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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 13:41 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 13:41 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I have just been sent this info from another member on Genes, she had looked at Scotlands People site

William Walker & Mary Bruce marriage on 22nd May 1865 at 14 Willington Street Dundee.
That Mary being the daughter of Alexander Bruce & Ann Bruce m.s. Wilcox

On 1871 census Mary Walker is 33 Seaman's wife says (Stonehaven) likely Kincardinshire living at 15 Yeats Lane Aberdeen with children Alexandrina, Andrew , Mary

Would like to find Mary on 1841,1851 and 1861 census records to help me further with my research.

 :)
Title: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 14:06 GMT (UK)
Hi

Think I may have posted on wrong board previously

Mary Walker Nee Bruce  age given as 33 born Stonehaven (likely kincardinshire) on 1871 census is at 15 Yeats lane, Aberdeen with her children Andrew, Alexandrina and Mary. ( Seaman's wife).  marriage entry in Scotland's People of William Walker & Mary Bruce on 22nd May 1865 at 14 Willington Street Dundee.
That Mary being the daughter of Alexander Bruce & Ann Bruce m.s. Wilcox

Would like to find Mary Bruce  on 1841,1851 and 1861 census please



Topics merged to prevent duplication
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 14:42 GMT (UK)
thank you
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Saturday 31 October 15 15:02 GMT (UK)
Hi

Do you know what Mary's father Alexander's occupation was on her marriage cert?

Were both Alexander and Ann still alive in 1865?

Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 15:04 GMT (UK)
I don't know the information was sent from a Genes member to me



Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Saturday 31 October 15 16:02 GMT (UK)
I think it would probably be good if you actually get the details of Mary's marriage from scotlands people for your self then you will know what her fathers occupation was and whether both her parents status ie alive or deceased. It will also give Mary's address at time of marriage and witnesses. Who if they are related to Mary will possibly help find her on the censuses

Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 October 15 18:46 GMT (UK)
As higgsy mentions, the marriage cert will help you now.

I can't see a death for Mary after 1871 in Scotland easily. Did she and the family move away after then? No more children showing as born in Scotland after Andrew's birth in Aberdeen in 1870...

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 31 October 15 18:48 GMT (UK)
...but we are trying to also search for ealier census entries for Mary with family. Any clues as to her father's occupation so far?

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 22:54 GMT (UK)
I know the children moved to yorkshire. Andrew Walker married Mary Turner Alton 1894, Alexandrina Walker married Fred Wood and Mary Bruce Walker married W Scholfield. Don't know where William Walker and Mary Walker Nee Bruce went
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 22:55 GMT (UK)
Can you see on the census records 1841 or 1851 a Mary Bruce with an Alexander and Ann :)
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Saturday 31 October 15 22:57 GMT (UK)
hi

Address given at time of marriage 14 Willington Street Dundee
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: ev on Sunday 01 November 15 08:44 GMT (UK)
Hi all ,

Have you checked the original 1871 Census ?

Using the index at Scotlandspeople I've found -
St Nicholas Aberdeen
Mary Walker age 28(born c1843) , with second persons Alexandrina Walker age 5 , Mary Walker age 3 , Andrew Walker age 1.

The children's ages would seem to match with these references -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYRH-9JS
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYGK-8X9
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYT4-J4P

The marriage certificate should help in confirming Mary Bruce's age.

So , are we looking for a Mary Bruce born c1843 not c1833 ?



ev
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Sunday 01 November 15 16:22 GMT (UK)
marriage of Mary Bruce and William Walker 22/5/1865


William Walker was a Seaman - aged 28 & a Bachelor- living at 222 Overgate, Dundee. He was the son of Alexander Walker - Labourer & Helen Walker m.s. Gordon. Mary Bruce was a Domestic Servant - aged 23 & a Spinster - also living at 222 Overgate Dundee. Her father Alexander Bruce was a Bleacher's Labourer & her mother Ann Bruce m.s. Wilcox was deceased by the time of Mary's marriage...Their marriage was witnessed by Thomas Hunter & Arthur Kerr & the officiating minister was R. Logan.
 
according to marriage Mary Bruce born circa 1842 and not 1833. William Walker  1837

would like to find both Alexander Walker and Helen Walker in earlier census records and also Alexander Bruce too

Many thanks  :)

Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Sunday 01 November 15 17:24 GMT (UK)
Hi  :)

Have found an marriage on family search for Alexander Walker and Helen Gordon 26/7/1831 OldMeldrum  Aberdeen. Would like to find Alexander Walker with wife Helen on 1841,1851, 1861 census records

any help much appreciated
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Sunday 01 November 15 17:40 GMT (UK)
There is aa Alexander and Hellen Walker living at 21 Water Lane Aberdeen on the 1851 census. He was born Oldmeldrum and is a labourer. She is born Oldmeldrum too. They have George19, Rachel 14, Alexander 11, Joseph 7 and Margaret Smith 3 al children born Aberdeen apart from George who was born in Oldmeldrum.

