'm not going to add more in here and risk finding all her answers. But I suspect like you would like to see them in here for all to read???
But as a answer to a couple of points
These are the baptisms listed in the Gt Milton PR's and some detail:
CRUTCH Alfred 1829
CRUTCH Charles 1821
CRUTCH Edward 1807
CRUTCH Edward 1835
CRUTCH Elizabeth 1817
CRUTCH Elizabeth 1818
CRUTCH Jane 1823
CRUTCH John 1798
CRUTCH John 1826
CRUTCH Martin 1785
CRUTCH Mary 1812
CRUTCH Mary 1821
CRUTCH Priscilla 1807
CRUTCH Richard 1794
CRUTCH Sarah Lilian 1905
CRUTCH Thomas 1813
CRUTCH William 1809
CRUTCH William 1813
Martin Crutch baptised 2 Oct 1785 s o Thomas and Mary of Ascot
George Crouch baptised 25 May 1790 s o Thomas and Mary of Ascot
Richard baptised 12 Jan 1794 s o Thomas and Mary of Ascot
John baptised 27 May 1798 s o Thomas and Mary of Ascot
Priscilla Crutch baptised 15 Feb 1807 d o Mary. bastard - Ascot
Edward Crutch baptised 26 Apr 1807 s o James and Mary of Ascot
-
Wow, Crutches everywhere now!
So where does the elderly Martha who was with Edward and Priscilla and family in 1841 fit in? If Priscilla Crutch was the illeg daughter of Mary (not Martha), she would be the sister of the Mary who married James Piddington (I think).
-
Blimey Moses!
Just got in from work and thought I would have a quick cup of tea and see how the Crutch family were doing…. I never expected in a million years that you guys would have come up with such amazing info, thank you all for taking so much time and trouble.
This family is nothing to do with me, but it is compulsive, and so, yes, still in there Nigel. Now, off to get a large sheet of paper and draw up some trees. Methinks it will have to be beans on toast for supper.
Back asap
Valerie
-
Hi again Valerie
Beans on toast - mmm- yep that will do very nicely!!
I think this whole aspect needs more consolidation by you and probably Sharon so that you can focus on what you have been given and what you may need in the future otherwise it is getting overwhelming isn't it and so much info . I told Sharon there was a great deal of very kind and very clever people in here and she is getting that on this thread.
So have a look at what you have and do let me know if you think I can help more.
Enjoy supper
Nigel
-
Nigel and LizzieL and Valerie,
Yes, I am taking up the quest with all your information and help.
I see that Valerie is still with me, and I am greatful to her. I did not think that she could lay this one down, she got too involved and I love it. I am so greatful for all your hard work and interest. I can't thank you all enough. I am learning so much, getting records I didn't even know how to access from here in the states. I guess you have to call be a beginner.
I will be buying the CD but would still like all your input as you seem to under stand the history and culture of you country better then I do. I am taking this all in and I love it.
Just want to inject here. My Mother lived with and was raised with Percilla's grand daughter, Eliza Alice Nelson. Eliza lived in Benson, Iowa U.S. while Percilla was still alive and young. This story was told to my Mother by her grandmother Eliza who was told the story by Percilla.
I looked up Wells in England and their royality, Percilla would have been of age to be out and about. I am not ready to give up on her story yet. I just can not quite believe it is all made up. Especially sence my cousin went to York this year and was told that there was a Wells girl that ran away with her mail coachman and the family turned their backs on them. She brought back the
information but has misplaced it. Sad!
The George Caleb Crouch I have on my tree was born inCollingbourne Kingston, Wiltshire. He has a brother William. His parents are John Crouch 1758 and Jenny White 1760. I am hearing he may not be the correct George Crouch?
I too am getting a bigger piece of paper.
Thank you all again, later.
Sharon - California - US
-
I have a lot of new information to working on.
I still will welcome any information others want to share. :)
Thank you again.
Sharon
-
Sorry Sharon, George Crouch of Collingbourne Kingston isn't yours (I never did like the look of him).
Your George is the son of Thomas and Mary Crutch of Ascot baptised 25/5/1790
From the excellent help we have been given today his family is
Children of Thomas and Mary Crutch of Ascot
Martha 1781 (?) (son William chimney sweep)
Martin 2/10/1785 mar Sarah Higgins
**Mary 1786 (spinster)
George 25/5/1790 mar Priscilla Cam
Richard 12/1/1794
John 27/5/1798
I have found references on old Roots Web threads to another brother, James 1772 (mar Ann Neville born 1774) who is reputed to be the father of the Edward bpt 1807 who married his cousin Priscilla 12/9/1831, but that gives a big gap in children between 1772 and 1781?
