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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: tempogold on Friday 02 October 15 12:28 BST (UK)
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Hello
i am wondering if any one can help me trace this family . Sorry very limited information .
Christopher Cochran was born perhaps around 1807 . On the marriage Cert for his daughter Margaret Cochran to James Locket( should be spelt Lockhart) on 14 Nov 1853 he is listed as a groom. location is Craigarrow ?parish in Templepatrick .sorry writing very poor on cert . Margaret wsa 22. Another daughter ELIZA married ON 16/10/1852 to James Hagen address BallYashan ,Templepatrick. Christopher had been listed at this time as a labourer . I know he also had a son called Charles and he is a witness to his sister margarets Marriage .
Grateful for any information about the Cochran family from Templepatrick.
Thank you .
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Hello Tempogold,
Time we put some wind in your sails!
The basic unit of geography in Ireland is the Townland.
Each Civil Parish is is composed of a collection of Townlands.
You will find Templepatrick parish's quota of constituents listed here:
http://apps.proni.gov.uk/geogindx/parishes/par254.htm
The closest matches to your attempted transcriptions from the marriage certificates are Ballycushan and Craigarogan.
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Ballycushan lies roughly due East of Templepatrick village, with the Six Mile Water as its Northern boundary. It lies to the North of the townlands of Cloughanduff and Ballymartin.
It hosts a collection of cotters houses (b,c,d,e,f,g,h) in tenement 5B.
These lie in the SW corner of the townland, just North of the Ballymartin Water, at Bridge End.
Two farmers dominated the townland - REID at The Croft (1) and John B. WILEY (4).
The latter was particularly prominent in the Castle Upton Farming Society.
[The UPTON family returned to their seat in the 1840s, rejuvenating the farming practices.]
Your Christopher COCHRAN was likely an itinerant labourer, "working to" such big wigs.
He would have had to attend the local 6 monthly hiring fairs, even if being re-engaged.
Strong confirmation that this is the "correct" location comes from the fact that a James LOCKHART was resident in house 1Ac in Ballymartin in 1864. This was just down the road from Bridge End.
He may have worked at the Thrashing Mill in Ballymartin, just South of Bridge End.
This information comes from the Griffiths Valuation of Ireland published in 1864.
You can explore the lists of inhabitants, and explore the locations on old maps, using
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch or
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
A James LOCKHART was sworn on to the Inquest Jury investigating the murder of Mary LANGTRY at her uncle's residence in "Ballycushion" (sic).
Ref: THE TEMPLEPATRICK MURDER .
The Belfast News-Letter, Tuesday, November 3, 1874; Issue 56097.
I did find another James LOCKHART, a major farmer in Kilroot.
His wife, Margaret, died in 06-FEB-1895 - buried St. Nicholas, Carrickfergus.
However, she was aged 76, so born ~1819.
Ref: Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
The Belfast News-Letter, Thursday, February 7, 1895; Issue 24827.
Sadly, your Christopher COCHRAN proved elusive.
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I did find an Emilia COCHRAN marrying a Mathew O'HARA, in December 1830.
Both hailed from "Ballyutogue" (sic)
[aka, Ballyutoag - another Templepatrick townland - large, lying to the South.]
The ceremony was performed by the Rev. John M'MILLAN.
[As far as I could determine he was the long-term incumbent of the Presbyterian Church at Lylehill.]
Ref: Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
The Belfast News-Letter, Tuesday, December 28, 1830; Issue 9760.
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Unfortunately, Craigarogan is also a very large townland containing many large farms and manufactories, so it will be difficult to get any useful diagnostic information.
At least you are afloat at last!
Capt. Jock
[A great admirer of Admiral Thomas COCHRANE from Culross, "The Wolf of the Seas".
Whose character was used for Horatio Hornblower, and John Aubrey "Master & Commander".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cochrane,_10th_Earl_of_Dundonald ]
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Thank you so much for this . Do you know the area? I had not realized that the Hiring fairs also took place in Ireland --I had always thought of them as something that happened in England. I can see i will need to read up about the local area. Really interested in the Templepatrick murder. What a shame Christopher Cochran is a mystery man. I thought the name Christopher slightly unusual for the time . Perhaps someone will recognize it some time. There are no family trees on line that I can find .. You have rekindled my interest in this search --thank You .
