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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cornwall Lookup Requests => Cornwall => England => Cornwall Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Burrow Digger on Saturday 18 July 15 15:20 BST (UK)
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And here I am - back again. ;D
10 years ago when I was doing my Stephens line from St Winnow in Cornwall, I came across two marriages that had me confused. Sophia Adams married to Thomas Stephens in 1827 and her parents were listed in the IGI as Joseph Adams and Joan Morish. They were married in 1802.
And Thomas Stephens parents were listed as James Stephens and Charity Adams, married in 1785 - at least one or two generations earlier. I figured that Charity and Sophia were related in some way but did not follow that up.
Last week I discovered the Philimore Marriages for St Winnow were online and as I read through them looking for Stephens', I came across this marriage - Joseph Stephens married to Joan Morish in 1802
So I need to know for sure. I have a Joseph stephens married to Joan Morish in 1802 and a Joseph adams also married to Joan Morish also in 1802. Which one is correct?
Which set of parents is right for Sophia adams and how were Charity and Sophia Adams actually related? And remember that they both married a Stephens....
This is all pre-registration but St Winnow has very good records. I have OPR baptisms for St winnow from 1705 to 1850, plus the Philimore marriages from early 1600s to 1812.
I have also been given some marriages from st winnow 1812 to 1837 from David Coppins, the OPC for St Winnow.
Thanks for any help you can give or information you can confirm. :)
BD
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Freereg has the following:
Place St Winnow, Cornwall
Marriage Date 22 Oct 1802
Joseph STEPHENS
Occupation Yeoman
Bride Joan MORISH
Can you remember whether the IGI was a submitted record? If so it may not be correct.
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Cornwall FHS has the marriage to Joseph Stephens as does the OPC database.
The scans of Cornwall registers on FamilySearch have only some burials for St Winnow.
There was a John Adams who married in the parish 7 Jun 1802, he was also a yeoman.
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The John Adams who married on the 7th June 1802 married Ann Penrose according to Freereg.
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Sophia Stephens was buried 6 Dec 1885 aged 82.
1851 census in St Winnow has her father Joseph Adams aged 75 living with them. Their neighbours are Thomas Stephens aged 81 & his 77 year old wife Jane. HO107/1904 folio 15 pg 1
Possible marriage for this couple
Thomas Stephens & Jennifer Stephens 9 May 1790 in St Winnow, groom was of St Dennis at the time.
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So I will have to go with the 1851 census and have Joseph Adams and Joan Morish as Sophia's parents.
Joseph Adams turns out to be the sister of Charity Adams, who married James Stephens in 1785. Joseph and Charity's parents were Thomas Adams and Mary Cheley who were married in 1763.
The John Adams who married Ann Penrose is another brother to both Joseph and Charity and therefore a daughter of Thomas Adams and Mary chely.
Now I still need to find out who Joseph Stephens married and even which one he is. I have several Joseph Stephens' in my family tree, but none of them fit the age to be married in 1802.
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Thomas Adams was buried in St Winnow 9 March 1825noted as aged 82 & of Lanlivery. The Cornwall Record Office have his will ref AP/A/1153 Will of Thomas Adams yeoman of Lanlivery 1825.
The records office also has a lease for Tredethick, St Winnow from 1793 on three lives which mentions Thomas Adams and his 15 year old daughter Mary. This tenement was part of Polscoath Manor. Thomas was on the rent roll for Polscoath in 1811.
You can get a copy of the will from the archives by post
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/community-and-living/records-archives-and-cornish-studies/enquiry-and-copy-services/
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Thank you for that, Osprey. That was new information about his death date I did not have before. :)
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Hi, I discovered CHARITY ADAMS (born Saint Winnow c. 1764-1766) when I was researching the ADAMS connection to the HARRIS family, through CHARITY's sister REBEKAH ADAMS born 1771. This thread has been most helpful in establishing names, dates and places - even if I end up eliminating this particular family as not being that of our REBECCA ADAMS. I note that this particular family don't seem to show on the Cornwall Parish Records page, but there's quite a full family tree on Family Search (LDS) site. There are some discrepancies, but it's clear that CHARITY is the daughter of THOMAS and MARY as her youngest child is called Henry CHEALY STEPHENS - a nod to her mother MARY's maiden name, given as CHELEY in the parish records (that one is available on the Cornish Parish Register site). There are a few REBECCA ADAMS who could be the mother of my ancestress GRACE ADAMS (born Trewen, 1792), and it certainly is a detective's job to reduce and eliminate the non-likely contenders.
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mci/
this is the will for Thomas Adams. It names
wife Catherine
son Thomas
son Joseph & his son Thomas
son Henry
son John & his son John
grandchildren Andrew, Henry, John, Richard & Mary Stephens, children of James Stephens (married Charity)
grandchildren Thomas, William, Mary & Rebecca Littleton children of his deceased daughter Rebecca, wife of William Littleton
daughter Catherine, married to William Bersy and their daughter Charity
daughter Mary wife of William Penrose
St Winnow hasn't as yet been transcribed in full but some of the family events are on the opc database and you can contact the opc to ask for records to be checked
http://www.opc-cornwall.org/Par_new/t_z/winnow_st.php
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Thanks for that information - that explains why I can't check my possible ancestors' details from St Winnow details on the OPC site.
I'm checking if the details you gave me are my direct ancestors' details - which is all part of my process of elimination. There seems to be a THOMAS ADAMS who married CATHERINE PEARCE, in 1741, and a THOMAS ADAMS (son of Thomas and Catherine, maybe?) who married MARY CHELEY at St Winnow in 1763.
THOMAS and MARY also had a daughter REBEKAH (although spelling is probably irrelevant) baptised 1 January, 1771, and I'm trying to establish if she is the REBECCA ADAMS mother of GRACE ADAMS, born Trewen, 1792 - there being no father mentioned at the baptism, although one identified through banns but no subsequent marriage for our REBECCA.