**15/2/1807 Priscilla 15/2/1807 bastard d/o Mary
Chearsley
29/3/1812 Rosetta illeg dau of Mary Crutch
14/5/1815 Mary illeg dau of Mary Cruch (mar James Piddington)
17/8/1834 George illeg son of Mary Crutch of Chearsley
I think that is what is known as a repeater!
Sharon to confirm, but I think the list of George and Priscilla's children were the only facts we started with.
Any sightings of Priscilla Cam would be most welcome.
Once again, thank you all, what teamwork!
Valerie
-
Valerie,
You mean I have to tell my cousin in Wiltshire she is not my cousin. :'(
We are now good friends, and that will not change. :)
Working on a new tree. I will have to be notifying all the ancestry members that have
trusted my work about the new George Crouch and family. So greatful for yours and
the teams work.
I will be in touch,
Sharon
-
George and Priscilla Crouch's son Francis born in 1832 is my husband's 3rd Great Grandfather, I have been trying to help him put together his family tree. My husband Gerald was born in Ontario around the same area where the Crouch family settled after they came from England, it seems they came to Canada around 1848 and lived East Gwillimbury which is around the Pickering area.
It seems that after George Crouch died Francis's mother Priscilla and his brothers and sisters left Ontario leaving Francis there and they move down to the US. We find out that somehow we being the descendants of Francis we have the T in the Crouch name (Croutch) while as the rest of the other part of the family are Crouch. Priscilla has the Croutch name with a T on her headstone and also say she was born May 19 1798, died Jan 5 1876, aged 77 ys 7 ms and 17 days, her grave is in Benton, Iowa, US.
I have been working with Sharon trying to find where in England they came from, I seem to think that Yorkshire is connected because of the community in Ontario they live were mostly Yorkshire Native.
I hope to hear from you all that might be interested and give us any details that you know of.
I am hoping we all can get some answers and we need all the help we can get.
From Evelyn and Gerald in British Columbia, Canada.
-
**15/2/1807 Priscilla 15/2/1807 bastard d/o Mary
Chearsley
29/3/1812 Rosetta illeg dau of Mary Crutch
14/5/1815 Mary illeg dau of Mary Cruch (mar James Piddington)
17/8/1834 George illeg son of Mary Crutch of Chearsley
I suspect that George (1834) was the son of Mary jnr (b 1815), her mother would be a bit old by then. George Crutch age 4 is with James and Mary Piddington in 1841. I think I have also found George in 1861, as George Crouch b Chearsley abt 1835 Ag lab cowman, with wife Sarah and daughter Elizabeth age 4. Living at Stone near Aylesbury.
Mary jnr named a father (Jonah Rose) on her marriage record. This sounds genuine - if made up, the illegitimate child would usually give the same surname for the father as her own. It implies that Mary snr and Jonah were in an accepted non-married relationship and quite possible Rosetta is also theirs (Rose - Rosetta - using a variation of father's surname as forename?).
-
Hi
There is an old thread on RootsWeb suggesting that Thomas and Mary at the top of the tree were from Bicester, but that it has not been possible to substantiate this.
Also apparently, the IGI has Mary dau of Martin and Elizabeth Crutch bpt 9/10/1791 Chesterton, Oxon.
Possible that Thomas and Martin were brothers?
Valerie
-
I had forgotten I had this.
A Little booklet from the past.
This little booklet was found in a box of family records.
It may have belonged to Percilla.
It is bound on one edge by thread and is on plain paper about 4 x 6, and is very old.
Notice how her name is spelled Prissler and the t in Croutch.
It appears that Percilla may have kept a record of all her children's birth.
Her birth date.
George's birth date and death date.
Her marriage date.
The is what is in those pages:
Elizabeth was born Dec 16, 1817
Thomas was born Oct 11, 1819 Was Married Aug 27,1842
Charles was born July 21, 1821
Jane was born Oct 2, 1823
John was born Feb 21, 1826
Alfred was born April 21, 1828
Alfred was born July 21, 1829
Frances was born Feb 17, 1832
George was born April 21, 1834
Emma was born Mar 10, 1836
Caleb was born Mar 19, 1838
Eliza was born April 16, 1840
George Croutch was born 21 June, 1792 died June 29, 1864
Prissler Croutch was born May 19, 1797
Prissler was married Mar 10, 1816
.
These dates are all written down in a handmade thread bound booklet. I think I need to stick with these dates.
She did not put down in what town they were born.
Eliza said she was born in Yorkshire.
I know that Pricilla died 1/5/1876 in Benton, Iowa US. Below I copied from the headstone page.
