RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Gilby on Saturday 29 August 15 10:26 BST (UK)

Title: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Saturday 29 August 15 10:26 BST (UK)
I am looking for Windy Hill, specifically Windy Hill Graveyard, which I believe to be somewhere near Mallusk.  Has anyone ever heard of it?

The reason I ask is I’m looking into the Thoburn family who lived around Craigarogan/Mallusk.  There is a book called “The Ancestry of the Irish-American Thoburns” which has genealogies mostly put together from two bibles and the Carnmoney church records.

This is the bit I’m interested in:

Joseph Thoburn, (26 Feb 1719 – 19 Nov 1792) m. Eleanor Barron (1735 – 13 Aug 1811):
- John [hypothetical apparently, so I’ll leave him out]
- Mary, b. 5 Feb 1751
- David, (10 Jul 1757 – 3 May 1802/3) m. Janet Barron in Aug 1783.
.                      1. Jane (1797 - 1872).  She erected a monument in Windy Hill cemetery.
                       2. John (1799? - 1845?)
                       3. David (1800 - Aug 1862).  (Windy Hill cemetery and Family Bible.)
- Joseph (24 Jan 1759 – ?) m. Janet Bigger.
- William (1765 – 27 Jan 1819) m. Agnes Russell on 11 May 1788.


I’m trying to get to the bottom of the Thoburn-Barron connections.

The will calendar has a David Thoburn of Craigarogan who died on the 23rd October 1862.  He leaves everything to his sister Jane, and after she dies to their nephews and nieces.  The will calendar also records that Jane died in 1872, and according to GRONI she was 75, so born about 1797.

This all fits with the above, apart from the fact the Thoburn book has David’s death as August 1862, not October.  I'd like to be able to assume they just got the date a bit wrong, but there was in fact a David Thoburn who did die in August 1862:

Belfast Newsletter, 16th August 1862
Thoburn - August 15, at 23, High Street, Holywood, Mr. David Thoburn, formerly of Belfast, aged 59 years.  His remains will be removed from his late residence, for interment in Mallusk Burying-ground, on to-morrow (Sunday), at one o'clock, passing over the Queen's Bridge about half-past two.  Friends will please accept this intimation.

I’m wondering if the Thoburn book has got the two David Thoburns mixed up.  Judging by the comments in the genealogy above I ought to try and find the monument erected by Jane Thoburn in “Windy Hill cemetery” hence this post.

~ MFG
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: gaffy on Saturday 29 August 15 11:48 BST (UK)
The Placenamesni.org website identifies a Windy Hill in the townland of Craigarogan in the civil parish of Templepatrick, which is right on the money for a "Mallusk" reference.
 
Griffith's Valuation shows an "Old Grave Yard" in Craigarogan, here is an OSI map of the location:

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,726800,884053,9,7

- if this link doesn't work, search for Craigarogan here: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

On a modern map and on google streetview / satellite, I can see nothing, just a few houses. By my reckoning, the "Old Grave Yard" should lie just north of the Roughfort Road at its junction with the Millbank Road travelling NNW.
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Saturday 29 August 15 14:34 BST (UK)
Ooh, interesting.  I’d seen that old graveyard marked on maps, but thought it had probably ceased to exist.

Joe Graham mentions it in his (slightly partisan?) blog:

http://outandabout.rushlightmagazine.com/roughtfort.html

Apparently all destroyed?

If Jane Thoburn erected a monument there in the c1860s, and it was still there in the early-mid 1900s when the Thoburn book was put together, you’d think there was a chance it might still be there?  As you say though, if anything survives it looks like it’s probably in someone’s garden now.

I wonder why it wasn’t called the Roughfort graveyard though.  And where is Windy Hill itself?  I suppose it could be the hill which peaks close to the cross roads between the Lylehill Road and the Old Coach Road?
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Saturday 29 August 15 20:46 BST (UK)
Thought I’d check the graveyard inscriptions for other Windy Hill references...

From Ballynure Old Graveyard:
Fulton Erected by John & James Fulton to the memory of their beloved father John Fulton of Windyhill who died 24 Mar 1849 aged 79 years. Also their mother Rebecca Fulton who departed this life 21 Nov 1868 aged 89 years. Also the above-named James Fulton who died 20 Oct 1890 aged 78 years. In loving memory of my dear wife Mary A. Fulton who died 26 Jan 1955. Also her dear husband John Fulton who died 21 Sep 1957.