I'm also researching a REBECCA from an ADAMS family from St Mellion, but am particularly interested in the St Winnows connection as I am trying to find a connection to a DNA match who has a CATHERINE ADAMS born St Winnow in 1800 in their ancestry.
I have most of my St Winnow details from LDS Family Search.
From LDS, I found a family tree for REBECCA LITTLETON, born ADAMS. This indicates she was born at Luxulyan 5th April, 1779. There is also a burial of REBECCA ADAMS in the Luxulyan records for 17 October 1779, with no further identifying details. I had assumed the death was of the baby REBECCA born in April - until I found her marriage to LITTLETON.
I'm sure they must all be connected, one way or another. Thanks again.
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the Thomas whose will I linked was buried in St Winnow 9 March 1825 aged 82 abode Lanlivery. So definitely not the one who married in 1741. His wife was Catherine so possible marriage in Lanlivery
Thomas Adams, yeoman, of Lanlivery & Catherine Cundy of St Winnow 9 March 1795.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mcl/
From FreeReg, Rebecca Adams married William Littleton by licence 12 Dec 1800 in Lanlivery. She was baptised 1 Jan 1771 in St Winnow dau of Thomas, no mother mentioned not unusual at this time. I haven't spotted her burial as yet, daughter Rebecca Adams Littleton bp 12 Nov 1806 in Lanlivery.
Charity Adams married James Stephens 15 June 1785 in St Winnow, she was baptised in St Winnow 6 March 1764 dau of Thomas & Mary.
Thomas Adams married Mary Cheley 13 Nov 1763 in St Winnow and was baptised 31 May 1742 son of Thomas & Catherine.
I wouldn't worry about spelling of names at this time. The spelling is down to the cleric recording it and it can vary. There's no one site that has all the records, so try using OPC, FreeReg, Family Search and Findmypast has transcripts of some of the Cornwall Family History Society records.
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looking at your Rebecca, there are 2 baptisms in Trewen
Grace Petherick Adams bp 12 Aug 1792
Ann Adams bp 5 Oct 1800 and buried 7 Oct 1800
I think it's unlikely that the Rebecca with 2 illegitimate daughters in Trewen would be the one from the well-heeled family from some distance away in Lanlivery/St Winnow
https://cornish-forefathers.co.uk/images/parishes/parishes_map2.png
How have you identified her father from banns? All that is recorded in banns is their parish, marital status, and the dates of the 3 readings. Do you mean the parish record of the marriage?
The Prerogative court of Canterbury will from 1783 of Thomas Adams, father of Thomas, is on Ancestry. It mentions
son John
son Joseph deceased, his daughters Catherine & Elizabeth with wife Mary who had married Henry Cossentine of St Veep by the time of the will. ( Joseph Adams married Mary Stephens 18 Aug 1771 in St Winnow)
son Thomas & his son (unnamed)
sister Mary Manal
daughter Rebecca, wife of Phillip Thomas
daughter Grace, wife of John Thomas
There's a baptism in St Winnow 5 Nov 1801 for a Catherine Adams, daughter of John & Ann
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Oh Wow, Thank you so much for all your research and help. It's very much appreciated.
According to my amateur detective work, Rebecca Adams of Trewen was the mother of Grace Petherick - as per parish baptism register, 15 August,1892. Petherick may have been given as baby Grace's surname as a nod to impending legitimacy, or a middle name as an acknowledgement of the father. I believe this is most likely the Grace Adams who married James Harris at St Juliot, 15 July, 1818.
Interestingly, there is a record (photo image, Family Search) of the banns being called between Rebecca Adams of Trewen and William Petherick of Treneglos, in the month before Grace's birth . . . but there is no evidence of an eventual marriage.
Further, I have found a photo image record (Family Search) of the banns being called between (most likely our) Rebecca and Robert Hancock of Trewen in 1799/1800 (no date given) - but at least 9 months before the birth - and death - of baby Anne in October, 1800 - who was baptised as Ann Adams. No mention of the father again in the baptism records, and no evidence of a subsequent marriage between Rebecca and Robert. I found an image (Family Search) of a marriage licence between Peter Darton and a Rebecca Adams (1805) of the St Stephens by Saltash parish - and no evidence of the actual marriage again, so if that's our Rebecca, she does seem to be a recidivist fiancee . . . Interesting to speculate the story behind those details.
The family of Thomas Adams and Mary Cheley from St Winnows (Family Search) have a Rebecca who fits the necessary criteria - I'm just not able to find out what happened to her post-baptism.
I'm wondering if she's the sister of Charity Adams, and Joseph Adams (father of the Sophie Adams in the title of this post).
There's another Adams family from St Mellion - with a Rebecca and two other daughters who had illegitimate children - so there's another possibility.
It's very easy to mix up the members of the different families - with so many similar names, places and dates!
Many thanks again. You have been a great help. I shall continue to tease this out.
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I'd already mentioned that Rebecca, daughter of Thomas & Mary, married William Littleton 12 Dec 1800 in Lanlivery. Thomas makes bequests to her children, Thomas, William, Mary & Rebecca, referring to them as the children of his late daughter Rebecca deceased, so she died before he wrote his will, 22 Feb 1825.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01md5/
Parish marriage entry for your Grace, no mention of father's name as is the norm at that time. One of the witnesses, Joseph Heals, signs on a few marriages on the page so may have been the parish clerk.
The 1805 marriage appears to have taken place in St Stephens by Saltash. It was by Licence. Cornwall FHS show Peter's surname as Darton opc database has Dartin
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=marriages&id=1396587
The marriage did take place, otherwise the church would not have known about the licence.