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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: Annies85hotmail.com on Saturday 19 March 16 03:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm new to roots chat. I'm searching for Craggan?? in Kincardine parish, county of Ross. (hard to decipher on marriage document). Thinking it was an estate, but can find no reference to it.
William Graham resided there in1862 when he married Grace Ross. can anyone help me locate it plse? They were married at Rosehall ( Free Church) I think & if anyone can tell me where to find photos etc that would be wonderful.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Looking at your relative in the census after he married I think he is described as a shepherd and therefore may have been working in a farmstead
I did find this reference to Craggan, a farmstead to the east of Kincardine, however it is in Edderton Parish http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/record/rcahms/13856/craggan/rcahms?inline=true#map-wrapper
This is more detailed map on the National Library of Scotlands map images http://maps.nls.uk/view/74428351#zoom=5&lat=3041&lon=13366&layers=BT
Good luck Kay
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Annie, welcome from me too :)
www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-003-053-141-C .....I know, not much to see, but there it is from the air ;)
Monica
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Hi, I'm very new to Roots. I am researching my great -grandfathers history.
William Graham baptised 23/1/1827. Father Thomas, M Grizzel McLeod Parish Alness 057 Ref 20/34 (SP).
If someone can help me locate the church, I would appreciate it so much! I'd love to visit it(or the grounds) when I visit Scotland later this year.
Also, his 1862 marriage certificate to Grace Ross shows him residing in Craggan ???????can anyone help with locating that please????
Many thanks. Annie
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Welcome to Rootschat Annie.
Craggan is in Morayshire Scotland :)
Alness is in Ross and Cromarty and there is a ruined parish church there and a photo of the
churchyard at rosscromartyroots.co.uk (http://rosscromartyroots.co.uk)
Do you have William Graham and Grace in any of the census?
Joy
Added I see that there is a Craggan in Kincardine Ross and Cromarty. After reading your previous post I think that is the one referred to in the marriage cert.
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Hi Annie
In case you don't have the details of the 1871 census here it is
Address Dalfaid Sutherland
William Graham head 41 b Kincardine Rossshire Shepherd
Grace wife 40 b " "
Thomas son 7 b Assynt Sutherland Scholar
Georgina daughter 4 b Kincardine Rossshire
Jannet Ross Mother-in-law 84 b Creich Sutherland
Margaret Wilson Servant 19 b Rogart Sutherland
ED2 schedule 12
Roll CSSCT1871_9
Joy
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Thank you for that clue. I'm still looking for info on Thomas Graham and Grizzel Mcleod....keep getting distracted! ??? I have only found a marriage entry in Oct 1819 and the birth of a son John in same year,with little other detail. Can anyone suggest a way of looking for their parents names and siblings etc. please? ???
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1841 Census
Thomas Graham, age 40 and Grace Mcleod, age 35 - address Corrimuillick (?), Kincardine (Ross), Ross and Cromarty.
The '41 Census doesn't identify relationships but there are 8 Grahams in the age range 3 - 18 (but no John) and an Elizabeth Graham, age 80.
The Census record is a transcription only - original image not available. Trying to work out what/where is "Corrimuillick (?)".
On the '51 Census Thomas is aged 57, occpn. shepherd and Grace, age 50 - address is Craggan, Kincardie, Ross and Cromarty - with 8 children.
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On the 1861 Census Grace Grahame, age 63, is a widow, born Lochbroom,Ross and Cromarty.
Address still Craggan with 5 children, including William, unmarried, age 32, shepherd.
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Good morning,
This is the parish church, Alness. Certainly not a ruin.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kb4/
John915
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Welcome from me as well :)
The Census record is a transcription only - original image not available. Trying to work out what/where is "Corrimuillick (?)".
I suspect sight of the original on ScotlandsPeople [a pay site, Annie in case you did not know] is the only way of knowing...
ADDED: Is this the old Alness church
http://www.buildingsatrisk.org.uk/details/899019
Note
4 October 2013: External inspection finds the building remains in much the same condition as seen previously. Security fencing is in place and dangerous building notices posted. The building is engulfed in ivy.
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The Census record is a transcription only - original image not available. Trying to work out what/where is "Corrimuillick (?)".