I have a couple of BMD notices which indicate there were Fultons living in Kilgreel and Roughfort.

And I know for sure there was Kelso’s living in Roughfort.  Just went through my photos of graves in Mallusk and found this one:

Here lieth the body of Andrew Kelso of Windyhill who departed thislife the 1 january 179(8?) age (8?)4 years.  Also Arabella Kelso his wife who departed this life January 20th 1800 aged 7(5?) years.  Here lieth the body of their son Joseph Kelso of Cow len-y (?) ... who departed this life the 1(?th) of Dec 1799 aged (33?) years.  Also here lieth the body of ??s??n? Kelso wife of Joseph Kelso of C/Gow?on-ward who died ... (buried) 27 years.

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 30 August 15 04:18 BST (UK)
From the Belfast Newsletter of 1861:

Land For Sale...

A farm of land, situate in the townland of Craigarogan, parish of Templepatrick, adjoining the village of Roughfort, six and a-half miles from Belfast, known by the name of Windy Hill, containing 54 acres...   

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 30 August 15 09:42 BST (UK)
Ah, thanks.  I looked that up on the valuation books - that corresponds to #41.  Shown as William Fulton's, then William Tate's, then in 1865 Robert Q/Dueery(?).

Looking at the map I'm not sure I'd say it strictly speaking adjoined Roughfort, although it does now with the relatively recent developments at the crossroads.  On streetview you can see that the farm does sit on a hill - so that answers that question (where is Windy Hill).

I was just doing some more searching and came across the planning website with information on a Local Landscape Policy Area in Roughfort:

Locally significant building and its surroundings – New house on Millbank Road East, with the site of an old church in the side garden, and significant trees along the boundary.

It doesn't sound like there's much of it left, and there's no mention of any headstones.  You can see the spot they're referring to on streetview - too shady to make much out.  Hmm.
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: gaffy on Sunday 30 August 15 10:38 BST (UK)
If I'm interpreting things correctly, if you approach the Roughfort Road/Millbank Road junction from the Millbank Road (ie. travelling south-ish), the first house you encounter after farmland, on the left/west side of the road is a relatively new bungalow, which can be ignored. 

Then two even newer houses, each with something of a side garden and "significant" trees between them, the first an unusual design (only three windows at front, two ground floor windows and one first floor bulls-eye/oculus), then the next house is a fairly standard modern house with 9 windows to front.

I'm assuming the graves must have been in the vicinity of the "significant" trees between these two houses, I can see a separate gate into the garden of the house with 9 windows to front which is odd, that may be an old lane / right of way.     

Either way, these houses are relatively recent and I can't see any headstones from the google streetview perspective.

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 30 August 15 16:39 BST (UK)
Agreed.  The significant trees with the gate is the shaded area I was referring to.  My hope (and I accept I'm likely to be disappointed) is that if any headstones survive they are somewhere near the corner of the garden under the trees.

Maybe someone who knows will post.  If not I'll have to go for a nosy some day.    :-\
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: allister1964 on Thursday 14 September 17 22:05 BST (UK)
I  have  an  interest  in  the  Thoburn  family  of  Carnmoney/Mallusk,  as  Janet  Girvan  (born abt 1665, who was likely  to  be  a sister  or  cousin  of  my  direct  ancestor),  was  married  to  a  Samuel  Thoburn. Janet  and  Samuel  were  recorded  in  the  Carnmoney  Presbyterian  Session  Book  in  either  December  1702  or  1703,  as  'living  apart',  though  after  some  persuasion  by  the  Elders,  they  agreed  to  live  together.   I  have  photocopies  of  the  original  document  regarding  some  members  of  the  Thoburn  family, which  was  compiled  by  William  Fee  McKinney (held  by  the  Public  Records  Office  in  Belfast).  The  earliest record  relates  to  a  Joseph  Thoburn  (1690-1758)  who  was  married  to  Agnes  Russell  (1688-1766). Joseph  and  Agnes  had  a son,  John  (1724-1806)  who  married  Margaret  Robinson  (born 1719) in 1746.

