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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: lotsahunters on Tuesday 09 February 16 00:55 GMT (UK)
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Kezia Woodward, my GGG Grandmother married William Steel 22 July 1829 in Weston Under Wetherley parish. According to the record they were both of that parish. John Barnacle and Isabella Steel were witnesses, and everyone signed the document. William and Kezia had at least nine children, 6 died very young. The first 4 children were christened in Weston Under Wetherley; Sarah 1830, James 1831-1831; Emma 1833, and James Allen 1834. The last 5 were christened in Cubbington; Samuel 1836-1844, Joseph Henry 1839-1839, Henry 1842-1842, Mary Ann 1844-1844, and Hannah Keziah 1846-1846. The family was living in Cubbington when the 1841 census was taken. Keziah died on 8 December 1848 and was buried in Weston Under Wetherley on the 11th(age 40). Her "abode" at the time was Weston. William died 3 years earlier on 20 August 1845 and was buried on the 24th in Cubbington(age 42). His "abode" at the time was Cubbington. I assume that since Kezia returned to Weston, she either had family there, or was a pauper and was forced to return. This is all the information I can find on her. A James Woodward that lived in Cubbington was buried in Cubbington on 16 January 1845 (age 45). I suspect he was Kezia's brother. I wasn't able to find him in the 1841 census though. Just wondering if there are are any other resources or things to check to see if we can find her. Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Hi,
You seem to have gathered just about everything you can apart for a baptism record. Kezia appears in 23 public trees on Ancestry and non of them have managed to discover where she was born. However, some of them cite a baptism in Rutland / Northamptonshire:
Keziah Woodward, 19 Jun 1808, Bisbrooke, Daughter of William Woodward and Mary.
Certainly there does not appear to be a baptism in Warwickshire so I suggest you have a go at this possibility and see if it yields anything.
HTH
Peter
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That may be her Christening;
1851 Census has a WILLIAM Westward born c 1805, Bisbrook, Rutland, living in Wolfhampcote, Warwickshire.
Wife Jane, Children;
Mary 14, Isaac 12, Emily 10, Charles 7, James 4, Hannah 3
They are there in 1841 also;
1841 Census
HO1071138/23/Wolfhamcote
William Woodward, 35. Ag Lab
Jane Woodward, 30
Emanwell Woodward, 12
Mark Woodward, 10
Ester Woodward, 7
Mary Woodward, 5
Isaih Woodward, 2
Emma Woodward, 2 Mths
All down as born in County which we know as not true for William from 1851 Census.
1871 he is born c 1803 Bisbrooke
Possible Marriage
William WOODWARD to Jane RATT
3 February 1824, Preston, Rutland
Although I cant find a Christening
WILLIAM/MARY Christened Bisbrooke;
KEZIAH 19 June 1808
JAMES. 10 or 30 March 1800 (F/S has both dates)
ESTHER, 2 June 1811
Trish :)
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Hi
Marriage Bisbrooke
William woodward and Mary Allin 15.11.1793
Richard Allin and Frances Williams 15.11.1793
Daughter Hannah 20.11.1794
Lucy 14.10.1797
James 30.3.1800
Kerzia 19.6.1808
Esther 2.6.1811
Ciderdrinker
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In researching this, I will need to know if the James Woodward that died 1st quarter 1845 in Oakham, Rutlandshire Volume 15 Page 559 Line 3 is the James in this family, as the James in Warwickshire was buried 16 January 1845 in Cubbington(age 45). The registration in Warwick, Warwickshire, England is Volume 16 Page 467 Line 4 Is it possible to get additional information for the Oakham death, maybe an age or a burial record from the parish?
The other scenario is that the James that died in Cubbington is not Kezia's brother and this one is.
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The James Woodward in Rutland was buried at Empingham 12 Jan 1845 aged 44.
The other two children baptised to William & Mary in Bisbrook are:
22 Dec 1802 Mary
12 Oct 1805 William
Noting the marriages in Bisbrooke given by Ciderdrinker, there are also these baptisms:
30 Mar 1769 Richard Allyn s/o John & Mary
05 Jan 1773 Mary Allen d/o John & Mary
25 Mar 1782 Keziah Allen d/o John & Mary
So presumably Keziah Woodward was named after Keziah Allen, her mother's youngest sister.