SP Entry
GRAHAM THOMAS
1841
40
071/ 6/ 1
Kincardine (Ross) and Croick
Ross and Cromarty
There are no images of any Scottish census records online (unless someone has uploaded any to sites), they have to be purchased at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Annie
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It looks likely that William Graham would have been baptised in the Old Alness Church in 1827.
I only had a quick look, but I couldn't find a date of construction for the new church.
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A good site for memorial inscriptions,
https://sites.google.com/site/highlandmemorialinscriptions/home
In addition to the Alness kirkyard there is a ruined chapel/burial ground at Nonikiln north of Alness kirk.
Skoosh.
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An excellent resource, thanks for posting it Skoosh. :)
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The nearest I can find to the 1841 address is Corriemoillie,approx. postcode IV23 2PY,just above/right of the capital "N" on this map:-
http://maps.nls.uk/view/76343818
Regards
Roger
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The Census record is a transcription only - original image not available. Trying to work out what/where is "Corrimuillick (?)".
SP Entry
GRAHAM THOMAS
1841
40
071/ 6/ 1
Kincardine (Ross) and Croick
Ross and Cromarty
There are no images of any Scottish census records online (unless someone has uploaded any to sites), they have to be purchased at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Annie
Well aware of non availability of original images of Scottish Census records other than via scotlands.people.
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Craggan is in Morayshire Scotland :)
There are lots of places all over Scotland called Craggan, and some in Ireland too. See http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=73078697&page=1 for photographs of some of them.
One that springs to mind is Craggan in the present local authority area of Moray. However this is in fact in the (historical) county of Banff, also known as Banffshire. This is it on an old map http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.3730&lon=-3.3541&layers=5&b=1
As the 1862 marriage was registered in Kincardine and Croick, County of Ross and Cromarty, the Craggan referred to must indeed be the one in the parish of Kincardine in that county, because if it had been in a different parish it would have said so. (There are also Kincardines in other counties, as well as a county of Kincardine.)
One thing to bear in mind is that baptisms did not necessarily take place in the church itself. It was not unusual for a baptism ceremony to be performed in the parents' home.
This http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1234671 says that the new Alness parish church was built in 1843. There are other photographs of both the old and the new church here http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=73078974
The Corriemoillie found by Roger can't be the right one because it is in the parish of Contin, which is separated by a range of mountains from the parish of Kincardine.
However I see from the transcription of the 1841 census at https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl that the family were at Corrimuillie, and the other places listed in the same enumeration district were Corimore, Drumvaich, Luibconich and Croick Manse, which is on the mid-Victorian six-inch map at http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.8856&lon=-4.6057&layers=6&b=1.
This raises the fascinating possibility that the family attended Croick Church rather than going all the way to the Parish Church. See http://www.croickchurch.com/index.htm and http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH4591
I cannot identify all of these places on the map but I think Luibconich must be the one on the old six-inch map called Lubachoinnich http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.9207&lon=-4.6768&layers=5&b=1 which is a few miles up the glen from Croick Church. See also http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH4195.
As for Craggan, I think this could be it http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2045330 and http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.9411&lon=-4.8062&layers=6&b=1 - I think this is in the parish of Kincardine, but I can't check that for certain as I don't have all my one-inch paper maps to hand. What were the names of any other places on the same page in the original census?
Re that 1871 census. Which parish is it in? It's impossible to overstate the importance of knowing the name of the parish, because all the pre-1855 records, and most of the records in the rest of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century were collected by parish. If Dalfaid is in the parish of Creich, this could be it http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=58.0911&lon=-4.7196&layers=6&b=1 and http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NC3914
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The Census record is a transcription only - original image not available.
There are no images of any Scottish census records online (unless someone has uploaded any to sites), they have to be purchased at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Well aware of non availability of original images of Scottish Census records other than via scotlands.people.
Others may not be aware i.e. a general statement ;)
Annie
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Looking at Craggan as identified by Forfarian,it is not very far from Corriemulzie Lodge.Perhaps the 1841 address is from that area.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/91549075 (right hand side of map near 95 and 98)
Regards
Roger
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Scottish maps
http://maps.nls.uk/view/76343614
There's "Craggan" bottom right hand corner of map - just west of "Garbad Wood"
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Scottish maps
http://maps.nls.uk/view/76343614
There's "Craggan" bottom right hand corner of map - just west of "Garbad Wood"
Is that one not in the parish of Edderton rather than in Kincardine?