Don't know if this is your family. No William with them

Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Sunday 01 November 15 17:46 GMT (UK)
Think it may be your family as they are living at Park Lane Aberdeen in the 1841 census and have all children plus William Walker born 1835 living with the.

Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Sunday 01 November 15 18:01 GMT (UK)
hi

thank you, I have found the 1851 census on freecen, can't seem to see 1841 census are they the same people as before
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Sunday 01 November 15 18:11 GMT (UK)
Yes, struggling to find them on the 1861. Did the marriage cert say if Hellen was deceased?


Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Sunday 01 November 15 18:13 GMT (UK)
only Mary Bruces's mother

 :-\
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 November 15 18:56 GMT (UK)
To add the detail to Norma's post from earlier, this looks to be the 1841 entry:

Alexander Walker 30 lab. b. Scotland
Hellen Walker 25 b. Scotland
George Walker 9 b. Scotland
William Walker 6
Rachiel Walker 4
Alexander Walker 2

Address: Park Lane

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 November 15 19:05 GMT (UK)
On the Walker side....not sure if you have access to subs part of A/try.com for members' family trees.

One here which shows Alexander Snr having died 1889 in Old Meldrum and Helen Gordon in 1878 in Aberdeen - http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/6454807/person/256523438  This tree looks to be following daughter Rachel b. 1837.

This is given as a possible 1881 entry, but just for Alexander:

Alexander Walker 73 General Labourer (Pauper) b. Meldrum
Address: 13 James St, Old Meldrum

Something to work from. 1861 and 1871 census are obviously outstanding so far...

Monica  :)

Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 November 15 19:13 GMT (UK)
Maybe Alexander and Helen split up  :-\

1871 has:

Ellen Walker 58 Washerwoman b. Old Meldrum
Joseph Walker 27 Labourer (dock)
Margt Walker 23 Wool Mill Worker b. Aberdeen
Joseph A Walker 12 grandson b. Aberdeen
Address: 14 Chapel Lane, Aberdeen

Maybe this entry for Alexander in 1871?:

Alexander Walker 63 Labourer (road) b. Old Meldrum
Address: 13 Back Wynd, Old Meldrum

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 November 15 19:18 GMT (UK)
1861, so far can only possibly see Alexander Snr:

Alexander Walker 52 Ag Lab b. Meldrum
Address: Back Wynd, Meldrum

Original image of census from Scotlands People for all of the above would help in showing marital status for these entries, which the transcripts often don't depending on sources.

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Sunday 01 November 15 19:20 GMT (UK)
Saw that Alexander but dismissed him due to him being on his own.

Looks like they possibly did split. Only way to confirm would be yo find Ellen/Hellens death cert and see if it says wife of Alexander. Or vice versa.

Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Sunday 01 November 15 19:24 GMT (UK)
Hi

Thank you for all your help much appreciated :)
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 November 15 20:19 GMT (UK)
Rachel is showing as having married an Alexander Russell in 1869 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJN-VJ4  This might help with further details - parents, addresses and witnesses names.

I think this is their first (?) born son marrying in later years https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FHZX-18X

...But, we need to keep on your direct lines  ::)

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 01 November 15 21:49 GMT (UK)
Hi in 1861, Helen Walker 42 b Aberdeenshire Ratchel 22 b Aberdeen Joseph 17 b Aberdeen Margret 13 b Aberdeen Johanna Wargeson? Female 2 Grand Child b Aberdeen
Residing Pork/Park Lane, Aberdeen
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 01 November 15 22:19 GMT (UK)
Keyboard86...that looks very likely with what we have. Well done for that  :)

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 01 November 15 22:45 GMT (UK)
Hi again, transcript only again for 1851:-

Margaret Smith Walker 3 b Aberdeen along with siblings and Alexander 43 b Oldmeldrum and Hellen 39 b Oldmeldrum
Resiidng at 21, Water Lane, Aberdeen
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: jennywren001 on Monday 02 November 15 10:59 GMT (UK)
Have you had a look at the Mary Bruce age 8 living with her granny Hellen Leys in Fetteresso in 1851 seems a bit of a coincidence that one of the other grandchildren is called Ann 'Wilox'.
Jen


Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 02 November 15 21:27 GMT (UK)
Jen, that is an interesting possibility isn't it. We are stuck so far on Mary's side  :-\

From your info for 1851, Freecen has in that household a granddaughter from what you found (showing as d/daughter) as Ann Wilcox, the other transcript service have that entry as Ann Wilson. All d/g children born in Fetteresso.