Other children baptised to the same couple were
John Allen 5 Jan 1768
Henry Allen 6 Aug 1775
Ann Allen 12 Sep 1777
William Allen 3 July 1780
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A James Woodward that lived in Cubbington was buried in Cubbington on 16 January 1845 (age 45). I suspect he was Kezia's brother. I wasn't able to find him in the 1841 census though.
The James Woodward in Rutland was buried at Empingham 12 Jan 1845 aged 44.
Just to complicate things, the James Woodward who died in Empingham, Rutland is on the 1841 census as not born in county :-\ It looks like he married Esther Kitchen 17 Sep 1827 in Empingham - both OTP
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I have found information on Hannah, who married Charles Naylor. They had 7 children. She died in 1870 and the death was registered in Uppingham, Rutlandshire.
I can't find anything on Lucy; Christened 14 October 1797 Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire, England.
Plenty of information on James, who married Esther Kitchen. They had 7 or 8 children. I'm confused by Thomas and Ann christened 25 August 1830 in Empingham, Rutlandshire, because I can't find anything on Ann. I can't help but wonder if there were two transcribers who transcribed different information from the same record. After James died, Esther married a John Woodward, so perhaps we have the wrong James. Esther and her children were visitors in John's home, so I suspect John is related in some way.
I can't find anything on Keziah.
Esther married a John Rate/Ratt, they had 2 children. She died on 27 May 1837 and was buried in Preston, Rutland Unitary Authority.
I cannot find the christening records for either William or Mary. Jomot, where did you find them? If William is her brother, that puts him in Wolfhampcote, Warwickshire; less than 10 miles from Weston Under Wetherley.
The records are found in both Church of England and Non-conformist records. After researching this family, we really don't have any way of knowing if this is her or not.
One thing I noticed was that some of the records say Rutland, Northamptonshire. I'm not sure what that would mean.
My other concern is the distance. Bisbrooke is about 48 miles from Weston Under Wetherley. Is there any reason she would travel so far?
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I cannot find the christening records for either William or Mary. Jomot, where did you find them?
I have a CD of Rutland Parish Registers and they were listed on that.
One thing I noticed was that some of the records say Rutland, Northamptonshire. I'm not sure what that would mean.
Rutland was in the Diocese of Peterborough, and Peterborough used to be in Northamptonshire. A lot of the Rutland documents (wills, marriage licences etc) are therefore held at the Northamptonshire records office.
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I'm confused by Thomas and Ann christened 25 August 1830 in Empingham, Rutlandshire, because I can't find anything on Ann.
Ann Kitchen Woodward, Infant was buried at Empingham 29 Feb 1831
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Thanks Jomot! Are you able to share all the information from the records on your CD or are they copy written? I assume the burial record for Ann was also on your CD.
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After James died, Esther married a John Woodward, so perhaps we have the wrong James. Esther and her children were visitors in John's home, so I suspect John is related in some way.
In the 1851 census John is born c1801, Whitwell, Rutland, so this looks like his baptism:
4 May 1800 John s/o John & Elizabeth
Baptised at Whitwell to same the parents:
6 Apr 1802 - Adam
9 Jul 1805 - Eliza
27 Mar 1808 - George
24 Sep 1809 - Wm
25 Nov 1810 - Jane
19 Jun 1812 - Anne
I wondered if Jane has been wrongly transcribed & should be James, but looking at the image it clearly says Jane, daughter of ???
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Jomot, do you think Esther christened 10 April 1814 in Uppingham, Rutlandshire is also John and Elizabeth's? If so, can you find any other children there?
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My apologies, it looks like the baptisms continued onto another disk. These are all Whitwell, children of John, a shoemaker, and Elizabeth
9 Feb 1813 Thomas - buried 13 Feb 1813
10 Apr 1814 Esther
24 Dec 1815 Mary Anne - buried 22 Mar 1816
23 Feb 1817 Sophia
20 Sep 1818 David - buried 20 Nov 1818
Also buried at Whitwell:
20 Aug 1802 Adam s/o John & Elizabeth
2 Sep 1815 Anne aged 4, d/o John & Elizabeth
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Hi
Marriage Bisbrooke
William woodward and Mary Allin 15.11.1793
Richard Allin and Frances Williams 15.11.1793
Daughter Hannah 20.11.1794
Lucy 14.10.1797
James 30.3.1800
Kerzia 19.6.1808
Esther 2.6.1811
Is Richard Allin and Frances Williams another Marriage that same day? Does the record document the fathers?