I  was  hoping  to  make  a  link  between  Samuel  Thoburn  and  his  wife  Janet  Girvan,  with,  Joseph  Thoburn  (1690-1758).  Maybe  you  can  shed  some  light  on  this  for  me? 

Just  one  interesting  point  -  I  had  a  Y-Chromosome  37  Marker  DNA  test  in  early  2014, and
found  one  of  my  closest  matches  in  the  'FamilytreeDNA'  website  was  a  gentleman  named,  Hugh  Hilliar  Eaglesham.  As  my  test  was  concerned  with  the  direct  male  line  of  descent  (ie:  passed  from  father  to  son  over  many  generations),  this  meant  that  when  my  ancestor   adopted  the  surname  Girvan,  his  brother  adopted  the  surname  Eaglesham.  Anyway,  I searched online, and found  Hugh  H  Eaglesham's genealogical  background,  and  his  family  originate  from  about  5  miles  north  of  the  town  of  Girvan  in  Ayrshire,  Scotland.

Finally,  I  can  recall  the  Canadian  snooker  player,  Cliff  Thorburn  being  interviewed  by  the  BBC  around  1984,  and  he  mentioned  that  he  had  visited  Girvan  in  Ayrshire,  as  his  ancestors  had  lived  there.  I  hope  this  is  of  some  interest  to  you.

Best  Wishes,  Allister  Girvin.               
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: lmgnz on Saturday 16 September 17 04:26 BST (UK)
One thing that Gilby did not mention is the family of Joseph Barron (1773-1825)  of Craigarogan/ Roughfort.

Eleanor Barron c1735 is obviously an earlier generation but could be the same family. Gilby does have snippets of information on earlier Barrons in the area.  Again DNA might help with that as there is a Barron DNA project. From the lines that have been tested, it appears that Joseph Barron of Roughfort is closely connected to another Joseph Barron b c1758 who emigrated to Virginia/Tennessee.

The other Barron family of Templepatrick (Ballynalough) is less closely related to Joseph but has also been tested and they appear to have a common ancestor in around the early 1600s.

Cheers

Linda (NZ).

P.S. I haven't worked out how to get an automatic signature with my family names so have had a go writing one. These are my Antrim families: The Wileys married into both Barron branches
   Templepatrick: Graham, Wiley, Lynn, Courtney.
Dunsilly: Gawn, Maxwell, Price, Henry
   Coolsythe: Ewing, McKelvie
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Friday 29 September 17 17:28 BST (UK)
Hi Allister,

I’m only distantly connected to the Thoburns, so I’m not sure how much I’ll be able to help you.  However, if you have not already read the manuscript/book called “The Ancestry of the Irish-American Thoburns” by C. Stanley Thoburn then I highly recommend it to you.

I think the book is based largely on two early Thoburn family bibles.  Unfortunately, it does not include your Samuel Thoburn and Janet Girvan, but it does have Joseph Thoburn (1690-1758) and suggests he had a brother Samuel, so perhaps their father was also Samuel?

It was in the above book where I found the reference to Windy Hill Cemetery.  I was recently reading the OS Memoirs for the area and found a passage which refers to the small graveyard in Roughfort which was already barely being user in the 1830s.  I’m sitting in the airport at the moment, so don’t have access to the passage in question.

Gilby
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: allister1964 on Saturday 07 October 17 14:11 BST (UK)
Thanks for the information regarding the Thoburn family. It seems unfortunately that the Thoburn's have became extinct in the Mallusk/Carnmoney area, with the last member of the family,  ie: Catherine Thoburn (b: 1843), who died about 1926. She was the daughter of David Thoburn (1791-1847) and Rebecca Boyd (1808-74).

I have visited the graveyards at both Carnmoney and Mallusk on several occasions, though haven't found any headstones for Thoburn, though several individuals are buried there, who had Thoburn as their middle name.

Would you mind informing me of where I could purchase a copy of the book that you mentioned?

Regards, Allister.

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Saturday 07 October 17 14:53 BST (UK)
Allister,

I’ve not been able to get my hands on a physical copy of the Thoburn book, but it can be viewed online here:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89062526041;view=1up;seq=1

That’s a good point about there being no Thoburn headstones in Mallusk (old part, anyway).  If I knew, I’d forgotten.  The above book refers to Thoburn headstones erected in “Windy Hill Cemetery” (the subject of this thread) which I think is the old graveyard in Roughfort.  What remains of the graveyard site is behind houses and when I visited I couldn’t see any signs of a graveyard.

