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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: originQuest on Monday 28 March 16 16:57 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
I think this is my gg grandfather, Henry 'Harry' Wood (1889-1953), on the
11006-ADH000929977-FILE-2197386-NULL-WOOD H-NULL-RE-1892-03-28
I have a birth certificate for him from 28 March 1889 - so seems at some point he lied about this age. His wife Jane died in 1940, and he was described as a Corporal in the RE.
Due to his very common name, I've not been able to find a medal card for his WW1 service - would this document help locating one?
Best wishes!
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hi
can you give us his place of birth please .
regards
trevor
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Also how do you know he served in WW1?
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Did he appear on the 1939 register with Jane :-\
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11006-ADH000929977-FILE-2197386-NULL-WOOD H-NULL-RE-1892-03-28
Where does this come from? Could 2197386 be his army number? The RE had numbers in this block.
Ken
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Hi again, just seen these posts. Henry/Harry was born in Middlesbrough and yes, he and Jane are on the 1939 Register at their home, 16 Severs Street, Middlesbrough.
I know Harry fought in WW1 from stories of my granddad and and his nephews and I also have a picture of him from WW1 .. The hat badge isn't clear though and I'm having difficulty uploading here.
Ken the info I gave came from the indexed names of soldiers born before 1901 who fought after 1920. Yes I believe the number you mention is his record number.
Best wishes,
Peter
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Just found Jane's death certificate from 1940 ... She is described as the wife of Harry Wood, 2197386 Cpl. Royal.Engineers (Stevedore).
I know he was away at war for both Jane's death and her funeral.
Thank you,
Peter
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As you have his army number you can apply for his service record. There is information on this section telling you how. It does cost £30 though.
Ken
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Thanks Ken but as I asked, could this lead to finding his WW1 records /medal card?
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We need to have a look at the picture.
Ideally a high res. scan of just the cap.
Rules:
the file has to be under 500Kb.
the file name has to be unique.
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The MOD record should include a copy of any WW1 service. But nothing can be guaranteed. It will help with finding his WW1 medal card if it has his pre 1920s regimental number. The MIC card itself will not be with the record.
Ken
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Thank you for that Ken. Hmmm fingers crossed. Also Jim, I'll try and get a rescan. The original is in Australia but we shall see.
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It has taken some time but hopefully this will help with the ID for the regiment.
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Definitely RE.
There are 6 MIC's for Henry Wood RE. Several more with a middle initial & a lot more who served in other Regt's. before joining the RE totalling over 20.
As Ken said you need his post war service record as that's the only service no. you have or you need to find him on the 1918/19 Absent Voter's list for where he was living at the time which will give his WW1 service no.
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Hi there - I might have made some progress with this. A friend of mine has looked up the Middlesbrough Absent Voters' Register and found this entry which seems to fit.
Henry Wood, Spr. 472096 R.E., living at 3 Allendale Terrace ... the address is a bit of a Red Herring, as I've never heard of it before and didn't expect my relative to be living there.
However, the other Henry/Harry Woods living in Middlesbrough show one in the ASC, one on HMS Idaho, one on HMS Attentive II, one in the RFA and one as a corporal in the 10th Duke of Wellingtons.
Can we find a bit more out about him now from this?
I also recall my grandfather saying his grandfather, Harry Wood served in the artillery on the big guns if that helps? Another story says how he was once tied to a gun wheel for a misdemeanor.
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he was once tied to a gun wheel for a misdemeanor.
known as a Field punishment.
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This Henry Wood was:
57892 Northumberland Fusiliers
(T) 169 RE ( pre war Territorial)
472096 RE
Received the BW & V Medals with the RE
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Hmmm this chap's records survive and I don't think he is the chap I'm looking for.
First, he was born 1896, and mine was born 1889. Also, his parents are described as Joseph and Mary Ann, where as my ancestor's parents are Nathaniel and Annie ... close but not quite right. Also, this chap's records show him to be 5'4" whereas my ancestor was 'a big six foot docker' in later life, according to my granddad. Of course, people do make mistakes but my relative was well known into the 1950s when he died.
Hmmm I think we can discount those working on ships which leaves:
Harold Wood, T.4/160189 Dvr A.S.C. of 13 Atlas Street
Harry Wood, 11803 Cpl 10 Duke of Wellingtons of 76 Essex Street
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So Harry Wood 11803 Duke of Wellington's service records survive too and he was 1897, and 5'6 and his step father is a Fred Merry so it doesn't seem to fit either!