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Unfortunately, I don't have access to the original 1861 census images to "walk" the area and confirm the location by picking out dwellings listed on the same sheet/adjoining sheets and identifying them also on the map.
Not sure how access to SP census images works but is it possible to view the census sheet and and those either side to identify entries in the same locale?
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Looking at Craggan as identified by Forfarian,it is not very far from Corriemulzie Lodge.Perhaps the 1841 address is from that area.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/91549075 (right hand side of map near 95 and 98)
Ah, thank you, that's one of the maps I would have looked at if I had had my paper maps to hand.
I think you are right. If you carry on upriver from Craggan, past Corriemulzie Lodge, you eventually arrive at Loch a' Choire Mhòir, where there is .... Coiremor Bothy!
Just south of Duag Bridge is a feature marked as Druim a' Bhathaich which could be anglicised as Drumvatich, though as pronounced in Gaelic Drumvaich would be closer.
So we now have locations for all of the places named in the 1841 census enumeration district:
Corimore at NH305887 - photo at http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/782636
Corriemuillie at NH323951 - photo of area at http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1343518
Drumvatich at NH332971 - view from it at http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1343455
Luibconich and Croick Manse as previously discussed
And Craggan at NH341980 is just a mile north of Drumvatich.
To see where any of these are just type the map references (NH......) into the 'Gazetteer/NG Ref' box on the top left at http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=6&lat=57.2056&lon=-2.5489&layers=6&b=1
Looking at the OS Sheets 20 and 21 together, it looks like a long and weary trek from Craggan to Croick via Luibconich. I find it difficult to understand why Corimore, Corriemuillie and Drumvatich were listed in the census with Luibconich and Croick, because the first three are much closer to Strath Oykell than to Strath Carron.
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Not sure how access to SP census images works but is it possible to view the census sheet and and those either side to identify entries in the same locale?
Yes, but it costs 6 credits to view each page.
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Thank for Corriemore FF, great place, stayed at the bothy & had a wee row on the loch, then over the pass to Glenbeg! Happy days! ;D
Skoosh.
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Hi! Thank ou so much for your help in locating the church in Alness. I will certainly try to visit it when I visit Scotland. May I ask advice on the church at Oykell. I see one at Oykell bridge - my great grandparents were married in Oykell in 1862.Their certificate shows they were married in the Scottish Free Church....would Glens Church have been the only one in or around oykell at that time?
Many thanks for your assistance.....I'm new to Ancestry and find so much to learn!!!!
Annie ???
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Hello! I am very new to ancestry, and asked for help with Craggan......thank you! but would love help in locating Inchnascallag where my great grandmother Grace Ross was in 1861census. Cannot find it! It was In the district and parish of Kincardine, Ross and Cromarty. She was a servant.
So much to learn and so much to distract me!
Cheerio. Annie.
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May I ask advice on the church at Oykell. I see one at Oykell bridge - my great grandparents were married in Oykell in 1862.Their certificate shows they were married in the Scottish Free Church....would Glens Church have been the only one in or around oykell at that time?
Look carefully at the certificate again. They were probably married according to the forms of the Free Church of Scotland, but it's unlikely that they were married in the church building itself. Until towards the end of the 19th century, most wedding ceremonies were held in the bride's parents' home, or, if she had no parents or was married a long way from home, in the manse or in her employer's home.
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Hello! I am very new to ancestry, and asked for help with Craggan......thank you! but would love help in locating Inchnascallag where my great grandmother Grace Ross was in 1861 census.
What were the other places on the same page of the census?
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I think I have got it.
In the 1841 census it's in ED 9, and it's listed between Inchnabeirag and Lubcroy. Inchnabeirag will be Innisnabiorach which is a mile or so west of Oykell Bridge.
See http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2531002
Another few hundred yards west is a habitable cottage
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1446776
which is shown on the second edition six-inch map as a school, but isn't marked on the first edition at all
A few more hundred yards west again is a ruin
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3444273
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2632465
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4435861
And a few more hundred yards again is Lubcroy
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/433391
The burn that enters the River Oykell just upstream of the ruin
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/453232
is named on the first edition six-inch map as flowing through land named Innis an Scalaig.
So I think that Inchnascallag is probably that ruin.