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Re Ballycushan
The Wiley in Ballycushan in 1800 would have been my 4 x gt grandfather Hugh Wiley father of Ezekiel Wiley born 1805. Ezekiel's son Joseph Barron Wiley is the J B Wiley mentioned. Ezekiel died pre 1862 so you will find his wife Jane Wiley (nee Barron) in Griffiths valuations.
My 3x gt grandfather James Graham (who married Mary Wiley) was one of the residents in the 5B group. The list at the time of Griffiths Valuations was:
#5 B a James Graham 2 roods (house office Garden)
b Ellen Douglas house & garden
c William Price
d Richard Shannon
d Hugh Neill
e William Boyd
f Margaret Neill 30 perches
I was fascinated to see there was a murder. Thank you Capt Jock.
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Hello
I take it you have a copy of the article about the murder. If not if you send me a pm with your e mail I will sent it on. makes interesting reading.
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Thank you Tempogold.
I had heard about the murder but hadn't read the article until last night. It was fascinating to read. A real modern day forensic mystery. I did download a copy.
James & Mary Graham's son Ezekiel D Wiley Graham married Sarah Bill who no doubt belonged to one of several Bill families mentioned. James & Mary's oldest son Henry married a Reid so that connects my Graham family to all the Ballycushan farmers.
Cheers
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Hello,
this is also my family that i am researching but i done have anymore than you.
If you would like descendants I am happy to provide them to you.
I would like to know more but who knows its like the wind on the ocean, invisible but its there somewhere
Cheers
Margaret
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hi Margaret
we have been in touch before on another site about the Lockharts. Hope your research is going well. Had hoped to try and see what could be discovered about the Cochran line.
Happy Hunting.
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The murder in question mentioned above involved my family - the accused was William Bill, brother of David Bill, my great great grandfather, whilst Margaret Langtry was their first cousin. William was found not guilty at a trial in 1875 - the second time he had been found not guilty of a murder in Templepatrick in 5 years, so I can't imagine too many people got close to him after that!
For more on the Bill family and the murder, visit http://chrispatonscotland.tripod.com/id6.html. Tragic as the incident was, it involved a family feud, meaning that everyone was interviewed, with the coverage so detailed that I was able to piece together an incredible amount of detail for the family back to the late 1700s/early 1800s.
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Hi Christopan,
Thank you for the link to Bill family information. I am interested in the Sally Bills you have listed as daughters of Daniel and of James.
Ezekiel D (Davis/David) Graham baptised Jan 1819 son of James Graham of Ballycushan,married Sarah BILL on 29 JUL 1841.
I do not know who Sarah's father was, but I expect she was one of the Sally's in your Bill family history.
I have not found any trace of Ezekiel and Sarah in Ireland so think they may have emigrated. I also have no further trace of Ezekiel's brother James Graham born c1827 judging by his position in the list of James Graham's family in 1831. James junior may not have survived childhood or may also have emigrated. (I saw a James Graham was a witness at a Bill marriage but I need to read through the Bill history again and take notes to see which marriage that was)
The reason I mention James as well as Ezekiel is the closest I have come to possibly locating Ezekiel is the following:
An Ezekiel D Graham and a James Graham are on an 1871 and 1874-1877 property tax list for Dade, Georgia. Ezekiel D Graham of Georgia served as a sergeant in the Confederate army in the civil war, 1861-65
Cheers
Linda
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Hi Christopan,
I have taken another look at the Bill family on the site you posted and the marriage where James Graham was witness was the 1842 marriage of Alexander Bill, b c1814.
Alexanders's parent's Daniel Bill and Susannah Rea were probably married within a few years of my 3x gt grandparents marriage, James Graham and Mary Wiley. Their oldest son was Henry Graham born c1816. Ezekiel D Graham born c1819 was their second son baptised at Templepatrick Presbyterian Church.
My 2x gt grandfather John Graham bapt either 31 Jul 1831 or 1833 (I have a certificate with the 1831 date which matches the 1831 census) was a blacksmith as were his 6 sons. Including his youngest son Ezekiel D Wiley Graham whose smithy was the Massereene "Good Luck" Smithy in Antrim.
I like the fact that Alexander Bill's family were also blacksmiths and I think the "Sally" in the 1831 list of Daniel's family could very well be the Sarah Bill who married Ezekiel Graham in 1841. If you take a very very rough stab at her date of birth by adding 2 years per child from Alexander 1814, then I get a birth at about 1824.
The other Sally Bill, who was baptised 1805, daughter of James Bill is a less likely option, though not impossible.