Ciderdrinker
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Hi,
You seem to have gathered just about everything you can apart for a baptism record. Kezia appears in 23 public trees on Ancestry and non of them have managed to discover where she was born. However, some of them cite a baptism in Rutland / Northamptonshire:
Keziah Woodward, 19 Jun 1808, Bisbrooke, Daughter of William Woodward and Mary.
Certainly there does not appear to be a baptism in Warwickshire so I suggest you have a go at this possibility and see if it yields anything. The probable reason for this is that I explored this family in 2013 on Ancestry using a working tree. I realized people were taking the information as fact, so I changed it to a private tree, back then, I ruled the family out because the only circumstantial evidence to suggest it was her was the fact that they used Allen as a middle name. Now that we know about William, who was in Hellidon, Northamptonshire and Flecknoe, Warwickshire - both approximately 10 miles away, I am confident this could be her.
HTH
Peter
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Is Richard Allin and Frances Williams another Marriage that same day? Does the record document the fathers?
18 Nov 1873 William Woodward & Mary Allen* were No. 197 in the register
19 Nov 1873 Richard Allen* & Francis Williams were No. 198
Both marriages were the same day. The only additional info is that all 4 were OTP and both marriages followed Banns
* Spelling & dates per transcript
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That may be her Christening;
Possible Marriage
William WOODWARD to Jane RATT
3 February 1824, Preston, Rutland
Trish :)
I need to explore this because the William and Jane that married in Northamptonshire have children prior to marriage. The first is Emannual, born in 1829, Warwickshire, according to the census. Jane Ratt would have died between 1834 and 1837.
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Noting the marriages in Bisbrooke given by Ciderdrinker, there are also these baptisms:
30 Mar 1769 Richard Allyn s/o John & Mary
05 Jan 1773 Mary Allen d/o John & Mary
25 Mar 1782 Keziah Allen d/o John & Mary
Does anyone have information on a marriage for John & Mary, that might perhaps give us additional information?
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5 Jan 1767, Bisbrook, John Allen & Mary Green, both OTP, after Banns
Possible Marriage
William WOODWARD to Jane RATT
3 February 1824, Preston, Rutland
I have this as JOHN Woodward of Easton, Northamptonshire to Jane Ratt OTP. I can find no children baptised in Rutland to this couple
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Children of Henry and Elizabeth Allen - I could use a marriage date and place.
Henry christened 18 May 1745 in Uppingham,Rutlandshire and supposedly died in 1755. I need verification for the death or burial. Mary christened 25 October 1746 in Uppingham, Rutlandshire and supposedly died in 1756. I found this burial, 18 August 1756 in England. Is this possibly her? John christened 29 April 1748 in Uppingham, Rutlandshire, wife Mary. Two opinions on John, 1758 or 1783 Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire. Supposedly Mary was buried on 25 May 1820 Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire. William christened 15 August 1749 Uppingham, Rutlandshire and supposedly died in 1759. Catherine christened 15 March 1750 Uppingham, Rutlandshire. I'm wondering if there's a burial or marriage record. Susannah christened 30 November 1752 Uppingham, Rutlandshire and supposdedly died in 1762. i found a burial date of 17 February 1762, but like the other it doesn't say where. Do your records go back far enough to check these out? It just seems odd that most of the children died around the age of 10. Thanks again for all your help!!!!
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Sorry, I found your message a bit difficult to read with no breaks in it so I hope I have understood it correctly. Also, the transcripts are over four disks covering the whole of Rutland, with separate files within each for baptisms, marriages & burials, so there is an awful lot of information for the surname Allen & variations. Anyway, here's what I've found:
Henry christened 18 May 1745 in Uppingham,Rutlandshire. Didn't find a 1755 burial. Possible marriage at Uppingham 28 Dec 1769 (as Allin) to Elizabeth Harding by Licence, both OTP. However, there was also a Henry Allen who married Bridgett Miller in 1755, Uppingham, also by Licence, so this could possibly be a second marriage, although I haven't found a burial for Bridgett so possibly not. Burial for Henry Allin aged 45 on 11 Feb 1790, Uppingham.
Mary christened 25 October 1746 in Uppingham, Rutlandshire. No trace of a 1756 burial. Possible marriage at Uppingham 25 Aug 1768 to John West, a Cooper. Both OTP, by Licence.