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Thank you so much! Inchnascallag exists! We're coming to Scotland shortly, so now I know to head west of Oykel Bridge, about 1.5 m w- the old ruin- east of Lubcroy. Thank you!
However, I thought I had located my grandfathers birthplace at Brackloch, district of Kirk...?....hard to decipher...Cipyats????? County Sutherland. I have the original birth certificate ( 1863). The 1871 census has himborn in Assynt, Sutherland where I see Brackloch.....a fair distance from Oykell where his parents were married in 1862.
May I ask if travelling that distance- Oykel to Brackloch to Dalfaid would have been likely? I know his father William was a shepherd, but were the 1860s so chaotic?
My research has his family in Dalfaid in district Rosehall ED2 , Craggan, Achness, Alness and Ardgay.
Cheerio and thanks for your assistance. Annie.....my research skills are elementary! :( :-\ :-\
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Can you post the relevant image here so we can take a look at it?
Unfortunately Brackloch is another of those place names that crops up in various places, so we really need to know the parish to find the place. (I promise you it isn't Cipyats!) Though if the census says he was born in the parish of Assynt, that Brackloch by the River Inver looks right.
The birth index on SP says that Thomas Graham's birth was registered in Kirkton Assynt in the County of Sutherland*. Kirkton is probably the commonest place name in Scotland, because it just means the cluster of houses round the kirk, and of course every parish has a kirk so every parish has a kirkton.
*The following is completely off-topic but might possibly be of interest if you are going to Assynt (which I would definitely recommend). You will be amazed by the scenery, which is of course largely dictated by the underlying geology, and in fact Assynt is one of the world's greatest and most significant geological localities. The working out of the extreme complications of the geology of Assynt is largely credited to two men named Ben Peach and John Horne. Their work had major importance for the development of the knowledge of geology, and Assynt remains a mecca for geologists from all over the world who come to study the area. The reason I mention this is because Peach's second wife was the daughter of the schoolmaster at Kirkton Assynt. She was born in Kirkton Assynt in 1868. So if your grandfather had stayed long enough at Brackloch, he would probably have been taught by her father Angus MacEwen, who, incidentally, was also the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages for Kirkton Assynt.
It's a fair hike from Brackloch to any of the other places you have mentioned, but I reckon that the other places are all within a good day's walk of one another. People did move around quite a bit by the 1860s, especially shepherds because when the Clearances took place to make way for sheep, the landlords often brought shepherds in from outside the immediate area.
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Thank you so much for your reply. It makes sense that William would have been working as some sort of farm worker before his marriage. I'm going to try to find Craggan, west of Everton when I am visiting Scotland next year. Any hints on finding it would be great!!! There may be something still to see! Thank you and cheers. Annie. ???
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Hello again! You have answered it! I was having difficulty resizing the image on my iPad to send. Your email displayed in full. On reading your "irrelevant" notes on Assynt, the names match! The registrar's signature on the extract (6 Oct 1863)is Angus McEwen, so that fits. As well, the first word is definitely Kirkton, so perhaps little Thomas was taught by him, although by the time he was 7, they were living at Dalfaid.
Thank you again for your assistance - now we intend to spend time in Assynt as well as Brackloch by the river Inver. There may be an old crofters cottage!!!I know already we are going to run out of time!!
A piece of the jigsaw that fits.......thank you.
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Glad to help .... bring on the next one!
This might be of interest http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10625927
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Is this Evanton Annie, parish of Kiltearn, Ross-shire? so possibly Culcairn?
Skoosh.
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Hello again, I have been looking for the birth records of Grizzel/ Grizel/ Grisel Mcleod who I think was born in Assynt, Parish 44, reference 10 6 on 30/3/1799. Father Forquar 'McLeod, mother Rachel, but I cannot locate where that may be. Is it possible to get some help on this please ? ::)
I found another entry for a Grace Mcleod 12/6/1803 father DonaldMcleod, mother JeanStronach in parish 168/b reference 50 127 in Old Machar, but I don't know if that is a possibility. Are there clues?
Thank you, Annie.
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Grace McLeod or Graham, aged 76, died in Strathoykel in 1878. If you get her death certificate on Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.go.uk it should tell you the full names of both her parents including her mother's maiden name.
