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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Mercian7 on Wednesday 03 February 16 10:36 GMT (UK)
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Hi
In 1866 my relation Eliza Lavinia Mary Main married Edward Canavore at St Paul's chapel Dundee. There are two things about the records I would appreciate any advise people can give, namely:
1. Although Edward's name is clearly Canavore and his father is named as John Canavore, I can find very few records with this surname in the world and none with these forenames. Has anyone heard of these people?
2. The certificate uses two terms I have not come across before except in ancient Greece. Edward is described as "Equestrian" and Eliza is described as "Tragedian". Has anyone a clue what these terms mean in this context? Are they used in other Episcopal records?
many thanks
John
Image cropped - copyright.
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Can't answer either of your questions at the moment but can see that a "Frederic Charles Canover" was christened in Lambeth in Nov 1871 to parents Edward Canover and Eliza Lavinia Mary. A "Frederick Charles Canover" was born in Leeds in Oct/Nov/Dec 1870 ... so might be worth trying to find these people on the 1871 census for more info which might help to answer your initial questions!
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1871 census, Frederick Canovin (A/try transcription), aged 5 months, born Leeds, lodging with Elizabeth Kent, aged 64, in Plymouth
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1871 census, Frederick Canovin (A/try transcription), aged 5 months, born Leeds, lodging with Elizabeth Kent, aged 64, in Plymouth
Also with Frederick was Rose Canovin listed as married aged 21 and an artist born in London, Middlesex
And welcome to RootsChat :)
Kay
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Couple on marriage cert also had a daughter named Rosie Lavinia Harriet Canover born in Islington Nov 1866.
Place of abode for parents Denmark Street
Occupation of father Edward is Equestrian
This child died in Sheffield, 1867
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A widowed Eliza Lavinia Canover age 33 married a Britton Broughton in Liverpool on 27 Jan 1885 with her father's name listed as Charles Mayne. Edit - Britton was listed at the time of a previous marriage as a comedian
Maybe the Canavore surname has a number of versions. The children appear to be listed as Canover
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Mercian possibly has all the family info and the OP asks about the occupations on the marrigae cert
I have seen Equestrian on certs before, and looking at the baptisms of his children, it confirms my interpretation.
he was a professional Horse Trainer.
As for Eliiza, I have never seen Tragedian before but I guess that she was some sort of actress?
Could these occupations be based on their own words rather than the registrar's?
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As the wife later married a comedian I wonder if both their occupations related to the theatre
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http://www.terrys.org.uk/charts/c/canav500.htm
Family tree for Frederick, the son, gives father's occupation as 'trainer'
Perhaps he was some sort of theatrical equestrian trainer
The marriage cert gives his address as 'Union Hotel' so might confirm that the couple were travelling rather than permanent residents of Dundee
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A Britton Broughton was mentioned in 1877 Huddersfield Chronicle as Theatre proprietor.
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I think I know what this is and Kay99 will be correct!
Advert in Dundee Adertiser dated 25 Dec 1865.
SANGERS GREAT HIPPODRAMATIC CIRCUS
One of the Hippodramatic Artistes is Rosa Mayne ( Theatre Royal Dublin)
This event was a grand spectaular which included Equestrian and Gymnastic Entertainments:
MAZZEPPA OR THE WILD HORSE OF TARTARY
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Which could explain why Eliza was listed as Rose with profession of artist in 1871 :) Well found Anne
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There are many articles relating to Rosa Mayne but as yet, I can't tie her to Eliza.
I thought it may be a stage name but her theatre dates progress long after this 1866 marriage
EDIT:
IT IS HER!
The marriage is announced in The Era dated 11 Mar 1866.
It has the same date and place for the marriage, names the same Episcopal Minister. ( McNamara)
She is described at Rosa Mayne but Edward is described as : EDWARD KERWYN
Both members of Sangsters Royal Hippodramatic Circus, DUNDEE
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Was about to say Dundee, not Dublin, but see you've corrected your post.
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Dundee Courier of March 14 1866 mentions Rose and a Mr Kerwin. Courier of March 6 also refers to marriage between Rosa and Edwin Kerwin.
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As Eliza's stage name was clearly Rosa Mayne, does the same apply to Edward Kerwin/Canavore?
Or was his last name actually Kerwyn ?
A wee bit of digging will be on order!
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https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8hvjsAqbsbkC&pg=PA171&dq=%22EDWARD+KERWIN%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHjoid7tvKAhUJOhoKHSC6AGQQ6AEIIzAB#v=onepage&q=%22EDWARD%20KERWIN%22&f=false
The Acrobat: Arthur Barnes and the Victorian Circus
By John Stewart, page 171 mentions:
"Mr Edward Kerwin, a young Lancastrian fellow, equestrian and elephant trainer"
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p.173 of the same book mentions the following are living together on 1861 census night: "Bob Chadwick, John Griffiths, the Zamezous, George Knight, Davis Richards, Anthony Powell, and Edward Kerwin" ... can anyone find them?!
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Portland Street, Manchester, 1861 (RG9/2943 Folio 114 Page 6) has some of the Sanger family in 'travelling carriages', so possibly worth checking nearby.
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1861 Edward Kerwin b 1839 Manchester listed as Equestrian living a lodger in Manchester RG 9 Piece 2944 Folio 111 Page 33
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Looking for his birth.
The closest that I can find is:
Edward KIRWAN b Mar 1839 Manchester
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I think I know why Eliza and her son were on the 1871 census as lodgers.
She is described as married.
Note: she is entered as age 21. Same age she married at 5yrs earlier??