PRICILLA CROUTCH
Mound Cemetery
Benton County, Iowa
Born: [May 19, 1798] Died: jan. 5, 1876
Aged 77 Ys 7 Ms 17 Ds
Sharon - US
-
That's a brilliant find - never throw anything away, no matter how small and insignificant it may look. The dates of birth fit perfectly with baptisms at 3 to 4 weeks old.
Poor Priscilla must have been perpetually pregnant.
-
Hi everyone
This seems to be playing out really well and the booklet you found Sharon gives, as Lizzie says such valuable information.
Sharon when you are ready if you need another look up just let me know.
Nigel
-
Thanks Nigel, I will.
I've went through all of the information on chat and took out what belongs to my family.
I have great information on where the children were born, baptised and where some were buried.
There are a lot of Crouches there and I know some are siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. I'll be working on those later.
Thank you all again, I have some great information.
Sharon
-
Oh my goodness... I just about fell out of my chair. I was doing yet another search for George Crouch & Pricilla Camm and found this thread. Back in 1976 when I married my husband he took me to visit his family in North Gwillimbury, York County, Ontario.
His aunt gave me this information orally so this is what I wrote in our family history book, "George Cruntch & Pricilla Camm emigrated from Oxford Shear, England to Montreal, PQ in 1850 on the ship, "ALFRED", along with their 8 children, leaving 4 small graves behind."
It wasn't until we joined Ancestry, however, that we really started digging into the Nelson family history and discovered the East Gwillimbury Croutch family and followed the Nelson family down to Iowa. Soon after, we ran into Sharon. (Waving to Sharon in California). Sharon's generosity was such a tremendous blessing because she shared images of Eliza Crouch and Henry Nelson - my husband's 2x great grandparents, and the rest of the Nelson family. My husband (also called Nelson) just stared and stared at the images Sharon sent us. It was a very moving experience.
Yet I couldn't find any records of a ship Alfred coming to Canada as the Alfred seemed to make her runs to Austrailia. And the growth of our tree stopped at George and Priscilla because we couldn't confirm her maiden name - until now. Valerie, we are indebted to you and the rest of the team here that helped us solve this roadblock.
As for clarification of the T in Crouch... I was contacted through the genealogy blog on my website by a woman who lives in the East Gwillimbury area and she said:
"My ggggrandfather was Francis Croutch of the Sharon area of Ontario. I am trying to find out what his roots are. My father had a family story.The story relates that the T was placed in the name of a child to distinguish the child of a first marriage. Somewhere around 1812. So that a Crouch from England married a lady who already had a child."
Upon researching Francis Croutch here in Ontario, I found the marriage record for Francis Croutch and Elizabeth Smith who married 7 Mar 1853 in Pickering Township, Ontario. (Pickering is southeast of East Gwillimbury Township).
However, although I haven't found a birth record for their 1st child - Thomas Smith Croutch - indications point that he may not have been the son of Francis:
1. His middle name is Smith which in Ontario records often means it was an illegitimate child therefore bore the name of the mother.
2. He appears to have been born in 1852 or 53 since he is not shown on the 1851 Canada census which was actually taken in January 1852. Here are his Canada census records although I realize dates can be a year or two off:
- 1861 shows age 8 transcribed as 1853
- 1871 " 18 " 1853
- 1881 " 28 " 1853
- 1891 " 38 " 1853
- 1901 49 " 1851
- 1911 " 58 " 1853
- 1872 marriage record shows age 20 transcribed as 1852
- 1916 death record where it shows he died on May 18, 1916 at 63 yrs, 8 mos, 24 dys which would put his birth in Aug 1953 according to my dismal math.
Yet, Francis Croutch and Elizabeth Smith married 7 Mar 1853. That still leaves the question whether Francis was the actual father.
No, it doesn't explain why Francis uses a T in Croutch when he married Elizabeth, but my Crouch contact doesn't use the T and says it's because she is not descended from Thomas Smith Croutch, but one of his brothers.
And now instead of working/writing, I will email my Crouch contact and share my good news - but first, I'm going to dance around the living room.
:D
Anitamae
-
::) Whoops... after all that, I went back and double checked and my Croutch source DOES have a T in her name.
All I can say in my defence is that I've just returned from a trip to York County where I attended the Ontario Genealogical Conference and then spent 35 days meeting cousins and tramping around libraries, museums, and cemeteries in York and Simcoe Counties and I guess my information is a bit jumbled. Humbling to admit, but true.
Yes, I'm still dancing around the living room, albeit subdued.
Anitamae.
-
Hello Anitamae
As you say, Rootschat, and the people on it are amazing, and you are very welcome.
Valerie
-
I have just been alerted to this thread by Anitamae.