Gilby
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: lmgnz on Saturday 04 November 17 03:55 GMT (UK)
 In regards to this family copied below I believe there is now another sibling.

David Thoburn, (10 Jul 1757 – 3 May 1802/3) m. Janet Barron in Aug 1783.
.                      1. Jane (1797 - 1872).  She erected a monument in Windy Hill cemetery.
                       2. John (1799? - 1845?)
                       3. David (1800 - Aug 1862).  (Windy Hill cemetery and Family Bible.)

Jane who died 1872 named a nephew David Kelso as a nephew and David Thoburn who died OCT 1862 named David Kelso as a nephew, as well as a string of Kelso nieces.

The McKinney notebook records William Kelso marrying Margaret Thoburn on 12 Jan 1819. And lists children, David, Susan, Jane and Margaret.

Probate of the Will of David Kelso late of Windyhill Craigarogan County Antrim Farmer who died 4 November 1897 granted at Belfast to William Kell of Ulida Skegoniel-avenue Belfast Spirit Merchant James Parker of Eastfield Templepatrick Farmer and Thomas Barnett of Roughfort Mallusk Road Contractor all County Antrim

David Kelso was 78 when he died so born c 1819. William Kell was his nephew.
Jane Kelso b 1824 is shown in the McKinney notebooks to have married a Joseph Kell.

Jane's other sisters as listed in the will of James Thoburn were:
Susan Kelso [b c1822 who married 1848 to Joseph Gourley of Kilgreel]
Elizabeth[b c1824 who married another David Kelso]
Margaret Kelso [ b c1826 who married James Alexander of Ballyrobert]
Ellen Kelso


Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: lmgnz on Saturday 04 November 17 04:13 GMT (UK)
Also

The Will of Elizabeth Kelso late of Craigarogan County Antrim Widow who died 6 April 1894 at same place was proved at Belfast by William Kell of Wine Cellar Entry Belfast Spirit Merchant and Robert Thompson of Craigarogan Farmer the Executors.

Elizabeth also named William Kell as her nephew, and David Kelso as her brother and the daughters of David Kelso and Jane Kell were listed as nieces, along with Elizabeth Gourley. Susan Gourley was a witness to the will.

Elizabeth's age at death (72) puts her birth at c 1822. It is possible Elizabeth was born between Susan Kelso bapt 13 Jul 1822 and Jane Kelso bapt 9 Dec 1824. Or between David Kelso bapt 31 Dec 1819 and Susan Kelso.

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: allister1964 on Saturday 04 November 17 13:58 GMT (UK)
Linda,

Many  thanks for the info regarding the Thoburns and Kelso's. I've been collecting all the details I can on the Thoburn family for almost 30 years, and although I can't prove it, am fairly sure that these people are descended from the marriage of Samuel Thoburn and Janet Girvan, who are recorded within the Session Minutes  of  Carnmoney Presbyterian Meeting House in either 1702 or 1703 as 'living part'. It is interesting that Margaret Kelso married a James Alexander, as Jane Jamison (born:1743) (daughter of John Jamison and Agnes Girvan) married a William Alexander.
 
It is really fascinating, the way in which all these families are connected through the generations.
I checked out the book regarding the history of the Thoburn's, though I found several discrepancies,
compared to those of Wm Fee McKinney. I haven't finished reading the book, though intend to, within the next week or so.

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 05 November 17 19:15 GMT (UK)
Belfast Newsletter, 7 Apr 1894   
KELSO - April 6, at her residence, Windyhill, Roughfort, Elizabeth, widow of the late David Kelso, Kilgreel, aged 72 years.  Interment in Mallusk Burying-ground, to-morrow (Sunday) afternoon, at three o'clock.

I was a bit confused at first by Elizabeth, widow of David Kelso, mentioning her brother David Kelso .. but yes, sure enough - David Kelso (son of George) married Elizabeth Kelso (daughter of William) at Templepatrick NS Presbyterian in 1857.