At this time, Sangers Circus was travelling in the US.
Massachussets, Rhode Island and Connecticut.
Will check US papers later for any sign of the elusive husband
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Thank you all so much for your replies. Its amazing what you have found. I will look up all you have told me and report back.
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I had a good browse of US newspapers.
Although there are loads of Adverts and a good few articles, I found nothing of any relevance to Edwin/Edward.
This tour was a travelling menagerie rather that a show production.
They travelled all over New England and Pennsylvania
Mercian found that he already has access to all the British newspapers and has since located all the articles posted here relating to Edwin/Edward and Rosa/Eliza
EDIT:
I forgot to say That the birth that I found for Edward Kirwan 1839 in Manchester looks to be correct
His mother's name is listed as: WEST
Mother's name on the 1866 marriage cert says: Mary West
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
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I do wonder if this baptism might relate to a sibling of Edward/Edwin?? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5LJ-STX
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Looking for Edward and family on 1851 census, can anyone see original of this:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKK9-X6K1
The child is 'illegible' but the father is John and the mother is Mary, born Plymouth which caught my eye as that's where Rose/Eliza was lodging on the 1871 census, might be a red herring though.
I've drawn a blank looking for Rose/Eliza with Frederick and/or Edward on the 1881 census or Edward on the 1871 ... anyone any luck?
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Does look like it Kay99.
Hampshire in 1833 then Manchester in 1839?
Perhaps they were travelling too?
Something that did strike me about the Sangers Hippodrome Advert in Dundee of Dec 1865.
Most male performers were listed as "Mr" but Edwin/Edward and one other male were billed as:
"Monsieur"
When I first saw the marriage cert, I read it as Canavore (as in Canavo..ray) and thought it could be italian.
Now I wonder if Canavor was the French version of Kerwin/Kirwan etc
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On the marriage cert Edward's father is also listed as an Equestrian - so presumably he was born into the business.
Quite possible that Kirwan was a Anglicised version of their name. How wonderful to have such an interesting family
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Hi All,
Thank you for all your suggestions. It seems that as the family were in Theatre/Circus they do not appear much in census. I have had a lovely time dowloading newspaper reports about them from Find my Past.
Eliza Lavinia Mary Main was probably born in Woolwich in 1844 although I have yet to kind her baptism. Her parents were Charles Henry Main (born in 1806 in Woolwich ) a baker and Ann Standage/Standish who was born in 1816 in Godalming, Surrey. Eliza is my grandmother Annie's great aunt. Her brother Charles Henry Main (born in 1838 in Camberwell) settled in Portsmouth after marrying Mary Elizabeth Shapland ( born in 1837 in Swimbridge, Devon). They had Annie Susan Louisa Main (born 1874 in Portsmouth ) who married my paternal grandfather Herbert John Pead in 1899 in Portsmouth.
I thought you would like some background detail as to why I am interested in Eliza. We have never had any theatrical folk in my family nor any gymnasts or elephant trainers. We do have a Privateer in the 18th Century but he was a Pead.
Thank you again for all your help
Cheers
John
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Probably not relevant to you Mercian7 but I was looking at other families caller Canover and I found another family of ACTORS!
This one is James Canover b 1837 in Leicester.
He married 1855 in Perth,Scotland to an Actress named Jane Laurie.
They were both comedy actors. (Much of Rosa's stuff was comedy too)
Their children were all born in Scotland but can be found in Yorkshire 1881 and in Durham 1891.
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I couldn't resist checking the marriage of James and Jane in 1855 - His father is listed as John Canover - deceased - and mother Mary Canover - maiden name West - so a brother to Edward
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Just about to say the same Kay.
I didn't look at the marrige but I did look at the births of their children who were all born in Scotland.
The names include James, Mary and Edward.
Found with wife and kids in Glasgow at 1861 name transcribed as Cunovire. Occ Musician
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Are they used in other Episcopal records?
I see that you are asking about Episcopal records.
The extract you have posted is not from the Episcopal records; it's a marriage certificate from the statutory civil registers. Civil, not ecclesiastical.
There are more religious denominations in Scotland than you can shake a stick at, but the majority are Presbyterian as opposed to Episcopal.
Episcopal specifically means that the church has a hierarchy of bishops, for example the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches.
Presbyterian churches, for example the Church of Scotland, have no bishops. They are organised by a series of committees: kirk session, presbytery, synod and general assembly. The head of each presbyterian denomination is called the Moderator.
Do you have any particular reason for mentioning Episcopal records? For example, do you think they attended the Episcopal Church of Scotland?
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I see this is a pretty old thread. The Frederick Kerwin is really Frederick Canavor who immigrated to New YORK. no record of immigration, he left a family in England and started a new family in the U.S. his son Edward Kimpton Canavor was married to my grandmother. Edward was left in England when Frederick, born in 1870 abandoned the family. the family is rather secretive, not alot of info out there about them. discovered the Frederick Kerwin connection, on his military record, which says he would like to be referred to as Frederick Canavor.
now, I understand where that name Kerwin/Kerwyn came from, never understood it. very enlightening thread.
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Looking for Edward and family on 1851 census, can anyone see original of this:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKK9-X6K1
The child is 'illegible' but the father is John and the mother is Mary, born Plymouth which caught my eye as that's where Rose/Eliza was lodging on the 1871 census, might be a red herring though.
I've drawn a blank looking for Rose/Eliza with Frederick and/or Edward on the 1881 census or Edward on the 1871 ... anyone any luck?
the child is Edward..age 16 occupation errand boy