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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: brynjon on Thursday 03 December 15 14:29 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am researching my paternal line and know my great grandfather was known as Thomas Emrys JONES - on the majority of census 1891, 1901 and 1911, he is shown as being born in Hanley, Staffs though it appears he may have been born in Flintshire as on 1871 this is where he is shown as living in Mold with his mother Elizabeth father Thomas, brother John Edward and sister Margaret. It appears Thomas senior remarried (though did not find death of Elizabeth) as on 1881 census he is again living in Flintshire with wife of Thomas snr shown as Ellin - there is also a brother born at same age as John Edward who is not on the 1871 census (David)
His brother John Edward JONES born 1867 is shown on the various census and it seems Thomas and John travelled to Cumberland in 1891 and living in area of Ellenborough/Dearham where he married Margaret Hannah ARMSTRONG b 29/11/1869 at Union Workhouse, Cockermouth (whose parents I cannot find). Great grandfather TE Jones is shown on his wedding certificate as residing in New Seaham, Co. Durham 19/11/1892 which is where I find TEJ on the various census afterwards as well as his brother JEJ.
So my query is - how will I locate his birth record? as he is shown as born in two different places - or perhaps I am wrong in my findings thus far.
On 1939 records Thomas Emrys is acturally shown as Thomas H JONES living with a son Joseph Holland JONES (54, Seventh Street, Horden, Co Durham. Any assistance would be appreciated.
Best regards - Bryn
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Could you please give us the census reference for him in 1891 and 1901, thanks :)
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So my query is - how will I locate his birth record? as he is shown as born in two different places - or perhaps I am wrong in my findings thus far.
Well that depends how many Thomas Emrys Jones birth registrations there are! I can imagine a lot of Thomas Jones but as you have his exact date of birth it should be found in the Dec 1868 quarter (or perhaps Jan 1869) so that narrows it down considerably.
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There is one Thomas Jones registered Dec 1868 in Stoke upon Trent, unfortunately no Emrys or E in the name.
Flintshire has a few more options.
Where does his brother have for a birthplace?
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March 1868 - December 1869 - FreeBMD
There are no instances of birth registrations for Thomas Emrys, Emrys or Emrys Thomas Jones :'(
From StaffordshireBMD there are two instances of Thomas Jones in Hanley in 1868 - mother's maiden name of Evason and Jones.
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In 1871 John Edward and Thomas have birthplace of Llanasa Flintshire which leads to Holywell registration district.
Both parents have birthplace Whitford also Holywell district so likely they also married there.
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Thanks for the work folks - My belief (due to working out family ties within Seaham area) are that the following census contain my Thomas Emrys and John Edward Jones.
1871 Census in Mold RG 10 5649
1881 Census Llanwrwst RG 11 5534
1891 Census Dearham RG 12 4103
1901 Census in Seaham RG 13 4689
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Hi re the "David" shown on the 1881, I note both he and Ellin were born Llanrwst Denbighshire just wondering if the Ellen Jones 34 and amongst other children a David Jones 2 both born Llanrwst are in the Workhouse Llanrwst in 1871 Ellen married to a John Jones?
Census ref RG10/5676/59/15
Keyboard86
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Hi. Thanks for the response. Only recently did I discover that census having discounted so many previously. Having tied in the John Edward Jones and the link to Cumberland and onwards to Seaham couldn't say with any conviction they were correct. My issue is in the conflict between Flintshire and Hanley, Staffs.
I think I can say that Ellington was a 2nd wife to Thomas senior with David perhaps the result of an earlier relationship as he and John Edward are born the same year but different places, though tying in Thomas Emrys to the family.
The other thing that threw me was on the 1939 record he is shown as Thomas H Jones rather than Thomas E. He was the correct record in 1939 as the head of household was my father's uncle.
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Staffordshire BMD have a birth for John Jones mmn Williams in 1867 at Hanley HAN/034/014 and for a Thomas Jones mmn Williams in 1869 in Hanley HAN/034/083. As you have Thomas Emrys's dob it may be worth asking if this Thomas has the same dob - worth a try.
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Hello, Joseph Holland Jones was my maternal grand father and lived at 54seventh Street until he died. He was baptised in the marnle church at Bodelwyddan near rhyl, denbighshire. Don't know much about his mum or dad, but he did speak Welsh.
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That's the one. He was my great uncle on my paternal side. Would be great to compare notes. Are you still up in the Land of the Prince Bishops?
Cheers - Bryn
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No, strangely I moved to Rhyl when I was 16with absolutely no knowledge od my grand father's past and we actually lived in Bodelwyddan for a time. Very strange when we found out, almost pure destined. I noticed there is a Margaret hannah in your post and that was my grand mother's name, too. Yes, would be good to compare notes. I think my sister has most of the paperwork from that side of the family. Good to hear from you! Kind regards, Margaret
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Hi cousin Margaret - my dad and uncle have for tears been trying to work out where Thomas Emrys family came from. One problem being the census showed his birth as Hanley so they had concentrated their efforts there. My email address is brynjon at gmail dot com
Would be great to share information we have with you. Dad is 83 and he will be thrilled to learn about Joseph Holland and the rest of the Family. Best regards Bryn
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The following seems worth considering:-
NorthWalesBMD confirms a John Edward Jones born Whitford 1867
(there is no equivalent for a Thomas in 1868/9)
The GRO indices have a John Edward Jones Holywell district 1867 mmn Williams
Staffordshire BMD have a Thomas Jones registered Hanley 1869 mmn Williams
(there may be a typo in fairlane's ref,I think it should be HAN/037/083)
There is a possible marriage of Thomas Jones to Ellen Williams,Northop,1865
(perhaps Elizabeth was an error?)
Regards
Roger
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Hi Roger - thanks for your response. We are now very certain Thomas Emrys was born in Llanasa 27/11/1868.
He and his brothers (miners) moved to Cumbria in the late 1800s and then again to Seaham, Co. Durham in the early 1900s.
We checked with Staffs record office and the Thomas born there is not our Thomas. Further enquiries found us at Holywell parish and Whitford, where we obtained a birth certificate - his parents being Thomas Jones b12/5/1839 in Whitford and Elizabeth Holland b23/5/1839 Whitford which tie in very nicely with the Joseph Holland Jones (Thomas Emrys' brother).
Many thanks and best regards - Bryn
Best regards - Bryn