Here is the inscription from David and Elizabeth's headstone in Mallusk:
Erected by Elizabeth Kelso in memory of her beloved husband David Kelso, late of Kilgreel, who died 7th Novr 1888 aged 81 years.  Also the above named Elizabeth Kelso who died 6th April 1894 aged 72 years.  Agnes Webb who died 9th Feby 1903 aged 7 1/2.  James Kane Webb who died 17th April 1903 aged 4 months.  Also Meta the darling daughter of George and Meta Webb, Ballyhenry, who died 20th January 1934 aged 5 months.  Mary Webb who died 2nd January 1937.  Also her husband Charles Webb who died 24th March 1950.
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: callibaba on Saturday 06 June 20 21:42 BST (UK)
Not sure if this is the correct forum but having read the chat thought someone here might be able to help.

I have in my tree an Agnes Thoburn born in about 1815 according to the 1901 Census.

Why I think relevant to this discussion is that I found the announcement of her marriage in the Belfast Commercial Chronicle in 1835 where she is referred to as " the only surviving child of the late Joseph Thorburn of Roughfort" She was married by Rev. John Carson, Presbyterian Minister, Templepatrick.

I have read bits of the above link to the " History of Irish Thorburn" and thought at first she might be an offspring of Joseph Thorburn born 1788 but I believe I have traced him back to Scotland where he married twice) and died in 1868 (all census indicate he was born in Ireland and death certificate shows mothers maiden name as Bigger)

So I am therefore still trying to identify her father.

Also supporting her relationship to this family is the relationship with the Gourley/Kelso family. Despite Agnes spending her married life in Broughshane, Ballymena her daughter Isabella married William Gourley whom I believe was the son of Joseph Gourley and Susan Kelso and therefore the grandson of Margaret Thoburn b 1812 as noted in Imgnz post 4 Nov 2107.

Anyone with anything that might help me would be grateful.

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: lmgnz on Sunday 07 June 20 00:27 BST (UK)
Hi Callibaba

I distinctly remember seeing your Agnes only daughter of Joseph when Gilby and I were chasing up the family of Eleanor Barron. I had to go looking for her in my Ancestry tree and have found her and her husband John Adams who died 12 Jan 1879 at Ballinacard, Broughshane. I also have the daughter Isabella married to William Gourley.

I have added Agnes' father Joseph (b 1785 died 1835, wife's name unknown) to my tree as a sibling of Margaret Thoburn who married William Kelso. I don't remember if I have any evidence for that other than location and the Gourley marriage of Isabella. Gilby will be able to give more information.

That would make Joseph the son of David Thorburn( 1759-1802) and Janet Barron, and grandson of Eleanor Barron and Joseph Barron (1719-1792). It definitely makes sense for David to have had a son named Joseph after his own father so that is probably another reason I placed your Joseph in this family.

You are correct in that your Joseph is not the Joseph Thoburn of Mallusk who was also born 1759, and married Janet Bigger.

Again I may have linked these families together (I put Joseph b1759 as a brother of David also born abt 1759) incorrectly and would have to defer to Gilby on the proven relationships. Gilby's Barron family roots are in Roughfort so has a more detailed knowledge than I do. Our shared family is Wiley of Templepatrick, and Gilby's Wiley ancestor married Jane Barron of Roughfort, daughter of Joseph.

Gilby is currently working on a chart of how the Templepatrick Barron families link to those in Loughmourne in Larne, but this is based on recent yDNA tests and females such as Eleanor do not get a look in. I will ask Gilby where Eleanor links into the chart.

Cheers

Linda

Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: lmgnz on Sunday 07 June 20 01:26 BST (UK)
Hi Callibaba

As far as I know I should not have any DNA link to the Thoburn family but I did look in my DNA matches last year and found a few with Thoburns, including one in the Adams family, in the William Maybin Adams line. Of course that may not be where the shared genes come from.  I am not sure but Gilby may also have had a Maybin family connection.