John christened 29 April 1748. I'm not sure what you're after here? If he was definitely married to a Mary then there are two possibilities: 5 Jan 1767 at Bisbrook to Mary Green after Banns, both OTP, or Nov 1768 at Lyddington to Mary Sumpter of Thorp/Seaton, by Licence. There are burials for both couples in both parishes.
William christened 15 August 1749. Didn't find a 1759 burial. Possible marriage 30 Oct 1775 at Belton to Mary Cotton of Houghton, Leicestershire, by Licence.
Catherine christened 15 March 1750. Transcribed as Catharina. No other information found so I will check the disks again later.
Susannah christened 30 November 1752. Didn't find a 1762 burial or a likely marriage (one in 1771 in Great Casterton looks like a different Susannah). Will check again later.
Haven't found a marriage for Henry & Elizabeth yet, but this looks like their burials:
23 Jan 1754 at Uppingham – Elizabeth wife of Henry (no age given)
28 May 1767 at Uppingham – Henry aged 67. Died of Smallpox.
If Henry was born c1700 and Henry 1745 was his first child, then he seems to have married late?
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Married 18 Jun 1744 at Ufford, Northamptonshire, Henry Allen of Uppingham in the County of Rutland & Elizabeth Stimpson of Ufford.
If Elizabeth died in 1754, the marriage to Bridgett Miller in 1755 could be this Henry.
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I'm sorry my last post was such a mess, I was having computer problems. I am also sorry because I seem to be having trouble with the quote feature. I think I accidentally deleted the programming to end the quote.
John christened 29 April 1748. I'm not sure what you're after here? If he was definitely married to a Mary then there are two possibilities: 5 Jan 1767 at Bisbrook to Mary Green after Banns, both OTP, or Nov 1768 at Lyddington to Mary Sumpter of Thorp/Seaton, by Licence. There are burials for both couples in both parishes.
I'm sorry, I just wanted possible burial information.
I have him matched up with Mary Green and since there's burials in both parishes, this is likely the correct couple. Do you mind sharing the burial dates for John and Mary in Bisbrooke? I am assuming Uppingham is the same place.
I want to tell you again how much I appreciate your help. I am a little overwhelmed right now because our family has been looking for so long and if this is my GGGrandmother, and I think this is, there's so much more information.
The family we're working on now is several generations beyond her. I always like to work on generations back and forward to see if I can gain more insight.
One more thing, Can I sight your disks as a source? Do you still have the name and address of the agency you aquired them from? Do you have a citation I could use? If I've been told correctly, these disks are no longer available for purchase.
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If Henry was born c1700 and Henry 1745 was his first child, then he seems to have married late?
I can't see any other possibilities, but do you think that Elizabeth may have been his 2nd marriage and Bridgett his 3rd?
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I was thinking about this, and the Henry buried 1767 is possibly a different Henry. There was a Henry baptised in Oakham 9 Mar 1724/5, s/o Joseph & Mary who could be a candidate for marrying Elizabeth & Bridgett, but I'd need to look into that further.
It seems odd that I can find no burial or re-marriage for Bridgett, and nothing on Catharina & Susannah who would have been just toddlers when Elizabeth died. Did they perhaps move away?
I'm also not sure about John Allen & Mary Green. If the other marriages are correct then most of them are by licence rather than after banns. You also mentioned you had found non-conformist records, which often fits with marriages by licence. Why are you so sure he married a Mary?
Personally I'd be investing in copies of the marriage licences - if you email Northamptonshire Archives with the names, dates & parish they will reply with the reference numbers & a quote. Standard service says around 10 days but its much quicker.
The discs are available from Leicestershire & Rutland Family History Society. I have the complication DVD which has four volumes of registers: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01fek/
I'll look around a bit more to see what I can find for the Henry born in Oakham & the various possibilities for John, but maybe finding Bridgett, Susannah & Catharina will help firm things up better.
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Scrap the question about why you are sure that John married a Mary - they are Kezia's parents.
Various possibilities for their burials - all Bisbrooke:
29 Nov 1783 John Allin
13 Dec 1783 Mary Allin
28 Oct 1802 Mary Allen
26 May 1820 Mary Allin aged 76
As to the Henry Allen baptised Oakham 9 Mar 1724/5, his parents were Joseph & Mary & it looks like his father may have died shortly afterwards as there is a Joseph Allen buried Oakham 8 Nov 1725.