You have been given a transcription of her listing in the 1861 census, which says that she was born in Lochbroom, Ross and Cromarty. If this is correct she cannot be either of the ones you have found; there are lots of people whose births/baptisms were never recorded or, if they were, the record has not survived.
You don't say where in Assynt the daughter of Torquil* MacLeod and Rachel was born, so I can't look for the place.
*I don't know which transcription you are using, but the index at Scotland's People and the IGI at FamilySearch both have it as Forquil. Forquil is not a name I have ever come across, but Torquil, though quite rare overall, is relatively most prevalent among MacLeods, especially in Lewis. (There are 338 Torquils in the statutory birth records, of whom 98 (29%) are Macleods.)
St Machar is in Aberdeen, quite a distance from Assynt.
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Just found a previous thread with the same question
Threads merged.
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BTW I see that Thomas Graham, aged 63, died in the parish of Kincardine and Croick in 1855. If you have not already got this certificate, go for it. An 1855 certificate is a gold mine of information, because in 1855 details were collected that were not collected in any other year. These include parents' names, place of birth, and names and ages of any children, both living and deceased.
According to the index at SP Thomas Graham and Grizel MacLeod had
William, baptised 12 February 1827
Thomas, baptised 14 September 1829
Grizel, baptised 27 July 1831
Donald, baptised 25 May 1832
Robert, baptised 19 June 1835
Isabella, baptised 12 February 1837
Ann, baptised 13 June 1839
Catherine, baptised 12 August 1841
all in the parish of Kincardine and Croick.
However the 1851 census lists children not in the register of baptisms. Again using only the index on SP, the Graham household includes Thomas, 57; Grace, 50; Alexander, 28; Eliza, 26; William, 22; Thomas, 20; Robert, 14; Isabella, 12; Ann, 10; and Catherine, 8.
Looking for Alexander in 1841, I note with interest that in 1841 the household at Corriemore consisted of John Graham, 20, shepherd, and Alexander Graham, 17. Is this Thomas and Grizel's son? Could John be another son of Thomas and Grizel?
In 1841 the household at Corriemuillie includes all the children from Elizabeth to Ann, two possible servants and Elizabeth Graham, 80. I speculate that Elizabeth is Thomas' mother. You can look up the full transcription at https://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl. Note that Grizel is recorded as Grace Macleod. This is not in any way significant, because married women in Scotland do not lose their own maiden surname on marriage, and it was not unusual for them to be referred to by their own name rather than by their husband's surname.
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Macleod of Lewis, the Siol Thorcaill, (Seed of Torquill) also had branches in Raasay & Assynt, hence the incidence of the name.
Skoosh.
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On the '51 Census Thomas is aged 57, occpn. shepherd and Grace, age 50 - address is Craggan, Kincardie, Ross and Cromarty - with 8 children.
In which parish does the 1851 census say that Thomas Graham was born? The SP index doesn't say at all, of course, and the index on FamilySearch just says Sutherland.
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HI again, thank you for your last notes. AGain so helpful. Yes, you were right, the names fit and the 1855 death register was most helpful. It listed Thomas and 12 children including John, a son born in October 1819...premarital fornication was the notation on OPR births. poor soul! Also, Ann was listed as a pauper- her death is listed just after Thomas'.
Again, yes, Elizabeth/ Eliza/ Elspet was Thomas' mother.
Interesting too, because the register showed Thomas had lived at Craggan and buried at Knockan( bit hard to read). I had placed Craggan near Edderton, but that doesn't match well. I'd love to visit these places when I visit, just to see where they'd lived or died. Corriemore, Corriemiullie, both 1841 ( same place, maybe?), Craggan, Strathoykel etc.Merging topics was something I had not known about, so thank you. Annie.
,
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Corriemor was a house (now a very good bothy, half maintained by the Mountain Bothies Association & the other half maintained by the RAF as a memorial)) on the Corriemulzie estate, Sutherland, (pronounced Corriemoilie). Careful though, there's a different Corriemulzie estate in Aberdeenshire.
Here's a trip into Corriemor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9VQ4HPB4Ao
The guy's a bit of a drip! ;D
Skoosh.
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I'm going to try to find Craggan, west of Everton when I am visiting Scotland next year. Any hints on finding it would be great!!!
There is more than a hint already there in a previous message in this thread
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2045330