Cheers

Linda
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: Gilby on Sunday 07 June 20 18:05 BST (UK)
Hi Callibaba,

I don’t have Agnes Thoburn’s father Joseph attached anywhere to the wider Thoburn tree.  There are several Joseph Thoburns listed by William Fee McKinney [WFM] and in the Irish American Thoburn [IAT] book:

1.   Joseph Thoburn (c1690-1758) m. Agnes Russell.  [WFM/IAT]
2.   Joseph Thoburn (b. 1719) m. Eleanor Barron.  [IAT]  Nephew of #1? 
3.   Joseph Thoburn (b. 1750) m. _____ _____ [IAT/WFM]  GS of #1.
4.   Joseph Thoburn (b. 1759) m. Janet Bigger.  [IAT]  Son of #2. 
5.   Joseph Thoburn (b. 1771) m. Nancy Coey/Coley [IAT/WFM]  Son of #3
6.   Joseph Thoburn (b. 1788) [IAT]  Son of #4

Josephs #1-4 are probably too early.  Joseph #5 died in 1853 according to IAT, but I’ve not found any record of that.  Joseph #6 is a possibility – I have no record of whether he married or when he died.  Ah, you’ve got him in Scotland so that rules him out too.

He could be a Joseph Thoburn not listed by either WFM or IAT, in which case the most likely place to put him would be a son of David Thoburn (c1757-1802) as suggested by Linda.  This David was son of #2 and brother of #4.  He lived at Roughfort which fits.

David Thoburn married Janet Barron in August 1783 according to IAT, so there is plenty of room for him to have a son Joseph born c1790 who could have been father of Agnes Thoburn who married John Adams.

With David’s wife and mother both being Barrons, it is quite likely he inherited land from that family in Roughfort.

Gilby

p.s. I’m also a match to the same Maybin/Adams/Thoburn person on FTDNA.  I emailed them in 2017 and 2019.  No response :(
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: callibaba on Friday 12 June 20 21:06 BST (UK)
Thank you Gilby and Linda for your very quick replies - I have spent the week still searching.

I did take a look at the naming of John Adams and Agnes Thoburn's children to see if any clues.
First son Thomas - after John's father
Second son John Joseph - Why not Joseph and third son John unless Joseph Thoburn was actually a 'John Joseph"- the John Joseph name has continued in the family.
First Daughter Margaret Anne - Johns mother I think was possibly Margaret but perhaps Agnes's mother was also Margaret also.
Second daughter was Agnes - presumably after her mother.
Third son was David- But not a usual name in John's family- perhaps a brother in Agnes' family?

Just some thoughts.

Also the newspaper announcement refers to Agnes Thoburn as 'the last surviving child' - and she was only about 20 - not "the only child' so to me that implies there were siblings deceased by 1835.

I shall keep searching.

My interest is that Agnes Thoburn would be a gggrandmother of my husband through her son David Adams and down through the maternal line- no DNA tests needed.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Windy Hill Cemetery - Thoburns of Mallusk
Post by: lmgnz on Monday 15 June 20 13:07 BST (UK)
Hi

As Gilby has said there are a couple of possibilities for the parents of Joseph Thoburn. This is where it is possible DNA would help out. It is not so much to confirm what you already know, though that is always a bonus, but to see if it helps with the unknown.

Anyone of the same generation who shared Agnes as an ancestor on another line to your husband would be his 3rd  cousin. If Agnes had siblings who had family then their descendants would be 4th cousins (i.e share  3x gt grandparents). 3rd and 4th cousins are well within the reach of an autosomal DNA test.  Anyone who shared Joseph's parents with your husband (his 4x gt grandparents)  would be 5th cousins.

You only have about  3% of your DNA from each of your 3x gt grandparents (32 of them) so to get a DNA match you have to find someone with some of the exact same DNA. But it happens. Ancestry tell you how many DNA matches are 4th cousin or closer and in my case that is 503.

In fact you can get DNA matches from 5th to 8th cousins though the chances of a match do get a lot less. My two DNA matches in the Thoburn family of Craigarogan are in the 5th to 8th cousin range. At that point my shared ancestor would be at least a 4th gt grandparent. My DNA match in the McCord family (descended from Agnes) is slightly greater than my other match (Wesley family) who is to a descendant of Joseph Thoburn and Janet Bigger but at that low level of shared DNA the amount of DNA shared can be very variable. My Graham family is from Templepatrick but I do not know my ancestors beyond my 4th gt grandparents (none = Thoburns) so the source of my DNA matches could be anywhere and may not be a Thoburn.

Cheers

Linda