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I was thinking about this, and the Henry buried 1767 is possibly a different Henry. There was a Henry baptised in Oakham 9 Mar 1724/5, s/o Joseph & Mary who could be a candidate for marrying Elizabeth & Bridgett, but I'd need to look into that further.
It seems odd that I can find no burial or re-marriage for Bridgett, and nothing on Catharina & Susannah who would have been just toddlers when Elizabeth died. Did they perhaps move away?
I'll look around a bit more to see what I can find for the Henry born in Oakham & the various possibilities for John, but maybe finding Bridgett, Susannah & Catharina will help firm things up better.
Given the christening dates of the children, this is the likely Henry. Moving away is a good possibility as we don't have death dates for either, assuming the 1800-1867 Henry isn't correct.
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However, there was also a Henry Allen who married Bridgett Miller in 1755, Uppingham, also by Licence, so this could possibly be a second marriage, although
Did this marriage happen to say what parish Bridgett Miller was from?
I can't find any births for the couple Henry and Bridgett anywhere in England. If they moved, they may have immigrated.
Bridgett could have been 40+ at the time of this marriage, so it's possible this was also her 2nd marriage.
It's probably more likely the 2nd marriage of Henry 1800 - 1867 than our Henry.
When Elizabeth died, she left 6 children under the age of 10. If Henry didn't remarry, it's likely the children were "farmed" out or "paupers". Is it possible whoever took them in claimed them as their own? This would explain why we didn't find any of the burial records there.
I have sent a message to the two people that have created family possession sources for this family in the hopes that they'll be able to provide more insight.
Thanks again for all you've done and are continuing to do.
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Ok, you've all been wonderful and have provided a wealth of information. I'm not sure which discs to purchase yet, so if you could provide a bit more guidance there. I think I'd like baptism, marriage and burial records for Brisbrook and Uppingham. Are they the same place?
Let's focus on Keziah Woodward, her parents, and her siblings. We have a burial date for Mary Ann Woodward 22 Mar 1816 in Uppingham, Rutlandshire. We also have a christening date that puts her at the correct age of death.
We do not have a burial or christening for John Woodward, married 19 Nov 1793 in Bisbrooke,Rutland. So let's start with him. I'm wondering if he died shortly before or after Mary Ann. This would leave the children orphans.
Would I be able to find more information about the family in Poor House records? Perhaps the children became servants. Perhaps they were taken in by family members. Perhaps they received charity contributions. Perhaps they were beneficiaries of someone will. Does anyone have any ideas to help here? Thanks again for all you've done!!
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Sorry, I must have missed your previous message. Bridget & Henry were both from Uppingham at the time of marriage.
A lot of the Bishops Transcripts for Rutland are on Ancestry under Northamptonshire Baptisms, Marriages & Burials (Rutland was in the Diocese of Peterborough, which used to be in Northamptonshire). Alternatively Leicestershire & Rutland FHS 4 CD set of Rutland Parish Registers is an excellent investment & is now available as a download.
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After getting access to the disc's at the library and copying Woodwards and Allens from Bisbrooke and Uppingham, here is something I didn't get:
A marriage record for John Allen and Sarah - probably between 1791 and 1796. Sarah Norton Marriage: 13 February 1800 in Market Bosworth, Leicester is not the correct marriage, as this couple was having children in Leicester during the same time period. I don't know Sarah's maiden name, but according to the 1841 census, she was born between 1772 and 1776 and died between 1841 and 1851, as John is reported a widower in the 1851 census. There are two possible deaths registered for her in 1845. Do you mind looking to see if you can find this marriage? And, if the records you have available include 1845 deaths, will you please check to see if either could be her.
One more thing, I found burial records for John Allen 29 November 1783, Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire, and Mary Allen, 13 December 1783, Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire. Neither record has an age or relative. I wonder if it's possible these two who were buried less than a month a part, a few months after the birth of their youngest child could be my family. Does the disc include bishop transcripts, or is possible we can learn more about these burials some other way?
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Different disc, but this looks like the marriage you're after:
6 Apr 1795 at Tugby, John Allen of Bisbrook, Rutland & Sarah Marston otp.
I cant find anything further on the burials I'm afraid. I believe the information is taken directly from the Parish Registers so will include all information that was written.