Cheers
Linda
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Hi Chrispaton
Thank you for posting your information. I love how over time pieces of a jig saw ft together. The James Lockhart who was on of the Jury was my relation. From a small town-land all their lives must have been in twinged . Enjoyed reading your research into the Bell Family .
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Hello,
I believe Christopher Cochrane and indeed James Locket are one of my direct descendants. The search for Christopher has been just as elusive for myself.From my own research most of the Lockharts are tied to the townland of Craigarogan. There was a number of different Lockharts who moved to Belfast and there are Lockharts buried in Mallusk Graveyard. Isabella and James I believe - I have a photo if anyone would wish to have it.
I have James Lockhart and Margaret Cochrane marrying in 1853 at the Antrim Registrar Office. They then had a son James who I descend from. James married a Rebecca McKinley at the Templepatrick Parish Church. The residence at their marriage shows them staying the in the Vicarage. I get the impression that some of the Lockharts were Presbyterians though which makes me kinda get the impression that the Cochranes may also have been attendees at Templepatrick Presbyterian or maybe Antrim 1st.
I hope this is helpful. I am intending to go to PRONI to check up on all this within the not too distant future so if any Cochranes come up I will gladly post - I haven't found any on my travels. Have been to Templepatrick Parish and there is one Lockhart grave there (no names) and no Cochranes that I could see.
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This is really interesting as we do indeed have some common ancestors. Have you seen the trees on Ancestry for Lockhart. ?
Its a case of Brother and Sister marrying Brother and Sister.
James Lockhart 1865-1917 married as you say Rebecca McKinley and had 12 children.
Sister to James is Christina Lockhart 1868-1946
She marries William Mckinley 1856-1944 who is the brother of Rebecca.
My line is from William and Christina.
Happy to share information. You may prefer to send a message using the Person message system.
All the best.
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I have James Lockhart and Margaret Cochrane marrying in 1853 at the Antrim Registrar Office. They then had a son James who I descend from. James married a Rebecca McKinley at the Templepatrick Parish Church. The residence at their marriage shows them staying the in the Vicarage. I get the impression that some of the Lockharts were Presbyterians though which makes me kinda get the impression that the Cochranes may also have been attendees at Templepatrick Presbyterian or maybe Antrim 1st.
The marriage registration merely says her residence was Templepatrick Vicarage with no indication of the exact location in Templepatrick where he was living :-\
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10799/5938133.pdf
Added- since Rebecca was a servant perhaps the Vicarage is where she worked and lived.
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James Lockharts death is noted in the PRONI will calendars:
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx
I don't know if that link will copy but the written copy states that he wishes for his property to be auctioned and sold.
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Apologies for the double post but (potentially) good news.
I have maybe found Christopher within the Templepatrick Presbyterian church records.
I found a family consisting of:
Christopher Cochrine/Cochine/Cochrane (it's hard to read)
Agnes Bartly (is the maiden name)
Mary Cochrane
Eliza Cochrane
Charles Cochrane
Margaret Cochrane.
Elsewhere within the records I also saw a Charles, Christian and what looked like a May and a Agnes.
The records were a family record dated 1831. I probably won't be back in PRONI and was in a bit of a rush so wasn't able to check the full records, nor can I verify if it is them but some time next year I will go through them
EDIT: And as a bonus. I noticed a lot of Bills named within the Presbyterian church as well.
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Oh this is fantastic news.Thank you so much for sharing the information.
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No problem.
I have done a bit of searching and I can confirm that this is likely the correct family. The following records are available on GRONI but:
Agnes Cochran, widower of a labourer dies 12th January 1871 aged 75 (birth at circa 1796) - Jane Connelly present at death, in Templepatrick.
Also marriage of Eliza Cochran to James Hagen on 16th October 1852 at the Antrim Registrars Office. James Hagen is shown as age 30 and a laborer. James' father was Patrick Hagen, profession listed as pensioner. Residence at marriage is Toberagnee, Parish of Ballymartin (https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/ballymartin/toberagnee/).
Eliza Cochran's age is listed as full age, no profession. Residence at Ballycushan, Parish of Templepatrick (https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-upper/templepatrick/ballycushan/). Her father is listed as Christopher Cochran, laborer.
Witnesses are William Smyth and Bernard ? - can't read it all.
This should give a bit more of a confirmation as to the information being correct.
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Really useful to have this . Thank You . Shame there dont appear to be any trees for them on line. Good to be able to add them to mine.