Any ideas where I am going wrong?
There are some other Woods on the Absent Voters' Register with the middle name Henry/Harry but hardly seem likely to be one of them?
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Just found Jane's death certificate from 1940 ... She is described as the wife of Harry Wood, 2197386 Cpl. Royal.Engineers (Stevedore
Maybe you should get his service record as it may have his WW1 record attached.
What were the stories you heard about his WW1 exploits.
I'm wondering as he was a docker he may have been in the Special Reserve.
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Other stories include that he threw his great coat from a train as it was too heavy to carry ha.
Still odd that he doesn't seem to be in Middlesbrough.
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What I'm wondering is that he was in the UK at one of the docks.
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My granddad said he was a gunner in the Artillery but I've found nothing on that and my granddad's statement also contradicts the photograph, which we're very confident is Harry Wood, and that shows is cap badge to the RE?
That would make sense with him being in the RE in WW2.
Does this help?
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He could have been in the Inland Waterways & Docks in the UK.
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You need to bite the bullet and donate £30 to the MOD.
Ken
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That is on a very long list of things to do but I work abroad so seems a bit more difficult to order from the MOD.
Regardless, I'm still a bit concerned why he isn't on the Absent Voters List.
I'll keep this post updated.
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I believe that the only 'problem' with orderng from the MOD is they need a cheque and a few people nowadays don't have cheque books.
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Yes generally speaking but I also have to get copies of the death certificate which are in England and not so easy for me to do so until I'm able to get them.
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I don't know if I have missed it somewhere in this post but the birth registration & death have a middle name - T / Thomas
Birth Mar qtr 1889
Henry Thomas Wood
Middlesbro' 9d 566
Death Dec qtr 1953
Henry T Wood
age 65
Middlesbro' 1b 663
Have you looked at this Medal Index card :-\
Henry T Wood
Service number 91083
Rank -Gunner
Royal Garrison Artillery
Archive reference WO372/22
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5977294
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Thank you Rosie but that isn't him. My ancestor was born Henry Langburn Wood in Mar 1889. He married as Henry Wood in 1909 but was always known in the family as Harry and died with that name in 1953.
He dropped the name Langburn before his marriage after an argument with his brother who dropped the name Wood.
It can get confusing can't it?
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Thank you for the extra information, saves me looking at the wrong person :)
He was still using the middle initial when he completed the last census form.
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Oh thank you Rosie ... I didn't realise that. I suppose I'd normally include that info but for some reason here I didn't.
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Hi there,
The records from the MOD for HENRY LANGBURN WOOD arrived today. It includes both his services in WW2, and his time in WW1. I'm thrilled.
Regiment Number 50811 who enlisted on 15th September 1914. He arrived in France on 8th July 1915 with the 15th Sig Coy (Stamp marked). But then a handwritten note with the the 15th Signal Co is later crossed out and R.E. is next to it.
Does this seem to fit with the photograph I uploaded earlier in the thread?
Thank you
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It seems he was attested at Middlesbrough on the 15th September 1914 as a driver in the RE.
He was transferred to the 15th Sig Co on 31st October 1914.
He was 'Home British' from 15.9.1914 - 6.7.1915
Then Br Ex Force from 7.7.1915 - 7.8.1918
Then Home from 8.8.1918
He was wounded with gas on 3.8.1918
His next of kin is his wife of 34 Victoria Street, but this is crossed out to 16 Severs Street Off Newport Rpad, Middlesbrough (this is address my family knew him at).
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From what you post, we can say:
The note about RE is an addition rather than a correction. The Royal Engineers (and the cap badge at the beginning of the thread is RE) were responsible in WW1 for communications. 15 Sigs Coy was the RE Signals Company of 15th (Scottish) Division who went to France in July 1915 (fits with his overseas date).
There are a number of war diaries for the company http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=%2815%20AND%20divisional%20AND%20signals%29%20AND&_or1=france&_or2=belgium&_dss=range&_ro=any&_p=1900&_st=adv (the first five on this page) each of which can be downloaded.
His service earned him the 1914/1915 Star, the British War and Victory Medals. Left the army finally on 4 March 1919.