Added: A possible for Sarah's burial is 8 Dec 1850 at Bisbrooke, aged 76. This is from an index only so doesn't include any additional information such as 'wife of' but the age certainly fits with your timeline.
Added: Found the burial on ANC - no further information Im afraid, but the next burial was for Charles Allen / Allin, aged 13, buried 2 Jan 1851.
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Thanks again, for all your help, we'll let this sit for a bit. I'm still working on it, but not right now.
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Hi, I am the 2 x gt. Grand-daughter of Kezia and William Steele via her son James Allen Steele, born Cubbington and his daughter Elizabeth (Lizzie Ann). I do have quite a bit of information about this family if you are still working on it. Before writing more will wait to see if you would like to see it.
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LynBow,
Keziah and William Steel are my 3x great grand parents, via their daughter Sarah, her daughter Annie Keziah Thacker, and her daughter Hilda Jane Armstrong I would love to learn as much about the family as I can, and I'd also like to learn more about you and your family.
Thanks for the reply!
Becky
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LynBow
I have that James Allen was married 3x. First to Sophia Spittle (1826-1861) married 13 Jul 1857
Dudley, Staffordshire. I am not aware of any children, but assume there may have been a couple. Next to Eliza Fulford (1840-1871) married 26 Jun 1864 St. James, Eve Hill, Dudley, Worcester. Once again, no known children, but assume there were some. Final marriage is unknown, I assume you have that information. Children from this marriage are Samuel Steel b 1872 Worcester, Worcestershire; Sarah J Steel b 1875 North Ormesby, Yorkshire, England and Elizabeth A Steel b 1877 North Ormesby, Yorkshire, England. I assume she's Lizzie Ann. I have that Samuel married Maria Louisa (?) and I have 5 children born to them, of which I don't have a name for one son. I don't have any other information on any of the other children. I don't even know when or where James Allen died. Is any of this correct?
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First, I want to thank you all, as this has provided me with a lot of useful information.
Henry Allen/Allin and Elizabeth Stimpson/Stimson are my 6th great grandparents
1. Janet is the daughter of Freda Elizabeth (Pilcher) Gunn
2. Freda is the daughter of Wilda Emily (Brown) Pilcher
3. Wilda is the daughter of Fred Brown
4. Fred is the son of Hannah (Naylor) Welsh
5. Hannah is the daughter of Hannah (Woodward) Nailor
6. Hannah is the daughter of Mary (Allin) Woodward
7. Mary is the daughter of William Allin
8. William is the son of Henry Allin
Second, I have a source for some additional information
http://www.uppinghamhistory.org.uk/copyholders/copyholderspt-1d.pdf is the
Index of Copyholders Part One The Manor of Preston with Uppingham . (There is a lot of other useful information on the UppinghamHistory site)
On pg 37 and 38 it has
Henry Allin held copyhold property in Uppingham:
(a) Butlers Cottage; 14 Orange St
(b) Cottage or barn called Hillams Cottage; and Bear Yard
(c) Bear Yard lying on N side of Butlers Cottage.
In 1744, on his marriage to Elizabeth Stimson, he transferred the ownership of the property to himself and his wife.
In 1767, presumably on his death, his son and heir, another Henry Allin/Allen, and his wife, another Elizabeth, took possession of these properties.
In 1790, this younger Henry died intestate, and the properties passed to his surviving wife, Elizabeth, and his only son, William
In 1822, this Elizabeth Allen died.
This indicates that the Henry Allin married to Elizabeth Stimson in 1744 is the same Henry Allin that died in 1767.
If there WAS another marriage, to Bridgett, after Elizabeth died, she was not added to the copyhold.
According to the parish records on Find My Past, there was an Elizabeth Stimson (daughter of John and Susannah) born in Oakham in 1722 (and an earlier Elizabeth born to the same parents in 1720. I can't find her burial, but I presume she died before 1722).
Why she was in Ufford in 1744 remains a mystery (I can find no plausible Elizabeth Stim(p)son born anywhere near Ufford)
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John Allen 1748–1783 m Mary Green 1743–1783 on 5 January 1767 Bisbrooke,Rutland,England
I have Mary as their daughter, not William's. c 5 January 1773 Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire, England
William Allen 1749–Deceased m Mary Cotton on 30 October 1775 Belton, Rutlandshire, England
Their Mary was c on 18 DEC 1775 Uppingham,Rutland,England
Do you have sources that would indicate otherwise?