Have looked for awhile for other records foe Eliza and her husband James Hagen without success in the area and wonder if they could have gone abroad .
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No problem.
The church records have a family directory as well for some time in the mid 1850s so I will check that.
I will probably be back sooner than i thought. Likely some time during Christmas week so I will have a look through the records in detail then.
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It's great you are close enough to visit. Thanks again.
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I spotted a gravestone to Margaret Lockhart (died 16th November 1928 aged 78) in Templepatrick Parish Churchyard. The grave is also used by Andrew Logan (d 1972) and his wife Anna (d 1986) who are probably relatives.
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Many Thanks for that. Not sure were they fit in at present --but they will in time.
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Hello all,
I have been back to the PRONI and have went through all of the reel for Templepatrick Presbyterian Church. I don't think I have missed anything, but it is possible but unfortunately it hasn't really shed much light onto the Cochran family going back. On the first search I didn't go through the whole record as I didn't know if the Cochran's were going to be there, I have found the following information:
To clarify last time: There is a list of families in the congregation dated 1831.
I found a family consisting of:
Christopher Cochrine/Cochine/Cochrane (it's hard to read)
Agnes Bartly (is the maiden name) widower of a labourer dies 12th January 1871 aged 75 (birth at circa 1796) - Jane Connelly present at death, in Templepatrick.
Mary Cochrane
Eliza Cochrane marries James Hagen on 16th October 1852 at the Antrim Registrars Office. James Hagen is shown as age 30 and a laborer. James' father was Patrick Hagen, profession listed as pensioner. Residence at marriage is Toberagnee, Parish of Ballymartin (https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/ballymartin/toberagnee/).
Charles Cochrane
Margaret Cochrane marries James Lockhart at the Antrim Registrar Office on 14th November 1853.
The townland which they are stated to be in is Templepatrick (so the town).
I found the marriage of Mary Cochrane who married Thomas Granger on 31st March 1843, residence is Clachanduff. Christopher and Agnes were the parents.
Their children:
William Granger was born to Thomas and Mary in May/1843, baptised 7/6/1843 at Clachanduff
Christopher Granger was born 22/11/1844, baptised 12/1/1845 at Craigarogan.
David was born 7/6/1849, baptised 9/9/1849 at Craigarogan.
The reel then has a list of communicants:
married person Christian Cochran 1834 (i have no idea who this is.)
Young person Mary Cochran 1840
Thomas Granger 1843
Margaret Cochran 1848
There is then a list of the congregation in 1857:
None of the Cochran family is present except Mary with Thomas who are resident in Cotton Mount.
My assumption would be that they changed church. Given the fact that Eliza and Margaret didn't even marry at the church it would be assumed that they had left it. What is interesting is Agnes who wouldn't die until 1871, she no longer attends (unless she was listed in with another family). No mention of Christopher either. Perhaps he was dead by then?
I can't remember the context for this but a Mary Cochran appears again, I don't believe there was a year but she is listed in Toberagnew with Thomas Price then a list of names, assumed children of Thomas, Elizabeth, Margaret, Janet, Mary. Mary Cochran is then named as such at the end and is referred to as a niece.
The only other thing about this is that the Presbyterian Church in Templepatrick split at some point into Non-subscribing Presbyterians and some other form of Presbyterian. So maybe they are in there. I don't know and I can't remember the year of the split. It may be worth checking out when I next go there.
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You have been busy. Many thanks for this and on the back of it, I have just discovered
a tree on Ancestry for Christopher Granger b 22/11/1844 that you mention . He marries Eliza Stewart and they have 2 sons. Christopher b 1876 and a brother Thomas b1879.
Perhaps of more interest is that Mary and Thomas Granger (according to the tree on line) had another son--James b 1847 who married Margaret J Gormal 1849-1907. They go on to have 5 Children.
But as the owner of the tree starts with Mary Cochrane and Thomas Granger it suggests they dont alas have any information going further back.
All the best.
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I didn't think it had been that long since my last post.
Anyway. I had been to the Presbyterian Historical Society of Ireland in Belfast and they advised me to check out the Templepatrick Non-Subscribing Presbyterian Church records for any Cochrans further back. This is because the church split in 1830/1831 to create 1. Templepatrick Presbyterian and 2. the Non-Subscribing Presbyterian. The earliest records for the church pre-split are within the Non-Subscribing records and go back to 1796.
As advised previously, the Cochrans appear in Templepatrick Presbyterian in the 1831 census of the congregation and are living in Templepatrick town. So this would indicate that following the split they changed churches to join the new congregation (as the oldest records are in the Non-Subscribing).