My Cruch/Crutch/Crouch family is the one mentioned previously on Page 5 of this thread by Valerie.
Chearsley
29/3/1812 Rosetta illeg dau of Mary Crutch
14/5/1815 Mary illeg dau of Mary Cruch (mar James Piddington)
17/8/1834 George illeg son of Mary Crutch of Chearsley
I have only recently found out that Mary Crutch senior born c 1785 was born in Ascott nr Great Milton rather than Asket, nr Princes Risborough, thanks to another thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783975.0
Valerie, you also say -
Children of Thomas and Mary Crutch of Ascot
Martha 1781 (?) (son William chimney sweep)
Martin 2/10/1785 mar Sarah Higgins
**Mary 1786 (spinster)
George 25/5/1790 mar Priscilla Cam
Richard 12/1/1794
John 27/5/1798
I can find no baptism for Mary in Great Milton records, am I looking in the wrong place ???
Regards Margaret
-
Margaret
This is an excerpt from the British History on line which goes a small way to describing what was the hamlet of Ascott Near Great Milton in Oxfordshire. I think you are looking the correct place by all the information presented on this and other threads but it is quite complicated.
Of Milton's other hamlets Ascot once had a large manor-house, a medieval chapel, and at least three farmhouses. (fn. 81) Little is left now except Ascot Farm, an L-shaped, half-timbered and brick house, dating from the 16th and 17th centuries, and a few other survivals of the great house and its appendages. Ascot was the home for several generations of various members of the Great Milton branch of the Dormer family: Sir Michael Dormer acquired it in 1518, and it passed to his son Ambrose (d. 1566). (fn. 82) Ambrose's widow Jane, who had a life-interest in the house, (fn. 83) took as her second husband William Hawtrey, a London merchant and an original member of the Muscovy company. (fn. 84) In her will made in 1581, Jane speaks of her plate and household stuff at 'my mansion house and grounds called Ascott', (fn. 85) and it seems probable that the Hawtreys lived at Ascot. There were at least four other Dormer-Hawtrey marriages and William Hawtrey's younger brother Thomas, also a merchant of the Muscovy Company, (fn. 86) appears to have stayed in the Ascot house at the end of his life. He made his will there, left a bequest of 10s. to the Vicar of Milton, and was buried in Great Milton church. (fn. 87) Some details about the building in the time of Sir Michael Dormer, Ambrose's son, have survived. There were at least twelve bed-chambers, including a gate-house chamber, and a long gallery is also mentioned. (fn. 88) It is likely that the house suffered from Hampden's raid on Ascot in 1642 (fn. 89) when he demanded its surrender; it was in any case rebuilt by Sir William Dormer in the 1660's. He was known as William 'the Splendid' and it is evident that his mansion was planned on a large scale, but it was accidentally damaged by fire in 1662 before its completion. (fn. 90) It is said that it was 'burnt down', (fn. 91) but either some of it was left or it was rebuilt, for William Dormer paid tax on twelve hearths for this house in 1665, and Plot shows it as a four-chimneyed house on his map of 1697. (fn. 92) It was evidently used as a dower house until at least 1728. (fn. 93) Davis shows a house there in 1797; he also shows the park, the formal inclosed garden, and a chapel in the grounds. (fn. 94) Nothing is left now of the house or its outbuildings except for a 17th-century dove-house, granary, and summer-house. The dove-cot has wall faces of vitreous and red brick, with diamond, chevron, and chequer patterns; the eaves string is arched and cusped. The brick granary is octagonal and has a vaulted cellar. The summer-house is built of rubble with ashlar dressings; it is of two stories and has a hipped roof. It is now a dwelling house called Piccadilly Cottage and has been added to and modernized. Seventeenth-century walls of terraces and the gate-posts of the main entrance to the grounds survive. The last have stone piers, cornice heads, and ball finials, and are flanked by avenues of lime trees. A wrought-iron gate of 18th-century date and an early 17th-century gateway of stone, once in the park, are now in the Victoria and Albert Museum. (fn. 95)
The chapel, a private one attached to the manorhouse, was built probably soon after 1200 and remained until 1823, when it was pulled down. (fn. 96) It consisted of chancel and nave, with a central bellcot over the chancel-arch; both nave and chancel were originally lighted by lancet windows, but two of these on the south side were replaced by twolight Decorated windows in the 14th century. When Powell visited it in 1805 he found it 'in ruins'. There were wall paintings in red in the nave depicting the passion of Christ, scourging, crucifixion, descent into hell, and appearance to Mary Magdalen. (fn. 97) A drawing of the chapel from the south was made in 1811 when the building was still entire. (fn. 98) Another of 1813 shows it roofless. (fn. 99)
Hope this helps
Nigel