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For Mary, I have
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NYHK-FBV
Name: Mary Allin
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Dec 1775
Baptism/Christening Place: UPPINGHAM,RUTLAND,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Allin
Mother's Name: Mary
But I think your Mary, daughter of John and Mary, 1773 in Bisbrooke is probably correct , since the marriage was also in Bisbrooke. Thanks.
For William (1749 - 1837) and Mary I have
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NV38-94S
Groom's Name: William Allin
Bride's Name: Mary Pomerede
Marriage Date: 26 Sep 1771
Marriage Place: Uppingham,Rutland,England
Which I think is more likely, since he was born and died in Uppingham, and since the spelling is Allin rather than Allen in the Belton marriage.
Also, William Allin and Mary in Uppingham had sons John, bapt 10 May 1773, and "Wm", bapt 26 May 1774, which is more consistent with the 1771 marriage.
But your 1775 marriage in Belton to Mary Cotton is also possible.
I have his death (from Find My Past) as
Rutland burials Transcription
First name(s) William
Last name Allen
Age 88
Birth year 1749
Death year 1837
Burial year 1837
Burial date 27 Sep 1837
Burial place Uppingham
Denomination Anglican
County Rutland
Country England
Archive Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland
Archive reference DE1784/10
Thanks
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Jomot,
Do you mind checking to see if you have any additional information for this marriage?
William Allin and Mary Pomerede, 26 Sep 1771 Uppingham,Rutland,England
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John's christening 10 May 1773 only lists William as the father, there isn't a mother listed. Jomot, do you mind looking to see if you can find additional information on this christening? Janet, are you certain the John is the son of William and Mary Pomerede?
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For Mary, I have
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NYHK-FBV
Name: Mary Allin
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Dec 1775
Baptism/Christening Place: UPPINGHAM,RUTLAND,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Allin
Mother's Name: Mary
This is the same christening record I have for the daughter of William and Mary Cotton. Jomot, can you research this marriage again?
William Allen to Mary Cotton Marriage: 30 October 1775
Belton, Rutlandshire, England
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Sorry for the delayed reply, I've had a few IT issues. The records are now online so there's a lot more detail:
26 Sep 1771 Uppingham
William Allin of the Parish of Uppingham, Jersey Comber
Mary Pomerede of the same Parish, Spinster
Married by Licence
Both signed, but Mary signed as Pomrade
Witnesses: John West & John Bennett
10 May 1773 Uppingham
John son of John William Allin a Jersey Comber and Mary his wife.
The crossing out of the name John was on the original register.
13 Oct 1775 Belton
William Allen of this Parish
Mary Cotton of the Parish of Houghton in Leicestershire
Married by Licence
William signed but as William Allin, Mary made her mark
Witnesses: John & Moses Cotton, both signed X
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That agrees with what I have.
Thanks
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Another source-
This thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=518305.0
has
All Uppingham Parish
William Allin bapt. 15 August 1749 parents Henry and Elizabeth. He had a number of siblings including:
Henry Allin bapt 18 May 1745
Henry Allin married Elizabeth Harding on 28 December 1769. They had several children.
William Allin married Mary Pomerede on 26 September 1771
children
John Allin bapt. 10 May 1773 father William
William bapt. 26 May 1774 parents William and Mary
Mary bapt. 18 December 1775 parents William and Mary
Susanna bapt. 17 November 1777 parents William and Mary
Henry bapt. 5 June 1779 parents William and Mary
Benjamin bapt. 26 January 1786 parents William and Mary
Joseph bapt. 29 October 1788 parents William and Mary
from Crowboy
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Another piece to the puzzle.
In Belton, Mary Allin, daughter of William and Mary, was baptised 25 Nov 1777.
Rutland baptisms Transcription
First name(s) Mary
Last name Allin
Birth year 1777
Baptism year 1777
Baptism date 25 Nov 1777
Baptism place Belton
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) William
Mother's first name(s) Mary
County Rutland
Country England
Archive Record Office for Leicestershire, Leicester & Rutland
Archive reference DE1785/4
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Can anyone find out more about this death. I'm wondering if there's an age and parents listed.
Thanks!!