There is bad news and some good news.
The bad news is that Christopher Cochran, Agnes Bartley or any of the children: Charles, Margaret etc. I could not find any records for them. I checked practically every page from the beginning of the microfilm until the early 1830s (given that they appear in the census of the congregation of the other church, there's no point checking beyond this). I saw absolutely zero Bartleys in this church. Cochran-wise there was only really one Cochran family in the records.
I checked as follows:
Baptisms
1796 - 1802 - Nothing - this doesn't really matter as there are no details of parents, just a list of the childs name. Only after 1802 do fathers start to get mentioned
24th Feb 1803 Andrew son to John Cochran, place is listed but couldn't read it.
1804 - 1807 - nothing
27th Jan 1808 - Susanna to John Cochran - appears to be Ballyutogue
1809 - 1810 - nothing
3rd Jan 1811 - Thomas son to John Cochran, Ballyutogue
10th August 1812 - Amelia to John Cochran
1813 - 1814 - nothing
9th April 1815 - Margaret to John Cochran - Ballyutogue
1816 - nothing
22nd Feb 1817 - Andrew to John Cochran
1818 - 1820 - nothing
18th Dec 1821 - Isabella to John Cochran
1822 - 1833 - nothing.
Marriages
1798 - 1799 - nothing
8th Dec 1800 - John Cochran to Mary Nesbitt
1801 - 1805 and 1807 - 1823 nothing
Now the good news? Interestingly up until this point there are no witnesses to marriages. In a June 1824 marriage there is a witness named 'Christy Cochran' - it isn't clear if it's referring to him/her or the record but it says 'of Donegore' - the Church of Ireland has ties between Templepatrick/Donegore so maybe could try there.
1825 - nothing
Jan 12th 1826 - Andrew Cochran to Agnes Scott of Mallusk
1827 - 1828 - nothing
1829 - David Cochran to Susan Price, Toberagnew
1830 - 1833 - nothing
Also checked new communicants - twice a year between June 1811 and Oct 1824 - no Cochrans.
My conclusion from this is as follows:
I did my best to read every single line of every page, some was hard to read but this is all I could find. It's possible I could have missed something but I am fairly confident that I haven't given that no marriage for Christopher and Agnes and no baptism of Christopher or any of the children. It's weird that they were living in Templepatrick in 1831, but yet not previously attending a church there. It is possible that they could have moved there or previously went to Donegore as its pretty close to the church. Future checks of Donegore 1st will confirm this.
EDIT: or Lyle hill Presbyterian.
I refer to the second post of this thread:
"I did find an Emilia COCHRAN marrying a Mathew O'HARA, in December 1830.
Both hailed from "Ballyutogue" (sic)
[aka, Ballyutoag - another Templepatrick townland - large, lying to the South.]
The ceremony was performed by the Rev. John M'MILLAN.
[As far as I could determine he was the long-term incumbent of the Presbyterian Church at Lylehill.]"
The Emilia, is very likely the Amelia I found the baptism for.
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Hello JD (from a fellow JD!),
Henry COOKE was engaged as Minister at Donegore for a short period [1811-1818].
Unfortunately, perhaps because of his hectic political activities, some of the notebooks went astray at this time - so there are gaps in the records for that church during the early 18thC.
[e.g. Weddings 1808-1811 & 1812-1819]
I had a search of the 1st Donegore marriage register for you, but found no COCHRAN in the 19thC.
[N.B. Be aware that 2nd Donegore "up the hill" were a Seceding congregation ...]
You might also want to keep Carnmoney Pb in mind.
[... and perhaps even Ballycraigy Congregational ... but, er, its records are currently classified as "missing" ...]
Capt. Jock
Ref: The Parkgate Presbyterians
People and Kirk over Four Centuries
The First Donegore Story
Donald ALEXANDER [ed. John HALL & Melodie NEAL]
First Donegore Press 2011 235pp
Web: http://firstdonegore.org
N.B. No mention of COCHRAN in the index.
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Thanks very much for that information. Very useful!
If they aren't in Donegore I would wonder where they came from. As they are living in Templepatrick in 1831 and didn't attend Templepatrick Presbyterian pre-1830.
Carnmoney Presbyterian is a quare distance away from Templepatrick. I don't know if Antrim 1st would be closer.
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hello again. You have been busy with our Mystery family. Thanks for all the work.