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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: hongkongtiff on Sunday 02 August 15 18:42 BST (UK)
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Is anyone able to shed light on the birth and marriage records for a Bryan Boyle and Bridget Daly Boyle.Their connections appear to be with Abbeydorney, Kilflynn, Rattoo, Listowel, Garrybawn, Dromakee, Tralee, the north of Tralee. I have all the details of their known children Mary, John, Brian and Bernard from 1873 when Mary was baptised. There also appear to be problems with the Abberdorney records as the last two church marriage records for Boyles in the 19 Century at Abberdorney are 1999 John Boyle and Margaret Broder (Broderick), Bryans son and for some reason the previous marriage record in 1873 is of another John Boyle and Johanna Wall who's father is also Bryan Boyle. This would not be so bad but Johanna Walls mother is noted as Bridget Daly who in 1875 gives birth to the John Boyle who is getting married in 1899. Would a man have two sons called John and why is Bridget down as the mother of Johanna? As I said we have the records of their descendants but cannot move further back with the family. The fact he appears to be called Bernard on his daughter Marys baptism record also confuses. We know its common for nicknames to be used instead of given names in Ireland much to annoyance of researchers! Trips to Kilarney records have proved unhelpful. Any help would be appreciated.
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Have you seen the record of the 1873 marriage there were a number of changes to the entry - wonder if names were reversed? Link http://137.191.249.36/registers/vtls000634224#page/28/mode/1up
annclare
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Bernard and Bryan were interchangeable.
I've seen it numerous times.
Tara
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Where are my manners ?
I forgot to say Welcome ;D
Tara
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So is it Bryan and Bridget's marriage that you are looking for ?
Tara
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The marriage doesn't appear to have been civilly registered which makes things tricky.
I'd say the clerk / priest just made a mess of filling in the register.
It's possibly the marriage of John and Johanna and Bryan and Bridget were the witnesses OR visa versa.
I don't think parentage was part of what they wrote down, even though they should.
Tara
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HI Annclare and Tara
Thank you for your information. I had not seen this micro fiche of the actual record. Its pretty appalling. I don't think anybody could read or write so were depending on the priest etc to fill in the form. Yes it Bryan and Bridget's details I am after initially (Bryan with a Y or an I or an E or an A? does it matter! It definitely looks like Johnny and Johanna got married and Bryan and Bridget stood for both. I don't know where this takes me now as I said in 1875 a John Boyle is baptised and he gets married in 1899 in the same church! Did Johnny die? You would think that Bridget would have had a number of children leading up to the marriage of Johnny but there are no records of them. Did they all die? I couldn't find a record of the 1899 marriages on that site can you? When you say the marriage was not civilly registered did you mean Bryan and Bridget or Johnny and Johanna? It would be good if it Bryan and Bridget were the happy couple and everything is mixed up but how do we prove it? Looking at Johnny and Johanna those names are pretty close in characters as well...... Any ideas?
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I can't see ANY Bernard / Bryan (or variant) marriages to a Bridget Daly.
You have found an 1899 marriage connected to an earlier baptism.
Some clerks / priests did this but not all, it's purely random.
Tara
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Also, you said Bryan and Bridget's first child was born 1873 so I would be under the presumption that they got married prior to this.
IF they did marry prior to 1873 and the marriage that we are looking at is for John and Johannah the Bridget SHOULD be down as a witness under her married name ie Bridget Boyle.
Tara
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Hi Tara
All through this Bridget appears as Bridget Daly and only once as Bridget Daly Boyle. Bryan's daughter Mary is born in August 1873 after this marriage, perhaps a shotgun was involved for Bryan.... She has her next child John in 1875 a respectable time period unless of course there were tragedies in between?
Other possible earlier siting of Bryan are in the Army in the 1851 census in Everton Barracks in England. This Bryan was born around 1832 and hailed from Rattoo which is close enough to Tralee etc. Bridget's last child as far as we know was in 1880.
Hongkongtiff
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Hi As a point I am assuming that around this time which is quite close to the famine that the populations around Tralee and the west coast was decimated and chances of a coincidence of two Bryan Boyle's and Bridget Daly's marrying with the same named children is remote? I was in Tralee earlier in June but am back home in England now doing this family tree long distance with the help of the newly met relatives.
Hongkongtiff
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I take it that you have baptisms for her children.
On these a woman is only listed under her maiden name ie Bridget Daly.
It"s possible they married yet never registered it.
This was still common for back then even though required by law.
They also might never have married ~ it happens.
Tara
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There is an 1832 Bryan Boyle who dies in 1884 in Kerry.
Tara
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In the Beaufort and Killorglin Registers my GGreatgrandparents John Cronin and Joan Hayes were witnesses to several marriages and baptisms. Although they were already married, her maiden name, Joan Hayes, was entered as witness.
Hope this helps
Mogue
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Hi Tara
Yes I have this Bryan too who may have been the in the army in 1851. He was single than but could have married Bridget in England and took her to Ireland......We have a possible Bridget Daly born in Ireland 1828 but that would make her 52 when she had her last child (not impossible). I had thought before this Johnny arrived on the scene they both were born around 1855 now it looks like they could be older.
Hi Mogue thank you for that information.
Searching Abbeydorney we find Bridget Daly being a witness to of all people a marriage of another member of the Wall family in I think 1867 before this 1873 wedding. They all seemed to know each other in Kilflynn and surrounding .....
Hongkongtiff
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Hi Bridget and Bryan go to great lengths to get their children baptised and registered etc yet it seems they do not do the same for themselves and may not even have been married...
Hongkongtiff
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Hi General question regarding marriage certificates and church records in Ireland. When a father is named on a birth record or stated on a marriage certificate does this mean that the father was actually at the registering/baptism or at the wedding of his children? Would you normally expect to see the word deceased on the document or would it not matter as long as he was named? I am asking this because I believe I have two marriage certs were the father is named but I need him deceased.
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The only way to tell if a father was at the registration of a birth is if he was the informant.
Marriage certificates often list the father's name and occupation without mentioning that he was deceased. Sometimes deceased is included but not all the time. A better indication can be a wedding announcement which might says something like 'daughter of the late.'
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Hi thank you for your interest. This is what i thought. We do not have a death cert and not knowing when he dies is causing problems. We would not have the wedding announcement information if indeed it was announced in such a formal way. Using your information he may have been missing for 20 years but still appears on certificates. Thanks again
Hongkongtiff