Name: Mary Allin
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 25 May 1820
Burial Place: Bisbrook, Rutland, England
FHL Film Number: 1999555
Reference ID: item 4 n 25
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Looking at the image
No 25
Name - Mary Allen (not clear if it is an "e" or an "i". but looks more like an "e")
Abode - Bisbrook
When buried - 1820 May 26th
Age - 76
By whom the ceremony was performed - S T? Bloomfield
I expect this is Mary (Green) Allin, and that the 1783 death is someone else.
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Have you found anything on Mary (Allin) and William Woodward?
I was exploring the idea that the rest of the family went (returned?) to Warwickshire after Hannah's marraige in 1824.
I found an 1836 burial of a Mary Woodward, age 62, in Wolfhampcote, Warwickshire.
I also found an 1841 census listing for William Woodward, (nominally) age 70, in Flecknor, Wolfhampcote, Rugby, Warwickshire, England, born Warwickshire, and a subsequent death (Rugby registration district) in 1843.
Do you think that might be them?
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I believe John died shortly after Mary, assuming she died in 1783. I have his death as 29 November 1783 Bisbrooke, Rutlandshire, England. However, I don't have actual records, just an index. Why do you think the 1783 death is someone else?
Kezia Woodward Steel and possibly her brother James Woodward are the only two children found near Cubbington. I believe Mary's Allin Woodward's burial was 22 Mar 1816 Uppingham, Rutlandshire, England. Once again, only going from an index. If you read the post before, you'll see I was mistaken and mixed families. Her youngest child would have been 6 at the time of her death. The oldest and youngest child are found in Uppington. William is found in Flecknoe, however, it isn't clear if he's really Kezia's brother as the naming pattern is way off. The 1843 death can't be his as he's found up until the 1881 Census.
I do have the elder William Woodward attached to the census you mention, but didn't have the death date. It makes sense that he was living near his son, if the younger William is his son. We should probably flip pages and see how close they are to each other in the census.
I cannot find any of the other children. I wonder if the children became a burden on the parish and were farmed out to relatives or as servants. However, I have no idea how to search the poorhouse records to see if the children or William was there. In the 1841 census William is listed as a Ag laborer, but we don't know if that was his occupation or just due to his age. Perhaps a view at the actual marriage record, or the children's christening records would give us more insight, especially if they list an occupation.
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Henry Allen/Allin and Elizabeth Stimpson/Stimson are my 6th great grandparents
1. Janet is the daughter of Freda Elizabeth (Pilcher) Gunn
2. Freda is the daughter of Wilda Emily (Brown) Pilcher
3. Wilda is the daughter of Fred Brown
4. Fred is the son of Hannah (Naylor) Welsh
5. Hannah is the daughter of Hannah (Woodward) Nailor
6. Hannah is the daughter of Mary (Allin) Woodward
7. Mary is the daughter of William Allin
8. William is the son of Henry Allin
Henry Allin and Elizabeth Stimpson are my 5x great grandparents:
1. Becky is the daughter of Beth Jordan and Garth Porter
2. Beth is the daughter of Hilda Jane Armstrong and Alfred Edwin Jordan
3. Hilda Jane is the daughter of Anna Keziah Thacker and Robert Armstrong
4. Anna Keziah is the daughter of Sarah Steel and Richard Thacker
5. Sarah is the daughter of Kezia Woodward and William Steel
6. Kezia is the daughter of Mary Allin and William Woodward
6. Mary is the daughter of John Allin and Mary Green
7. John Allin is the son of Henry Allin and Elizabeth Stimpson
8. Henry Allin is likely the son of Joseph Allin and Mary
LynBow I would love to have any information you have.
Thanks!
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One more possibility I have been unable to follow is that there was a Woodward clergy or something near Cubbington and Kezia may not belong to this family at all, she may be the daughter of a religious leader.
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Do you think this could be something different than Lucy?
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Can anyone tell me more about this death?
Mary Woodward 12 Mar 1855 Uppingham, Ruttland, England
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I don't think you've posted the correct link.
The burial on 12 Mar 1855 was at Whitwell:
Mary Woodward of Whitwell, aged 56
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The link was Lucy's baptism. The death is correct. A different family that keeps getting merged into ours in familysearch. Just trying to help them find the correct information. Thank-you so much!
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The link was Lucy's baptism.
It doesn't lead anywhere though!
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Sorry, probably cause it's subscription
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Sorry, probably cause it's subscription
I have subs to the main sites plus a few others but its not formatted as a normal link & looks like the first part is missing - have you double-checked it?