Hellen Leys 67 pauper b. Angus - Arbroath
Hellen Watson 30 daughter unmarried weaver b. Angus - Duninichen
James Mckey 12
Mary Bruce 8
Ann Wilson OR Wilcox   ? 3
Address: Evan Street, Fetteresso Kincardineshire

I can only see one Mary Bruce so far in 1861, working in a farm. Also a John Bruce there, age 11. Think these two show as children of a William and Agnes Bruce in Fourdoun, Kincardineshire in 1851. Birth places from 1851 of Fetteresson and Fordoun match for these two.

Can't see another Mary Bruce so far...

Monica  :-\
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Monday 02 November 15 23:32 GMT (UK)
Re Helen Leys have found on family search says husband James Watson with daughter Helen Watson born 24/9/1819 Christened 3/10/1819 Forfar Angus. 
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Monday 02 November 15 23:34 GMT (UK)
They married 6 Jun 1819 Forfar, Angus Scotland on family search
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Monday 02 November 15 23:54 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your help, have made a note of this for a later date

 :) :)
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: ev on Tuesday 03 November 15 07:51 GMT (UK)
Children from that 1851 Census ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYN9-1S4
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYNM-BBL
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYN9-ZWY



ev
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Tuesday 03 November 15 08:08 GMT (UK)
Hi

I have just looked at Mary Bruce marriage age 23 and was a domestic servant marriage to William walker 22/5/1865.  father's name Alexander Bruce and it does look more mothers name was ann Willox than Wilcox . On later census says Mary was Kincardineshire Stonehaven?
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: isobelw on Tuesday 03 November 15 08:30 GMT (UK)
There is a John Willox age 27 living in Stonehaven in the 1851 census with his mother and brother.
(Ancestry)
Isobel
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Tuesday 03 November 15 08:34 GMT (UK)
Hi

I  unfortunately I haven't got ancestry.

Thank you all for your help

Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: isobelw on Tuesday 03 November 15 08:38 GMT (UK)
You should be able to find this on Freecen as well.
Isobel
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Tuesday 03 November 15 08:44 GMT (UK)
Hi just looked on freecen have also tried putting Wilcox and Willox nothing as come up for that name or area
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: isobelw on Tuesday 03 November 15 08:51 GMT (UK)
If you look for John Willox living in Kincardineshire on the 1851 census on Freecen it brings up two people of that name living in Stonehaven(Fetteresso)
Isobel
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 03 November 15 19:28 GMT (UK)
Ok, a possible census entry.

We all know how variable/wrong ages can be recorded. We have been working so far with Mary Bruce born c. 1842-3 from the info we have.

She could have been born a few years ealier maybe?

There is this 1841 census I have just seen:

Alex Bruce 30 agri. lab. b. Perthshire, Scotland
Mary Bruce 2 b. Scotland

Address: Balbrogie, Coupar Angus, Perthshire

Monica

Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: higgsy on Tuesday 03 November 15 20:37 GMT (UK)
Couple of other thoughts

1) Have you got Mary Bruce/walkers death record just to see what her parents have been recorded as

2) could her mums name have been Willock? There is an Ann Willock born Kincardineshire  1819. Could Mary have been illegitimate and her mum marry Alexander Bruce at a later date?


Norma
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 03 November 15 21:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Norma  :)

Not sure if Mary died in Scotland - haven't been able to find a death cert for her on SP with the names we have for her here  :-\ There was mention that a number of the children showed in England later. Last child (from Family Search) who looks to have been born in Scotland is Andrew in 1870 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYT4-J4L and then we had the 1871 census.

amandar, where was Mary and children in 1881/91 do you know?

Monica
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Wednesday 04 November 15 15:43 GMT (UK)
Hi

Alexandrina Walker married Fred Wood Daw Green Dewsbury 17/12/1887 says father William Walker Rope Slicer

Mary Bruce Walker married Wellington Scholefield 23/10/1886 Birstall Brides father William Walker Mariner

Andrew Gordon Walker married Married Mary Turner Alton 31/07/1894 in Elesecar Barnsley

There is a marriage for a William Walker to Elizabeth Davidson BMD June 1880  Barnsley( don't know if same one)  I dont know when Mary first wife died.


1881 in Barugh Barnsley with new wife born 1841 and her son John Davidson age 8  down as John Walker born 1873, I am sure on one census  and on the next say John Davidson. Mary Walker age 13 domestic servant, Andrew Walker age 11. there is no Alexandrina on though - don't know where she was.   it says Elizabeth Davidson born Scotland. 

could be a possibility not sure though
Title: Re: Mary Bruce born circa 1833 looking for her on 1841.1851 and 1861 census records
Post by: amandar on Wednesday 04 November 15 15:57 GMT (UK)
Re Mary Bruce with grandmother this is not the same one I'm looking for her father was James Bruce and Helen Watson.  The Helen Watson shown unmarried with her mother Helen Leys.  Was the mother to all the children James Mckay, Mary Bruce and Ann Willox  and  I found other children and a member on genes messaged me to say Helen Watson (the daughter was his ggg grandmother) She never married.  Where as Helen Leys did marry James Watson, Helen Watson father.