Reading matter:
Outline history of 15 Div http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/15th-scottish-division/
RE Sigs companies http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/the-great-war/great-war-on-land/britain-allies/359-re-sigs.html#sthash.8XsefDso.dpbs
More possibly if you are able to post his record. but see my PM
MaxD
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Thank you Max, that explains a lot. Here is his WW1 medal card:
Harry L Wood
in the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
View
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:
Harry L Wood
Regiment or Corps:
Royal Engineers
Regimental Number:
50811
Other Records:
Search for 'Harry L Wood' in other WWI collections
I'm going to have a look through the war diaries. Would be great to get an idea of where he physically was and what he was actually doing there.
Thank you
PS did your PM not send?
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No I didn't send the PM. The following will help answer the questions:
Yes the company had many horses as well as vehicles including motor cycles. As he has two offences relating to horses I would say he worked with them almost all the time.
For info of others. Originquest was unable to post scans of Harry's records so I looked at them via email. Here is my "translation":
Images 003 to 005 record his misdemeanours prior to deployment to France.
Image 003 (at Bulford two miles away from me!) 3 days Confined to Barracks for disturbing the peace of the barrack block at night - fined 2 days pay.
Image 004 overstays a pass home, 14 days CB and 1 days pay fine.
Image 005 links with 004. On the date in question he was still on his 14 Days CB from the absence and would have to parade at the guardroom a certain number of times a day. Late for the 5 30 am parade, ticked off.
001 records him joining in Sep 14, as a volunteer, and confirms his unit and arrival with them in France on 8 July 1915. Between the two dates he would have been in training, the conduct sheet entries have Bulford and Marlborough at different times.
It shows two short hospital stays and two offences. Drunk in charge of a horse for which he gets 28 days Field Punishment No 1 in close arrest. Field Punishment Number 1 consisted of the convicted man being shackled in irons and secured to a fixed object, often a gun wheel or similar. He could only be thus fixed for up to 2 hours in 24, and not for more than 3 days in 4, or for more than 21 days in his sentence. This punishment was often known as 'crucifixion' and due to its humiliating nature was viewed by many Tommies as unfair.
He is later convicted of missing the 6 30 am stables parade and awarded 2 days confined to camp.
The 1918 entry was made at Crowborough at the end of the war and is his medical category A3 which meant a man back from the BEF fit but who would need a bit of conditioning if called upon to fight again.
004 is self- explanatory I think. Another absence, a spell on leave to UK, a spell in hospital then a spell related to gas*, first in the local FA, Field Ambulance, then to No 6 General Hospital in France from which he goes to UK by 7 Aug 18. The next entry is him going to the dispersal centre for discharge in Mar 19. However, the November 1918 entry at Crowborough when he is pronounced A3 suggests he was discharged already so it is unlikely that he was in hospital all that time, there is no exit date from hospital.
*The dates of the gas incident are I think a bit misleading. The record seems to be saying that it is on 3 August. The company diary is very good with detail and there is nothing in the diary that day and on 3 August 45 Field Ambulance was actually moving. It also seem unlikely that he would be in a forward FA on 3rd Aug and have passed through 6 General Hospital and on the way to UK by 7th Aug. Far more likely is that he was one of the 21 wounded by gas during a shelling and gas attack on 26 July. They were obviously out of action as the diary records their work being taken over by other people and later, in early August, reinforcements coming to the company to replace them. The attack took place in the vicinity of Missy-au-Bois, to the south west of Soissons. The Division were under the command of the French Corps at the time as were American troops. This is well worth reading:
http://batmarn2.free.fr/15thdivi.htm
and a Youtube to show what the area looked like then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej_ZcF5dNEM
Are there any other sheets?
MaxD
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Hi Max,
Your help is greatly appreciated.
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Next page
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Thank you Max for you invaluable help - it is, as ever, appreciated.
There is a story that Harry was tied to a gun wheel and was cut down by some Australian soldiers, so that fits perfectly with what you interpreted. Thank you.
Wow, again a lot to take in. Here are the other sheets you mentioned.
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There are other sheets, but they don't seem to add any new information and seems to be repeated information from the sheets shown here.
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Nothing to add directly from his record. The war diaries which you have a link to are pretty good as to locations of the centre of effort and could, with a great deal of time and reference to other unit diaries, be used to follow the progress of 15 Div as seen from the Sigs Company point of view. Interesting to note that, as with the July/August 1918 battles, when the divison was withdrawn into rest for short periods, there was no rest for the signallers (and others) who had to keep on keeping on!
Interesting one.
MaxD
PS In my earlier post the sentence about Crowborough "when he is pronounced A3 suggests he was discharged already" meant discharged from hospital
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Very interesting and the diary is absorbing - will have a good look and thank you again Max!